Interesting Coincidence about the Colorado Shooter’s School

[Glass Cowcatcher]

The [link=http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/07/20/interesting-coincidence-about-the-colorado-shooters-high-school/]Friendly Atheist[/link]did some digging.

In a nutshell, the public high school that the shooter had attended had been profiled on the site recently. They were involved in a controversy involving a math teacher that had had, for decades, religious banners hung on the school walls.

I wonder if Rep. Gohmert knows about this? :roll: God was apparently pretty well well represented in the shooter's school, and other articles have described him has actively involved with his church.

[tabitha2]

That describes millions of Christians.Until official news reports say different,He is sick, deranged individual with likely mental problems who would have been the same if he was an Atheist or Jew or Osiris worshipper in my mind.

[bananacat]

Ugh, do we really have to go through this again? No, evil people aren't evil because of mental illness. Some people are just bad people. He may or may not have a mental illness, but it's not why he committed this massacre. Remember that people with mental illness are actually more likely to be the VICTIM of violence. Stop trying to pin all of this horror on mentally ill people.

[snarkbillie]

Ugh, do we really have to go through this again? No, evil people aren't evil because of mental illness. Some people are just bad people. He may or may not have a mental illness, but it's not why he committed this massacre. Remember that people with mental illness are actually more likely to be the VICTIM of violence. Stop trying to pin all of this horror on mentally ill people.

I wish I could "like" all your posts. This one especially.

[tabitha2]

Mentally ill or people of a certain religion.

[emmiedahl]

When someone tells others that he believes he is the Joker and then perpetrates a crime that is right out of a Batman comic at a Batman movie, I think perhaps he is mentally ill and that this contributed to his crime. This is not to say that the mentally ill are a uniformly dangerous population. I don't think we should shut down all discussion of the fact that society is safer when mental illness screening and treatment are available.

[pixydust]

Ugh, do we really have to go through this again? No, evil people aren't evil because of mental illness. Some people are just bad people. He may or may not have a mental illness, but it's not why he committed this massacre. Remember that people with mental illness are actually more likely to be the VICTIM of violence. Stop trying to pin all of this horror on mentally ill people.

I'm really curious about this. What are we considering mental illness? Schizophrenia? My sister has it, and while she isn't violent, she is verbally abusive and no one is abusive to her. Bi-polar? That's my ex-husband, and he was the one doing the hitting and choking, not just to me, but to at least 2 other women.

Not all mentally ill people are violent or abusive, but to act like it has nothing to do with violence isn't the answer either.

[thoughtful]

I read Glass Cowcatcher's post as having nothing to do with any connection between the shooter and religion, or his religion causing what he did.

Rather, I saw it as another way of pointing out that Gohmert is full of crap in assuming that some lack of Stuff About God in the public schools was the cause of this tragedy.

GC, correct me if I'm wrong.

I made a similar point on the other thread, in mentioning that the shooter had been described as being active in his church.

We still don't know what drove this young man - we may never know.

But I think many of us can agree that Gohmert's theory is bullshit.

[tabitha2]

according to Wiki-

Background

Alleged shooter James Eagan Holmes, age 24, was born December 13, 1987, in San Diego, California.[27] Holmes was raised in San Diego, California.[39][21] He graduated from Westview High School in the Torrey Highlands community of San Diego in 2006, where he played soccer and ran cross-country before going to college.[40][41] He obtained an undergraduate degree with highest honors[42][43] in neuroscience from the University of California, Riverside in 2010.[44] Holmes was a member of several honor societies, including Phi Beta Kappa and Golden Key.[45] Holmes enrolled as a Ph.D. student in neuroscience at the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus in Aurora. In 2012, his academic performance and test scores declined,[28] and Holmes was in the process of withdrawing from the university.[46] He had no prior criminal record.[30] Holmes is the son of a nurse, Arlene, and a software company manager, Robert, and has a younger sister. His family was active in a local Presbyterian church, according to a neighbor.[47][48]

On the basis of this,It makes me wonder more how such a bright person with the brightest of futures went so wrong...

[Sprocket]

I read Glass Cowcatcher's post as having nothing to do with any connection between the shooter and religion, or his religion causing what he did.

Rather, I saw it as another way of pointing out that Gohmert is full of crap in assuming that some lack of Stuff About God in the public schools was the cause of this tragedy.

GC, correct me if I'm wrong.

I made a similar point on the other thread, in mentioning that the shooter had been described as being active in his church.

We still don't know what drove this young man - we may never know.

But I think many of us can agree that Gohmert's theory is bullshit.

That's how I read it too. Seriously, has this asshat issued an apology yet? Anyone.... anyone? Bueller?

[snarkbillie]

I'm really curious about this. What are we considering mental illness? Schizophrenia? My sister has it, and while she isn't violent, she is verbally abusive and no one is abusive to her. Bi-polar? That's my ex-husband, and he was the one doing the hitting and choking, not just to me, but to at least 2 other women.

Not all mentally ill people are violent or abusive, but to act like it has nothing to do with violence isn't the answer either.

I think being like "he's obviously mentally ill" is often a way of marginalizing and stigmatizing mental illness. While mental illness absolutely can contribute to things like this, assuming that it does without evidence is just wrong. Most people with mental illness are not abusive or violent. That doesn't mean they can't be, but it also doesn't mean that every abusive or violent person is automatically mentally ill either.

[DomWackTroll]

It's driving me nuts how they keep saying "local Presbyterian church" but will not name the church. I'm dying to know which denomination.

[tabitha2]

Presbyterian is a denomination.

[devilsadvocate]

When someone tells others that he believes he is the Joker and then perpetrates a crime that is right out of a Batman comic at a Batman movie, I think perhaps he is mentally ill and that this contributed to his crime. This is not to say that the mentally ill are a uniformly dangerous population. I don't think we should shut down all discussion of the fact that society is safer when mental illness screening and treatment are available.

Good post. :clap: Not all (or even most) mentally ill people are violent, but sometimes mental illness does cause people to act out irrationally nad violently.

[pixydust]

I think being like "he's obviously mentally ill" is often a way of marginalizing and stigmatizing mental illness. While mental illness absolutely can contribute to things like this, assuming that it does without evidence is just wrong. Most people with mental illness are not abusive or violent. That doesn't mean they can't be, but it also doesn't mean that every abusive or violent person is automatically mentally ill either.

ok, thanks Snarkbillie. I get it. No we shouldn't assume that someone who is violent is mentally ill based just on that. However, I agree with Emmie, someone who thinks that he is the Joker and then shoots up a showing of a Batman movie probably isn't mentally stable.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I read Glass Cowcatcher's post as having nothing to do with any connection between the shooter and religion, or his religion causing what he did.

Rather, I saw it as another way of pointing out that Gohmert is full of crap in assuming that some lack of Stuff About God in the public schools was the cause of this tragedy.

GC, correct me if I'm wrong.

I made a similar point on the other thread, in mentioning that the shooter had been described as being active in his church.

We still don't know what drove this young man - we may never know.

But I think many of us can agree that Gohmert's theory is bullshit.

That's correct.

I posted it because, while information about the shooter is still in extremely short supply, what we do have seems to indicate that he was well exposed to Christian morality.

[DomWackTroll]

Presbyterian is a denomination.

Yes, but it is a denomination that has been splintering into sub-denominations for a very long time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:P ... th_America

Sorry if I was not clear.

[snarkbillie]

ok, thanks Snarkbillie. I get it. No we shouldn't assume that someone who is violent is mentally ill based just on that. However, I agree with Emmie, someone who thinks that he is the Joker and then shoots up a showing of a Batman movie probably isn't mentally stable.

I'm not sure if he thinks he's Joker or just said he is. There's a nuance there. Also, I don't think he just "snapped" or anything since he methodically did all of this, from purchasing the guns and ammo to booby trapping his apartment. I'm not really sure anyone is mentally stable anyway though, so there's that.

[emmiedahl]

When someone does something horrific with no predisposing factors or even a small benefit to themselves, I definitely wonder about mental illness. There was no reason for this. He was not a violent person, he has lost a lot and gained nothing in this crime and never stood to gain anything. There was no sneakiness or guile. And it certainly was not a sudden impulse; the planning was incredibly well-thought-out.

Perhaps because I have known schizophrenics, this makes me think schizophrenia. Especially when combined with the fact that he was acting erratically and making poor decisions in the few weeks preceding this. It is one thing to say the mentally ill are violent and a completely different thing to say that certain types of mental illness can contribute to violence.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

When someone does something horrific with no predisposing factors or even a small benefit to themselves, I definitely wonder about mental illness. There was no reason for this. He was not a violent person, he has lost a lot and gained nothing in this crime and never stood to gain anything. There was no sneakiness or guile. And it certainly was not a sudden impulse; the planning was incredibly well-thought-out.

Perhaps because I have known schizophrenics, this makes me think schizophrenia. Especially when combined with the fact that he was acting erratically and making poor decisions in the few weeks preceding this. It is one thing to say the mentally ill are violent and a completely different thing to say that certain types of mental illness can contribute to violence.

All that plus his age, and the fact that he was a star student who then rather quickly (over the course of that first year) fell down in his studies to the point of dropping out, and seemed to be actually struggling rather than a "partied and flunked out" scenario. Apparently it's not all that uncommon in colleges simply due to random odds and the age of the student population (though luckily the vast vast majority of people come to attention and get things more or less managed and back on track without anything horrible like this happening).

He's alive and in custody, so this time we might actually find out.

[notsocommon]

When someone tells others that he believes he is the Joker and then perpetrates a crime that is right out of a Batman comic at a Batman movie, I think perhaps he is mentally ill and that this contributed to his crime. This is not to say that the mentally ill are a uniformly dangerous population. I don't think we should shut down all discussion of the fact that society is safer when mental illness screening and treatment are available.

this

[notsocommon]

When someone tells others that he believes he is the Joker and then perpetrates a crime that is right out of a Batman comic at a Batman movie, I think perhaps he is mentally ill and that this contributed to his crime. This is not to say that the mentally ill are a uniformly dangerous population. I don't think we should shut down all discussion of the fact that society is safer when mental illness screening and treatment are available.

this

[deelaem]

this

And yet, the majority of violent crimes are committed by people who do not meet the criteria for mental illness. How do we "get safer" from that?

[FaustianSlip]

That describes millions of Christians.

It's entirely possible to be very religious and/or active in your church and still be completely irrational, to the point of killing someone. Look at the guy who murdered Dr. Tiller. Whatever else I might say about him, I wouldn't deny that he was religiously devout. He was also obsessed and delusional.

Either way, this misses the point, namely that that douchebag Congressman Gohmert took to the airwaves immediately following this tragedy saying that if only Americans had more prayer in schools and weren't so darn mean to God, if we were just good Christians, well, this never would have happened. Looking at the actual life of the perpetrator, however, it becomes quite clear that in fact, he had a fair amount of exposure to religion in his life, and whatever caused him to go off the rails and do this thing, a lack of Jesus probably wasn't it.

[notsocommon]

And yet, the majority of violent crimes are committed by people who do not meet the criteria for mental illness. How do we "get safer" from that?

How often do you hear "I knew there was something 'off' about him/her" when someone commits a violent crime? This perp's own mother was not the least bit shocked by her son's behavior. That should say something!

It is very valid to discuss mental illness in situations like this. Stable people don't go around shooting up crowds of innocents. It does not degrade others with mental illness. Seriously, if there was better access to mental health services, society would be a LOT better. Not just in matters of crime, either.