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Doug Wilson + We got a mention


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From what it sounds like, his personal sex life is fucked up:

"If you think I’m exaggerating, please note that Nancy Wilson has written, under her husband’s oversight, that a heterosexually married woman’s body is a garden belonging to and tended by her husband, and that 'a husband can never trespass in his own garden.' "

Source: arewomenhuman.me/2012/07/18/doug-wilson-gospel-coalition-rape/

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From what it sounds like, his personal sex life is fucked up:

"If you think I’m exaggerating, please note that Nancy Wilson has written, under her husband’s oversight, that a heterosexually married woman’s body is a garden belonging to and tended by her husband, and that 'a husband can never trespass in his own garden.' "

Source: arewomenhuman.me/2012/07/18/doug-wilson-gospel-coalition-rape/

Fuck that noise. My garden belongs to me. And if I was so unfortunate as to be married to a man like Doug Wilson I'd be cultivating hemlock.

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Coercion should never be a part of the sexual act. You can't do BDSM without coercion.

I'm not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that BDSM requires coercion. Yes, it may happen in some cases, but ideally, it reflects the desires of all people involved and is a mutual decision.

I do realize that there are male "subs" and female doms, etc., but it is my opinion that those sex roles prevent real intimacy, because neither person is being their authentic self. I know I will get "killed in the comments" by BDSM people saying that I don't get it, I'm obviously vanilla, blah, blah. I really don't care. I dream of a world where sex is 100% consensual, and a person doesn't need to play a role or submit to dominance to give and receive pleasure.

I don't see why there is a problem as far as consent goes in role-playing and the like. Could you explain your thinking?

Also, why can't being a sub or a dom reflect a person's authentic sexuality? People do get pleasure from some things more than other- why not certain positions and roles?

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I'm not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that BDSM requires coercion. Yes, it may happen in some cases, but ideally, it reflects the desires of all people involved and is a mutual decision.

I don't see why there is a problem as far as consent goes in role-playing and the like. Could you explain your thinking?

Also, why can't being a sub or a dom reflect a person's authentic sexuality? People do get pleasure from some things more than other- why not certain positions and roles?

I seem to attract submissive men. I don't know how it is, because it never figured into my fantasies before I became sexually active, but as my partners asked me so politely, and explained how appealing they found me in a dominant position, I decided to give it a go and found I quite like it. Consensual role playing is just a bit of fun. It's like putting on a play with costumes and props and lines. It makes sex fun and funny. It's really no different to 'I'll be the countess and you can be the gamekeeper" - I would be interested to know, Deelaem, if you thought that women and men who liked the thrill of dressing in, say, historical costume during sex were being so terribly inauthentic. Or animal costumes?

I'm also interested in what you would have said in my place when my partners have shyly approached me with sexual requests. What would you say to a man who very sweetly confessed that his ultimate fantasy was you buggering him with a dildo? Or using him as footstool while wearing sharp heels? There are some things I wouldn't do, like bloodplay ( yuck), but I don't see what's wrong or coercive with accommodating a loving partner's fantasies, within reason, providing he's willing to do the same for you.

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From what it sounds like, his personal sex life is fucked up:

"If you think I’m exaggerating, please note that Nancy Wilson has written, under her husband’s oversight, that a heterosexually married woman’s body is a garden belonging to and tended by her husband, and that 'a husband can never trespass in his own garden.' "

Source: arewomenhuman.me/2012/07/18/doug-wilson-gospel-coalition-rape/

Wow...that is frightening. And completely destroys all the "we don't support rape" backtracking Jared/Doug Wilson are trying to do.

I can't even imagine how awful it would be to be married to this guy.

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and an apology of sorts:

thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/gospeldrivenchurch/2012/07/20/some-reflections-just-one-explanation-and-apologies/

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As an apology from a complementarian, Mark Driscoll wannabe goes, it wasn't bad. At least he acknowledged that he hurt people, and took some ownership.

Unrelated, but I just realized his church is in Vermont, of all places. I may need to attend a service for research purposes. We don't have too many Douglas Wilson fanboys in this part of the world.

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He's taken all the original posts down. I guess he doesn't realize the internet is forever, you can still read the articles from Google cache.

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Lots of fun fighting over this at the Bayly blog:

baylyblog.com/blog/2012/07/humble-stupid-does#comments

baylyblog.com/blog/2012/07/authority-and-submission-bedroom#comments

baylyblog.com/blog/2012/07/ms-rachel-held-evans-heretic#comments

Some guy named Brian told Kamilla, "While you're down there kissing Tim's arse, tickle his balls, too," but sadly, it was almost immediately deleted. Now he's posting about Stephen Sitler, Doug Wilson's pedophile pal.

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But why would you? And why would you ever use words of war and oppression to evoke your ideal sexual relationship?

When I climb into bed with my husband at the end of a long day with our kids and we can muster up the energy for some marriage bed funtime, it's just love. Love. Love, which is "patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant."

..."My beloved is mine, and I am his."

This responder hits the nail on the head, IMO.

That being said, I find some submission in the bedroom to be a big turn-on - but only with a partner who I trust not to violate the rules we have agreed on. Submission outside the bedroom - not so much.

Edited because I got distracted and didn't finish the thought.

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Here's what I think regarding sexuality of all kinds. Coercion should never be a part of the sexual act. You can't do BDSM without coercion. Traditional sex also often involves coercion. I, for one, can't even count how many times I had sex with my ex-husband because he bugged/guilted me so much about it that it was just easier to give in. I've also had sex because I knew it would gain me favor with the man I was currently with, because he always told me how much he wanted it. What I wanted was easily put in the background when it came to pleasing the man.

Okay, maybe I'm going to get jumped on for this, but, as an asexual, I guess I'm not seeing the difference between giving into sex for a personal advantage/shutting up a whiner and, say, any other task you may see as a unpleasant chore.

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Okay, maybe I'm going to get jumped on for this, but, as an asexual, I guess I'm not seeing the difference between giving into sex for a personal advantage/shutting up a whiner and, say, any other task you may see as a unpleasant chore.

Maybe because sex shouldn't be an unpleasant chore?

If it is, someone's doing something wrong.

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Okay, maybe I'm going to get jumped on for this, but, as an asexual, I guess I'm not seeing the difference between giving into sex for a personal advantage/shutting up a whiner and, say, any other task you may see as a unpleasant chore.

I'm not jumping on you because you are regular poster and I know you're not trolling. This is an analogy that comes up frequently, and especially when people are discussing prostitution (a topic which is only tangentially related so I won't go into it here). Sex shouldn't be viewed as a chore and it shouldn't be viewed as transactional. It's not analogous to cleaning a toilet or cooking dinner, which are things that some people enjoy but are still chores. Sex is more analogous to any other group activity and it's not something that one person performs for another. When I was a kid, I would beg and badger my brother into playing board games with me, and it's not perfect but it's a better analogy for whining someone into sex. It's not something that's supposed to work that way. It's more like a toddler whining for someone to play with them than an adult whining until someone vacuums the carpet, if that makes any sense.

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Okay, maybe I'm going to get jumped on for this, but, as an asexual, I guess I'm not seeing the difference between giving into sex for a personal advantage/shutting up a whiner and, say, any other task you may see as a unpleasant chore.

Some people can and do view sex as another chore, or as transactional, and are fine with it. It becomes a problem when people are expected to see sex that way, because sex is way more emotionally fraught than chores. Being even slightly coerced into sex can leave people with very bad feelings, and when there is a societal expectation that wives treat sex as a chore, it crosses the line into coercion in my opinion.

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Lissar: I cannot quote you, due to slowness, but I love you, because, yes, Doug: you're doing it wrong! What is it with Dougs being Tools?

My husband does not have rape fantasies, and never has, and he does not feel like a conquering hero when he invades my garden. If Doug was going to be in my garden, he'd find a big ol Penis Venus Flytrap. Vagina Dentata, indeed.

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See, that describes many asexual/sexual relationships. Some ace people are willing to have sex because they know it makes their partner happy. It's less "mowing the lawn" chore and more "attending the opera" chore. Despite what you might predict, the ones who most often have issues with this is the sexual partner, who feels they are taking advantage. But, if you're ace, you simply don't put the same value and weight on the act. It's just a thing. I just find it interesting, because it's so alien to me.

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