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A Homeschoolers Realizations about College...


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I think your average homeschooler has the upper hand in things like being able to get work done, working independently, and such things. All in all, I've observed that your average homeschooler is actually pretty driven and naturally inquisitive.

I think that is a generalization which could be disproven by just checking out some local schools. I know several students from public schools who have all those things that you claim homeschool students are better at, in addition to other activities such as holding part-time jobs, volunteering at food banks or the local nursing home, playing on school or community athletic teams, coaching children, singing in community choirs, as well as extra-curricular activities such as drama, choir, tutoring, leadership club, LGBT clubs, all while keeping up with excellent grades that result in a lot of scholarships. My daughter put herself through 6 years of university without any debt by a combination of scholarships and part-time jobs while she was studying, with no money from us*. Drive, and determination are part of a person's makeup and homeschooled students do not have an" upper hand" by virtue of being home-schooled. Of course not all public school students are like that, but then not all homeschooled students have the traits you listed. My proof? The Duggars.

*To be accurate, she did borrow $500 for a deposit on an apartment, but paid us back with her next paycheque.

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I'm tired of everyone claiming they have ADD just because they get bored and restless sometimes. We all have occasional trouble sitting through hour-long classes, and I would imagine it could be even more difficult for someone who hasn't practiced that. But ADD is a real diagnosis that real people really struggle with. It's not the latest trendy accessory that you self-diagnose because you get fidgety.

She should have seen a doctor, gotten a proper diagnosis and worked with the school's Students with Disabilities dept. She could have had a note-taker and taken exams with a proctor to take the stress off her (if she really does have some type of disability). She could also qualify to take fewer units and just go an extra semester (and summers) to make up for the class she misses each semester.

But no, it's easier to give up. I guess she was living off campus in an apartment with her DAD? What about HIS job? Or was she allowed out of his sight to attend classes?

I envy her only 3 hours of homework a night. I usually had more like 6 (TONS of reading), and of course, much worse around mid-terms/finals. Then again, I went to a top university, not Rinky-Dink U.

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I think that is a generalization which could be disproven by just checking out some local schools. I know several students from public schools who have all those things that you claim homeschool students are better at, in addition to other activities such as holding part-time jobs, volunteering at food banks or the local nursing home, playing on school or community athletic teams, coaching children, singing in community choirs, as well as extra-curricular activities such as drama, choir, tutoring, leadership club, LGBT clubs, all while keeping up with excellent grades that result in a lot of scholarships. My daughter put herself through 6 years of university without any debt by a combination of scholarships and part-time jobs while she was studying, with no money from us*. Drive, and determination are part of a person's makeup and homeschooled students do not have an" upper hand" by virtue of being home-schooled. Of course not all public school students are like that, but then not all homeschooled students have the traits you listed. My proof? The Duggars.

*To be accurate, she did borrow $500 for a deposit on an apartment, but paid us back with her next paycheque.

I see your point. I was trying to illustrate that not all homeschoolers are the SOTDRT type and it seems I slighted the average public school student in trying to do so. That was certainly not my intention. At all. I only meant that most homeschoolers are not the lazy, smuggaresque people they are often painted to be. However, I will freely admit that this comparison is a touchy issue with me. I certainly meant no personal offense to you or to your daughter and hope my blunderings will be taken in the spirit of duggar snark in which they were meant.

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I went to normal school and I would always need to get up in the lecture break and would rarely talk to people except a few friends/acquaintances. It might be a personality thing, I don't think homeschooling helps but it's not the sole cause.

At least she's able to see these points about herself. I really hope she stays there.

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She should have seen a doctor, gotten a proper diagnosis and worked with the school's Students with Disabilities dept. She could have had a note-taker and taken exams with a proctor to take the stress off her (if she really does have some type of disability). She could also qualify to take fewer units and just go an extra semester (and summers) to make up for the class she misses each semester.

Is this true? I have ADD (diagnosed, not made up) and am going back to school at 27 because I found college overwhelming in the past. I have been struggling with my ADD more now than in the past, and it's the one thing I'm dreading about going back to school. Part of me wants to take as much of a course load as possible (because, hey...I'm OLD, I want to be done.) But part of me thinks I'd do so much better if I could go 9 hours a semester.

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Things like this are why I really don't think homeschooling is ideal for most kids. I think the school environment, just by virtue of being there and by 'forcing' the child to interact with others and co-exist with them from a young age, really teaches children a lot of skills they don't necessarily pick up in even the best of homeschool classrooms. I can see where there would be circumstances where homeschooling would be preferable, but generally I think if there is an option to send kids to a semi-decent, affordable school, it may be best to do that.

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I can't speak personally to taking a lighter course load, because I never asked to do it- but I had very little difficulty arranging for a LOT of helpful accommodations through the disability office when I was in undergrad. Note-takers, extra time on exams, private rooms for said exams, (one professor very sweetly provided a jump rope for me so I could burn off some energy during exams and refocus) etc. Pretty much anything I could think of they were willing to do- you just have to have really good documentation of your diagnosis.

Grad school it was much harder to deal with their disability office- but I was also attending a much more prestigious and much larger institution, but I still managed to get a private room and extra time for tests, which was the big deal for me. And I never had any issues getting extensions on papers if I asked for them. I had to get new and even more detailed documentation which was the biggest headache of the whole thing- if you are looking to go back to school try to deal with the documentation that your school requires ASAP because that shit can be super time consuming.

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As for her dad going, at one point my nuclear family had me, my mom, and my brother all taking classes for different degrees at the same university. It doesn't mention they are in the same classes so he could be going for a higher degree while she is getting a bachelor's.

They were attending a Canadian Bible college with a student body of about 100. No higher degrees, and I have no idea if their one-, three-, and four-year "programs" actually count as accredited degrees or certifications of any kind. Maybe her dad has some aspirations of becoming a missionary, or maybe he was just taking classes for personal growth and knowledge.

But no, it's easier to give up. I guess she was living off campus in an apartment with her DAD? What about HIS job? Or was she allowed out of his sight to attend classes?

It's worse: the whole freaking family, mom and all seven of her younger sibs, moved so that she and he could go to this place.

I have no idea what kind of academic standards her school has, but tiny Bible colleges usually suck. I just keep thinking, if she thought this place was tough, what will she think of even a community college?

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I agree with the poster who said we have to make the distinction between most homeschooling that is well done and the small percentage that is SOTDRT.

The state I live in has deplorable public education. Many of my friends as well as I have been homeschooled our whole lives and we could tell you stories about college that astounded us.

1. My best friend’s sister did dual enrollment at a community college while in high school. She told me that the English class she took had an entire class that the professor explained what a period, comma, and exclamation point were! I thought that was taught in elementary school.

2. In my college English class, my professor had an entire class where she explained in detail what a thesis statement was. I learned that in 6th grade.

3. In my college humanities class my professor had us fill out review questions so we would not have to write a ton of papers. For this class you had to write a certain number of words so she told us to write the answers in complete sentences. The first time we turned them in, she graded them in front of each person. Except for me and one other guy, nobody followed the directions, they did not write in complete sentences.

4. In my math class our tests had to be taken on the computer in the math lab. There were no make-up tests unless you had a good reason and cleared it with the professor. On test days, half the class would not show up and did not inform the professor.

5. In my speech class our midterms and finals were speeches. I got a lower score on my final even though during my midterm, I had the flu, I was nervous and my visual aid( a YouTube video) had an epic failure. My final was well researched, well executed and I did not have the flu. The difference? The topic I used for my final was the benefits of homeschooling. I was also pretty board in that mandatory class because I had learned all of the material through my nine years of learning by do in 4-H.

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As a former homeschooler, I think a distinction must be made between the SOTDRT and the epic awesomeness of other forms of homeschooling a la ClibbyJo and many, many others on FJ. While I agree a transition must be made, I assert that much of what she experienced would be similar to what any High Schooler might experience, especially in terms of workload and study time. A lot of her personal experiences must have been influenced by her lifestyle.

Speaking personally, my own transition to college was hard, but that was because I got spoiled by being able to go to school in my nightdress. The getting up and dressed was actually hardest, for me. I think your average homeschooler has the upper hand in things like being able to get work done, working independently, and such things. All in all, I've observed that your average homeschooler is actually pretty driven and naturally inquisitive.

Little-Eyes, the problem I have with homeschooling is self-reporting. I've seen ClibbyJo's programmes of study - they are impressive, comprehensive courses of student-centered education. I've no doubt that other FJ-ers are competent homeschoolers.

My issue is that the SOTDRT parents can so easily co-opt the language of secular homeschooling. Think of Michelle's recent claim that her children suffered from dyslexia, or this self-diagnosed ADHD student. You speak of the "average homeschooler" ; isn't this something of a No True Scotsman argument? I just fear there are far too many Duggars masquerading as LittleEyes.

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duchess0592, why did you go to such a terrible college? Why not go somewhere else?

The first college I went to which was the one with the exclamation point incident, the thesis statement incident and the speech incident, is the #1 community college in the nation. I went there because I was dual enrolled. The other college I am going to is also a community college but after I earn my AA there I automatically get a spot in a big name university. This I do for several reasons but it’s not like I go to a small town school no one has heard of.

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Good stuff to think about for my kids. We are educating with college in mind, so I do need to be aware of this kind of thing.

One of my kids will do just fine. I already know that. He's extremely adaptable, great at getting his work done, socially adept. I had to laugh, when we took him for the PSSAs and he had the time of his life. I don't remember loving those tests so much. But he thought the whole thing was grand and exciting. I think he would thrive pretty much anywhere (he already does) and college won't be an exception.

The next kid is basically his complete opposite. He's a daydreamer, socially oblivious, marches to the beat of his own drum, and is very smart but has trouble tranlating that onto paper (ie: he can pick with 100% accuracy the correct spelling of a word out of several options and verbally give me about 95% accuracy if i ask him to spell something verbally, but when he writes he randomly makes up spelling and it's totally ridiculous). We are working on these things, with the help of our cyber school, but I can see him struggling in college.

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Is this true? I have ADD (diagnosed, not made up) and am going back to school at 27 because I found college overwhelming in the past. I have been struggling with my ADD more now than in the past, and it's the one thing I'm dreading about going back to school. Part of me wants to take as much of a course load as possible (because, hey...I'm OLD, I want to be done.) But part of me thinks I'd do so much better if I could go 9 hours a semester.

Only public schools/colleges are required to give accomodations, but some private colleges will help too, they just don't have to by law.

I also have diagnosed ADHD, and while I did okay at traditional college, I did my grad work at a school designed for working adults (a little more expensive, but I made sure it was a legit one, non profit, ect...) and the one class a month thing was great because I could hyperfocus on that subject for a month then go on to the next one.

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Have you ever had a homeschooled student who made a good transition into public education? Was it someone who'd been homeschooled her/his entire life or someone who was homeschooled briefly?

I have two nephews and a niece that made the transition successfully. I say successfully because all three graduated public high school and two have graduated from accredited universities, my niece is a sophomore at Colorado School of Mines. They were homeschooled for religious and personal reasons. The personal reason was that they all were highly competitive tennis players and need the time for national tournaments and training. They are well socialized and belonged to many clubs and volunteered with their church. All three had completed a general high school curriculum at 14 or so and entered public high school to take specialized classes and play competitive high school tennis. They lived in an area with magnet schools offering specialized educations in the areas they were interested in. There is a huge difference in SODRT and homeschooling. My cousin is currently homeschooling because her husband got a job at a very highly ranked prep school and her boys can go there tuition free if they qualify academically, the public schools in the city where they live were not providing an education that would prepare them for the prep school. The boys have tutors and I teach them Algebra and Geometry, I am not a teacher but I am an engineer and I am shocked at how much their little brains can absorb. I think everyone has their own reason for "homeschooling" but cheating your children out of a proper education should not be one of them.

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The first college I went to which was the one with the exclamation point incident, the thesis statement incident and the speech incident, is the #1 community college in the nation. I went there because I was dual enrolled. The other college I am going to is also a community college but after I earn my AA there I automatically get a spot in a big name university. This I do for several reasons but it’s not like I go to a small town school no one has heard of.

I don't really get the relationships and differences in the American system. Is it that there are 4-year colleges and community colleges? Associate's degrees and bachelor's degrees? I suppose a community college is like an old-fashioned British polytechnic but I am not sure. In the UK, no matter how awful your education, you can pretty much trick people into letting you into a good school. You just need to be able to fake your way through the exams and write good personal statement.

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Little-Eyes, the problem I have with homeschooling is self-reporting. I've seen ClibbyJo's programmes of study - they are impressive, comprehensive courses of student-centered education. I've no doubt that other FJ-ers are competent homeschoolers.

My issue is that the SOTDRT parents can so easily co-opt the language of secular homeschooling. Think of Michelle's recent claim that her children suffered from dyslexia, or this self-diagnosed ADHD student. You speak of the "average homeschooler" ; isn't this something of a No True Scotsman argument? I just fear there are far too many Duggars masquerading as LittleEyes.

This is, from what I have seen, a huge problem in homeschooling. A lot of the homeschooling is indeed geared towards conservatives, so this does happen. In my mind, there are a lot od stereotypes about homeschooling, saying that you're either really smart, really lazy, or your parents are fundie. For most people, hence the use of the word average, this is not the case. But again, this is only what I've seen. Also, we did evaluations/testing every year to make sure everything is where it should be. I support that, which I know is controversial, but I think anything that saves kids from the SOTDRT is a good thing.

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I don't really get the relationships and differences in the American system. Is it that there are 4-year colleges and community colleges? Associate's degrees and bachelor's degrees? I suppose a community college is like an old-fashioned British polytechnic but I am not sure. In the UK, no matter how awful your education, you can pretty much trick people into letting you into a good school. You just need to be able to fake your way through the exams and write good personal statement.

Yes at a community college you can get an AA, sometimes a bachelor’s degree in a few areas. Getting into a good school here depends on test scores, recommendation letters, extracurricular activities and if you can afford the school. The problem with the education system here is the notion that it is not ok to fail. Somehow we have gotten into this mindset that if a person fails it shatters their self-esteem and their world will collapse. In fact failing teaches us how to get up and try again. How can you fall down seven times and get up eight if you are never allowed to fall down in the first place?

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I agree with the poster who said we have to make the distinction between most homeschooling that is well done and the small percentage that is SOTDRT.

The state I live in has deplorable public education. Many of my friends as well as I have been homeschooled our whole lives and we could tell you stories about college that astounded us.

1. My best friend’s sister did dual enrollment at a community college while in high school. She told me that the English class she took had an entire class that the professor explained what a period, comma, and exclamation point were! I thought that was taught in elementary school.

2. In my college English class, my professor had an entire class where she explained in detail what a thesis statement was. I learned that in 6th grade.

It could have been a remedial English class. Which wouldn't be unheard of for a student who was also still in high school. And the second one makes sense for two reasons- different teachers/profs like slightly different things, and also the fact that as teachers and profs you reteach concepts to make sure that the students really do "get it."

Also, a community college is not the same thing as a 4 year college or a university.

3. In my college humanities class my professor had us fill out review questions so we would not have to write a ton of papers. For this class you had to write a certain number of words so she told us to write the answers in complete sentences. The first time we turned them in, she graded them in front of each person. Except for me and one other guy, nobody followed the directions, they did not write in complete sentences.

When I taught high school, I often had issues with students trying this- I still have issues with my middle schoolers doing this- it has nothing to do with the teacher, it has to do with lazy students thinking that they will at least get partial credit, so they are lazy.

4. In my math class our tests had to be taken on the computer in the math lab. There were no make-up tests unless you had a good reason and cleared it with the professor. On test days, half the class would not show up and did not inform the professor.

Again, not a surprise, a lot of this has to do with the type of student who attends a community college. (No, not every community college student, but there are many who just want to do the least work possible) This doesn't have to do with the quality of their previous schools.

5. In my speech class our midterms and finals were speeches. I got a lower score on my final even though during my midterm, I had the flu, I was nervous and my visual aid( a YouTube video) had an epic failure. My final was well researched, well executed and I did not have the flu. The difference? The topic I used for my final was the benefits of homeschooling. I was also pretty board in that mandatory class because I had learned all of the material through my nine years of learning by do in 4-H.

This is an assumption. As a teacher I look at how reputable the research sources are as well as the quality of the actual presentation. As a student, I would have tried to make the project at least something that the prof was interested in. (just like at work, you do what your superiors want you to do.)

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I was homeschooled (SOTDRT type) from 4th grade through high school. I am the second of five children (all homeschooled).

I excelled in college. I had very good SAT and ACT scores (99th percentile) and made the dean's list most semesters despite also having to work more than full-time to support myself. I succeeded academically because I have a high IQ, have always had a strong desire for knowledge, and because I learn best through reading.

However, I did have a very difficult time integrating socially. I didn't talk to classmates (outside of assigned group work) for the first three years of my undergraduate career. I was awkward and uncomfortable and frequently found alarming gaps in my academic and social understanding.

I am the only one of my siblings to go to college (or plan to - my two youngest siblings are just 15 and 17 but aggressively insist that they will not go). My older sister works for herself cleaning houses. My next younger sister works in retail; she was a barista for a long time, has managed a coffee house and a pizza place, and now works for Macy's. They both have their GED and nothing more.

The SOTDRT basically screwed two of the three of us older siblings and looks to be doing the same to the younger two. I've done well for myself (am now a professor believe it or not) because of a lucky combination of personal wiring, hard work, and opportunities, but my sisters could be and do so much more if they had just had teachers and support and encouragement. My younger sister seems to have some mild dyslexia, but without proper diagnosis and help she just got labeled as the "slow" one who wasn't meant to do much school while STILL somehow being the one who got the responsibility for "teaching" the youngest two! She still wants to go to college but at 27 with a family, needing remedial education to get her ready for even basic classes, and limited resources that probably won't be happening.

I makes me so sad for what could have been...

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I might get blasted for this, but I think that just as it's a mistake to assume that homeschooling doesn't always prepare a child well for college, it's a mistake to assume that public schooling always DOES prepare a child well for college.

We live in a rural community. I homeschooled my now 20 year old daughter all the way through her school years. After high school, she enrolled in college full-time while also working full-time as the manager of a print shop, and supporting herself completely. She was on the dean's list every semester except for one. She had no problems with social interaction in classes.

But the stories she told me about her public-schooled peers were, well, shocking. Kids who couldn't write complete sentences. Kids who not only hadn't read the classics, they'd never even HEARD of the classics. (One girl said, when Jane Austen was mentioned in conversation, "Oh, I'm not up on the newer actresses.") Kids who had poor time management skills because they were accustomed to learning taking place only from 9-3. Kids who had poor study skills because their senior year was filled with fluff classes.

Certainly, some public schools are better than others, and some kids will learn no matter what the environment is like, because they're self-motivated. I just think that when these "homeschooling is so awful" discussions come up, it's important to remember that in some cases, the flip side - public school - is not a great option, either.

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Kids who had poor time management skills because they were accustomed to learning taking place only from 9-3.

I've heard that it's often homeschoolers who have poor time management skills because they're used to taking as much time as needed to get everything right and perfect, and can't understand not being able to be perfect in everything.

Of course, I hear this mostly from homeschoolers and it always sounds to me like an "interview flaw", so I take it with a huge grain of salt.

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It could have been a remedial English class. Which wouldn't be unheard of for a student who was also still in high school. And the second one makes sense for two reasons- different teachers/profs like slightly different things, and also the fact that as teachers and profs you reteach concepts to make sure that the students really do "get it."

Also, a community college is not the same thing as a 4 year college or a university.

When I taught high school, I often had issues with students trying this- I still have issues with my middle schoolers doing this- it has nothing to do with the teacher, it has to do with lazy students thinking that they will at least get partial credit, so they are lazy.

Again, not a surprise, a lot of this has to do with the type of student who attends a community college. (No, not every community college student, but there are many who just want to do the least work possible) This doesn't have to do with the quality of their previous schools.

This is an assumption. As a teacher I look at how reputable the research sources are as well as the quality of the actual presentation. As a student, I would have tried to make the project at least something that the prof was interested in. (just like at work, you do what your superiors want you to do.)

I’m not making a point about the teacher, I am making the point that people on here say a lot of homeschoolers are ill equipped to handle college and I am saying maybe it is the other way around.

1. It was not a remedial class it was a general ed class needed for an AA.

2. This was not just a refresher lesson. These students had no idea what a thesis statement was and many still did not get it after an extensive lesson. This teacher was a good teacher too.

3. This was my point. College age students have no excuse for being lazy except that the system is set up to promote laziness. Those students who did not do the homework correctly still got credit for the homework and passed the class and in my opinion that teaches students nothing.

4. This teacher I give props to. The lazy students who missed more than 3 or 4 classes she withdrew.

5. I would also think this was an assumption if I had not gone on to win first place in my state’s 4-H public speaking contest with that speech. Also the assignment the professor gave was to give a speech about something you wanted to make people aware of. Some people did speeches on puppy mills, vegan lifestyles etc. I chose homeschooling.

Yes A community college is different than a university but it sends me a red flag when I am being taught things in any college that I already learned in 6th grade.

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I am extremely anti-social. In between most classes I would sit at my desk while everyone else talked. I would also sit by myself in the back row at the first of the year. Eventually I made my way to sit with different girls, but it took a lot of time.

To be fair, I was private and public schooled, and I've always kind of been like this. I've gone back to school, and I very much prefer to keep to myself. I do end up socializing with some of the other students, but really, I'd much prefer it if they left me alone so I could read. :ugeek:

However, I homeschooled my son until he started fourth grade at a public school this year, and he is a huge social butterfly. He knows everyone, everyone knows and likes him, he's friendly and outgoing and has no problem going up to someone and starting up a conversation. He definitely did NOT get this from me. :lol: Knowing how I am, though, I've always encouraged him to approach others, to walk up to the librarian and ask for help, or to join the group of kids and ask if he can play with them. While I'm happy keeping to myself, I do suffer from some social anxiety, and I want him to have the skills to be a full member of society, even if he one day chooses to become a semi-hermit like his mom. ;)

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So sad that her baby sister growing was such a heartbreak. Sad. Not all homeschoolers (even Christian ones) are like this, so please don't generalize. I know plenty who have gotten real scholarships to real colleges and done just fine. Sadly, this girl is becoming the "norm" among the far, far right VF/QF crowd. But, unlike most of them, at least she got the chance to go SOMEWHERE even if it was with her dad there.

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