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  1. It is filled with....such lovely stuff. It's a kinda pretty book. And it won't fall into the wrong (right?) hands at least now. I'm skimming over it to find what sorts of horrors are buried inside, since I've just started.
  2. I was on the website of Telos, the unaccredited "college" run by IBLP and I noticed it says it is closing due to "finanicial stability." http://telos.edu/ It appears to me that IBLP is attempting to rebrand itself and seperate themselves from their Gothard era as much as possible. They have done away with a lot of programs from that time.
  3. Kenneth Dewitt, a former prison chaplain from Arkansas, has been charged with 50 counts of third-degree sexual assault, after three inmates accused him of pressuring them into giving him sexual favors. Dewitt is reportedly a devotee of Gothard and used Basic Life Principles in his prison work. Makes me think of this little ditty from Matthew: Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/prison-chaplain-charged-with-raping-inmates-was-strongly-influenced-by-disgraced-minister-tied-to-duggars/
  4. Mods, please merge if someone has already posted about this. Staddon Family blog announces that IBLP is downsizing & moving from Chicago to Big Sandy. staddonfamily.com/2015/09/14/texas-ho/ The decision has been made. Last week it was officially announced that IBLP will be relocating its headquarters from Chicago to Big Sandy, Texas. The trends over the last 15 years have shown that the ministry has more properties than it currently needs, and after much prayer and consideration it was decided that it would be a financially strategic move to consolidate with the ALERT campus down in Texas. While not unexpected, the move will still be quite a change for all of us. ... God miraculously provided the Oak Brook property for the Institute back in 1969, and since then groups and delegations from all over the world have come seeking practical instruction on how to apply Scriptural principles to every aspect of life. While this brings a chapter of IBLP’s history to a close, the vision of introducing people to Jesus Christ and providing families, churches, businesses, and nations with Biblical training on how to find true success in life remains unchanged. The Lord has worked mightily in the past and we are excited about what He has for the future. We are all one body in Christ (1 Cor. 12), and as each member looks to the Head and follows His leading we know He has great things in store for each one.
  5. This is an old RG article but I can't find that it has been discussed here. RG and another website called on the IBLP BoD to evaluate the Institute's teachings that have caused so much harm. Of course they refused to respond but Bill responded for them because nothing says "I'm totally not in control of this ministry anymore" like answering for the BoD. Bill writes a letter trying to weasel out of taking responsibility for the things he taught and RG responds by using his own words against him. It does not seem like Bill has responded to their response. And the board, obviously has never given any sort of response even though they have been made very much aware that RG wants their reply and not just Bill's. .recoveringgrace.org/2014/12/waiting-on-theological-clarification-from-iblp/ On circumcision: Bill: Circumcision is not a moral requirement for Christians. RG: This issue was point 9 in the 2002 arbitration meeting. The Basic Care Bulletin 11- How to Make a Wise Decision on Circumcision states: "Because this is one subject which is so strongly commended and reinforced in Scripture, there is no question what the decision of Christian parents should be on this matter. It is important to note that circumcision was established before the Law was given. Circumcision goes back to the obedience of Abraham. Thus, those who would seek to dismiss circumcision with the Law would have no Scriptural basis to do so. According to this circumcision is non-optional for a Christian parent and those who might think about choosing against it "have no Scriptural basis to do so.." The booklet goes on to outline "The Basic Elements of a Scriptural Circumcision Ceremony," which are: "1. Provide a Certificate 2. Schedule the Circumcision 3. Determine the Wisest Procedure 4. Invite Special Witnesses 5. Plan the Ceremony" It moves on to the "Suggested Procedure for a Scriptural Ceremony" which includes "1. Recognize the Guests 2. Tell How Circumcision Began 3. Recognize the Eighth Day 4. Emphasize Moral Purity 5. Explain Heart Circumcision 6. Pray for the Child 7. Sign the Certificate." On if Christians should stick to the OT dietary commands: Bill: The answer is "no." The Levitical dietary commands apply to the law of Moses which was given to the Jewish nation RG: Your clear response of "No" to any requirements or demands of the Law of Moses is most refreshing. However, as it applies to the Law's restrictions in eating pork products, your answer in this this paper is contradictory to a well-known forty year history of your tight restrictions against eating any pork products and your teaching and preventing other believers from eating pork products Bill, would you be willing and so bold as to offer some assistance to the Duggar family (which are close friends of yours) so they can also experience your (new) freedom to eat pork and allow others to do so? On Bill's advice about married sex: Bill: About forty years ago I pointed out some medical benefits of these laws. Since then, I have concluded that it is not my place to tell married couples how to run their marriages. RG: This was point 8 of the issues discussed in the 2002 mediation meeting and the one which most shocked Eric Landry of Modern Reformation Magazine. If IBLP has since abandoned this teaching since 2002 and if this reflects public repentance and retraction of the original teachings and is a following through of point 10 of the agreed upon 11 points of arbitration that is welcome. __ Is this a cosmetic alteration to your previous teachings? or __ Are you repenting and recanting your previous teachings? Bill really seems to have thought that he could get away with pretending he didn't actually teach all these things. Sadly for him he left a 40 year trail that proves he did. I bet he was furious when he read that response.
  6. I am so used to seeing the Duggars attend anti-abortion rallies and liquor license protests as well as making anti-trans robocalls that this took me by complete surprise. From their FB: Of course the Gothard hypocrisy can't help but be noted, but still.
  7. I've been wondering about this for awhile. On their first date JB took MIchelle to his school dance. And in 14 Children & Preg Again he specifically calls it a dance. So were they ok with dancing at that point? And in their first book they say when Josh was a baby they met homeschoolers and decided to go that route. So when did they make the leap to the IBLP/ATI cult?
  8. Although the Duggars are criticised in the media, they seem to be so good at deflating and deflecting and ignoring criticism. This has meant that the truth about the Duggars being Gothardites etc, has never really hit mainstream media and then exploded into a 'Jon+Kate plus 8' sized scandal. I put this down to their political background. They just answer challenging questions in all the same ways, which is a skill I am sure they learnt from working in politics.
  9. Question for fundie followers - yes, the Duggar family campaigns for conservative candidates, but are fundie women who are ATI/Gothard/formerly VF followers allowed to vote? I'm sure they must discuss their votes with their husbands, fathers, whatever.. but ultimately, are they allowed to enter the voting booth and cast ballots alone, or must they bring a headship or male relative with them into the booth for guidance and oversight? Just wanted to know and can't find anything on the 'net about this. I hope they are allowed to vote alone!
  10. grandmadugger

    The Duggar Family A Cult?

    I've always loved reading about various cults because I'm a nerd. Anyway my bedtime reading last night was a breakdown on the steps of what it takes to be a cult. I found it very interesting and while I was reading I started to see the Duggar family. I'm not talking about their religion but the family itself. So the guy broke it down similar to Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs or a pyramid starting at the bottom and working it's way up. The first level is shaming. Due to some sort of shame, real or perceived, they feel like they have to earn acceptance (Michelle). Children are usually trying to earn the affection of their parent because they love is conditional and usually includes shaming and overly strong control of the parents. I think that pretty much hits those kids square on the head. In order to earn God's acceptance they usually go the lazy route by just accepting a spiritual leader than doing any real study for themselves. Legalism is the next level. In this level there is a set of do's and don'ts for the acceptance that they are working for that stems from the shame. He described legalism as an attitude instead of a belief system. The first things to die in this level is jof of life, freedom, and personal relationships (he mentions God but he's approaching it from a religious stand point) Guilt also starts to take over with the feeling they'll be rejected by not living up to the list of dos and don'ts. Spiritual Abuse is the next level. He quoted another article, The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, to define it as "the mistreatment of a person who is in need of help, support, or greater spiritual empowerment, with the result of weakening, undermining, or decreasing that person's spiritual empowerment." (JB anyone?) The last is mind control or brainwashing which is giving his or her will to the control of the leader. I found this all interesting in relation to the family. I could see where you could sub God for JB or Michelle depending on what it was talking about.
  11. JessaJessa

    This Gothard Fella

    So, totally curious here, how do you guys know so much about this Gothard fella that the Duggars follow? I am fairly new here and have never heard of him before now. I live in a pretty liberal part of CA, so most of the churches are super laid back. I've never heard of a Pastor (or whatever he is) have so many rules for his followers. So for example, how do some of you know that he prefers young women's hair to be long and wavy? Not straight, or curly, but wavy. Did he put out a book of rules or something? Have the Duggars admitted to following this guy? Do all people who attend these conferences like ATI follow Gothard?
  12. I feel these past two weddings have demonstrated many things us FJ-ers have brought to lights over the years. Jill and Jessa creating their own wedding styles and life seems to be picking away at the standards demanded by JB and Gothard. I can't imagine JB wanted Ben for Jessa (does not measure up to those courters need to be able to provide for their wives) and Jill marrying a guy she supposedly hadn't met for months, yet fell in love!!! How will he handle the rest of his blessings who have witnessed their older sisters make certain decisions?
  13. I realize that I'm in way too deep when I wake up at 4:30 in the morning and my first thoughts are "why does jim bob stand in front of the church and make such a big to-do about that first kiss and not about the fact that two young people are making a lifetime commitment to one another. It just seems to me that the focus is skewed and priorities are out of order. Since I have joined FreeJinger I have really taken notice of just how immature Jim Bob and Michelle really are. Other husband/wife fundie combos seem to have a power/control aspect but these two have more of at 'teenage quality to their relationship) Yes, they have their finances in order - but it seems that they wholly focus on sex, kissing, blah, blah... what about real preparations and foundations for marriage? What about ensuring two people are truly compatible? I have started to really dig into this whole Bill Gothard ministry thing and the patriarchal legalistic elements. It just seems to me like a bunch of boy-men who think about little more than the physical aspects of a relationship and not what really makes it tick. Annoying. Baseless. Thoughts?
  14. 1st wiccan fundie

    ALERT Purpose

    What is the point of this ALERT Academy? I've looked at the site and several other information sources on it. Clearly, they get some type of outdoor training and rescue service education but, what is the real point? Other than Jesus shit,excuse my language. What are they suppose to do with this? It's not like it will help become a first responder or look good if you were to apply for the military. And I don't think they really explain well enough what it's intended for. Josiah seems to be there all the time! Anyway anyone have any insight on this? Maybe it's just me - though I find it revolting at least Journey of the heart,( to the heart?,) states their purpose rather clear.
  15. You would think that after Michelle herself experienced a breakdown and anger issues when her kids were little and she actually had to look after them herself, she might be inclined to talk to her daughters and advise them about how difficult it is to have so many kids so close together, especially when you don't have live-in helpers to do it for you. They make it look easy on tv but that's because she was lucky enough to have all these girls early on who grew up enough to start taking care of their siblings and as they grew, so did their responsibilities and Michelle's life got easier and easier. But what if her daughters don't have a ton of girls first? What if they have like 8 boys in a row? Does she not worry about them emotionally breaking down? Or maybe she thinks if that she can just send Jana or Jinger or whoever over to help them out...problem solved! It just surprises me that having gone through what many believe was a nervous breakdown herself from being overwhelmed, not to mention anger problems when interacting with the kids, she isn't more compassionate with her daughters. Do you think they really have true relationships with her where they can express their fears and worries and dreams? Is Michelle even capable of that with any of her kids? In many ways they seem to have such superficial relationships.
  16. From Life & Style magazine (tabloid), Oct. 20 issue, page 6 "Duggars Under Fire: Will Fans Desert Them?" ..."It's a side of the fundamentalist Christian family that TLC viewers never see -- and that's intentional. "They don't get to see the real Duggars, because a lot of the fans would likely flee,' an industry insider tells Life & Style. 'If one of them says something too controversial during taping, it gets cut.' Goes on in a not flattering way, and they reprint the pic of the death camp inmates that Jessa posted and part of her quote.
  17. With stories lately of kids from some of the ultra-fundie families escaping to lead their own lives, it makes me wonder how the Duggars have managed to keep all the kids drinking the koolaid. I know they have been sent to Gothard Re-education Camps and stuff if they starting getting even the tiniest bit rebellious, but how is it these other kids have managed to break away? Do the Duggars isolate their kids more than these other families? Are they more restrictive. I know that some families have allowed their kids to attend schools and universities. Is that the reason? That the Duggars never seem to get a chance to meet and talk with anyone who is not of the same ilk? Do other families have "accountability partners" who must be with them all the time the way the Duggars do? Do you think TLC and the money they make from their show has made it harder for the kids to escape? Or do you think it's a blessing because they've been exposed to more through having to create storylines and through stuff like going to talk at schools and book signings? Do you think any of them will ever break away? Or write a tell-all? Do you think the girls, once they are married and out of the house, will be like Jill...continuing to drink the koolaid completely, or will they use the opportunity of some alone time to explore the world a bit? Surf the internet and find out what people are saying about them and what they have been missing, etc.?
  18. Julie Anne at Spiritual Sounding Board reports on what Bill Gothard has been up to. She even spoke with him on the phone twice. spiritualsoundingboard.com/2014/10/12/bill-gothards-new-programministry-total-success-power-teams/ As anyone might imagine, it's the same snake-oil repackaged with a name ripped from the 1980s-era self-help industry.
  19. http://www.religionnews.com/2014/03/06/ ... legations/ Interesting article. Wonder what caused it to drop from 2009? Wasn't Gothard not "charged" until this year... The allegations against Gothard dovetail with financial woes. In recent years, IBLP’s net revenue has dropped significantly, and the ministry is losing money. Between 2009 and 2012, it lost $8.6 million. Its net assets dropped from $92 million in 2010 to $81 million in 2012. It held 504 seminars in 2010, but that number dropped to fewer than 50 in 2012.
  20. Was there some sort or revival thing they went to? They looked so normal in the old pics of them? Wonder how Gothard found them.....
  21. Joy-Anna didn't end up reading her letter to Jill in the bridal shop because she said she would cry. Well, what would be wrong with that? I also noticed that the Duggars and the Batseses tell each other, "Don't cry," usually when someone is about to.
  22. Hey guys, I'm new here! I've spent the last few days reading this forum. After discovering 19kac and thinking something was off... I googled. Anyway, I was wondering, what do you guys think would happen if (god forbid, I would never wish it upon "her children") Michelle died during this pregnancy? Would Jim Boob just marry another fundi willing to continue to pop out kid after kid? Would the kids finally flee the Duggar and fundi cults?!
  23. One thing I noticed watching Erin Bates wedding was this whole thing about how romantic the courtship and engagement was, and then how much like a fairytale the wedding was, and with the whole not-kissing until they are married it all plays into this sort of fairytale story of waiting for The One. But it made me wonder if the sheltering and protecting (from the real world and dating) of these girls doesn't make it more of a shock when reality hits later after the wedding. They talk about how their courtship allows them to become best friends and really get to know each other, but I don't think they really do. They are so on their best behaviour, so to speak, and always chaperoned and being careful not to touch. I think the guys get swept up into all the attention and fairytale aspect of the whole experience as much as the girls, but then what happens after the novelty wears off, or a few babies come along and money is tight and they are so young and stunted emotionally and with regards to life in general. Even Michelle admitted to losing it when the kids were young. But I think there will be even more pressure to be blissful mothers who have it all *joyfully* under control due to the Duggars expectations and the show's image. Just trying to imagine the pressure they would feel to be the perfect wife and mother (and the perfect father, husband and provider for a quickly growing family). I think of Ben and Jessa and they are so young and seem so unrealistic and unprepared in so many ways. Sure they love the fairytale they are featured players in right now, but what will happen later? Who do you think will crack? Anna? Jessa? How many kids in?
  24. Radar Online recently posted an open letter to the Duggars written by Megan Lind, a former ATI follower and victim of Gothard's abuse: http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... arassment/ In the letter she details her experience of being brought up in the same way that the Duggars are raising their girls, and says how she was actually punished when she tried to go to the Leadership of ATI to express her discomfort with his inappropriate ways of touching her. She says that ATI and the way the Duggars raise their children, especially the girls, to be completely obedient to adults and not question, sets them up to become victims of such abuse rather than providing the protection that the Duggars think they are giving their daughters. I agree with her. These kids have not been taught how to say no, even if uncomfortable. They have been taught, instead, to be obedient ...even joyfully so (even if they aren't joyful inside...then they are taught that is their fault). If one of these marriages turned out to be domestically violent, would these girls be able to stand up to their husbands, or get help for themselves? Would they be able to leave after they've been told that this this man is now essentially in charge and they have to be obedient to him and allow him to make all the decisions? And the boys too? Would they come forward if they were the victims of sexual molestation at one of their ATI camps? Or would they be ashamed and feel as if it was somehow their fault? Do you think the Duggars heard about/read this open letter?
  25. So I watched an old episode where the Duggs answer viewer questions and Jill & Jing were asked the age-old question of why don't the Duggs dance. Jill answered by saying that it stirs up desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled (strangely she never utters the word defrauding). My question is, if that's the reason, why can't married couples dance in the privacy of their homes? In that case those desires would be righteously fulfilled. Plus, it has the added bonus of proving that unless it's a bump-and-grind, it likely won't lead to lust.
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