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  1. Does anyone remember the strange community in Floyd County, Virginia named Rivendell where these paranoid Reformed Christians went to live just before Y2K where they could survive with their generators, storage food, and guns to shoot heathens who wanted food? I'm not entirely sure, but I think that Phillip Lancaster lived there at one time, the guy who wrote that truly horrible "Family Man, Family Leader" book that VF published. Here is the entry on Wikipedia from Floyd County, Virginia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_County,_Virginia It was like the Y2K Jonestown for fringe Calvinists. Now, Nancy Pearcy was a student of Francis Schaeffer, Franky's dad (Franky, the author of "Crazy for God"). Nancy has published some books, and the presuppositional apologists (the Calvinist dominionist Christian Reconstructionist mastermind debaters) today mostly all love Nancy's books. I have a copy of Total Truth, but I only half like two chapters in it. Anyway, everyone in this bunch thinks she's pretty peachy keen, the person who picked up where Francis Schaeffer left off in his cause. A friend of mine just sent me this from FB, written by Nancy Pearcy's husband. (Frankly, I think what Francis had going at his educational facility, L'bri, was a bit cultic, too, but, that's another story.) It looks like they took up residence at survive Y2K land, Rivendell. Gag!
  2. Lisafer

    Calvinism as I Knew It

    Calvinism for my family wasn’t just an abstract theological concept. It informed every aspect of our lives, painfully so. The RPCNA, which I grew up in, is definitely Calvinist in their beliefs. They hold the Westminster Confession of Faith as subordinate only to the Bible in terms of doctrine. And the WCF is strictly Calvinist in doctrine. The TULIP acronym is a useful aid to what we believed and what our church believed: · Total Depravity: the doctrine that humans are completely unable to do anything good whatsoever. As in, even your thoughts are evil. I could go on forever about this; the belief was that the unsaved were incapable of doing any true good in the sight of God. Example: an unsaved man risks his life to save a child from drowning. Good, right? According to this belief, no, only “less evil” than letting the child drown, because the unsaved man was not performing this act “to the glory of God.” He was performing it for less pure motives than God’s glory, and therefore he was sinning. Saved people were only capable of true good insofar as the Holy Spirit inside of them was motivating them and purifying their sinful actions. · Unconditional Election: the doctrine that God has chosen, from eternity, those people that he will save; and that he has chosen them not for anything that they have done, but just because he can. (Sort of like Thanos randomly decimating half the universe’s population). · Limited Atonement: the doctrine that Christ died ONLY for the elect (the ones that God had already chosen to save). John Doe is not elect; therefore, Christ did not die for John Doe’s sins. This doctrine is kind of disgusting and pisses me off. Christ, the figurehead for love, salvation, and forgiveness in the Christian religion, LIMITED his salvation to the elect. Ugh. Gross. You might as well praise Thanos for leaving half the universe alive. He was so merciful! · Irresistible Grace: the doctrine that God’s decision to make you elect cannot be changed or resisted. Free will is not a thing for Calvinists. You don’t have free will. If God wants to save you, wants to make you believe in Christ for salvation, you will not be able to resist it. On the other hand, if God hasn’t chosen you, you will never be able to have saving faith in Christ. · Perseverance of the Saints: the doctrine of “once saved, always saved” except for Calvinists. Since they were chosen from eternity, it’s more like “always saved.” Since God is all-powerful, never changes, and has chosen you, you’re either elect or not. There is no crossover. This leads directly into the “no true Scotsman” fallacy, as people do leave the faith. They are seen as having never been true Christians in the first place. (There are differences of opinion on “the unpardonable sin” mentioned in Mark 3: 28-29, and other passages. Some Calvinists would say that I have committed the unpardonable sin by leaving Christianity and following another path. But those Calvinists would consider me to have never been regenerate to start with.) This is Calvinism as it was taught to me and as I understood it. There are shades of Calvinism, of course, just as there are shades of all religions. The effects of this doctrine were, to start with, guilt. Everything I did and thought, every breath in a literal sense, was either evil or highly suspect of being evil. Coupled with my OCD, this led to years of muttering under my breath “oh-God-please-forgive-me” for the littlest action that might have been sinful. I dragged my guilt with me everywhere I went, crippled by the sense of sin. I didn’t understand people who talked about the burden of sin being lifted. Sure, I could hope that I was one of the elect and would escape hell; but that was about it. I was simultaneously told to avoid sin, and that sin could not be avoided. It was painful, painful beyond belief. Coupled with mental illness, it was nearly unbearable. Another effect was prejudice against others. Our doctrine was special: the only true doctrine. People who were not Christians were evil, incapable of doing good. My motives were suspect: theirs were undoubtedly sin. People who were not Calvinists, even though they were Christian, were seen as “less than,” not having the whole truth. I learned to doubt the salvation of people who believed in free will (Arminianism). The prejudice and doubting may not have been an intended effect, but I have never known a Calvinist congregation that did not have an extra helping of arrogance. An arrogance that corrupted my mind and poisoned me against others. I think that Calvinists often see themselves as “special,” and “intellectual,” because their doctrines are convoluted and require a lot of study and understanding to grasp. The idea that “Jesus died for my sins,” and a simple faith in that idea, is seen as being a “baby Christian.” Calvinists pride themselves on being more advanced. They like discussions on the “act” of justification vs. the “work” of sanctification. They like infighting over the nuances of the Westminster Confession. They like debating the positions of tiny splinter denominations. (I knew of a Calvinist preacher who refused to enter an alliance with another tiny Calvinist church because the second church refused to force the women to wear headcoverings. They were aligned on salvation doctrines and worship practices.) Yet another effect was fear. Paralyzing fear. If I was elect, everything would be ok in the end. I would go off to Heaven, which sounded horribly boring, but at least it was devoid of flames. But if I wasn’t elect? Nothing could save me from Hell. And there was no way to be 100% sure that I was elect. No literal book with my name written in it. To counteract this, the church talked about “assurance,” which was supposedly the Holy Spirit comforting our souls with trust in God. It wasn’t very comforting, as Satan was also waiting, ready to trick us into false assurance. Determining which voice was speaking to our hearts was difficult. I had no “assurance” until I was about 18 or 19, at which point I formally joined the church I’d been attending since I was 6 or 7. It was an intense, traumatic time for me, knowing that refusing to join could be a sign that I wasn’t elect, but that being admitted to Communion and taking it “unworthily” would bring down unpleasant heavenly consequences. (I took the membership vows very seriously, but I now consider myself to have been coerced. I was brought up to believe that Hell awaited people who refused to join the visible church—because refusing membership was most likely a sign that you were not elect. And Hell as a literal eternal fiery pit is a pretty powerful motivator.) Good works, to the Calvinist, are seen as a sign of being elect. Oddly enough, they become massively important for that reason, because they serve as the only outer barometer of being elect. If you claim Christianity and run a charity, take care of your kids, go to church, and dress modestly, you’re probably elect. If you claim Christianity but have an addiction, don’t go to church, or have sex outside of marriage, you might be unregenerate (in certain people’s eyes). Instead of seeing hurting people as brothers and sisters, this kind of Calvinist sees them as either unregenerate or as sinners not yet filled with the Holy Spirit. As I said before, this is how Calvinism was for me, and my birth family, and my church. It was an ugly, ugly system full of arrogance and othering and guilt and doubt and fear. If you have questions, feel free to ask. I realize I’ve written a novel here, and it still doesn’t cover more than the surface of this issue!
  3. Lisafer


    Hi everyone, and thanks so much for welcoming me into the Free Jinger community! I'm very excited to be here. Please pardon any glitches with my new blog, since I'm just learning. To introduce myself: I was born into a large family, and homeschooled all the way through high school. My parents were from fairly normal American middle-class backgrounds, not fundie at all, but over time they became absolutely entrenched in the Christian fundamentalist way of thinking. We attended church services at a Reformed Presbyterian church (RPCNA) for almost my entire childhood, after my parents left a more mainstream denomination. I'm going to use fake names in this blog, if I have to use names, as my siblings did not ask to be part of my story. I might change a few minor details as well, to keep certain people's privacy. Not that any of you would know us! We were very small fish in the pond, and my parents' attempts to indoctrinate us failed miserably for the most part. We are a family of stubborn, determined people, and by our late teens most of us were most determinedly going our own way. But I think that all of us, in different ways, were hurt by the attitudes and doctrines of fundamentalism. I, personally, was extremely hurt. I have had multiple counselors to work through years of guilt and fear induced by black-and-white doctrines and controlling personalities. I have mental illness, which was exacerbated by my upbringing. And I want to write about what I went through. It helps me process, and maybe it will help somebody else too.
  4. Lisafer


    Since today is Sunday, I thought I'd make my first real blog post about Sabbath observance in my family of origin. I wrote this a couple months ago, and was waiting for an opportunity to share it with others. Enjoy! Or be appalled...whichever. In Christian circles, there’s a range of views on the Sabbath and how it is to be observed. Most Protestants agree that the Sabbath is on Sunday, based on the New Testament description of Jesus rising on the first day of the week and Acts 20, verse 7: “And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples were come together to break bread, Paul preached unto them.” (KJV of course!) To celebrate the Sabbath on any other day could be perceived as a denial of the Resurrection. Reformed Presbyterians, such as I was, proclaim their freedom from the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament. They chow down on ham, bacon, and shellfish, wear mixed fibers, shave their beards, and shake hands with menstruating women. But somehow they think the commandment, “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy,” is still in force and now refers to keeping Sunday holy as a day of rest. There’s really only a very shaky basis for that in the New Testament books of the Bible. Sure, according to Acts, Paul preached on a Sunday, but there’s no indication that the Gentile believers felt bound by any legalities of the Jewish religion. None. But Reformed Presbyterians can be very…very…fond of rules and legalities. Really, it might be easier for them to follow all the laws of the Pentateuch, rather than trying to make distinctions. For most of evangelical Christendom, keeping the Sabbath holy would probably mean showing up for church on Sunday. No fuss, no muss, and out by noon to make it to Applebee’s. If you’re Reformed Presbyterian, though, attending church is only the first step into a legalistic quicksand. This is an area where it’s definitely hard to find any consistency of practice, even in the tiny denomination I grew up in. Some people are hardliners (even cooking meals the day before to avoid excessive work on the sabbath) some are middle ground (reading secular novels and watching Netflix is allowed) and some people are so lax that they even go out to eat at restaurants, committing the double sin of violating the sabbath and causing others to violate it as well (those poor cooks at Mickey D’s!). Working at a job is very much frowned upon unless it is perceived as necessary, like nursing, emergency services, etc. To a well-balanced person, this probably sounds like a lot of fuss over a trivial matter. But when you’re a Biblical literalist and come across Numbers 15:32-36, a horrifying story about a man being stoned to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath, you are bound to interpret Sabbath-breaking as a very serious matter. If God killed someone for picking up sticks, and God is still the same today, then the slightest infraction of the rules means that you are deserving of the same death. I cannot stress enough that I am not kidding here. Any thought, any action that violates the Sabbath is deserving of death by stoning. That is what I was taught, and that is what I believed. But the Reformed Presbyterians don’t want to end up on the news. They won't stone you literally, only figuratively. As long as you realize how worthy of death you are, and are seized with crippling anxiety as a result, they’ve done their job. So how could I break the Sabbath? Let me count the ways, as a child of parents who took everything, including Sabbath-keeping, to painful extremes. Also as a child with untreated and undiagnosed obsessive-compulsive disorder and anxiety. Sunday dawns, and I rise from bed. I do not perform my normal exercise routine: that, of course, would be sacrilegious. Going for a walk might be permitted later, as long as it’s kept to a gentle pace and a reverential attitude. Thank God for hot showers. At least in my family of origin, we were permitted to shower. Nobody wants a houseful of stinky people, not even Jesus. He was grateful for the prostitute that poured incense on him, wasn’t he? I’ve heard and read plenty of debates about the use of electricity on the Sabbath, because somebody is presumably working at the power plant. However, the general consensus is that electricity is necessary to the function of present-day society, so somebody has to work at the power plant. It most likely won’t be a Reformed Presbyterian, though. Breakfast is not fancy, maybe some scrambled eggs, to keep labor minimal. Big involved breakfasts are not for the Sabbath. From breakfast until time to leave for church is about two hours of trying desperately to keep my thoughts focused on what we called “Sunday things.” We weren’t supposed to even think about schoolwork, jobs, hobbies, or, basically, anything fun. God, sin, death, Bible, God, sin, death, Bible. God, sin, death, list of chores…wait, that’s a worldly thought-oh-God-forgive-me-for-that-in-Jesus’-name-amen. God, sin, death, Bible… As a family, we drove quite a ways to church on Sundays (only sinners and misguided people went to the regular local churches). The family van had to be gassed up on Saturday for the trip, because it would be a sin to fill the tank on Sunday morning. That would be unnecessary work, and also involve the sin of buying and selling on the Sabbath, which gets its own special mention in Sabbatarian hell. Many times, the drive to church included memorizing the Westminster Shorter Catechism, which is second only to the Bible among Reformed Presbyterians. It's a screed more dry than sawdust, but at least the questions provided a distraction from trying to shut off all non-Sabbath-related thoughts. Yes, it was like trying not to think of a pink elephant! Church was the main event of the day, of course. I don’t need to get into the routines of that here: the music was the Psalms of David, there was no accompaniment and we sucked at singing; the prayers were long, the sermons Calvinistic to the core. There was no excitement or running up and down the aisles shouting “Hallelujah!” As they say, you know you’re a Presbyterian when the preacher says something you agree with and you smile as loudly as you can. We were the Frozen Chosen. After church came the potluck dinner: everyone brought food (prepared the day before, of course) and the congregants shared a meal. This was usually the best part of the day, because for some reason you were allowed to think about food. Not too much, or you’d make an idol of it (ha! like Pepsi!), but at least you were allowed to enjoy lasagna and jello cake. Cue the Bible verse about Jesus plucking grain to eat on the Sabbath, blah, blah…Of course there were quaverings of unease even about the meal. Were we putting too much work into setting up tables and preparing food? Were people spending too much time chatting about worldly things? Were the children playing tag outside instead of walking quietly? Once the meal was concluded and we went home, the rest of the day stretched out gray and bleak. Catechism questions, Bible reading, sermons on audiocassette, a small supper, Psalm-singing in the evening (since it wasn’t public worship, my mother played the piano for that, thank heaven). We had a collection of books determined to be worthy of Sunday reading, so we read those over and over. I kid you not, some of them were republished tracts from the 19th century. Small children were not allowed to play with toys, except for the Noah’s Ark with its little plastic animals. Sometimes I could sneak a nap in, always with guilt about how I was using the Lord’s Day for sleeping. And most of us went to bed as soon as possible so we could end the misery. I used to get horribly depressed on Saturdays, knowing that Sunday was coming. That one day felt as long as the rest of the week put together. My OCD made it worse. OCD by its nature focuses on a source of anxiety, and my Sabbath anxiety was fear of sinning by thinking about secular things. I spent a lot of Sabbaths mentally chanting prayers for forgiveness every few minutes. If this sounds miserable, believe me, it was. The restrictions on what could be done on the Sabbath would have been bad enough without the sheer torture of trying to control every single thought that crossed your mind. Instead of being a day of rest, it became the most labor-intensive, mind-fucked day of the week. And they told me that Heaven would be one long, everlasting Sabbath.
  5. Awhile back, I mentioned making a thread about ATI beliefs vs VF beliefs. I know it's been a few weeks and I'm sorry - I got swamped with my final paper for my class (which I got a B in!), I got seriously ill, my doctor changed my anti depressant and I'm still adjusting, etc. I'm now able to make the post and point out some of the theological differences. Again, I am so sorry it took so long. ATI is Calvinist in belief. To put it simply, here are some basics on Calvinism. I'm pretty well-versed in it, as a common debate at my old school was Calvinism vs Arminianism. Calvin can best be summed up in the "Calvin's Tulip". There is much more to it, of course (which I can expand on if people have questions) but it gives it a simple summary. Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin) Unconditional Election Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement) Irresistible Grace Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved) (http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm) So, these are the basics of Calvinism. You can also read more here: http://www.thecaveonline.com/APEH/calvinTULIP.html Which explains it far better than I could in my slightly groggy, drug-changing state. VF, on the other hand, is Baptist. Which, here is a link: http://www.wordmp3.com/files/gs/einwechter.htm So, how are they the same? How do they differ? Glad you asked! These links sum it up well! http://www.baptistpillar.com/article_166.html http://www.biblebelievers.net/calvinism/kjcalvn1.htm I apologize for the massive amount of links, but I figured I should cite my sources. And anyone who wants to read more about how Calvinism and Baptism differ and are similar. I can answer questions or provide more links if anyone wants more reading than the massive amount here, but, I hope this helps answer some questions!
  6. It's pretty in vogue for fundie families who grew up Baptist to transition into Calvinism. I've seen it a million times and I really don't understand what makes it so cool as it makes no sense. I guess it appeals to elitism. Jessa grew up Gothard/IFB now she and Ben will be "reformed". She's pretty lucky, she gets to side hug with a cool reformed guy. Enjoy? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pBfrmX-9Jd0
  7. http://wonkette.com/587678/sundays-with-the-christianists-heres-a-delightful-childrens-book-about-hell Not broken because wonkette. INTERESTING art---who wants to see about submitting this for a Caldecott? A stirring message, with plenty of suspense! Poetry that would inspire Grifter John Shrader! Oh, noooooo. I can't set you guys up for that. Here, you'll need this if you hit the site:
  8. debrand

    Was John Calvin Gay?

    I like to check the Puritan Forum because those guys and gals are sometimes a little crazy. Imagine my surprise when I found this question and not any answers that denied the charge The respondents don't really give any reason why it isn't true just that it isn't true. One person said that Calvin was convicted at 18 before he was a believer. Is that true? I don't want to have to wade into blogs debating back and forth the truth or falseness of the allegations. Have any of you heard about these accusations and are they true? If it isn't true, the people on the Puritan Board do not do a good job of defending John Calvin. puritanboard.com/f134/john-calvin-homosexual-71341/
  9. I listened to that sermon that Lori Alexander the Monster posted the other day from John MacArthur. What I learned: 1. Feminism is satanic. 2. If you have a problem with his teaching, you're on satan's side. (This is nearly a direct quote) 3. "Old" means after age 60. 4. After age 60, women have no desire for sex ever. 5. Because they have no desire for sex ever again, widows over 60 should not remarry. This guy isn't as overtly stupid as PP and he doesn't appear certifiable like Stevie, but damn. He might be more dangerous because of his subtlety as compared to the overt crazies.
  10. debrand

    Carolyn Mahaney

    This is a depressing quote. I realize that the family are Calvinist but this sounds extreme and sad. thewartburgwatch.com/2012/02/20/the-mahaney-girls-on-the-topic-of-sin/ I hesitate to ask what kids-even teenagers- could be doing that would cause their mother to have to spend so much time working on her children's faults. It sounds horrible. Does this mean that she kept her kids up late working on their 'sins' or did she stay up late and tell them about her sacrifice in the morning? I love my kids because they are my kids, not inspite of their faults. Like their father and me, they have faults. Those faults have no influence on my love for them.
  11. clarinetpower

    Calvinists and Catholics: Fight!

    It all starts on a pro life FB page. Then the Calvinists start baiting the Catholics. https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php? ... 5711376046 The Catholics reply. patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat/2013/01/abolish-human-abortion-crazy-jack-chick-scary-anti-catholic.html The Calvinists have word diarrhea. THIS IS THE BEST PART YOU GUYS. blog.abolishhumanabortion.com/2013/01/an-open-letter-to-pro-life-roman.html The Catholics reply. phatmass.com/phorum/topic/126510-abolish-human-abortion-is-virulently-anti-catholic/ And reply. patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat/2013/01/where-i-take-far-too-much-delight-in-responding-to-the-anti-catholic-group-abolish-human-abortion.html And reply. a-star-of-hope.blogspot.com/2013/01/abolish-human-abortion-and-anti.html Then the Calvinists come to play in the comment section. a-star-of-hope.blogspot.com/2013/01/abolish-human-abortion-and-anti.html It's not the Sharks and the Jets, but it's pretty close. FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! Now I believe the Calvinist is sitting in her hidey hole cursing the stupid Catholics, and the Catholics are sitting in their lofty perches cursing the stupid Calvinist. Sigh. I was hoping for at least one musical number.
  12. gingernut

    Calvin's Birthday

    Well, today is John Calvin's birthday. (barf) Do any fundies in the blogosphere have tributes to him today?
  13. So those crazy Calvinists are now posting clever little lists about why lesser Christions should not join a reformed church. The smugness, it burns. http://reformedbaptistfellowship.org/20 ... st-church/
  14. Just wondering, as I am fascinated by the concept of predestination.
  15. Soldier of the One

    Calvinism, the Elect and the Unsaved

    Hi FJ-gang, I have only a rudimentary knowledge of Calvinism and was wondering if someone can educate this Jew. So, a few questions - How does the concept of 'the Elect' function in Calvinism? - Is my understanding correct that Calvinists reach out less to the 'unsaved' than non-Calvinist (Orthodox) Christians? - What is the relationship between 'grace' and 'works'? - Why is there such a focus on issues of sexual purity and far less of a focus of issues of social justice? (Which was a primary message of Jesus) Thanks!
  16. I have a few questions for those who grew up IFB, or are still IFB, about your church(es) and Calvinism. I grew up in a pretty fundie IFBC that was split between Calvinists and Arminians. I would NOT call my former church fundie-lite, although some of the families (as was mine) were, albeit very covertly, but it wasn't full on hard core fundie like some of the other churches written about here. I wrote about one of my "favorite" examples of humiliation/torture I was put through in another forum, but briefly here that is- let me set the stage- I was a gawky 13 year old, just on the verge of turning "pretty," but I was still looking awkward and had not quite grown into my looks yet. It was Valentine's Day and it fell on a Sunday so I decided to wear a red dress that I'd (okay, my fundie mom) bought for the occasion. It was practically a frumper, came down almost to my ankles, didn't cling to my body, and it was the exact opposite of anything remotely immodest and I wore a white turtle neck underneath. So that's the kinda environment I was in. Now the weird thing about my IFB is that there was a 50-50% split between the Arminians and the Calvinists. The entire youth program leadership was Calvinist and the regular leadership were somewhere between 3-5 point Calvinists with the most "iffy" point being Limited Atonement (meaning Jesus only died for the sins of the elect and not for the sins for the world). But, with the exception of the youth group leaders who worked with kids ages 12-18, and who tried to indoctrinate the hell out of us with TULIP, Calvinism and it's tenants were never discussed unless a person specifically brought up in a one-on-one kinda setting. There were never any sermons given, not even one, that would have hinted or let any visitors know that lurking underneath the surface was a full fledged belief in the tenants of Calvinism. My IFB was all about "soul winning," "alter calls," missionaries, littering Bible tracts on Halloween, and including personalized notes on how to get "saved" in their monetary tips to waitresses at restaurants. So when I was first taught about Calvinism it completely screwed up my faith and started a many years long spiral into, what I now call, my religious pit of depression. My complete indoctrination of everything my church believed made it seem impossible for me to still be Christian yet somehow reject TULIP. If I rejected TULIP than I was rejecting the Bible and that meant fiery pits of hell. It took me years and then some plus a lot of researching to unravel the knots of damage that caused. Calvinism completely screwed up my faith and to be able to salvage it all, I did a lot of studying so that I can figure out what I actually believed and not what I was indoctrinated to believe. And here's where my real question(s) come into play: Did/Does anyone who was/is part of an IFBC ever go to one who that was also Calvinistic? Or like in my case, not so much "teach" it, but wholeheartedly believe it? And if so, how did that work out for you and were you able to reconcile it? In my church, many of the older members were full on Arminians, didn't want any part of Calvin and it was the younger members who had embraced it- although more quietly. The two factions were able to coexist as long as it remained relegated to the youth group and to yourself. Did this happen in any other churches? Sometimes I really wonder how I happened to be raised in the seemingly only Calvinist believing IFBC. Please tell me there are more of you! I am no longer part of an IFB church and I'm full on Arminian, probably to the point being the almost "heretical" semi-pelagian. I have a real love for CS Lewis' the Last Battle and believe (or want to believe more than anything, or as least as much as I've been able to unindoctrinate myself) that that's how it really is. For those who don't know, Emeth represents those who worship false gods and Aslan is the "real" deal. Emeth says, "Surely this is the hour of death, for the Lion (who is worthy of all honour) will know that I have served Tash all my days and not him. Nevertheless, it is better to see the Lion and die than to be Tisroc of the world and live and not to have seen him." But Aslan tells him "I take to me the services which thou hast done to Tash. For I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him." Basically, in the end, the only thing that matters is that you spend your life seeking truth and good. (I love how how hard core fundies love love love CS Lewis but pretend like this book, or at least this part doesn't exist!)
  17. OnceModestTwiceShy

    Calvinism "more scholarly"?

    The recent discussions on Calvinism vs. Arminianism got me thinking. It seems to be that on the many (fundie and non-fundie) Christian websites I have read trying to understand the difference between the two, there is always a reference to Calvinism being the "intellectual" or "scholarly" approach, or that it constitutes a more "sophisticated" theology. This also seems to be the sentiment of Vision Forum - is it just because they are attracted to the idea of being part of the elect, and thus conclude that Calvinism must necessarily be the more sophisticated approach, or do they argue that Calvinism is more logical or demonstrable? IS this association actually a "thing", or am I misinterpreting it? I personally don't see either one as being more or less sophisticated (whatever that means) in and of themselves; at the same time it always seemed to me (as an outsider to Christianity) that Calvinism WAS more logical, at least in the sense that it seems to be the logical conclusion of the presupposition that goes it omnipotent and all-powerful. I hope my question makes sense - and I apologize if I inadvertently said something grossly inaccurate.
  18. debrand

    Calvinism And Fundies

    I have noticed that many of our fundies have Calvinist leanings. Even Westboro Baptist Church has been described as practicing hyper Calvinism. Because I've known Calvinist in real life who were reasonable people, I am curious about the connection with Calvinism and fundamentalism. Ray Comfort has been described as following Calvinism. The folks at Vision Forum are admirers of John Calvin. I don't think that Michael and Debbi Pearl are Calvinist so I don't want it to sound as if I think that all fundamentalists share the same beliefs. Do any of you have any idea why Calvinism would be so popular with some Fundamentalists?
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