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  1. Remember HQ in Oak Brook? Didn't ATI/IBLP Bill Gothard own some of the homes behind the HQ? A couple more have gone on the market (Per zillow, take it with a grain of salt). Does anyone know which houses they owned back there? https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/house_type/5d38f5602cX1-CR1vr70a5y44k31_17cld3_crid/3-_beds/1.0-_baths/123000-_price/453-_mp/41.849712,-87.917018,41.797648,-88.007998_rect/X1-SS1c95xcy0yn6rv_4rdd9_sse/0_mmm/
  2. This AMA is the best I’ve ever seen on ATI. She talks about the courtship market and how marriages are arranged, refers to ATI as a ‘rape cult’ and how many families (spoiler: all) have sexual abuse taking place, talks about how Hobby Lobby gave Gothard the Big Sandy property, how she speculates that ALERT is the equivalent of the FLDS booting young men to minimize competition for predators, and so many other interesting points and ideas which have shocked me, and I have followed ATI since the early 2000s. Worth reading every bit of the thread, as a lot if revealed in follow up answers as well.
  3. I did not really know much at all about Bill Gothard until I dated an IBLP homeschooler in 2016. I found it odd that she randomly lived in Oklahoma City away from her family for about 6 months, and she never told me why, but that she worked at a motel. I was thinking "Why not work at a motel back home if you love motels so much?" but always wondered if maybe Bill Gothard has some sort of concentration camp that she was sent to in Oklahoma City?
  4. http://www.discoveringgrace.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/For-those-who-have-ears-to-hear.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2B0wosVngCcYT5yzs_w7zAvPq25ZUeX5bNF1CyM8u-canJxzGWA3FHfig I always feel I must point out that BG himself admitted to inappropriate touching: "My actions of holding of hands, hugs, touching of feet or hair with young ladies crossed the boundaries of discretion and were wrong. They demonstrated a double-standard and violated a trust." The writer of the above letter can protest all they want but Bill Gothard admitted that he crossed the line. The claim that he has been exonerated legally is also eye-bulgingly inaccurate. The judge made sure that the victims could re-take up their case once they had the funds to continue if they chose. I also have to laugh that the author thinks that the board doesn't understand how a board works-- that they are answerable to Gothard as owner of IBLP. That's not how a board works- I think it is you who doesn't understand.
  5. I was torn between Quiver Full of Snark or QFO Politics. Mods, feel free to move. Mark Meuser, a graduate of Oak Brook School of Law, is the leading Republican candidate for Secretary of State. He seems to be fixated on voting reform and buys into a whole bunch of Alex Jones conspiracy stuff about L.A. county having 144% of their adult population registered to vote. He also has long rambling, grammatically challenged statements and a soupcon or racism. What hath the GOP wrought? http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversation/sd-california-more-voters-than-eligible-adults-claim-20170809-htmlstory.html
  6. There are a few things in this article, but the first part is about the crewmembers that filmed the Duggars and also several others who have escaped IBLP. It specifically talks about how sheltered the Duggars are and how unworldly. I feel so bad for the children being raised in that environment.
  7. So I dug through the Wayback machine and finally found the old Bates blog. We have looked before and I'm not sure why we weren't able to find it. Wow, what a difference! One of the biggest things that stands out is that in the picture on top, Kelly is never holding a baby or even standing near a baby. They also bring up ATI and IBLP a lot. Here are some of the Bates going to Romania with Gothard to try to save Gypsies. And there are some super awkward Zack's courtship pictures. Poor girl was clearly never really into him. https://web.archive.org/web/20111206095054/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog This link tells how they gave Judson that name because they want him to be a soldier for Christ. The link also tells how the older partners(that was their word for buddy) were busy now, so she, at 10, "volunteered" to bathe, dress, and care for the small children. Here are the Bates "recipes" that make Tater Tot Casserole sound good. Pour canned beans over bread, put a sliced hot-dog on it and sprinkle on some cheese. Put a scoop of mashed potatoes on a slice of bologna and sprinkle on some cheese. https://web.archive.org/web/20101112160342/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog Zach goes to give a talk for IBLP and then Gil preaches about how rejection is conquered by realizing you have gifts. https://web.archive.org/web/20101221071610/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog/ Gil teaching at ATI's yearly conference. They don't even try to call it a "Family Conference". https://web.archive.org/web/20110620171906/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog Zach proposing a courtship. https://web.archive.org/web/20110710082032/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog Gil and Kelly drag a baby around the Grand Canyon with no hat and in only a onesie. Their poor parenting skills were discussed by Free Jinger at the time. https://web.archive.org/web/20110721000848/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog/ Carlin Josie and Katie doubt their salvation and get saved again. https://web.archive.org/web/20110817061300/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog/ They spend Valentine's day at IBLP headquarters. https://web.archive.org/web/20110220203649/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog Trace gets convicted of sin and is saved https://web.archive.org/web/20110220203649/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog They campaign for Rick Santorum.
  8. Also, allegations of sex trafficking cover-up. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/01/06/new-charges-allege-religious-leader-who-has-ties-to-the-duggars-sexually-abused-women/
  9. Discovering Grace is a website set up by Gothard supporters to try and make him look like he isn't a creepy sexual predator. They aren't doing a great job at that. I haven't read around it too much because my blood pressure can only take so much Gothard worship, but someone left a comment asking why Gothard focused on surrounding himself with teen girls. The moderator(who I'm pretty sure in the infamous Alfred) said that Gothard had a special calling to encourage young girls to be "mighty in spirit". When asked why he didn't do this for all teen girls, just the very pretty ones who were Gothard's "type", the moderator gave this reply: See, the devil sure spends extra time on the pretty ones, because he gets so much more mileage out of time invested in them than in the unattractive ones. The movie stars, the athletes . . . the just “gorgeous” ones. People instinctively like them and follow them. Argue all you want about what should be . . . can you tell me I am wrong? So . . . why in the world would Bill not spend more time on them as well, for the same reasons? And why did Gothard single out these pretty teens and tell them exactly how to dress? Not because he is a creepy pervert but because: gave focused advice to “Sammy” on how to dress, carry herself, speak, all with the purpose so she could make a great impression on others, especially her future husband and his family and friends. Ordered her women’s magazines toward that end. Fictional . . . but . . . apparently considered quite normal, OK, given the overwhelming popularity of the novel. Do you really think that is bad Well, wouldn't it make more sense for him to get a woman to do this? Wouldn't a woman have better idea on how to do this instead of an elderly man? When questioned even more about this, the moderator sticks with defending Gothard surrounding himself with pretty teen girls because God has destined them for greatness and they need Gothard to help defend them from Satan. The ugly ones like me, didn't. We weren't destined for much, apparently. http://www.discoveringgrace.com/2015/11/22/shepherd-of-the-hills/#comment-555 I didn't even really read their articles, the comments are the best part.
  10. From his facebook page: The comment section identifies the "first woman senator" as coming from Ethiopia. I looked it up, it appears to be one Marta Gabre-Tsadick. Can anyone verify this info and that she was actually in the US this august?
  11. It's about time. recoveringgrace.org/2015/10/negligence-lawsuit-filed-against-iblp/ Mods, how do we break links in the new format? Removing the front portion doesnt break the link like it used to.
  12. Curious

    The IBLP Lawsuit

    If you have spent any time on Free Jinger, you will likely recognize the acronyms ATI and IBLP. This is the fundamentalist ministry created by Bill Gothard, an unmarried man who believes such things as: There has long been talk about both Bill Gothard and his brother committing acts of sexual misconduct with female employees and interns. As long ago as 1980, Gothard admitted to "moral failures" with some of the staff. We at FJ have long awaited some kind of action to be taken against this unmarried man who had unlimited access to vulnerable women who are taught from birth that if a man "stumbles" it is the woman's fault. On around October 21, 2015, we became aware that a civil lawsuit had finally been filed against IBLP and all the members of the Board. Bill Gothard is no longer part of the organization, having been forced to resign after another round of accusations in 2014. The board members named in the lawsuit are: John Stancil, Anthony Burrus, Gil Bates, Timothy Levendusky, Charles Stephen Paine, Jr., and David York. From Recovering Grace: The Complain in it's entirety can be found at the Chicago Tribune Each of the 5 Plaintiffs are asking for $50,000. Once a leader in the homeschooling movement, Gothard's ministry has managed to largely fly under the radar of the general public, despite having some rather high profile adherents. Recently, Rep. Daniel Webster (R -FL) was considering a run for Speaker of the House, following John Boehner's resignation. Arguably the most famous followers are The Duggar family of TLC's 19 Kids and Counting, which was cancelled after several scandals related to the oldest Duggar child, Josh. In May, 2015, In Touch magazine dropped the bombshell that when Josh Duggar was a teenager he sexually abused at least 5 girls, including several of his siblings. In August, it was revealed that Josh had not one, but two accounts at Ashley Madison, a website which has the tagline "Life is short. Have an affair." For some 10 seasons, the Duggars have been promoted by TLC as a (very) large, happy Christian family. They have shown the Duggars on the campaign trail for politicians such a Mike Huckabee and RIck Santorum. While claiming to be a shiny, happy Christian family, the Duggars have spoken out against the gay community and abortion. Josh was hired by the Family Research Council and moved to Washington, DC, which was also documented on 19 Kids and Counting. Recently, Gothard and his ministry have gotten more mainstream attention thanks to Josh Duggars misconduct and hypocrisy coming to light. While the Duggar family show, 19 Kids and Counting was cancelled by TLC, they have recently announced that they plan to do several "special episodes" of a show starring the newly married Duggar children, Jill Dillard and Jessa Sewald. What some people may not know is that another high profile Gothard adherent also has a TV show. Gil Bates and his family have a show titled Bringing Up Bates on the UP network. The Bateses are often seen as a less strict, more fun version of the Duggars. They also have 19 kids and in the last several years have married off 4 children, some of which were shown on either 19 Kids and Counting or Bringing up Bates. In fact, one of the Bates children married the son of Rep. Daniel Webster (R-FL) You might recognize the name Gil Bates from earlier in this post. That's right, he is a member of the Board of IBLP and was named in the lawsuit. The general public may have the Duggar's number thanks to Josh, but there is still a high profile IBLP member that has a platform to show off these dangerous beliefs on TV and he seems to be slipping under the radar, just like the Duggars did for many years. Please join us for discussion here: http://www.freejinger.org/topic/24484-negligence-lawsuit-filed-against-iblp/#top Further reading: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/10/22/five-women-sue-bill-gothards-ministry-that-has-ties-to-the-duggars/ http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/10/23/fundamentalist_duggar_connected_ministry_is_sued_for_sex_abuse_cover_up.html http://www.salon.com/2015/10/23/the_cult_of_duggar_worship_must_be_stopped_theres_nothing_glamorous_about_the_familys_ongoing_hypocrisy/
  13. Bill Gothard thanks everyone for their support during his trials yall! In the comments, people falling over themselves to tell him how much he has blessed them. A troll appears using the same name and profile photo as Bill Gothard (but clicking on his name shows its a different page with only 2 friends). The sheeple do not realize its a troll apparently. My personal favorite is the *minions comment https://www.facebook.com/official.BillG ... 86?fref=nf
  14. GenerationCedarchip

    Gothard is back

    I saw a story on WORLD news mentioning that BIll Gothard has relaunched his website. And sure enough, he's back! The website (billgothard.com) has a section called "A Further Statement" where he tries to defend himself against accusations that he harassed women at IBLP. It's full of purple prose, and protestations that some of the women accusing him had also written him testimonials, etc... My family was never in ATI so I look at this as something of an outsider, but I've known folks who were into his teachings.
  15. I'm not sure how to break links or whatever, but apparently David Locke Gothard is under investigation and gong to appear in court on grounds of bilking millions of dollars out of investors in Florida. Like to the tune of $5,000,000. If you google it, several articles related to the case come up. He is in serious trouble. So, how many more crooks named Gothard are there???
  16. So I'm reading The Rogue by Joe McGinnis (sorry, it's on my Kindle, so I don't have page numbers). A lot of criticism surrounded his book because he moved in next door to Sarah Palin on Lake Lucille, which he addresses. Joe McGinnis has been a favorite of mine for as long as I can remember because he wrote 'Fatal Vision' and I'm a super true-crime buff -- and growing up near Ft. Bragg and having my dad stationed there a few years after the murders of Collette, Kimberley, and Kristen MacDonald, it was talked about quite a lot during my childhood. I have actual pictures of the home from circa 2005 before it was torn down completely. Hey, I had a friend who was stationed there, sue me.) Anyway, I get to this little passage in the book and I'm floored. I know we covered Sarah Palin a lot of the yuku board, but she's kind of fallen off of the map as of late. However, this is what's in the book that I wanted to share: In April 2000, at city expense, she traveled to Indianapolis to attend a conference at the International Training Center of the evangelical Institute in Basic Life Principles (ILBP). The conference had been organized by the INternational Associateion of Character Cities (IACC), an affiliate of the Character Training Institute (CTI), an organization that sought to end the seperation of church and state. Among the speakers she heard was seventy year old evangelist Bill Gothard, who had founded ILBP, according to the organizations website, "for the purpose of giving individials, families, churches, schools, communities, governments, and businesses clear instruction and training of how to find success by following God's principles found in Scripture." Gothard's goal, as described by Silja J. ATalvi in 'In These Times' magazine, was to "rebuild American society according to biblical mandates." He believed that America's failures stemmed from a lack of personal character, which led to acts of disobedience against "God-ordained jurisdiction" represented by four types of authority: "parents, government, church leaders, and employers." ILBP literature distributed at the conference said, "God gives direction, protection, and provision through human authorities. If we rebel against them, we expose ourselves to destruction by evil principalities...This is why 'rebellion is the sin of witchcraft.'" ..... The Character Training Institute sought to instill civil institutions with forty-nine biblically based "character qualities," which it conveniently listed and defined on laminated, pocket size cards that also used pictures of the animal that represented each trait. For example, "Obedience: Quickly and cheerfully carrying out the direction of those who are responsible for me," was accompanied by anliiustration of a mother duck and her ducklings. ... Sarah also watched a video presentation by David Barton, an evangelical minister who served as the cochair to the Texas republican Party and who had founded WallBuilders, an organization that emphasized the "moral, religious, constitutional foundation on which America was built." In his talk, Barton proclaimed that the United States had been founded as an explicitly Christian nation and that continued seperation of church and state in America was an affront to the Lord. At the confrence, Sarah learned that Wasilla could become a designated "City of Character" if the city council passed a resolution pledging to uphold each of the forty-nine "character qualities" specified by the IBLP. She returned home enthused, and in short order a pliant city counsil approved her plan to declare Wasilla a City of Character. It became the only such city in Alaska.
  17. Or maybe not. homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/06/03/bill-gothards-unveils-new-statement-then-promptly-deletes-it/
  18. This is an old RG article but I can't find that it has been discussed here. RG and another website called on the IBLP BoD to evaluate the Institute's teachings that have caused so much harm. Of course they refused to respond but Bill responded for them because nothing says "I'm totally not in control of this ministry anymore" like answering for the BoD. Bill writes a letter trying to weasel out of taking responsibility for the things he taught and RG responds by using his own words against him. It does not seem like Bill has responded to their response. And the board, obviously has never given any sort of response even though they have been made very much aware that RG wants their reply and not just Bill's. .recoveringgrace.org/2014/12/waiting-on-theological-clarification-from-iblp/ On circumcision: Bill: Circumcision is not a moral requirement for Christians. RG: This issue was point 9 in the 2002 arbitration meeting. The Basic Care Bulletin 11- How to Make a Wise Decision on Circumcision states: "Because this is one subject which is so strongly commended and reinforced in Scripture, there is no question what the decision of Christian parents should be on this matter. It is important to note that circumcision was established before the Law was given. Circumcision goes back to the obedience of Abraham. Thus, those who would seek to dismiss circumcision with the Law would have no Scriptural basis to do so. According to this circumcision is non-optional for a Christian parent and those who might think about choosing against it "have no Scriptural basis to do so.." The booklet goes on to outline "The Basic Elements of a Scriptural Circumcision Ceremony," which are: "1. Provide a Certificate 2. Schedule the Circumcision 3. Determine the Wisest Procedure 4. Invite Special Witnesses 5. Plan the Ceremony" It moves on to the "Suggested Procedure for a Scriptural Ceremony" which includes "1. Recognize the Guests 2. Tell How Circumcision Began 3. Recognize the Eighth Day 4. Emphasize Moral Purity 5. Explain Heart Circumcision 6. Pray for the Child 7. Sign the Certificate." On if Christians should stick to the OT dietary commands: Bill: The answer is "no." The Levitical dietary commands apply to the law of Moses which was given to the Jewish nation RG: Your clear response of "No" to any requirements or demands of the Law of Moses is most refreshing. However, as it applies to the Law's restrictions in eating pork products, your answer in this this paper is contradictory to a well-known forty year history of your tight restrictions against eating any pork products and your teaching and preventing other believers from eating pork products Bill, would you be willing and so bold as to offer some assistance to the Duggar family (which are close friends of yours) so they can also experience your (new) freedom to eat pork and allow others to do so? On Bill's advice about married sex: Bill: About forty years ago I pointed out some medical benefits of these laws. Since then, I have concluded that it is not my place to tell married couples how to run their marriages. RG: This was point 8 of the issues discussed in the 2002 mediation meeting and the one which most shocked Eric Landry of Modern Reformation Magazine. If IBLP has since abandoned this teaching since 2002 and if this reflects public repentance and retraction of the original teachings and is a following through of point 10 of the agreed upon 11 points of arbitration that is welcome. __ Is this a cosmetic alteration to your previous teachings? or __ Are you repenting and recanting your previous teachings? Bill really seems to have thought that he could get away with pretending he didn't actually teach all these things. Sadly for him he left a 40 year trail that proves he did. I bet he was furious when he read that response.
  19. I read that Bill began his ministry empire by approaching gang members on the street in Chicago. He had great success talking with them and would invite them to some kind of event in a local hall. He says he could turn them around to have a heart for Jesus. So, why wouldn't t Bill with all his supposedly gang success volunteer to help Baltimore at this time?
  20. After reading a couple of blogs of ATI / similar cults survivors and leavers, I wondered if the Duggars have softened with the younger kids in regards of being strict(we know they are not exactly strict on the thriftyness and other topics.) What I was wondering about was there importance for "the happy face" or "good attitude" It seems to be very much existant with the older kids generally, but kids like Jennifer or jordyn are seen with a scowl or indfferent and defo not "good attitude" I wonder if they just let them be(in a certain frame) these days or if it is because ie Jenny is still an unbroken character and the moment that you only see "good attitude" pics of her is the point when she will have been broken.
  21. On SSB a former ATI student shares his experience with Gothard's teachings about how parents should spank their children. Warning, the article is very disturbing. I'm only going to copy the part that explains what Gothard told parents to do when it came to spanking their children. I asked my mother if she had this booklet and she said no, probably because as you get further into ATI you usually buy more of the materials and my parents didn't buy a lot of the stuff they were encouraged to buy. The stipulation was that we had to hold still and submissively accept the beating, and we had to stop crying and be silent and not make a sound. This was a specific part of Gothard's beating protocol, found in one of his pamphlets: the silent, limp submission to a beating was his metric for a "repentant spirit." Yes, this is how Gothard tells parents to spank their children. This is what the author of the blog post has to say for all the people who side with Gothard. This would especially include people like the Bates where Gil and Kelly are not only in a position to know more than most ATI parents, but they could actually do something(but they don't). I'd like to state again for the record that Gothard apologists are remorseless sadists, and this includes that Alfred character who comments on your blog. These people KNOW THAT THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING IN THE IBLP/ATI PROGRAM, AND THEY ARE FINE WITH IT. spiritualsoundingboard.com/2015/03/31/man-shares-personal-testimony-of-how-bill-gothard-used-bible-verses-which-led-to-the-abuse-of-children-part-2/
  22. I am so used to seeing the Duggars attend anti-abortion rallies and liquor license protests as well as making anti-trans robocalls that this took me by complete surprise. From their FB: Of course the Gothard hypocrisy can't help but be noted, but still.
  23. Is the whole family a bunch of rotten apples? http://www.naplesnews.com/news/crime/st ... s_44739110 (didn't break the link because it's a newspaper website)
  24. Just curious, but who would be on the list of the worst of the worst, in the Duggar's social circle? For example, RC Sproul Jr was referenced on the Christian Domestic Discipline thread earlier today, so it made me wonder, is he one of the Duggar's friends? Was he one of the 1000 invited to Jill's wedding? The Pearls? The Andersons? Who are the rubbing elbows with and what makes them a candidate for worst of the worst?
  25. JessaJessa

    This Gothard Fella

    So, totally curious here, how do you guys know so much about this Gothard fella that the Duggars follow? I am fairly new here and have never heard of him before now. I live in a pretty liberal part of CA, so most of the churches are super laid back. I've never heard of a Pastor (or whatever he is) have so many rules for his followers. So for example, how do some of you know that he prefers young women's hair to be long and wavy? Not straight, or curly, but wavy. Did he put out a book of rules or something? Have the Duggars admitted to following this guy? Do all people who attend these conferences like ATI follow Gothard?
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