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  1. TW for molestation, abuse, incest...and everything else horrible that Bill Gothard stands for. Continuing on from here:
  2. It is filled with....such lovely stuff. It's a kinda pretty book. And it won't fall into the wrong (right?) hands at least now. I'm skimming over it to find what sorts of horrors are buried inside, since I've just started.
  3. I was on the website of Telos, the unaccredited "college" run by IBLP and I noticed it says it is closing due to "finanicial stability." http://telos.edu/ It appears to me that IBLP is attempting to rebrand itself and seperate themselves from their Gothard era as much as possible. They have done away with a lot of programs from that time.
  4. Kenneth Dewitt, a former prison chaplain from Arkansas, has been charged with 50 counts of third-degree sexual assault, after three inmates accused him of pressuring them into giving him sexual favors. Dewitt is reportedly a devotee of Gothard and used Basic Life Principles in his prison work. Makes me think of this little ditty from Matthew: Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/prison-chaplain-charged-with-raping-inmates-was-strongly-influenced-by-disgraced-minister-tied-to-duggars/
  5. Mods, please merge if someone has already posted about this. Staddon Family blog announces that IBLP is downsizing & moving from Chicago to Big Sandy. staddonfamily.com/2015/09/14/texas-ho/ The decision has been made. Last week it was officially announced that IBLP will be relocating its headquarters from Chicago to Big Sandy, Texas. The trends over the last 15 years have shown that the ministry has more properties than it currently needs, and after much prayer and consideration it was decided that it would be a financially strategic move to consolidate with the ALERT campus down in Texas. While not unexpected, the move will still be quite a change for all of us. ... God miraculously provided the Oak Brook property for the Institute back in 1969, and since then groups and delegations from all over the world have come seeking practical instruction on how to apply Scriptural principles to every aspect of life. While this brings a chapter of IBLP’s history to a close, the vision of introducing people to Jesus Christ and providing families, churches, businesses, and nations with Biblical training on how to find true success in life remains unchanged. The Lord has worked mightily in the past and we are excited about what He has for the future. We are all one body in Christ (1 Cor. 12), and as each member looks to the Head and follows His leading we know He has great things in store for each one.
  6. This is an old RG article but I can't find that it has been discussed here. RG and another website called on the IBLP BoD to evaluate the Institute's teachings that have caused so much harm. Of course they refused to respond but Bill responded for them because nothing says "I'm totally not in control of this ministry anymore" like answering for the BoD. Bill writes a letter trying to weasel out of taking responsibility for the things he taught and RG responds by using his own words against him. It does not seem like Bill has responded to their response. And the board, obviously has never given any sort of response even though they have been made very much aware that RG wants their reply and not just Bill's. .recoveringgrace.org/2014/12/waiting-on-theological-clarification-from-iblp/ On circumcision: Bill: Circumcision is not a moral requirement for Christians. RG: This issue was point 9 in the 2002 arbitration meeting. The Basic Care Bulletin 11- How to Make a Wise Decision on Circumcision states: "Because this is one subject which is so strongly commended and reinforced in Scripture, there is no question what the decision of Christian parents should be on this matter. It is important to note that circumcision was established before the Law was given. Circumcision goes back to the obedience of Abraham. Thus, those who would seek to dismiss circumcision with the Law would have no Scriptural basis to do so. According to this circumcision is non-optional for a Christian parent and those who might think about choosing against it "have no Scriptural basis to do so.." The booklet goes on to outline "The Basic Elements of a Scriptural Circumcision Ceremony," which are: "1. Provide a Certificate 2. Schedule the Circumcision 3. Determine the Wisest Procedure 4. Invite Special Witnesses 5. Plan the Ceremony" It moves on to the "Suggested Procedure for a Scriptural Ceremony" which includes "1. Recognize the Guests 2. Tell How Circumcision Began 3. Recognize the Eighth Day 4. Emphasize Moral Purity 5. Explain Heart Circumcision 6. Pray for the Child 7. Sign the Certificate." On if Christians should stick to the OT dietary commands: Bill: The answer is "no." The Levitical dietary commands apply to the law of Moses which was given to the Jewish nation RG: Your clear response of "No" to any requirements or demands of the Law of Moses is most refreshing. However, as it applies to the Law's restrictions in eating pork products, your answer in this this paper is contradictory to a well-known forty year history of your tight restrictions against eating any pork products and your teaching and preventing other believers from eating pork products Bill, would you be willing and so bold as to offer some assistance to the Duggar family (which are close friends of yours) so they can also experience your (new) freedom to eat pork and allow others to do so? On Bill's advice about married sex: Bill: About forty years ago I pointed out some medical benefits of these laws. Since then, I have concluded that it is not my place to tell married couples how to run their marriages. RG: This was point 8 of the issues discussed in the 2002 mediation meeting and the one which most shocked Eric Landry of Modern Reformation Magazine. If IBLP has since abandoned this teaching since 2002 and if this reflects public repentance and retraction of the original teachings and is a following through of point 10 of the agreed upon 11 points of arbitration that is welcome. __ Is this a cosmetic alteration to your previous teachings? or __ Are you repenting and recanting your previous teachings? Bill really seems to have thought that he could get away with pretending he didn't actually teach all these things. Sadly for him he left a 40 year trail that proves he did. I bet he was furious when he read that response.
  7. I am so used to seeing the Duggars attend anti-abortion rallies and liquor license protests as well as making anti-trans robocalls that this took me by complete surprise. From their FB: Of course the Gothard hypocrisy can't help but be noted, but still.
  8. So I was wading through Josh and Anna Duggar's instagram friends list the other night (stalkerish, I know) and noticed they have started following a wide range of contemporary christian music artists. For example: Matt Redman, Chris Tomlin, Crowder, Lecrae... While this is no big deal to most people, I know the strict guildelines Gothard commands regarding music evaluation, and these artists do not fit the bill. In fact, Gothardism blatantly condemns contemporary christian music, and suggests that ATI families do not expose their children to it, and do not attend churches where such music is played for worship. They have also started following a wider range of contemporary christian preachers who have a far greater emphasis on grace-based teaching: Luis Giglio, Joyce Meyer, Rick Warren. Of course, they still follow a lot of nut-jobs (eg - ray comfort, creation museum) but these are some serious signs of branching out! And the biggest news of all... wait for it... Josh also follows Jimmy Fallon!!!! Which suggests he watches his TV show!!! That is definitely NOT Duggar-approved viewing. I must say I am surprised he likes Jimmy Fallon enough to actually bother to follow him on instagram, it suggests he must be a proper fan. I can just picture Josh and Anna now sinfully watching his show together on their secret master bedroom TV.
  9. If the Duggar children one day make allegations that they were emotionally abused (or otherwise), would your perspective on their adult lives and decisions change? I'm mainly thinking of Jessa at the moment. When the Duggars were overseas, Jessa quickly figured out how to get the number of train tickets they needed, in spite of Jim Bob's bumbling idiocy before. When they were in England, she was clearly embarrassed by Jim Bob's childish attempts to taunt the guards. And just now I watched a clip of Jessa and Ben sitting on the family bus, being grilled by Jim Bob about their relationship. "Are you lovesick?" JB asks. Jessa says, with a bit of sass, "Do you know what that means?" Given her earlier displays of wit and JB's lack of it, I think Jessa knows that Jim Bob was confusing "lovesick" with "lovestruck.". But JB's response is, "Do you know what it means, Jessa?" He doesn't answer confidently but turns the question back on her and adds the subtle power-move of calling her by name. Jessa appears to backtrack and blunts the 'offensiveness' of her original question by asking, "I don't know. Do you?" to which JB replies, "I dunno, why don't you tell us. Tell the whole world," looking none too impressed -- then tacks on his JB "lovable oaf" smile. Jim Bob has always struck me as a terribly insecure and power-hungry man. He's always beating his own children at games and challenges and dousing his helmet of hair with hairspray, probably reminiscing about all the bad haircuts he had as a kid and repeating silently to his reflection in the mirror, never again! He married Michelle when she was a young girl whose faith was brand new and very impressionable, and probably gets off on being her spiritual leader and the fact that she worships him. Then they had child after child after child, almost as if Jim Bob was trying to prove his virility, his maniless, and make up his own personal army in defense of anyone who ever called him poor or scrappy or stupid when he was a kid. I wonder if JB objects to his children attending college because he's so small and insecure that he'd be threatened if they turned out smarter than him? So if one day some of the adult Duggar children came forward and said, "The way we were raised was really messed up and it was all under our dad's thumb," would your attitudes towards them change? Would the things we see now as totally ridiculous start to make sense?
  10. I've been wondering about this for awhile. On their first date JB took MIchelle to his school dance. And in 14 Children & Preg Again he specifically calls it a dance. So were they ok with dancing at that point? And in their first book they say when Josh was a baby they met homeschoolers and decided to go that route. So when did they make the leap to the IBLP/ATI cult?
  11. Although the Duggars are criticised in the media, they seem to be so good at deflating and deflecting and ignoring criticism. This has meant that the truth about the Duggars being Gothardites etc, has never really hit mainstream media and then exploded into a 'Jon+Kate plus 8' sized scandal. I put this down to their political background. They just answer challenging questions in all the same ways, which is a skill I am sure they learnt from working in politics.
  12. Question for fundie followers - yes, the Duggar family campaigns for conservative candidates, but are fundie women who are ATI/Gothard/formerly VF followers allowed to vote? I'm sure they must discuss their votes with their husbands, fathers, whatever.. but ultimately, are they allowed to enter the voting booth and cast ballots alone, or must they bring a headship or male relative with them into the booth for guidance and oversight? Just wanted to know and can't find anything on the 'net about this. I hope they are allowed to vote alone!
  13. Why do you think Jim Bob and Michelle rarely seem to be challenged on the tough questions about their beliefs and how they have and are raising their kids? Like no higher education and lack of trust in their kids and letting the kids be independant, etc. Yeah, I know the Duggars have given some lip service to the higher ed. question saying that the kids ARE taking college courses online or whatever, but it seems like reporters never investigate if that is true or what the actual courses are and if the kids even have appropriate qualifications to say, go to a college or university if they chose. They never seem to get asked about IBLP or if they do, those asking let them off with vague answers that make it all seem like sunshine and happy bunnies. Why hasn't anyone really looked into the whole ALERT thing that the boys have been sent to... scratched below the surface. Why haven't any reporters grilled them more about limiting their daughter's choices and opportunities and expecting them to have kid after kid and marry guys like Ben who have very little real education and no job and no way to support all those kids. Why does no one ask the hard questions? The ones that might expose the ugly underside of all those beliefs that they put forth as just old fashioned wholesome values that so many buy into? I hope that a lot of these articles coming out lately about ex-IBLP kids and how they feel it was a cult and they were abused, etc. might shine more of a light on the Duggars and the realities of how they are raising their kids and the harm they are doing as parents by not allowing their kids to learn independance or even have their own dreams!
  14. It's nice to see more of the media picking up on the Duggars' true beliefs and agenda behind the "sweet, Godly family" image http://observer.com/2014/12/the-duggars-politics/
  15. grandmadugger

    The Duggar Family A Cult?

    I've always loved reading about various cults because I'm a nerd. Anyway my bedtime reading last night was a breakdown on the steps of what it takes to be a cult. I found it very interesting and while I was reading I started to see the Duggar family. I'm not talking about their religion but the family itself. So the guy broke it down similar to Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs or a pyramid starting at the bottom and working it's way up. The first level is shaming. Due to some sort of shame, real or perceived, they feel like they have to earn acceptance (Michelle). Children are usually trying to earn the affection of their parent because they love is conditional and usually includes shaming and overly strong control of the parents. I think that pretty much hits those kids square on the head. In order to earn God's acceptance they usually go the lazy route by just accepting a spiritual leader than doing any real study for themselves. Legalism is the next level. In this level there is a set of do's and don'ts for the acceptance that they are working for that stems from the shame. He described legalism as an attitude instead of a belief system. The first things to die in this level is jof of life, freedom, and personal relationships (he mentions God but he's approaching it from a religious stand point) Guilt also starts to take over with the feeling they'll be rejected by not living up to the list of dos and don'ts. Spiritual Abuse is the next level. He quoted another article, The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, to define it as "the mistreatment of a person who is in need of help, support, or greater spiritual empowerment, with the result of weakening, undermining, or decreasing that person's spiritual empowerment." (JB anyone?) The last is mind control or brainwashing which is giving his or her will to the control of the leader. I found this all interesting in relation to the family. I could see where you could sub God for JB or Michelle depending on what it was talking about.
  16. JessaJessa

    This Gothard Fella

    So, totally curious here, how do you guys know so much about this Gothard fella that the Duggars follow? I am fairly new here and have never heard of him before now. I live in a pretty liberal part of CA, so most of the churches are super laid back. I've never heard of a Pastor (or whatever he is) have so many rules for his followers. So for example, how do some of you know that he prefers young women's hair to be long and wavy? Not straight, or curly, but wavy. Did he put out a book of rules or something? Have the Duggars admitted to following this guy? Do all people who attend these conferences like ATI follow Gothard?
  17. rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/656002 The article talks about a fundamentalist Christian woman who left her abusive husband, and provides a good overview of the Quiverfull lifestyle for people who aren't obsessed about it (like many of us) She's the creator of No Longer Quivering, which I understand some people on here are not fans of... but I still think this is a good article "At the women’s shelter, I was given a form to complete … I wrote three pages describing the situation in our home, and after reading what I had written, the crisis volunteer said to me, “The judge will not grant you a protection order unless you actually accuse your husband of abuse.†I told her that I didn’t really think my husband was “technically†abusive, and in fact, I had no doubt that he truly loved me and the kids. He always put us first … he basically centered his entire life around us! We were a good Christian family. ...In 2003, we were named “Nebraska Family of the Year†by the Nebraska Family Council"
  18. I feel these past two weddings have demonstrated many things us FJ-ers have brought to lights over the years. Jill and Jessa creating their own wedding styles and life seems to be picking away at the standards demanded by JB and Gothard. I can't imagine JB wanted Ben for Jessa (does not measure up to those courters need to be able to provide for their wives) and Jill marrying a guy she supposedly hadn't met for months, yet fell in love!!! How will he handle the rest of his blessings who have witnessed their older sisters make certain decisions?
  19. I realize that I'm in way too deep when I wake up at 4:30 in the morning and my first thoughts are "why does jim bob stand in front of the church and make such a big to-do about that first kiss and not about the fact that two young people are making a lifetime commitment to one another. It just seems to me that the focus is skewed and priorities are out of order. Since I have joined FreeJinger I have really taken notice of just how immature Jim Bob and Michelle really are. Other husband/wife fundie combos seem to have a power/control aspect but these two have more of at 'teenage quality to their relationship) Yes, they have their finances in order - but it seems that they wholly focus on sex, kissing, blah, blah... what about real preparations and foundations for marriage? What about ensuring two people are truly compatible? I have started to really dig into this whole Bill Gothard ministry thing and the patriarchal legalistic elements. It just seems to me like a bunch of boy-men who think about little more than the physical aspects of a relationship and not what really makes it tick. Annoying. Baseless. Thoughts?
  20. 1st wiccan fundie

    ALERT Purpose

    What is the point of this ALERT Academy? I've looked at the site and several other information sources on it. Clearly, they get some type of outdoor training and rescue service education but, what is the real point? Other than Jesus shit,excuse my language. What are they suppose to do with this? It's not like it will help become a first responder or look good if you were to apply for the military. And I don't think they really explain well enough what it's intended for. Josiah seems to be there all the time! Anyway anyone have any insight on this? Maybe it's just me - though I find it revolting at least Journey of the heart,( to the heart?,) states their purpose rather clear.
  21. You would think that after Michelle herself experienced a breakdown and anger issues when her kids were little and she actually had to look after them herself, she might be inclined to talk to her daughters and advise them about how difficult it is to have so many kids so close together, especially when you don't have live-in helpers to do it for you. They make it look easy on tv but that's because she was lucky enough to have all these girls early on who grew up enough to start taking care of their siblings and as they grew, so did their responsibilities and Michelle's life got easier and easier. But what if her daughters don't have a ton of girls first? What if they have like 8 boys in a row? Does she not worry about them emotionally breaking down? Or maybe she thinks if that she can just send Jana or Jinger or whoever over to help them out...problem solved! It just surprises me that having gone through what many believe was a nervous breakdown herself from being overwhelmed, not to mention anger problems when interacting with the kids, she isn't more compassionate with her daughters. Do you think they really have true relationships with her where they can express their fears and worries and dreams? Is Michelle even capable of that with any of her kids? In many ways they seem to have such superficial relationships.
  22. From Life & Style magazine (tabloid), Oct. 20 issue, page 6 "Duggars Under Fire: Will Fans Desert Them?" ..."It's a side of the fundamentalist Christian family that TLC viewers never see -- and that's intentional. "They don't get to see the real Duggars, because a lot of the fans would likely flee,' an industry insider tells Life & Style. 'If one of them says something too controversial during taping, it gets cut.' Goes on in a not flattering way, and they reprint the pic of the death camp inmates that Jessa posted and part of her quote.
  23. With stories lately of kids from some of the ultra-fundie families escaping to lead their own lives, it makes me wonder how the Duggars have managed to keep all the kids drinking the koolaid. I know they have been sent to Gothard Re-education Camps and stuff if they starting getting even the tiniest bit rebellious, but how is it these other kids have managed to break away? Do the Duggars isolate their kids more than these other families? Are they more restrictive. I know that some families have allowed their kids to attend schools and universities. Is that the reason? That the Duggars never seem to get a chance to meet and talk with anyone who is not of the same ilk? Do other families have "accountability partners" who must be with them all the time the way the Duggars do? Do you think TLC and the money they make from their show has made it harder for the kids to escape? Or do you think it's a blessing because they've been exposed to more through having to create storylines and through stuff like going to talk at schools and book signings? Do you think any of them will ever break away? Or write a tell-all? Do you think the girls, once they are married and out of the house, will be like Jill...continuing to drink the koolaid completely, or will they use the opportunity of some alone time to explore the world a bit? Surf the internet and find out what people are saying about them and what they have been missing, etc.?
  24. Julie Anne at Spiritual Sounding Board reports on what Bill Gothard has been up to. She even spoke with him on the phone twice. spiritualsoundingboard.com/2014/10/12/bill-gothards-new-programministry-total-success-power-teams/ As anyone might imagine, it's the same snake-oil repackaged with a name ripped from the 1980s-era self-help industry.
  25. LogansMama

    IBLP/ATI Question

    So I was wondering about this last night. Can you be a Gothardite without being a homeschooler?? It seems ATI is intrinsically interwoven into the IBLP program. If not, are you pressured to join ATI?