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Showing results for tags 'ati'.
Found 112 results
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Guess what I found thrift-store shopping today? That's right, A GOTHARD BOOK
dawbs posted a topic in Wide World of Snark
It is filled with....such lovely stuff. It's a kinda pretty book. And it won't fall into the wrong (right?) hands at least now. I'm skimming over it to find what sorts of horrors are buried inside, since I've just started. -
Awhile back, I mentioned making a thread about ATI beliefs vs VF beliefs. I know it's been a few weeks and I'm sorry - I got swamped with my final paper for my class (which I got a B in!), I got seriously ill, my doctor changed my anti depressant and I'm still adjusting, etc. I'm now able to make the post and point out some of the theological differences. Again, I am so sorry it took so long. ATI is Calvinist in belief. To put it simply, here are some basics on Calvinism. I'm pretty well-versed in it, as a common debate at my old school was Calvinism vs Arminianism. Calvin can best be summed up in the "Calvin's Tulip". There is much more to it, of course (which I can expand on if people have questions) but it gives it a simple summary. Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin) Unconditional Election Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement) Irresistible Grace Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved) (http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm) So, these are the basics of Calvinism. You can also read more here: http://www.thecaveonline.com/APEH/calvinTULIP.html Which explains it far better than I could in my slightly groggy, drug-changing state. VF, on the other hand, is Baptist. Which, here is a link: http://www.wordmp3.com/files/gs/einwechter.htm So, how are they the same? How do they differ? Glad you asked! These links sum it up well! http://www.baptistpillar.com/article_166.html http://www.biblebelievers.net/calvinism/kjcalvn1.htm I apologize for the massive amount of links, but I figured I should cite my sources. And anyone who wants to read more about how Calvinism and Baptism differ and are similar. I can answer questions or provide more links if anyone wants more reading than the massive amount here, but, I hope this helps answer some questions!
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This was just posted by Buzzfeed. One of the people profiled was raised in ATI.
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Big sandy starts tomorrow! Fj faves lead the way with sessions such as David Waller's "who are you?" and Gil and Kelly bates' "beware of pitching your tent towards sodom". Interesting to see that the duggars are excluded from the schedule entirely but the bates are presenting multiple sessions each day. (And I wonder - are the bates on the schedule that much bc they are popular or bc ati is scraping the bottom of the barrel for speakers?) http://familyconferences.org/events/family-conference/big-sandy-2016/
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Telos (IBLP college) Shutting Down
funyuns_and_fundies posted a topic in ATI/IBLP - Gothardism & Bill Gothard
I was on the website of Telos, the unaccredited "college" run by IBLP and I noticed it says it is closing due to "finanicial stability." http://telos.edu/ It appears to me that IBLP is attempting to rebrand itself and seperate themselves from their Gothard era as much as possible. They have done away with a lot of programs from that time. -
In Australia: IBLP sells; media call a cult a cult
MamaJunebug posted a topic in ATI/IBLP - Gothardism & Bill Gothard
IBLP is selling at least part of its real estate in Oz, and if that isn't good news enough, a newspaper report calls the group a cult, describes the Duggars' show as "canned" (aka "cancelled") and also mentions the peccadilloes of Josh & Mr. G!!! ETAsk, don't need to hide the image? I'm sorry if so! It's bunktime for me *and* my phone, I'm loopy. -
The Bates before they were so shiny and perfect including grifting
formergothardite posted a topic in Quiver Full of Bateseseseses
So I dug through the Wayback machine and finally found the old Bates blog. We have looked before and I'm not sure why we weren't able to find it. Wow, what a difference! One of the biggest things that stands out is that in the picture on top, Kelly is never holding a baby or even standing near a baby. They also bring up ATI and IBLP a lot. Here are some of the Bates going to Romania with Gothard to try to save Gypsies. And there are some super awkward Zack's courtship pictures. Poor girl was clearly never really into him. https://web.archive.org/web/20111206095054/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog This link tells how they gave Judson that name because they want him to be a soldier for Christ. The link also tells how the older partners(that was their word for buddy) were busy now, so she, at 10, "volunteered" to bathe, dress, and care for the small children. Here are the Bates "recipes" that make Tater Tot Casserole sound good. Pour canned beans over bread, put a sliced hot-dog on it and sprinkle on some cheese. Put a scoop of mashed potatoes on a slice of bologna and sprinkle on some cheese. https://web.archive.org/web/20101112160342/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog Zach goes to give a talk for IBLP and then Gil preaches about how rejection is conquered by realizing you have gifts. https://web.archive.org/web/20101221071610/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog/ Gil teaching at ATI's yearly conference. They don't even try to call it a "Family Conference". https://web.archive.org/web/20110620171906/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog Zach proposing a courtship. https://web.archive.org/web/20110710082032/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog Gil and Kelly drag a baby around the Grand Canyon with no hat and in only a onesie. Their poor parenting skills were discussed by Free Jinger at the time. https://web.archive.org/web/20110721000848/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog/ Carlin Josie and Katie doubt their salvation and get saved again. https://web.archive.org/web/20110817061300/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog/ They spend Valentine's day at IBLP headquarters. https://web.archive.org/web/20110220203649/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog Trace gets convicted of sin and is saved https://web.archive.org/web/20110220203649/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog They campaign for Rick Santorum. -
Lessons from the Wisdom Booklets
formergothardite posted a topic in ATI/IBLP - Gothardism & Bill Gothard
I know a lot of people have wondered what exactly the Wisdom Booklets taught. Recovering Grace is doing a series discussing parts of them. http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2015/10/an-ati-education-chapter-1-under-the-umbrella/ This article points out how all these teachings lead to the idea that no one can question Bill Gothard because questioning him is like questioning God. http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2015/10/an-ati-education-chapter-2-is-it-just-me/ The Wisdom Booklets were set up to train people, even the parents, to doubt themselves and their ability to make decisions so that they would follow Bill without question. http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2015/12/an-ati-education-chapter-3-thou-shalt-not-trap-the-eye/ http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2015/12/an-ati-education-chapter-4-the-law-of-grace/ This last quote really describes a Wisdom Book. It is just a mishmash of different stuff. -
I was looking at old posts on Chad Paine's blog (I can't sleep) and found this comment from Jessica: This surprises me. I thought that Jessica was a bit out there for ATI, and Zsuzsanna certainly wouldn't approve. Sadly, I think Wisdom Booklets are actually going to provide a better education for those kids than Jessica would manage by constructing her own "curriculum" - she'd change it constantly as the focus of her crazy changed.
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I just had an ATI question. I grew up in Reformed land and while there were a few families in the church into it, ATI wasn't the norm. My understanding of ATI has always been that it required families to homeschool their children. However, I saw a conservative Baptist school out my way advertising their program. I got curious and picked up one of their handbooks. Along with mention of being skirts-only for girls, etc.., they listed their curriculum and talked about using materials from ABEKA, BJU and IBLP. It's also full of all of the ATI code words about "glowing countenance", "umbrella of authority", or "following God's principles." Is there a school version of ATI now?
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Gothard headquarters downsizing, moving to Big Sandy
HereticHick posted a topic in ATI/IBLP - Gothardism & Bill Gothard
Mods, please merge if someone has already posted about this. Staddon Family blog announces that IBLP is downsizing & moving from Chicago to Big Sandy. staddonfamily.com/2015/09/14/texas-ho/ The decision has been made. Last week it was officially announced that IBLP will be relocating its headquarters from Chicago to Big Sandy, Texas. The trends over the last 15 years have shown that the ministry has more properties than it currently needs, and after much prayer and consideration it was decided that it would be a financially strategic move to consolidate with the ALERT campus down in Texas. While not unexpected, the move will still be quite a change for all of us. ... God miraculously provided the Oak Brook property for the Institute back in 1969, and since then groups and delegations from all over the world have come seeking practical instruction on how to apply Scriptural principles to every aspect of life. While this brings a chapter of IBLP’s history to a close, the vision of introducing people to Jesus Christ and providing families, churches, businesses, and nations with Biblical training on how to find true success in life remains unchanged. The Lord has worked mightily in the past and we are excited about what He has for the future. We are all one body in Christ (1 Cor. 12), and as each member looks to the Head and follows His leading we know He has great things in store for each one. -
Switching sides - ATIers going Reformed, or vice versa?
FoxyMoxie posted a topic in General Religion Questions & Discussion
Thinking about Benessa and baby Spurgeon Seewald got me thinking - if Vision Forum were still around, I could see them trying to get in with that crowd (although I know the crowd is still around, if fractured) although I feel like VF would look down on them as 'nouveau riche'. I certainly think the Seewalds Jr are heading Reformedwards. Are there any other ATIers/non-Reformed types heading that way, or vice versa? I guess Lina going Catholic was a pretty big switcheroo. -
Negligence Lawsuit Filed Against IBLP
love2scrap posted a topic in ATI/IBLP - Gothardism & Bill Gothard
It's about time. recoveringgrace.org/2015/10/negligence-lawsuit-filed-against-iblp/ Mods, how do we break links in the new format? Removing the front portion doesnt break the link like it used to. -
If you have spent any time on Free Jinger, you will likely recognize the acronyms ATI and IBLP. This is the fundamentalist ministry created by Bill Gothard, an unmarried man who believes such things as: There has long been talk about both Bill Gothard and his brother committing acts of sexual misconduct with female employees and interns. As long ago as 1980, Gothard admitted to "moral failures" with some of the staff. We at FJ have long awaited some kind of action to be taken against this unmarried man who had unlimited access to vulnerable women who are taught from birth that if a man "stumbles" it is the woman's fault. On around October 21, 2015, we became aware that a civil lawsuit had finally been filed against IBLP and all the members of the Board. Bill Gothard is no longer part of the organization, having been forced to resign after another round of accusations in 2014. The board members named in the lawsuit are: John Stancil, Anthony Burrus, Gil Bates, Timothy Levendusky, Charles Stephen Paine, Jr., and David York. From Recovering Grace: The Complain in it's entirety can be found at the Chicago Tribune Each of the 5 Plaintiffs are asking for $50,000. Once a leader in the homeschooling movement, Gothard's ministry has managed to largely fly under the radar of the general public, despite having some rather high profile adherents. Recently, Rep. Daniel Webster (R -FL) was considering a run for Speaker of the House, following John Boehner's resignation. Arguably the most famous followers are The Duggar family of TLC's 19 Kids and Counting, which was cancelled after several scandals related to the oldest Duggar child, Josh. In May, 2015, In Touch magazine dropped the bombshell that when Josh Duggar was a teenager he sexually abused at least 5 girls, including several of his siblings. In August, it was revealed that Josh had not one, but two accounts at Ashley Madison, a website which has the tagline "Life is short. Have an affair." For some 10 seasons, the Duggars have been promoted by TLC as a (very) large, happy Christian family. They have shown the Duggars on the campaign trail for politicians such a Mike Huckabee and RIck Santorum. While claiming to be a shiny, happy Christian family, the Duggars have spoken out against the gay community and abortion. Josh was hired by the Family Research Council and moved to Washington, DC, which was also documented on 19 Kids and Counting. Recently, Gothard and his ministry have gotten more mainstream attention thanks to Josh Duggars misconduct and hypocrisy coming to light. While the Duggar family show, 19 Kids and Counting was cancelled by TLC, they have recently announced that they plan to do several "special episodes" of a show starring the newly married Duggar children, Jill Dillard and Jessa Sewald. What some people may not know is that another high profile Gothard adherent also has a TV show. Gil Bates and his family have a show titled Bringing Up Bates on the UP network. The Bateses are often seen as a less strict, more fun version of the Duggars. They also have 19 kids and in the last several years have married off 4 children, some of which were shown on either 19 Kids and Counting or Bringing up Bates. In fact, one of the Bates children married the son of Rep. Daniel Webster (R-FL) You might recognize the name Gil Bates from earlier in this post. That's right, he is a member of the Board of IBLP and was named in the lawsuit. The general public may have the Duggar's number thanks to Josh, but there is still a high profile IBLP member that has a platform to show off these dangerous beliefs on TV and he seems to be slipping under the radar, just like the Duggars did for many years. Please join us for discussion here: http://www.freejinger.org/topic/24484-negligence-lawsuit-filed-against-iblp/#top Further reading: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/10/22/five-women-sue-bill-gothards-ministry-that-has-ties-to-the-duggars/ http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/10/23/fundamentalist_duggar_connected_ministry_is_sued_for_sex_abuse_cover_up.html http://www.salon.com/2015/10/23/the_cult_of_duggar_worship_must_be_stopped_theres_nothing_glamorous_about_the_familys_ongoing_hypocrisy/
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Let's start a list if the upper crust of ATI. I always read so-and-so's family is ATI royalty, but not sure who is all included I this group and what qualifies. Obvious family: The Duggars Would the Bates be considered royalty?
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There's a new series on ATI Education on Recovering Grace. The intro and Part 1 are currently posted.
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Now that we know ATI is financially strugging and relocating, I am wondering what kind of jobs they can get? When ATI goes down under, what will they be able to do? Especially with the controversial background of having worked for ATI ? I would be very worried... It's not like all of them can have JB support them, right?
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Good article about cults briefly mentioning ATI . I saw no reason to break link http://www.fairobserver.com/region/nort ... gic-90134/
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Inside The Duggar-Cult' Gothard getting more negitive news
doggie posted a topic in ATI/IBLP - Gothardism & Bill Gothard
nothing really new but it is good gothard is getting more negative news. http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2015/ ... followers/ In recent years, the Duggars have become the poster family for wholesome values. But behind the 19 Kids & Counting family's strict God-loving guidelines is a controversial and ultra-conservative foundation: the Institute of Basic Life Principles. Now, in an exclusive investigation, RadarOnline.com has uncovered testimony from former followers of the IBLP, who warn that it is a "cult" that will do the famous family's children more harm than good! Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar began homeschooling their brood in the 1990s using the Bible-based curriculum of the IBLP's Advanced Training Institute, which was founded by disgraced leader Bill Gothard. He resigned from the organization last year amid allegations of sexually harassing women at his ministry and failing to report child abuse cases. Largely because of this tarnished history, former devotees of the Duggar family way say it's hard to even watch them play out their beliefs on their show. "I have no problem calling it a cult," former follower Micah Murray told RadarOnline.com. "What the Duggars are doing is putting Gothard's philosophies on display as a positive thing and they are not positive." "From my experience, it has the hallmarks of what makes cults so damaging - abusive authority structures, the way that people's thinking and behavior is controlled, the way that people aren't taught to trust themselves and trust their leader unquestionably," continued Murray, who runs his own blog, Redemption Pictures, about his experiences inside the Institute. "I've seen a number of episodes [of 19 Kids & Counting] and it makes me very uncomfortable," he added. "I think the Duggars are probably very nice people. They're probably very sincere people. But I think that the teachings of Bill Gothard are very destructive." -
Do the Duggars' beliefs deflect the pressures of fame?
silvia posted a topic in Quiver Full of Duggars
People have mentioned how many TV families -- most notably, the Gosselins and the Honey Boo Boo clan, though I'm sure there are others -- tend to implode spectacularly under the pressure of being in the spotlight. And this phenomenon isn't limited to reality TV families; child stars, in general, seem to have a tough time of it psychologically, and they tend to start showing signs of trouble even before they're out of their teens (see Judy Garland, Drew Barrymore, Lindsay Lohan, Mary-Kate Olsen, Macaulay Culkin). But for the Duggars, things have been fairly placid, at least on the surface. None of the kids (and there are now eight who are 18 or older) have visibly rebelled against their parents in any significant way. And the show has been on the air almost seven years now. That's a long time for so many kids to be in the public eye without really departing from the fringy lifestyle they were raised in. It's remarkable, especially considering the low second-generation retention rates of cults in general. I wonder sometimes if we can credit their religious beliefs for this apparent stability -- totally independent of the religion's truth value. Obviously, the kids are pretty protected from the temptations of alcohol and drugs that have led so many performers astray. But I think there's something more than that: maybe that this belief system's emphasis on abnegating the self ("yourself last," having a servant's heart, "I am nothing without Christ," etc.) in part offsets the intense self-focus that generally accompanies fame and courts depression? Or maybe just that the "hedge of protection" has created such mental barriers that the kids no longer have the independent agency they would need to make their own mistakes? Or that this lifestyle forces them to get really good at shoving their pain down instead of externalizing it? I'm curious to hear your thoughts as to why the kids' course has run so apparently smooth thus far. (Of course, huge caveat here--things could start to unravel in a very public way down the line.) -
I read that Bill began his ministry empire by approaching gang members on the street in Chicago. He had great success talking with them and would invite them to some kind of event in a local hall. He says he could turn them around to have a heart for Jesus. So, why wouldn't t Bill with all his supposedly gang success volunteer to help Baltimore at this time?
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I don't know it this is relevant, but I was wondering about all the religions that are similar to the Duggars' but aren't quite the same. I know for one that the schwieters, they're an apostolic bunch, are very similar. I went with one for a bit, a few months, and they all wore the very modest clothes and the girls had to have very long hair. And in the end, the boy I went with, ended up marrying at 18 and having a baby not soon after with the girl he left for. The only difference really, is that they allowed dancing and I went swing dancing quite a few times.
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After reading a couple of blogs of ATI / similar cults survivors and leavers, I wondered if the Duggars have softened with the younger kids in regards of being strict(we know they are not exactly strict on the thriftyness and other topics.) What I was wondering about was there importance for "the happy face" or "good attitude" It seems to be very much existant with the older kids generally, but kids like Jennifer or jordyn are seen with a scowl or indfferent and defo not "good attitude" I wonder if they just let them be(in a certain frame) these days or if it is because ie Jenny is still an unbroken character and the moment that you only see "good attitude" pics of her is the point when she will have been broken.
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Gothard's teachings on spanking
formergothardite posted a topic in ATI/IBLP - Gothardism & Bill Gothard
On SSB a former ATI student shares his experience with Gothard's teachings about how parents should spank their children. Warning, the article is very disturbing. I'm only going to copy the part that explains what Gothard told parents to do when it came to spanking their children. I asked my mother if she had this booklet and she said no, probably because as you get further into ATI you usually buy more of the materials and my parents didn't buy a lot of the stuff they were encouraged to buy. The stipulation was that we had to hold still and submissively accept the beating, and we had to stop crying and be silent and not make a sound. This was a specific part of Gothard's beating protocol, found in one of his pamphlets: the silent, limp submission to a beating was his metric for a "repentant spirit." Yes, this is how Gothard tells parents to spank their children. This is what the author of the blog post has to say for all the people who side with Gothard. This would especially include people like the Bates where Gil and Kelly are not only in a position to know more than most ATI parents, but they could actually do something(but they don't). I'd like to state again for the record that Gothard apologists are remorseless sadists, and this includes that Alfred character who comments on your blog. These people KNOW THAT THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING IN THE IBLP/ATI PROGRAM, AND THEY ARE FINE WITH IT. spiritualsoundingboard.com/2015/03/31/man-shares-personal-testimony-of-how-bill-gothard-used-bible-verses-which-led-to-the-abuse-of-children-part-2/ -
Hey everyone! First time starting a thread. I'm going to try to turn my incoherent train of thought into a readable post. There are a lot of conflicting perceptions of the Duggar children, especially as they approach adulthood. I think we pretty unanimously view the elementary-aged through teenage children as victims of their parents' choices, and of the destructive fundamentalist culture in general. Seeing someone as a victim reduces the degree to which we seem them as an agent (i.e. capable of independent thoughts and decisions), so even though these kids have the same hateful views as their parents, we excuse them because they don't know better. However, as soon as a Duggar kid moves out of the house, in our eyes they immediately become responsible for their beliefs and actions. There is open criticism towards Josh, Jill, and Jessa about decisions they've made (e.g. no birth control, work for hate group, etc.) and things they've said on social media. There is such an abrupt shift in the way we perceive them, when in reality their maturation has been happening fluidly since they were born. We're angry with who they are now, when the people they are now have been in the making for the past 20+ years. They didn't suddenly gain insight when they got married, so why suddenly hold them accountable for beliefs they've had for years? I think part of what causes this is our victimization of the Duggar kids still living at home. We act as if every one of them is silently wishing they could escape, without realizing that the kids themselves buy into the culture just as much as their parents do. We feel sorry for them because they've never been exposed to a non-Gothard school of thought, but because of that isolation, they don't feel like they're missing out. I know I've always seen Jana as an overworked Cinderella-type character, but the fact is, she probably enthusiastically agrees with all the horrible things her parents stand for. My point is, if we insist that the kids at home are "blameless," then that shouldn't end when they leave the compound. They're still the exact same people with the exact same life experiences, who were taught that critical thinking is off limits. If we insist that they are responsible for their own decisions and opinions when they leave home, then it may be useful to remind ourselves that the kids we currently sympathize with--Josiah, Joy Anna, Jana, Hannie--are also bigoted, sexist, homophobes that swear we're doing the devil's work.
