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  1. Daenerys

    A different kind of QF mentality...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -pill.html This guy thinks he is 'helping' to repopulate his home city of Dundee, Scotland, by getting 14 different women pregnant with his children and now having a total of 16 at the age of 35. All of them are living entirely off state benefits and he does not have to pay child support as he isn't earning money. He's certainly got himself a 'quiver' there, I wonder what the fundys would think? Is he better or worse than those ebil people who use contraception and don't have any children? :?:
  2. movement. Author of the article is basically called a selfish murder in the comments section for wanting to limit family size. ...and they wonder why I am so staunchly pro-choice. http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/11/ ... ull-of-it/
  3. The world record for having the most number of children officially recorded is 69 by the first of two wives of Feodor Vassilyev (1707-1782), a peasant from Shuya, 150 miles east of Moscow. In 27 confinements, she gave birth to 16 pairs of twins, seven sets of triplets and four sets of quadruplets. The children were born between 1725-1765. ...And all of them lived save 2. How would she have managed this in a time and place when most families had children and babies die young because of disease,hunger,accidents and so many women died in childbirth...and she lived to an old age.Do you think she felt blessed or cursed? His second wife also had all multiples.
  4. I'm probably not going to respond to this article, but hope some of my fellow FJ'ers will. I just can't deal with the writer's lack of knowledge about the family, including that they are not Quiverful. Yeah, right. FROM THE WASHINGTON POST Choice means choice Published: November 9 The right to choose cuts both ways Michelle Duggar, mother of the famed Duggar family, is expecting her 20th child — and the Internet is not happy. A glance at the comment section of the Daily Beast’s article reporting her pregnancy gives an idea of how our culture perceives her decision to have another child. It’s a reminder that we usually view the decision to have a large family, to reject contraception and, in many instances, to forgo a career, as anti-feminist. Duggar is an extreme example of a lifestyle choice that challenges today’s feminist norms. But can we write off her choice as anti-feminist? Or is that a violation of feminism’s first principle: choice? In 2009, Noreen Malone, a writer for Slate’s Double X, reminded her feminist readers that Duggar, then expecting baby No. 19, freely chose her lifestyle. She suggested, “The word choice, when we’re applying it to the reproductive sphere, often ends up getting defined too narrowly.†Much of the debate centers on the Duggars’ purported adherence to the Quiverfull movement, which essentially teaches that women should have as many children as physically possible and reject all family planning. In fact, the Duggars are not part of the movement but hew to their own religious beliefs. And notably, in The Washington Post’s own interview with the couple, husband Jim Bob said he leaves the decision to have more children entirely to his wife. Isn’t Michelle Duggar living in accordance with her vision of a happy and fulfilling life? And how is that anti-feminist? Somehow, somewhere, feminism became a dirty word for many women, in particular political and religious conservatives. Perhaps this is because somehow, somewhere, the feminist movement became co-opted by an extraordinarily narrow view of women, one as narrow as the previous view that a woman’s only place was barefoot in the kitchen. Now, it would seem, the view is that a woman’s only place is at her desk, with a nanny at home watching her two children. She must support Planned Parenthood, or else she is complicit in the “war on women.†That view presents a woman who is opposed to abortion, eschews contraception, opts out of a career to tend to her children or has a large family as anti-feminist, oppressed and ignorant. Ironically, her choice makes her a second-class citizen. Perhaps it’s time we revisit what feminism entails. Rather than label Michelle Duggar a disgrace to women’s rights, we can use her choice to discuss respect more broadly. All women suffer when society’s view of women is too narrow. Ashley E. McGuire is founder and editor-in-chief of www.altcatholicah. com. © The Washington Post Company
  5. Now that the Duggars have announced #20, they're popular water cooler fodder at the office, naturally. Unfortunately, whenever anyone brings them up in the most innocent, superficial way (if you can consider the phrase "clown car" to be innocent, in the given context!), I invariable end up launching into a diatribe about the Quiverfull movement, Gothardism, partriarchy, or some insidious combination of the three. I bring up how grossly uneducated the youngest Duggars are; I'm sure to mention the dissonance between "leaving up to God" and "relying on extreme medical interventions to save your micro-preemie's life. In short, I get a little rant-y. Pretty sure I've educated a good number of people over the past two days, but also certain that I've come off as a wackadoo to many other (including my brand new boss).
  6. I was curious. The definition of quiverful seems to be that the parents let god decide the number of children that they have. For any quiverful women on this board.... Is there a limit to how far you would follow this belief? What is a doctor told you that your next childbirth could be your last? Or that you might die in labor? Or that you might die in pregnancy? What if your children were going without food because of lack of money? How far would you take being quiverful? I know that there are lurkers here. If your shy about posting, just use an annoymous screen name. We will have no idea who you are.
  7. stabbycat

    Quiverfull for Newbies

    I've been lurking here for a few days, and while I knew there were QF/Gothard families besides the Duggars, I didn't think there were THAT many. I honestly don't know how you guys keep track of all of them, especially considering the size of each family. Is there a wiki or a blog that I could use for reference? If not, can someone make some sort of a guide?
  8. docmom

    Quiverfull and men who can't

    We know that the position of a great many quiverfull families is that women should continue to have babies even if they have been advised against it for medical reasons. What if a man is advised against having sex for medical reasons? Is he still obligated to go through with the act even although it might kill him? I'm guessing the old double standard is alive and well in these cases but wondered if anyone had come across anything that addresses this.
  9. MerryHappy

    Scottish newspaper covers QF etc.

    Dunno if this story made it here yet. Why is it that the Scottish press can cover this but the press in the US seems to shy away from it? (AC is the exception) Sorry it's a block of text. It did not cut and paste well. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/worl ... 5773?69588 Children of God ... bred to take over the world EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS HAVE A NEW MISSION: CREATE AN ARMY TO TAKE OVER THIS GODLESS, LIBERAL WORLD. ANDREW PURCELL EXAMINES THE RISE AND RISE OF THE QUIVERFULL MOVEMENT 25 Sep 2011 Vyckie Garrison’s seventh child, Wesley, was born by emergency caesarean section at the Faith Regional Hospital in Norfolk, Nebraska. She had planned to give birth at home, unassisted, but her uterus partially ruptured during labour, almost killing her. For a month, she was confined to bed, barely able to move, let alone look after her family. The doctor said it would be reckless for her to conceive any more children. But when she turned to her friends, they offered bleak counsel, backed with the force of the Bible. “I was told that a woman shouldn’t shrink back from supposed dangers and that we should honour God with our bodies,†she says. “Jesus died for us, we should be willing to die for him.†She became pregnant twice more, suffering two miscarriages. Garrison and her husband, Warren Bennett, had originally decided to stop at three kids. He had a vasectomy, to make sure. But after reading The Way Home, by Mary Pride, they decided to reverse the procedure – calling one of the doctors helpfully listed inside the back cover. In the next six years, they had four more children. Pride’s book is one of the founding texts of the Quiverfull movement, which encourages Christians to refrain from using all forms of birth control, including abstinence. It believes child-bearing women are like missionaries, to be commended for their courage and sacrifice. They hook people with the perfect family portrait, talk about God, wave a flag or two… “I had it all calculated out,†Garrison says. “I had seven kids and they were each gonna have 12. They were all going to continue in the faith, to be warriors for Christ.†Calvinist pastor Doug Phillips, whose Vision Forum Ministry provides spiritual guidance, educational materials and an online catalogue of approved activities and clothes, has eight children. He preaches that Christianity can only triumph over secular liberalism if believers practise “multi-generational faithfulness†by raising an army of devout soldiers. His 200 Year Plan envisages a godly United States, six generations from now, with fundamentalist evangelicals in the majority and a theocratic government in charge. The key to the concept comes from the Bible, in Psalm 127: “Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one’s youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They shall not be put to shame when they contend with their enemies in the gate.†In his presentation, Phillips shows how the exponential multiplication of eight children each begetting eight children of their own would change what he sees as a godless country, where having perhaps two or three children has become the norm. “Our age is defined by warfare against the Christian family,†he says. “For our children to be mighty in the land, we must embrace a long-term vision of victory.†Quiverfull is a radical branch of the Christian Patriarchy movement, itself part of fundamentalist evangelicalism, and the nuances of observance make it tricky to estimate how many people in America adhere to its beliefs. What is certain is that thousands of families are withdrawing from the world, educating their children at home and living according to a literal interpretation of the Bible that stresses absolute submission to male authority. There’s a lot of fear among evangelicals right now,†says Garrison. “The more fearful evangelicals become, the more they retreat and start home schooling, and that is where they’re going to encounter Quiverfull ideals. “Families are taught that getting into powerful institutions is part of their dominion mandate. They get internships at state level, get involved in political campaigns and in the justice system. That’s the whole point of having all these sons: to have an influence on policy and reclaim the country for God.†Patrick Henry College in Virginia, the headquarters of the conservative Christian Home School Legal Defence Association, sent more interns to the George W Bush White House than any other institution. Republican presidential front-runner Rick Perry has close ties to evangelical group Vision Forum through multi-millionaire campaign contributor Jim Leininger. Lewis Wells has been writing about the movement ever since his fiancee, who came from a hardline Christian Reconstructionist family, abruptly broke off their engagement at her father’s decree. His website, Commandments Of Men, has become a hub for fundamentalists suffering a crisis of faith or looking for a way out. He says: “The women I deal with – and I hear from new people practically every day – their education is how to be a submissive wife and mother. They want to leave but they don’t know how. A lot of the girls resort to self-injury, cutting themselves, to deal with the hell that they live in.†A TV reality show version of Christian Patriarchy can be seen in 19 Kids And Counting, starring Jim-Bob Duggar, his wife Michelle and their identically dressed, beatifically smiling brood: Joshua, Jana, John, Jill, Jessa, Jinger, Joseph… and so on. Wells says. “They hook people with the perfect family portrait, talk about God, wave an American flag or two and otherwise intelligent people take the bait.†This was, essentially, what happened to Libby Anne, whose parents were ordinary evangelicals until they joined a community of Christians educating their children at home. Anne’s mother had been a feminist at university and planned to return to work, but when a friend gave her a book by Debi Pearl, Created To Be His Helpmeet, her beliefs changed radically. Through their No Greater Joy Ministry, Pearl and her husband, Michael, preach that a woman’s only godly role is to produce and raise children. “The babies just kept coming,†says Anne, who uses an assumed name to protect her 12 siblings. “My parents always wanted to have a big family, maybe four, five or so, but they never stopped, partly because of this belief that they were raising up an army for Christ. They told us they were training us to go out and convert others.†While being homeschooled, Anne learned that feminism is evil, that most people calling themselves Christians have been corrupted by worldly temptations and was taught that science supports the belief that God created the Earth in six days, around 6000 years ago. Though she says she had a happy, busy childhood, her parents raised her to believe that the world was a scary, dangerous place. “They talked about the possibility of a second American revolution. They saw a future when the government would put people in jail for home schooling and eventually just for being Christians.†One day, her father took the kids to the home armoury and told them: “If need be, the resistance starts here.†As the eldest daughter, Anne became her mother’s right hand, feeding, bathing, clothing, teaching and even disciplining her younger siblings. Another Debi Pearl book, To Train Up A Child, teaches that children should be spanked from the age of six months, to instil absolute discipline. The family rule was that Anne could punish those siblings who were at least five years younger than her. In fundamentalist households, fathers have absolute authority, derived from the Bible, specifically Ephesians 5, 22-24: “Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church.†This may work for some families, but it can also lead to abuse. Garrison’s husband was blind, unable to be the sole bread-winner, and beat and emotionally bullied the children. “I started seeing my kids completely break down,†Garrison says. “I recognised how abusive my husband had become as a result of this patriarchal teaching, which gave sanction to some of his worst tendencies. I had to step in and protect my kids because I didn’t want to see them getting hurt.†One child attempted suicide. When, during a brief separation, Garrison’s husband sent her a list of the ways in which she had been disobedient, she filed for divorce and won custody of all seven children. She now calls herself an atheist. Garrison has collected scores of similar stories at her website, No Longer Quivering. The testimony of families who successfully pass on their beliefs is harder to come by. The Sunday Herald requested interviews with Vision Forum and No Greater Joy Ministries but received no response. Joe Sands, one of seven children, was raised an Independent Fundamental Baptist. Despite doubts and private heresies – including listening to rock music and occasionally drinking beer – he stayed with the church until he and his wife, Kristine, had six children of their own. But then, two years ago, a whooping cough epidemic swept through the congregation in Normandale, Minnesota, almost killing his son, Jack. “This movement is very paranoid about anything ‘worldly,’ which is a very relative term, so they don’t trust doctors and don’t believe in getting vaccinated,†he says. His crisis of faith began in earnest. The obvious flaw in the 200 Year Plan is it relies on children swallowing the belief system and replicating its rigid authoritarian structure in their own families. Sands claims that, in practice, few hardline patriarchal households stay together. He says: “I explain it like the wet soap bar. You’re going to lose the wet soap bar, so you press harder and it squirts out of your hand. I watched families break apart all around me as I was growing up. The sad part is that once the kids leave, the parents who are so indoctrinated reject them. My mother immediately rejected me when I left.†Anne still has a relationship of sorts with her parents, but it has taken years to rebuild, since the day she came home from university and questioned everything they stood for. “Nothing that I can do or achieve in life – not my stable and happy marriage, not my child, not school or work – will ever please them,†she says. However, thanks to the education they gave her, she is well-equipped to handle the world on her own, unlike other Quiverfull refugees who have spent their entire fertile lives pregnant and raising children. “They don’t have any money, any training, any idea how to navigate the world without their husband. It’s heart-breaking,†says Wells. For now, the informal support network run by Garrison is the only dedicated resource they have. “It can be really sad and overwhelming reading their stories,†she says. “Sometimes I just shut my computer off and walk away and think: ‘I can’t deal with this.’ “The one thing that is encouraging is these are very tough women. When it comes time to get their life out of the pit, they’ll do it.â€
  10. I don't know why but it seems like the young pre-teen and teen A.T.I./full quiver girls seem so much older than their chronological age. Maybe it's because of how they dress and speak? I've wondered what that kind of lifestyle does to women. Does it cause them to mature faster or remain much less so? The oldest Shed girl on youtube's Quiverful family was a good example. She was twelve in the documentary but looked about fifteen or seventeen.
  11. Lillian

    Australian QF families?

    I saw an ad for a current affairs program that included a story about a family with 15 kids and wanting more. There weren't many details, but I'll watch tomorrow and see. Heads up to other Aussie FJers, watch A Current Affair on 9 tomorrow (monday)! (I promise that is the only time I will ever advertise for that program or Today Tonight.) Besides for that, does anyone know of any other Quiverfull Australians? Any blog links?
  12. Confused_by_religion


    Does anybody know who is behind this blog? http://quivermen.blogspot.com It's genius!
  13. http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/video/201 ... quiverfull Forgive me if this was posted.
  14. luckylassie

    Quiverful of It

    I saw a video on you tube after the other quiverfull documentary. The title was Quiverfull of It-Fundie Baby Factories. It was quite interesting.
  15. GenerationCedarchip

    Things Quiverfullers Like

    As a companion to the book list we compiled a few pages back, here is a list of suggested materials straight from one of the quiverfull sites. Even though a steady diet of this would make my head explode, I do find it interesting to get windows into how that crowd thinks. Here's the link: www.quiverfull.com/resources.php
  16. There's an interesting article in the Washington Post about a Catholic family of 11 kids living in the DC area and the dad is a high school teacher. Holy cow! So this family has none of the advantage of living in some cheap, rural area AND the dad is not pulling in too much money. I'm surprised the mom is still sane. The family is less kooky than the other fundie families we've seen. They send their children to Catholic school and it looks like they let their kids be fairly normal. I don't appreciate the mother saying time for self is "overrated"...especially since the article later states that mom sometimes goes outside for some "peace time"---because that's not alone time at all.... Anyways, just thought it was an interesting article.
  17. Deleted04

    Quiverful Brits Documentary

    http://documentaryheavendotcom/deborah- ... nt-of-god/ (The ending is WEIRD) A documentary about 13-year-old Deborah Drapper, who, unlike other British teens has never heard of Britney Spears or Victoria Beckham. She has been brought up in a deeply Christian family and her parents have tried to make sure she and her ten brothers and sisters have grown up protected from the sins of the outside world. Deborah is a bright, confident girl who has big ambitions for her life and the film spends a summer with her as she ventures out in the world to see what life outside her family could be and starts putting her beliefs forward to a wider audience. Here are some more fundie related docs http://documentaryheavendotcom/the-virgin-daughters/ http://documentaryheavendotcom/louis-th ... istianity/ http://documentaryheavendotcom/the-tria ... d-haggard/ http://documentaryheaven.dotcom/the-fundamentalists/ http://documentaryheavendotcom/friends-of-god/ http://documentaryheavendotcom/america% ... in-crisis/ http://documentaryheavendotcom/why-i-am ... christian/
  18. Feberin

    Wills - Quiverfull

    My husband and I are trying to work out a will and it made me wonder about these QF families where the extended family isn't as conservative as them. Now for some families such as the Maxwells it no longer would matter because they have adult children who could take on the younger ones. But do you think these families have wills? And do they leave the kids to their family even if they aren't as strict or do they leave them to friends who also have a boatload of kids? I mean can you imagine if Gil and Kelly died and all the Bates moved in with the Duggars?
  19. xDreamerx

    Found a QF page on FB

    I'm bored and can't sleep so I thought I would have some fun with the facebook search function. facebook.com/groups/24182068731/ There's also links to other fundie sites on the page like largefamilesonpurpose.com Have we talked about them before?
  20. Jeff Sharlett on Democracy Now points out the parallels between Norway shooter's manifesto and Quiverfull philosophy. http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/27/n ... xenophobia The part about feminism and parallels between quiverfull and Breivik's thinking begins at 20:00. He also points out that the 15,000 page document shows a development from "cultural Christian" to more fervent belief and addresses the "no true christian" fallacy.
  21. gilbatesfamily.com/2011/07/23/more-photos-from-missouri/#comments In the responses, someone asked if "Quiverfull" families had different rules about holding hands and Kelly replied: What a lying hypocrite! She spells it like they do in QF literature, then recognizes it as a movement, but implies it's a "group." Which is it, Kelly? I can't believe Kelly has the gall to completely deny knowledge of QF or how it works. Even the Duggars admit to knowing what it is, although they're trying to distance themselves from it. As for the bible verse; if anyone knows how to dig through internet archives, the Duggars had it on their website masthead for quite some time c. 2007-8, only changing it when the weekly show started and they began to catch some heat, and these families were BFF's. Puhleeeease.... PS Kelly: IBLP is also a "movement" unless you consider it your "religion." Her bloomers are definitely on fire.
  22. helloemi

    Quiverful Digest?

    Has anyone successfully infiltrated them? I was legitimately interested in their beliefs at first, well minus the patriarchy (Which is how I first found this forum ) but you know...the whole needing to further my education, getting promoted at work thing kinda convinced me otherwise. I decided to try to subscribe out of entertainment value, even name dropped a distant Quiverful relative who publishes a Christian magazine. I thought my answers were fool proof...but I was outsmarted by the fundies....Grrrr! Has anyone managed to subscribe?
  23. I found this advertisment for a fundie styled cult commune. It's kind of a suprise almost that it would take fundies this long to go the way of the fundamentalist mormons, amish or whatnot. But then part of the ethos of fundism is that each patriarch gets to be an alpha male of his own domain and that doesn't jive with living in a commune. Anyway these guys are more mennonite-ish. I'm amused by the irony of advertising for your anti technology cult on the internet. http://directory.ic.org/21333/Conservat ... o_name_yet Website: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Old-Fashi ... Community/ Contact:
  24. This family has been posted about here at least once before. lotsofwagners.blogspot.com/2011/07/how-do-you-do-it.html Excerpt: Kudos!
  25. Okay, A little about me. At 20 I was told I have Polycystic Overy Syndrome (PCOS) and to have our 3 babies it was somewhat difficult- I lost a lot of weight which helped etc. Anyway, the statistics are that 1 in 10 and 1 in 20 women of childbearing age has PCOS. I was thinking how if 1 or 2 of the Duggar girls can't have a baby or it would take some "help" to have one? I wonder how they would feel as women and as the Duggar girl who couldn't have a baby. Horrible I'm sure but honestly I think Michelle would be happy to not have competition
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