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  1. I am not a Michelle fan. BUT... I was reading another thread and someone said something about Michelle's lack of involvement, like Michelle taking a bag from Jill's shoulder as Jill had already turned and was walking away. All those moments with Jill and Jim Bob. Where was the special mom/daughter time? I am not close with my mother. When I got married, she was not an integral part of wedding preparations. When I gave birth, I had to get the nurse to make her leave because I kept asking her and she wouldn't leave and I was about to get hysterical. I'm very close with my daughter. We have a very different relationship for which I am profoundly grateful that history did not repeat itself. I cherish my daughter with all my heart. I would be utterly heartbroken to be marginalized the way Michelle was, or appeared to be, on the show. This was the Jim Bob and Jill Show, with special guest appearances by Michelle, who did a whole lot of talking but didn't really do anything. For Jill, I totally get it. For Michelle, my momma's heart shatters.
  2. Can we discuss the Duggars propensity for black and white thinking? Forgive me for any typos- I'm rushing to get to work! Anyways, there are two examples that really bother me and show what I'm talking about. 1. Buy used and save the difference! I am cheap, cheap, cheap when it comes to buying clothes. I don't like to spend $$ on them but I like to look decent. Also, I do not like Goodwill for ethical reasons and I don't have the patience to deal with thrift shopping. However, I spend very little to clothe my family. I only wear capris (not for religious reasons, I just think they look better). I buy these brand new for $3-5 just waiting for them to go on clearance (Kohl's brand) and I really like the Rock and Republic jeans (both pants and capris), I normally buy them for $10-12. I buy my husband shorts for $3-5 at Kohl's and Macy's (even Ralph Lauren and such). Shirts are usually around $5ish. Kids clothes are much cheaper! I can buy 10 outfits (top and bottom) for $50 for my 5 year old. These prices are often less that what I see at our local Goodwill and it's for brand new well fitting clothes. The thing I splurge on bras from Victoria's Secret. They fit me well and aren't frumpy looking (I'm big chested and that's hard to find). I do spend much more on shoes (which I would never buy used). But even still, I buy walking shoes (Fila) at Kohl's for $23. I have bought at least 6 pairs of these (work well for me) for exercise. My running shoes are much more because they come from a local running store and are specially fitted (proper shoes to reduce risk of injury). Kids shoes are can be found much cheaper ($5-6) new at Rack Room. So, why the insistence on buying used shoes? I realize everyone doesn't have a lot of store options (especially living rural) but the Duggars do since they travel often. They can also buy in bulk and buy at the end of the season for the next year. 2. Debt- Two instances come to mind. A. In my town, rent for a 2/2 apartment will run you about $950/month in a decent part of town. You can buy a town home for about $650/month including taxes, insurance, and PMI. IMO, it makes sense to take on the mortgage and either save the extra $300/month for home repairs or just pay it extra on the mortgage to shorten the time. If you chose to rent, you'd have to pay the $950 and then try to save for a house on top of that. It would take forever....especially because if you make $10 an hour here- you have a GOOD job (which honestly, I don't see how people can make it with two people making $10 full time). Now, I realize that things aren't the same in every area but JB makes it appear like taking debt is ALWAYS bad. In some (many now with low real estate prices and low interest) cases, it's the smartest thing to do. Why act like there's always a blanket rule for what's best? B. JB grilling Derick about the blown engine. Does he not realize that Derick may not have a blanket answer for that question. For example, we try to avoid debt (do have a mortgage because of the reasons above). We have no CC debt. Now, we have two cars (one new 2013 and one 1995). We both work. If we blew an engine and didn't have $ in savings to fix it immediately, we would just drop one another off at work until we could pay cash to fix said car. However, we both have short commutes (my job is about 4.5 miles from our house, his is 3) so we could walk/ride bikes if we were really in a bind. Also, we have flexible work schedules so it wouldn't be much of an inconvenience. If we had only one car, I would probably put it on a CC- unless it was winter (we live in FL if you walked to work in the summer- you'd be disgusting by the time you got there!). If we had one car and children and blew an engine, I would definitely put it on a CC (or more likely borrow from family). But JB wants the blanket, NOPE I would never consider putting a car repair on CC. I can't imagine having a car with a blown engine and having a couple of kids (more likely to get sick/injured and need medical attention), having the means to get the car fixed, and choosing not to do so. Especially in a rural area- I mean here- I could walk a mile and buy groceries at a local grocery store and carry them home. Inconvenient, yes but possible. Where could Jill walk one mile and buy groceries to feed her family? I mean Jill would obviously be able to get a ride with one of the family members- but what if it happened to Anna in DC? There's no family around and probably not public transportation out where they live....how would Josh get to work if they only had one car and it blew an engine? I'm assuming he's at least 30 miles from his job so he can't walk.....what would they do? I think JB and M need to start thinking their "rules" through. **Sorry for the wall of text. I have to get to work and wanted to get my thoughts out.**
  3. I can't decide if they're getting worse or just more blatant with everything we already knew. Or maybe it's that I'm just so done with it but I am really, really disgusted with them more than I have ever been. I just watched the Jilly Muffin ep and Jim Bob absolutely grossed me out with the sex talk. It's as though that is ALL that matters about marriage to them. When asked what Jill and Derek might be looking forward to most he should have said getting to live together, know each other better, build a life together, make their home...that kind of stuff. The fact that he first went to sex is really, really disgusting. I'm just...extremely grossed out at how often he discusses sex in reference to his daughter. Completely inappropriate and crossing the line into perversion. As for Michelle, she continues to piss me off on the regular. She's so repetitive, every single talking head. She says the same three token things about JIll over and over again. Maybe it's because there is no more depth to JIll's personality than "family and relationships" but that would be THEIR fault for never letting her develop an iota of personality. And I'm just about as disgusted by the baby thing as I am by JB's sex talk about his daughters. I just want to shake Michelle so hard and scream at her that her daughters have so much more worth than just making babies!!! They are human beings and you're reducing them to absolutely NOTHING. And Jill is turning into Michelle. I know I keep saying it but I can't think of any word other than DISGUSTING for all this.
  4. I'd never seen the dry hump on the golf course so I youtubed it. OMG I feel ill just remembering it. Oh to unsee. Lord just zap that one little part of brain memory PLZ. I showed it to my 14yo girl who is still a bit of a leghumper. She was protesting a mile a min that I saw this episode, didn't I remember?? Until it came to the humping part. It was almost sad to see her face fall in disgust. She walked away swearing it was not in the episode we watched. I thought I did see that episode but I sure would have remember that fiasco. Why didn't Michelle turn around and slap his disgusting face? Ben and Jessa were right in arm's reach of them. Jim Bob is GROSS and Michelle is just as bad for not stopping it. OMG, is that what it means to be a good wife? geeeezzzzzzz
  5. On Duggar Family Official on Facebook, they posted a pic of them campaigning..... Is the plane bob got JD big enough to fly them around? Crazy stuff
  6. itsnotmeitsu

    What would happen

    I was watching the episode where they were decorating the house last night, and Derick and Jill were in the bedroom, and having that discussion about not sleeping on the bed together, and some Howler came on and said that if they broke the rules, he'd have to tell JB. And the same episode, when they were talking about finance, JB talked about how he was still testing Derick, and that it could be over (IIRC) if they didn't like his response. What do you think would happen if they either broke their purity rules and did it, and the Squea-Howler told on them, and they said the marriage was off. Or if Derick was like, "Yeah, I'll put my blown-up engine bill on a CC, because I don't believe your rules," and JB said no. Do you think Jill would have gone with Derick. (I was annoyed at that Howler--he needs a sibling to say, Snitches get snitches.)
  7. whitegirl22

    Jim Bob has no Generals

    Jim Bob has no Generals I am sure Jumbos gets tired of constantly organizing and creating events to “keep the show on the road†so to speak. He has no one on his team with his creative organizational ability to take up the slack when he needs down time. Josh was the only one who could think on his feet and put something of a good face on things. But, his helpmeet ( ) did not want that kind of interference in her life. She, for all her other nonsense has street smarts. JD already looks like someone who has done a lifetime of hard work (subject for another time) He’s out! Joseph the same! Lovely smile though! Derek is a tree hugger. Ben does not take orders easily and has his own agenda or thinks he has. No for both. Which leaves him with nobody really, unless he can get someone from Craigslist’s! Seeing Derek on People video to day. I hope it works out for him. He seems a decent guy and Jill is all about Jill.
  8. Jana is sad because Jim Bob is neglecting his headship responsibilities towards her He allows her to be overloaded with work. In a society where birthing babies and marriage is top priority. He is allowing her to be passed over by not finding her a husband. She appears to be a great sister, worker, child minder etc. so she is upholding her end.
  9. I realize that I'm in way too deep when I wake up at 4:30 in the morning and my first thoughts are "why does jim bob stand in front of the church and make such a big to-do about that first kiss and not about the fact that two young people are making a lifetime commitment to one another. It just seems to me that the focus is skewed and priorities are out of order. Since I have joined FreeJinger I have really taken notice of just how immature Jim Bob and Michelle really are. Other husband/wife fundie combos seem to have a power/control aspect but these two have more of at 'teenage quality to their relationship) Yes, they have their finances in order - but it seems that they wholly focus on sex, kissing, blah, blah... what about real preparations and foundations for marriage? What about ensuring two people are truly compatible? I have started to really dig into this whole Bill Gothard ministry thing and the patriarchal legalistic elements. It just seems to me like a bunch of boy-men who think about little more than the physical aspects of a relationship and not what really makes it tick. Annoying. Baseless. Thoughts?
  10. lisab506

    J names?

    I'm relatively new here so please forgive me if this has been discussed before. I was thinking last night about J names the Duggars didn't use (wonder why) or could use in the future if they had more (God forbid). How about: Jacob (really popular, I wonder why they skipped it?) Julie/Julia/Julianna Julius/Julian Jules Jean/Jeanne/Jeannie Jemma Jacqueline/Jaclyn Jane Jared Jerome Jasmine Jaspar Janice Janet Jocelyn Jeffrey Jefferson Jade Jemimah Joan Jodie Jayden Jonah Jeanine Jeanette Jory Jesus (they might have if they were Latino) Jessica (too close to Jessa?) Jeremy (too close to Jeremiah?) Jillian (too close to Jill?) Jonathan (too close to John?) Justine I've clearly have too much time on my hands.
  11. Starcasm had an article today (http://starcasm.net/archives/292346) about Jim Bob Duggar being in the news a lot lately talking about The Pill and how it aborts babies. This is not true and has been discredited by The Mayo Clinic citing how that might have been the belief in the past but they've found it is not true. The Pill actually prevents the egg from implanting so no embryo or fetus is formed. I like how he mentions that it was a Christian doctor that explained it to them, as if a non-Christian dr wouldn't be as informed or something. Here's the blurb: ------------------------------- "Jim Bob Duggar says the pill is like abortion In real-time, the Duggars’ views on abortion have been in the spotlight for the past few weeks as the family rallies behind pro-life candidates hoping to win November elections. Following his daughter’s lead, Jim Bob is the latest to cause some controversy by saying the common birth control pill is “abortive.†“Something we didn’t know is that the pill can allow women to get pregnant, but then it can be aborted,†Jim Bob told The Friddle Show’s Krystal Heath in a newly published interview from September. “That’s what happened with Michelle. She went on the pill after Josh and then got pregnant, and then the pill actually caused a miscarriage. We started looking at the fine print of the contraception, and it said this could happen, and then we talked to a Christian doctor, and he explained this to us.†Jim Bob added that’s a reason Christians should be wary of the “liberal left,†which, he said, runs “legislation that’s just really in the face of Christians.†However, the vast majority of medical experts disagree with Jim Bob’s belief about the pill’s connection to miscarriages or “abortions.†From the Mayo Clinic… In the past, doctors had concerns that if you conceived immediately after stopping the pill, you had a higher risk of miscarriage. However, these concerns have proved to be largely unfounded. The hormones in birth control pills don’t linger in your system… If you continued taking your birth control pill because you didn’t realize you were pregnant, don’t be alarmed. Despite years of this accident happening, there’s very little evidence that exposure to the hormones in birth control pills causes birth defects." --------------------- Instead of getting the newest and most accurate medical information available on the subject, Jim Bob is out there on tv and giving interviews stating as a fact that the Pill causes abortion and therefore is B-A-D! That really frustrates me because I believe if someone is going to get out there and publicly state their views to the public about something so important, they have a responsibility to make sure what they saying is backed up by scientific fact. But then again, it's the Duggars we are talking about...when have they ever let scientific fact get in the way of their beliefs?
  12. http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/article ... bob-duggar Interesting.... The next Duggar marrying compound?
  13. Why would Derick ever contact Jim Bob to be a prayer partner for his missionary work in Nepal? Something about Derick bugs me. His IG and Twitter say he "seeks to glorify Him with my life" yet when I google for Derick and his missionary work, nothing comes up. All I ever see of Derick is Duggar-related. I can't find anything about why he's a Christian, how he grew up in a believing family, really I can't find anything of Derick pre-Jill. I only found this link. I am not sure bustle.com is very credible but this does seem like it could be legit info, based on my personal experience with high school friends who became Southern Baptist missionaries. bustle.com/articles/38901-what-does-derick-dillard-do-jill-duggars-husband-has-been-everything-from-a-missionary-to-pistol This article mentions the Internal Mission Board. It also says that is how JB & DD met. Well.. uh... hmm... that doesn't sound quite right. IMB is an entity of the Southern Baptist Convention. http://www.imb.org/main/pageabout.asp?S ... ageID=1709 The Duggars are most decidedly NOT Southern Baptists. They call themselves Independent Baptist. SBC means something very specific, very well known. Independent can mean anything the Duggars want it to mean. JB & DD did not hook up through the SBC. JB would not have any leadership role in SBC or IMB. JB is not even a member of SBC at all. Derick contacted JB on his own. He contacted JB to be a prayer partner. Why? It really makes no sense for Derick to be soliciting JB. And how did this come to mean conversations between JB and DD? SBC missionaries typically fundraise by visiting churches and establishing relationships with particular churches. It seems unusual to me as former SBC. The SBC church I grew up in sponsored one of my high school friends and his wife as missionaries, this church was small enough that everyone knew what was going on every step of the way. Not that I am an expert or even extremely knowledgable about this, but I know enough to realize it's kinda weird for DD to be contacting non-SBC for support on the mission field. How come there is not more, a LOT more, about Derick in the SBC? What kind of church do he and Jill attend? Will Derick put himself under the authority of a pastor, since JB eschewed that? I did find something where Derick said he hoped to be a father to a daughter like JB. It was all about the Duggars, like Derick's own father is chopped liver? I realize the elder Mr. Dillard did not have a daughter, but I rather thought it was brown nosing up to JB and disregarding his own father. Anyone have any links or info on Derick on his life prior to Duggars? I would like to know, why missionary work? Why Nepal? Did he go straight to the mission field from college? (Thinking he must have. JB said he had been Derick's prayer partner for several years.) Did he go through IMB, is he SBC? What about now? Do the young Dillard's go to church anywhere on a regular basis? I'm an accountant. Being an accountant and having a regular job is a radical lifestyle change from being on the mission field. SBC missionary criteria are strict. Does marrying Jill mean Derick no longer qualifies to be a missionary with them? If he doesn't want to be a missionary any more, how did becoming a Walmart accountant sufficiently replace that. The word that keeps coming to my mind in regards to Derick Dillard... crafty.
  14. Jim Boy is a rich man now. I bet she will be expecting a big present. Maybe, a plot of land to build on later on if she chooses. Derrick got that house to rent because he is the only one who has a job to pay the rent. It is not by any means a present.
  15. The wedding is about a month away. Jill had her McMansion several weeks before her wedding. They need time to decorate and have their pounding.... Not to mention, put aaallll their gifts.... Maybe they just snuggle in Ben-Boy's "guest house" twin....
  16. Was there some sort or revival thing they went to? They looked so normal in the old pics of them? Wonder how Gothard found them.....
  17. ButterscotchEquinox

    "Jim Bob is crying all the time"

    In the current season, when Jill & Derrick are wedding band shopping, J'Chelle comments that J'Boob is crying all the time about Jill getting married. She assumes it is harder for a dad to see his daughter get married. I wonder if this is just some proof (provided unintentionally) of how disconnected J'Chelle is from her offspring? She keeps saying it is bittersweet to lose her children to marriage, but it is always in that saccharine baby voice with no trace of true emotion on her face. Sometimes it seems that she is narrating another person's life.
  18. This was posted on a mommy blog I follow. I LOVE LOVE LOVE THIS!!!! http://www.mommyish.com/2014/09/21/diff ... e-duggars/ Ah, the Duggars. Loyal Mommyish readers know that this family is a topic close to my heart. I actually do like watching the show sometimes- the kids can be such sweethearts and it is clear they all love each other very much but of course, there is a lot to criticize too. However, it can be hard to love them or hate them if you can’t tell Jermajesty Duggar from Joshua Duggar (tricked ya there…no Jermajesty…yet). So, us helpful ladies in the Mommyish offices decided it might be a good idea for you all to have a comprehensive reference in order to tell the key adult members of the family apart (I won’t pick apart the little ones…that’s low, even for me). Behold- the Mommyish guide to differentiating the Duggars. Joshua Duggar The oldest kid in the Duggar clan and the first to have a creepy wedding day first kiss, Josh is starting to make a name for himself in Washington, DC in an attempt to make a go at a career in politics. If the idea of a born-and-raised misogynist having a say in any political policy makes your stomach turn, then join the club. I hate thinking of this creep making decisions about a woman’s uterus when all he has are chaste Duggar balls. Josh, 26, is married to Anna Keller-Duggar and they already have three kids. It would appear they are making a go at out-procreating Michelle and Jim-Bob. Stay strong, Anna’s Uterus! It’s going to be a long 25 years. Jana Duggar Jana, otherwise known as the Duggar Spinster, has somehow reached the ripe old age of 24 without having become a broodmare. She is still just a bride of Denim Jesus, living under her parent’s roof and waiting for her prince to come. I can’t help but wonder if she feels left out when she sees her younger sisters being paired off by Pimp Daddy Jim-Bob while she stays home tending to her gaggle of siblings and taking shifts as kitchen servant and laundry room attendant. I do hope she finds a man soon so her life will have some purpose and she can finally dust off that old uterus John David John-David, twin brother of Jana, has the least remarkable personality of all adult Duggars. There isn’t much I can glean other than he enjoys working as a firefighter and also owns a towing company. He is basically the Duggar’s most eligible bachelor right now at 24 years old so get ready for some future Hand-Sex with some lucky young woman. Jill Jill may be the most newsworthy Duggar of 2014. Jill was recently married to Derick Dillard and is now pregnant with what will be the first of many future #babydillies. This is all under a shroud of suspicion that she and her betrothed participated in pre-marital Sexy Time due to the insanely fast pregnancy announcement they came out with mere weeks after their wedding. I don’t really buy it- my guess is that this wedding was timed to coincide with Jill’s fertile period for maximum immediate pregnancy potential. Yes, I have given this a great deal of thought. For now, Jill is busy registering for Fanta, waxing poetic about barfing for her baby and missing her hubby Derick during laundry time. Jessa Jessa holds the unofficial title of Hottest Duggar Girl and as such, has been courted by teenage Ben Seewald for the better part of the last year. They are now engaged and on the fast-track to making even more Duggar spawn. However, Jim Bob must have thought their relationship was not moving along fast enough and the Lord whispered in his ear that he could use more manual labor so now, Ben lives on the Duggar compound close to his lady and under the watchful eye of Daddy Duggar. For the most part, Jessa does not appear particularly thrilled with this arrangement as she seems perpetually annoyed by Ben and his romantic overtures but that’s ok. Her mom told her she simply needs to be prepared to lay down for Ben whenever he asks if that is what he needs from her. Saith the Lord. Jinger Oh, sweet Jinger (like the spice, not Ringer). The world is watching and praying for her escape. She appears constantly annoyed by her sisters and viewers have taken note of her many eye-rolls when they talk of meeting Mr. Right and their love of all things denim. She broke all of our hearts when she tried to say how much she would love living in the city and her mother swiftly corrected that statement saying that she merely wants to live close to a Wal-Mart and not in the boonies. Dream big, Jinger. We all have our hopes pinned on her eventual escape from the compound so she can write a fantastic tell-all and live her life happily in the city guzzling cups of forbidden coffee and doing nude photography. Michelle Michelle is the original denim worshiper of the Duggar clan and has passed her savvy fashion sense on to her many daughters. Her eerily calm demeanor creeps us all out as does her slavish devotion to her husband and his sexual desires but it’s her insistence on continuing to want more pregnancies despite her near-menopausal age that really makes her stand out. She has been in the news recently for visiting a fertility specialist to see if she should have more children and also, for giving the world’s most archaic sex advice to her daughters. I do have to admit, though- I need to know what pills she might be taking to remain that calm. I only have two kids and rely on a steady drip of Cabernet so I don’t lose my mind. That aspect of her personality is worthy of admiration and study. Jim Bob Lastly, we have good ol’ Jim Bob “Big Daddy†Duggar. He is Lord of his family and their guide in all things spiritual, sexual and otherwise. He had a big year creepily peeping on dates for his daughter Jill and also, getting his daughter Jessa engaged and ready to breed. He believes a woman’s place is in the home and that long, curly hair is where it’s at. There are many who find him super creepy and with good reason- any man that invested in his daughter’s and their virginity is worthy of a healthy dose of side-eye.
  19. actuallyjessica

    does anyone remember when...

    ....benbob supposedly bought himself a house/was thought to be working in a real estate job before he moved to TTH? edit: could a mod move this to duggar snark? i posted it in the wrong section.
  20. youtube.com/watch?v=q4UNgcK4urw#t=11 So Michelle is pretending she actually teaches her own children. And is that Jim Boob acting like he helps. Oh just realized it looks like each older child has their own lap top now. They must have dozens of computers in that house.
  21. duggarfamilyblog.com/ That first picture is priceless. Michelle looks ten years older than Jim Bob, meaning Jim Bob looks about 12. Bloomers. Really.
  22. It's just bothersome how Jim Bob and Michel keep blabbering about not waiting to kiss before marriage. Doesi t make you more special? Kissing is an act of affection. It seems to be a way of one upping each other IMO. I alosget the feeling they wished the had been raised Fundie and had a courtship story to share.
  23. homeschoolmomma1

    The Duggars seem desperate...

    I was thinking today. Jim Bob is marrying off the kids quickly it seems now. Is he worried about TLC money not coming in? Surly he must know the families time in the spotlight might not be forever. I mean they seem desperate just with getting a Facebook account and such. Just a thought...
  24. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=51 ... =2&theater The kids threw water on their parents heads. The Duggars said they donated to a place that does non embryotic stem cell research. Someone in the comments said they had never seen Michelle in pants before, and someone else said we probably never will. I would have posted a picture, but I will let someone else do that. Couldnt they have worn tshirts and jeans/denim skirt? Why did they have to wear such nice clothes? Enjoy
  25. I know, I know, they are Fundamental Christians and staying a virgin until your wedding night is expected, but the lengths that the Duggars go to, not just in the Courting Rules, but also in bathing suit wear for the girls, and their emphasis on no frontal hugs, no dancing... it all leads to tempting impure thoughts (according to them). Is it just me, or does it almost feel like they put so much focus on trying not to have sex, or even stuff they feel encourages sexual/lustful feelings, that it's like that's all it seems to be about. It's almost like it's got a spotlight on it when even innocent affection like holding hands or dancing suddenly is verboten because it might lead to MORE. And JB & J'Chelle dry humping on the mini golf course when on a double date with Ben and Jessa. I mean, who does that?! I would never humiliate my child like that, plus no one wants to be reminded that they are having sex or given a demonstration over mini golf. It's like that and God is their whole focus instead of marriage being about establishing a true friendship and intimacy with your spouse. They don't even seem to be very affectionate or genuinely connected to the kids. It all feels so surface and fake. Everything is always about being Godly and their Faith and not creating lustful thoughts. It's just weird. Not to mention all the "So, what you think? Do you like him/her?" all the time when they barely know one another and are never alone anyways. I also find this crap about giving away pieces of your heart illogical. How is courting any better than dating. If anything, courting would be more hurtful if it didn't work out because it's taken so very seriously with marriage as the intended outcome. Whereas dating isn't always assumed to be all that serious early on or at least not until the couple feels they know each other well. Courting doesn't always work out and people still get hurt. I found it strange that Jessa and Ben were saying I Love You to each other but it wasn't okay to hold hands?! To me, saying I love you is much more intimate than holding hands. Plus publicly calling herself Jessa Seewald before they were even engaged? I mean even if they know that marriage is what's expected, I still think it'[s inappropriate to publicly start calling yourself that until you're married. I just find it strange how they cross some boundaries that most of the women I know wouldn't do in dating, and yet other stuff that is so innocent that it's barely even considered intimacy, like hand-holding, is not allowed. Just feels like way too much emphasis on the physical, on lust and purity and clearly a fear that they would have no self control if allowed to dance or hug face to face or hold hands! It makes me feel like Jessa and Ben are so eager to marry just so they can touch and have sex that beyond being attracted to each other physically, the rest doesn't seem important. And then, no birth control, so you rush into marriage so you can have intimacy and then are probably pregnant within the first six months so you still barely have time to become a couple and really know each other. It's like Jim Bob and Michelle really don't care at all about their kids emotional well being or true happiness as long as they tow the partyline.