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  1. I've been reading at Recovering Grace for quite a while, following the discourse about about the fall of Bill Gothard and ILBP, reading the stories of those ATI members and families trying to recover from years of spiritual abuse, and trying to understand the vehemence and denial of those who still defend this man and the ideals of extreme fundamentalism. This article, addressing the feigned repentance of Bill Gothard, is one of the most thoughtful, powerful and tremendously well-written pieces I've read at Recovering Grace. The author's descriptive analogy of Bill Gothard's failures and those of her own father left me breathless at times. recoveringgrace.org/2014/11/you-cannot-pay-with-words/#more The article speaks about the type of person/family who is attracted to such extremism, and how Gothard, on his own broken, narcissistic path, could manipulate those people to further his megalomaniac empire. The comments are, as always, just as thoughtful and profound.
  2. I feel these past two weddings have demonstrated many things us FJ-ers have brought to lights over the years. Jill and Jessa creating their own wedding styles and life seems to be picking away at the standards demanded by JB and Gothard. I can't imagine JB wanted Ben for Jessa (does not measure up to those courters need to be able to provide for their wives) and Jill marrying a guy she supposedly hadn't met for months, yet fell in love!!! How will he handle the rest of his blessings who have witnessed their older sisters make certain decisions?
  3. I've noticed lately that Ben Seewalds hair has quickly become a replica of Jim Bob's. Why this bothered me so much I'll never know...but I googled it and this is what came up. wtf? specifically check out phase 3. these people are beyond bizarre. in fairness, this is from 2005 and may have changed since, but i seriously doubt it. The sit is xatiguy.blogspotdot.com Hair Design the IBLP Way (and God's way, of course) ATI's newest exciting program... Godly young ladies attending the Hair Design Workshop can become competent and experienced in the skill of enhancing the outward appearance to the glory of God. This ministry may be used in the home to meet the needs of family members, friends, church members, and the elderly. Young ladies must be careful to not cut hair outside this sphere of influence, as such a practice might lead to a profession outside the home, causing satanic darts to pierces through the "umbrella of protection." As we know, this umbrella is only available to a woman while inside her home, provided her father or husband is at home. Also, since accepting others outside your sphere of influence may actually lead to you being paid for your services, this would no longer be a ministry and therefore the Lord will remove His blessing from your work. Lastly, by only making your ministry available to family members, friends (fellow ATI grads), church members and the elderly, you will lessen the attacks of the Devil. Since you may get tempted by a woman of ill repute who may bring a worldly magazine to your home to show you how she would like to have her hair styled -- not to lift her countenance, but rather to draw attention to her . . . womanly attributes, so she can be flirtatious and cause little boys to have lascivious thoughts that could lead to the sin of Onan. So please, keep it in the home, don't make any money off it, and whatever you do, don't do anything that will pop even the tiniest hole in your umbrella of protection. Warning!!! Keep that "Umbrella of Protection" away from the "Hedge of Thorns!!!" These are two very different universal non-optional principals and they cannot be intertwined!!! Phase One of the Hair Design Workshop will include two days of instruction on the attributes of hair! This includes never before heard of insights to the characteristic of human hair that were recently discerned by Bill Gothard himself after he memorized and mediated on the only four hair passages that are found in the Bible. You won't believe what hidden truth he discovered when meditating on Judges 16:17. Blunts and under cuts, advanced techniques in layers, tapers, stacking, male clipper cuts, and much more will be included in the seminar. Instruction will also be given on the only haircut ordained by God for men. Well, most men, that is--those "Queer Eye for the Straight Guys" types are hopelessly lost since they have gone all the way down the reprobation chart and have almost no hope of even climbing their way back. Using the male clipper cut principal, you will be taught how to never leave any hair over the ear or have it touch the white shirt collar or heaven forbid the blue suit collar! Phase Two (advanced) is designed to further equip you in cosmetology skills for your ministry. This course includes advanced techniques in haircutting, hair design, perm wrapping, manicures, pedicures, skin care, make-up, protocol, hospitality, etiquette, and building your ministry. Prerequisite is Phase One completion. Special attention will be paid to hair colors and making sure you understand Godly hair colors as found only in His creation (no hot pinks, greens, blues or other colors found only in the false god worshiping Canaanite culture). Also, while manicures and pedicures are covered (how to trim your nails and clean your hands so they are wholly acceptable to Him), applying any type of color to the nail is not covered, since this is one of the 5 signs of a harlot. Only five to ten minutes is given to make-up, just to reiterate that it is forbidden, and is counter productive to countenance enhancement since it draws the attention of men to your face, and you know first the face, next the bosom and then the . . . aahhh don't you just hate those slippery slopes. Finally, material from the Song of Solomon is not covered until Phase Three! Phase Three is currently under development but can only be attended by pastors wives who have had a hair design ministry in their home for at least 7 years, 7 months and 7 days and have had at least 8 offspring, and have never used any form of birth control (this is includes the rhythm method). Complete memorization of the Song of Solomon required. The main topic covered will be Hair Design and talking to the folks in your ministry about God's heavenly design for conjugal relations. For you Growing Kids Gods Wayer's out there, Gary Ezzo has granted special dispensation to Bill who will explain this to you with a "chalk talk." This features a diagram of a flower with a extremely explicit close up of both the stamen and pistil, all while rapidly repeating I Cor. 6:18.
  4. 1st wiccan fundie

    ALERT Purpose

    What is the point of this ALERT Academy? I've looked at the site and several other information sources on it. Clearly, they get some type of outdoor training and rescue service education but, what is the real point? Other than Jesus shit,excuse my language. What are they suppose to do with this? It's not like it will help become a first responder or look good if you were to apply for the military. And I don't think they really explain well enough what it's intended for. Josiah seems to be there all the time! Anyway anyone have any insight on this? Maybe it's just me - though I find it revolting at least Journey of the heart,( to the heart?,) states their purpose rather clear.
  5. Julie Anne at Spiritual Sounding Board reports on what Bill Gothard has been up to. She even spoke with him on the phone twice. spiritualsoundingboard.com/2014/10/12/bill-gothards-new-programministry-total-success-power-teams/ As anyone might imagine, it's the same snake-oil repackaged with a name ripped from the 1980s-era self-help industry.
  6. LogansMama

    IBLP/ATI Question

    So I was wondering about this last night. Can you be a Gothardite without being a homeschooler?? It seems ATI is intrinsically interwoven into the IBLP program. If not, are you pressured to join ATI?
  7. http://www.religionnews.com/2014/03/06/ ... legations/ Interesting article. Wonder what caused it to drop from 2009? Wasn't Gothard not "charged" until this year... The allegations against Gothard dovetail with financial woes. In recent years, IBLP’s net revenue has dropped significantly, and the ministry is losing money. Between 2009 and 2012, it lost $8.6 million. Its net assets dropped from $92 million in 2010 to $81 million in 2012. It held 504 seminars in 2010, but that number dropped to fewer than 50 in 2012.
  8. Ivycoveredtower

    No shoe modesty!

    Michelle and the girls talks about shoes for Jill's wedding and they are talking about Shoe Modesty. Michelle says we don't have any modesty issues for footwear. because there isn't much you can do that is immodest with a shoe. How ironic consider what Bill Gothard did. http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and ... cpgn=snag1
  9. Radar Online recently posted an open letter to the Duggars written by Megan Lind, a former ATI follower and victim of Gothard's abuse: http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... arassment/ In the letter she details her experience of being brought up in the same way that the Duggars are raising their girls, and says how she was actually punished when she tried to go to the Leadership of ATI to express her discomfort with his inappropriate ways of touching her. She says that ATI and the way the Duggars raise their children, especially the girls, to be completely obedient to adults and not question, sets them up to become victims of such abuse rather than providing the protection that the Duggars think they are giving their daughters. I agree with her. These kids have not been taught how to say no, even if uncomfortable. They have been taught, instead, to be obedient ...even joyfully so (even if they aren't joyful inside...then they are taught that is their fault). If one of these marriages turned out to be domestically violent, would these girls be able to stand up to their husbands, or get help for themselves? Would they be able to leave after they've been told that this this man is now essentially in charge and they have to be obedient to him and allow him to make all the decisions? And the boys too? Would they come forward if they were the victims of sexual molestation at one of their ATI camps? Or would they be ashamed and feel as if it was somehow their fault? Do you think the Duggars heard about/read this open letter?
  10. LogansMama

    A Duggar Dancing Question

    So I watched an old episode where the Duggs answer viewer questions and Jill & Jing were asked the age-old question of why don't the Duggs dance. Jill answered by saying that it stirs up desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled (strangely she never utters the word defrauding). My question is, if that's the reason, why can't married couples dance in the privacy of their homes? In that case those desires would be righteously fulfilled. Plus, it has the added bonus of proving that unless it's a bump-and-grind, it likely won't lead to lust.
  11. Thought this was interesting since it shows images from ATI booklets of some things Gothard believes about birth control. http://redemptionpictures.com/2014/07/0 ... l-gothard/
  12. homeschoolmomma1

    Wisdom Booklets for sale

    I searched Wisdom booklets for sale on Ebay for a few years hear and there. I looked today and I couldn't believe how many were being sold. Of course not the whole set together. Must make more money just doing bits and pieces. I am convinced even though people are not saying so it is because of the Gothard scandal.
  13. Hobby Lobby and its owners, the Green family have supported the Institute in Basic Life Principles for 10 to 15 years, primarily by obtaining four or five facilities for the ministry. In 2001, the Greens, through a family trust, sold Gothard's group a 2,250-acre campus in Big Sandy, Texas, for $10. In 2000, Hobby Lobby donated a 529,717-square-foot building in Little Rock, Arkansas, to Gothard's outfit. The company had purchased this property, a former Veterans Affairs building, two years earlier for $299,000. The Institute now runs a prison ministry out of this location, providing curriculum to a faith-based Arkansas Department of Corrections program known as Principles and Applications for Life. For about a decade, according to Gothard, the Institute leased the ground floor of the building for $1 per year to the Little Rock Police Department for use as its downtown station. Now, Gothard says, the police are paying a regular rental fee. In Nashville, the Institute operates a training center in a former hospital that Gothard says Hobby Lobby purchased for his group. Public records show that in 2005 a corporation affiliated with Hobby Lobby sold the facility to the Institute for $10. The Nashville Business Journal reported that Hobby Lobby bought the building for $3.5 million. It currently houses the Embassy Institute, where the Institute in Basic Life Principles hosts many seminars. The Green family, according to Gothard, also "bought a training center in New Zealand and gave it to us." How's this for scary: Hobby Lobby boasts that it devotes half of its pretax earnings to Christian ministries. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/07/hobby-lobby-bill-gothard-institute-basic-life-principles
  14. One of the posts from Jezebel's talk section got onto the main page, dealing with the Duggars' relationship with Gothard and whether they might be the new, more PR friendly face of Gothard. The writer also speculates that perhaps some Duggars are rejecting/rebelling against some of the more restrictive regulations (specifically Jessa, in not seeming enthusiastic about her courtship and some other bits and pieces like that). I'm not sure I agree with the speculation in the piece, but I love that they're being so clearly associated with IBF and Gothard; I hope more articles like this pop up in highly visible places! Link: http://powderroom.jezebel.com/how-are-t ... 1581883720 I looked around to see if this had been posted yet and didn't see anything so I hope I'm not repeating.
  15. http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/02/ ... ification/ Whatever Gothard faces from this, it's long overdue. ETA not breaking the link since they most probably appreciate publicity on this topic
  16. I haven't seen a thread about this yet, but has anyone else read the story on Recovering Grace about one of Gothard's secretaries? It is in six parts and it long but worth a read. Basically he gets a sheltered young woman and slowly starts grooming her to be submissive to his sexual advances. Being a sheltered ATI student she didn't realize that the things he was doing was wrong even though they made her feel uncomfortable. In the comments he still gets supporters(Alfred in particular sees nothing wrong with what he did). I think he could rape someone and people would defend him. She is not the only young woman he has done this to. I don't think he really had intentions of marrying her, I think he gets sexual satisfaction out of doing this to young women under his leadership. http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/01/ ... -part-one/
  17. http://www.courant.com/community/cheshi ... ory?page=1 Good article. Gothard's comments made me feel ill.
  18. So this morning I was speaking with the headship about Doug Phillips resignation and then we started discussing the "secret sins" of various fundie leaders. He brought up Gothard (being raised in an ATI family himself). He said, without a doubt, that Gothard is gay. Now, he's met Gothard in person several times. Some of the girls from his church were interns for Gothard....and it was when they came back home that they told my husband that Gothard was absolutely gay. And this is from young people who, at the time of being in contact with Gothard, were indoctrinated to believe that no good Christian was possibly gay. So, what's the consensus around here? It certainly makes a lot of sense if Gothard was indeed gay! I mean, the talk of handing over ATI to The Pecan Thief fits right in. And the accusations of him having inappropriate conduct with female interns? My husband says it was his "cover", or him trying to convince himself that he wasn't gay. I guess I'm just surprised that hanging around FJ where you hear every rumor about a fundie being gay, that I don't remember hearing this about Gothard.
  19. A Facebook friend of mine posted this. She even said "This is how I try to run my household." The fact that women are the smallest umbrella makes me stabby.
  20. ljohnson2006

    Not Gay David Mentions Gothard

    davidlovespriscilla.com/2013/09/07/vacation/ If only the Duggars could be as open about their following of him as David is. At least he's honest.
  21. http://www.amazon.com/Rewards-Being-Reviled-Bill-Gothard/dp/0916888304/ref=sr_1_16?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1461955731&sr=1-16 It's free for the Kindle until 8/18. I got it, hopefully I'll read it. I'd never pay money for one of his books but free works.
  22. For someone so anti higher education, why is ok for HIM to so recently obtain a PhD....
  23. From the David and Priscilla thread: The health claims of IBLP bother me; I wish they could be called out on it. lifepurposeheath is full of dangerous nonsense. There is a disclaimer at the foot of the site that (unfortunately) probably saves them from ever being pursued legally for publishing such dreadful twaddle. there's a testimony about the link between envy and osteoporosis lifepurposehealth.com/index.php they cite a doctor who links his own cancer with the unresolved grief for his son's death (apparently the doctor has now been struck off for malpractice, but Bill doesn't mention that) lifepurposehealth.com/index.php/purpose/mystery_of_disease/ they link the suicide of a heart transplant recipient to the fact that the donor had also committed suicide and the recipient inherited the donor's emotions with the transplanted heart lifepurposehealth.com/index.php/memories/power_of_memories/ a teenage abuse victim is persuaded that the abuse to her body was worth it because God compensated by giving her the "potential for a more powerful spirit". She is thus healed of her depression. The character qualities that her abusers were lacking are listed and the girl prayed that the abusers develop these qualities; this 'neutralized' the 'negative influence' of the abuse. lifepurposehealth.com/index.php/memories/case_study_overcoming_abuse/ Mr Gothard and 'entire staff at the IBLP headquarters' prayed away a young woman's angina and asthma. lifepurposehealth.com/index.php/memories/overcoming_fear_and_asthma/ Interestingly, although the woman describes her illness using the words 'angina' and 'arrhythmia', Dr Paine (soon to be Princess Erin's father-in-law) manages to provide a medical opinion of her healing that side-steps some of the nonsense. He notes only that the patient managed to remove 'hypersensitivities' that caused her blocked airways. He should have come down more honestly and said that she had panic attacks and that the prayer relieved her anxiety. He ought to have made clear that prayer is unlikely to resolve the atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries) that leads to a diagnosis of angina. Shame on you Dr Paine. If your medical opinion is that this woman had angina and was cured, then say so after all, that's what the design of the webpage encourages readers to 'see'. If, however, your medical opinion is that she did not have coronary heart disease at all, and that she was cured of breathlessness associated with panic and anxiety, then don't you think you should make that transparent? If I knew how I'd archive or screencap some of the wackier claims, because I'm sure they'll get edited away if IBLP gets publicly embarrassed by them. As it is, the lifepurposecrazynonsensehealth site isn't obviously linkable from the IBLP homepage. Perhaps Bill's changed his mind and it's a fad that he's about ready to disown. From what formergotharite and others have said I get the feeling that a significant proportion of IBLP teaching is based on Gothard's passing whims.
  24. http://imgur.com/a/lVbsQ I was glad to see Gothard's BS being called out in a pretty decisive way on Reddit today. Of course Reddit has more than its fair share of casually sexist man-children, but most of the commenters were pretty shocked at this one.
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