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Musings of the Shepherd on the Rock

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Bernie supporters irritating me


ShepherdontheRock

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Lately, all I'm seeing from my liberal friends is people jumping on the Bernie bandwagon. And apparently he is oh-so-much-better than Hillary because:

-Apparently getting corporate funding means you aren't genuine?

-Also, people who are planning on voting for Hillary(like me) are just voting for her because she's a woman (can't possibly be her effective policy history)

-Apparently Hillary is the exact same as a Republican for policies she used to support but now doesn't (people claiming she's a racist because of this stupid meme about her working for Barry Goldwater in high school)

TBH I don't even mind Bernie, I'm just so irritated at people who look at unrealistic policies (many of which are little more than slogans about how bad Wall Street is) and throw bitch fits about the one candidate that has a legitimate shot at a. keeping Republicans out of the White House and b. actually being able to work with a likely Republican-controlled congress.

I'm not even that enthusiastic about Hillary, but DAMN. I'm just really irritated that people believe bullshit (a lot of times sexist bullshit) and are so fanatic that they can't possibly see any reason why someone wouldn't think exactly like them.

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I'm irritated by the two party system in general. It's time to expand. None of the candidates are doing it for me. I hate that campaigning started 18 months ago. I don't let my kids talk about Christmas or their birthdays until a month before hand. Let's stop letting candidates campaign until only 6 months from election day.

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ShepherdontheRock

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, keen23 said:

I'm irritated by the two party system in general. It's time to expand. None of the candidates are doing it for me. I hate that campaigning started 18 months ago. I don't let my kids talk about Christmas or their birthdays until a month before hand. Let's stop letting candidates campaign until only 6 months from election day.

This^

I wouldn't mind the two party system except nowadays the choice seems to be between centrists and extreme right wing. And I really wish we could overturn citizens United; not against lobbying/corporate financing per se, but it's gotten out of control...

Edited by ShepherdontheRock
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nastyhobbitses

Posted

I like Bernie for having a very stick-to-his-guns style and being very principled (and I agree with a good portion of his principles), but I know full well that his uncompromising demeanor will mean that nothing will get done (because Republicans will vote down everything he tries to put forth), that his principles will be a problem in the election because socialism is sadly still a dirty word/dog-whistle in American politics, and so many of the #feelthebern supporters are so goddamn annoying. I think Hillary's kind of duplicitous and slimy, but she's much more electable. Idealism has no place in American politics today; we need to be pragmatic, and the pragmatic choice is Hillary.

At this point, I'll take anyone who is not Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, or Mike Huckabee. Give those chuckleheads an isolated island to rule and leave us in peace.

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ShepherdontheRock

Posted

100% agree. 

Also, many of Bernie's ideas he hasn't fully explained/are totally impractical.

and Bernie Bros literally remind me of rabid Ron Paul supporters. "He stands up for freedom!"

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nastyhobbitses

Posted

10 minutes ago, ShepherdontheRock said:

100% agree. 

Also, many of Bernie's ideas he hasn't fully explained/are totally impractical.

and Bernie Bros literally remind me of rabid Ron Paul supporters. "He stands up for freedom!"

Whenever I hear about people talking about how so-and-so candidate will magically fix everything and usher in a new era of freedom and ideals they agree with, I think of a conversation I had with my mom. Our state representative (let's call him Bob) is a very involved, conscientious guy who really tries to address constituent concerns, and he makes an effort to listen to everyone. That makes him an awesome state representative, because he actually gives a crap about the people he represents. But a lot of times, constituents basically demand that he do things or pass laws that he simply doesn't have the power to do/pass, or would not fly once they get to a vote. My mom summed it up best: "We live in a democracy, not a Bob-tatorship. Bob can't just say something and make it so."

In general I think people in the US imagine that politicians, especially those in the executive branch, have way more power and reach than they actually do...and that leads to them having way more power and reach than they really should have.

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choralcrusader8613

Posted

2 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

My mom summed it up best: "We live in a democracy, not a Bob-tatorship. Bob can't just say something and make it so."

Totally saving that for future IRL use.

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Walking Cat Bed

Posted

I prefer Bernie to Hillary, on many levels. Especially the perceived honesty factor. Hillary appears more willing to ignore or bend rules that she doesn't like (or change the rules).

If Bernie is nominated, he'll need a more moderate (and youngish and experienced) running mate. Someone who will balance him. Hillary would need someone with unquestionable integrity. 

But I *really* wanted Elizabeth Warren. pouts

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Buzzard

Posted

I have a friend IRL that is running a large portion of his campaign for our state.  OMG the idiocy she posts on FB... She has no understanding of his policies, let alone how they would play out or even what they are.  She posted this long rant yesterday about how #feelthebern would make college free for everyone by taxing the 1% through  a 50 cent tax on every share of stock sold.  Um, WHAT??? Does she have no concept of what a 401K is? That tons of non ebil wallstreet people own stock? That 50 cents PER SHARE is patently ridiculous when you think about buying smaller companies at $8/share?

The idea of "free" is wonderful, except nothing is truly free.

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What works in Vermont might not work in economies of scale. Vermont is SMALL, both population-wise and area-wise. Vermont is incredibly homogeneous. There are far less than 1 Million people who live there. It doesn't have single city with more than 50K people living in it. Vermont is white, liberal, older and non religious. Residents pay among the highest personal taxes in the country. It's place where Bernie flourishes. I just don't know that he can really flourish elsewhere.

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EmmieJ

Posted

I am a Bernie supporter, but I hope I am not an annoying #feeltheBern! person.  I feel Hilary would be more of the same, and that is not good enough any longer.  However, if Hilary gets the nomination and is elected, I do believe she will do a very competent job, she won't run us over a cliff, she knows how to deal with our foreign allies and adversaries.  Bernie Sanders would have a learning curve, but he has served in the Senate for many years, so he's also knowledgeable about how deals are made, how to navigate politics and policies.

Either one of them will be facing obstruction from the Republican side of the aisle.  Republicans have loathed Hilary for decades.  The good news is that she doesn't care, and hopefully she would not bother too much with trying to "work with them" like Obama did.  But she is too cozy with corporate and financial interests for my taste.

The real disaster would be if any of the Republican contenders wins.  I think that is fairly unlikely.  I can't decide if Trump will actually get the nomination, but he's still way ahead of any of the others in the field.  It will probably be either him or Ted Cruz.  Hard to say which of these two would be a worse catastrophe, but I think Ted Cruz would be worse. 

I think Democratic voters are growing ever more cynical about the process and that's why Bernie is doing better than originally expected.  He seems more genuine, less "Beltway insider" than Hilary. 

1 hour ago, Walking Cat Bed said:

I prefer Bernie to Hillary, on many levels. Especially the perceived honesty factor. Hillary appears more willing to ignore or bend rules that she doesn't like (or change the rules).

If Bernie is nominated, he'll need a more moderate (and youngish and experienced) running mate. Someone who will balance him. Hillary would need someone with unquestionable integrity. 

But I *really* wanted Elizabeth Warren. pouts

Hopefully next time around.  I have tremendous respect for her.

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ShepherdontheRock

Posted

1 hour ago, Walking Cat Bed said:

I prefer Bernie to Hillary, on many levels. Especially the perceived honesty factor. Hillary appears more willing to ignore or bend rules that she doesn't like (or change the rules).

If Bernie is nominated, he'll need a more moderate (and youngish and experienced) running mate. Someone who will balance him. Hillary would need someone with unquestionable integrity. 

But I *really* wanted Elizabeth Warren. pouts

Yeah, I don't like the fact that Hillary can be like that. Ironically, I think she'd do better if she were more openly honest about her beliefs; I think she's more liberal than she lets on.

Oh, and I second the Elizabeth Warren!

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HarryPotterFan

Posted

17 hours ago, Buzzard said:

I have a friend IRL that is running a large portion of his campaign for our state.  OMG the idiocy she posts on FB... She has no understanding of his policies, let alone how they would play out or even what they are.  She posted this long rant yesterday about how #feelthebern would make college free for everyone by taxing the 1% through  a 50 cent tax on every share of stock sold.  Um, WHAT??? Does she have no concept of what a 401K is? That tons of non ebil wallstreet people own stock? That 50 cents PER SHARE is patently ridiculous when you think about buying smaller companies at $8/share?

The idea of "free" is wonderful, except nothing is truly free.

That reminds me of an interview Fox News did with a young college student who supported Bernie because of free college tuition (someone posted it to Facebook, I don't usually watch Fox lol). They made her look like an idiot because she had no understanding of how "free college" would actually work, and knew nothing about the economy and taxes. She clearly didn't do her homework ahead of time, which was a shame. She had no idea how much giving everyone free college would cost in terms of tax payer dollars and they got her to say that the 1% should be taxed 90% of their income, or even 100% of their income. Sweetie, that's stupid. You're making everyone on your side look bad.

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nastyhobbitses

Posted

16 hours ago, keen23 said:

What works in Vermont might not work in economies of scale. Vermont is SMALL, both population-wise and area-wise. Vermont is incredibly homogeneous. There are far less than 1 Million people who live there. It doesn't have single city with more than 50K people living in it. Vermont is white, liberal, older and non religious. Residents pay among the highest personal taxes in the country. It's place where Bernie flourishes. I just don't know that he can really flourish elsewhere.

I just finished up a class whose TLDGTC (Too Long Didn't Go To Class) was "it's really not a good idea to assume that a policy that was really successful in Country/Region X will have the same results in Country/Region Y". Just because Bernie Sanders-supported policies work well for Vermont  doesn't mean they'll work well in the whole United States. Just because Finland's education system is super-awesome in Finland doesn't mean it will be super-awesome in South Korea.

Also, in general, it kind of grinds my gears when people (especially those who are quite firmly left-wing like I am) point to countries like Finland or states like Vermont and say "look! They're doing this quasi-socialist thing and it's awesome! We should totally do exactly that thing!" Because like you pointed out with Vermont, a lot of those policies and initiatives work because they're intended for small, generally culturally/racially/religiously homogeneous populations with a very different culture from most of the United States. Context is everything!

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ShepherdontheRock

Posted

19 hours ago, EmmieJ said:

I am a Bernie supporter, but I hope I am not an annoying #feeltheBern! person.  I feel Hilary would be more of the same, and that is not good enough any longer.  However, if Hilary gets the nomination and is elected, I do believe she will do a very competent job, she won't run us over a cliff, she knows how to deal with our foreign allies and adversaries.  Bernie Sanders would have a learning curve, but he has served in the Senate for many years, so he's also knowledgeable about how deals are made, how to navigate politics and policies.

Either one of them will be facing obstruction from the Republican side of the aisle.  Republicans have loathed Hilary for decades.  The good news is that she doesn't care, and hopefully she would not bother too much with trying to "work with them" like Obama did.  But she is too cozy with corporate and financial interests for my taste.

The real disaster would be if any of the Republican contenders wins.  I think that is fairly unlikely.  I can't decide if Trump will actually get the nomination, but he's still way ahead of any of the others in the field.  It will probably be either him or Ted Cruz.  Hard to say which of these two would be a worse catastrophe, but I think Ted Cruz would be worse. 

I think Democratic voters are growing ever more cynical about the process and that's why Bernie is doing better than originally expected.  He seems more genuine, less "Beltway insider" than Hilary. 

Hopefully next time around.  I have tremendous respect for her.

I'm really worried about Marco Rubio getting the nomination. Because Bernie could not survive against Rubio. Maybe against trump or Cruz. 

Tbh, I'm secretly hoping Trump gets the nomination. That could have the potential of watching the Republicans get absolutely slaughtered due to high Latinx voter turnout.

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EmmieJ

Posted

2 hours ago, ShepherdontheRock said:

I'm really worried about Marco Rubio getting the nomination. Because Bernie could not survive against Rubio. Maybe against trump or Cruz. 

Tbh, I'm secretly hoping Trump gets the nomination. That could have the potential of watching the Republicans get absolutely slaughtered due to high Latinx voter turnout.

It's impossible to predict with any certainty at this point, but right now, it seems like Marco Rubio is polling fairly low.  For Republican voters, what he has going for him seems to be:  1) he has political experience and is a current senator; 2) he's got broad appeal in terms of his physical appearance; and 3) more likely to appeal to middle-of-the-road conservatives and perhaps undecided voters.

But, what he has going against him:  1) he doesn't have a stellar senatorial record, having missed quite a few votes.  According to a USA Today article, he's got an absentee record of about 30%, which is greater than any other senator; 2) in 2013, he was part of a bipartisan "Gang of 8" that supported an immigration reform bill that would have provided a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. That is a serious no-no for a lot of Republican voters; and 3) I believe he's got some serious shenanigans in his closet.  If he got the nomination, it's possible that would get a lot more attention than it has so far. One recent article, http://observer.com/2016/01/poor-little-rich-boy/

I don't know anything about Observer News & Politics, or the author, Ken Silverstein, but he seems to be laying out factual information that looks fairly damning.

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This the one election where it's truly a case of who I can tolerate the most. In other words, nobody is really making me happy. I am registered to vote, but no longer belong to any party. I'm of the opinion that it's all corrupt at this point. That said, I'm a Rubio fan. Ted Cruz is too right wing, Trump is....well, Trump and Palin endorsing him solidifies his craziness, Carson has no experience, and we don't need or want another Bush in the WH. Both Bernie and Hillary scare me. Way too left wing liberal for me. I miss the "blue dog" democrats who were willing to work with republicans, and the republicans who recognize that compromise is a good thing. Rubio is the probably the most electable out of all of the republicans. I wish we had a stable multi party system. As it stands now, a third party usually just splits the votes of whatever party it is closest to in ideology. 

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