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I am glad that Lifetime decided to do this recently, otherwise it might have ended up as a limited HBO series; and no one needs that. 

Thank the powers for small favours. Also, I LOL'd.

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"Make out a shopping list," he joked. "It's time you started wearing bras and stopped bobbing up and down. And while you are at it, write down a girdle, too." 

Fuck you in particular Chris. Asshat. I had forgotten how much I truly hated him. They could have gotten out in time to save Boy!Twin but for him.

Also, corrine is terrible. 

Corrine is the worst. At least they gave some motivation to the grandmother - religious fanatic + two dead sons and a daughter who married her uncle. But Corrine, her character just doesn't make sense! She's supposedly this wonderful mother until her uncle brother husband dies, and then she's just the worst person in the world. It's not depression, it's just straight greed. Ugh. 

7 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

But Corrine, her character just doesn't make sense!

This is what has always bothered me.  She was vapid before, sure, but straight up evil?  That doesn't come out of nowhere.  

And Chris senior was so brilliant, yet for all the money he spent that they didn't have it never once occurred to him to spend a little on life insurance?  

Picture Corrine as Ivanka Trump and it's easier to envision how vapid and evil can coexist within the same person.

Corrine is the worse. Yes, Corrine, God forbid your children be upset with you for disappearing for so long and want out of the room they've been locked in for 3 years. 

I can see where she gets it from. Malcolm spoiled her completely and gave her whatever she wanted. The only no I think he ever said to her was over Corrine wanting to marry her uncle-brother. Sure she was kicked out and lost all that money but hey her brother-uncle continued to give her whatever she wanted even when they clearly had no money to do so. It didn't really matter that the job Christopher Senior had kept him on the road every weekday as she still got whatever she wanted. After he dies Corrine had other options she chose instead to spend it writing letters to get money rather then finding a job. She knew her kids were going to be locked up and their only other contact was with her religious fanatic mother to get money rather then once again getting a job. She still chose to do so.  She chose to lie later about secretary school. She also oddly enough kept buying tons of things for her kids. Even though she easily could have taken the money and saved it until she had enough to support her kids on her own. It really wouldn't have taken that long. But she doesn't. Corrine is free to come and go as she wants. Except for that one whipping, Corrine is never treated badly again. Years go by with no change. Years that she had no problem and really shows no signs of caring or even troubled that her kids are still locked up. Its all about Corrine getting what she wants.  

Christopher is also such an asshole.  It is interesting when you think about it. He gets it from Corrine. He wants out of the attic until he sees the encyclopedias for him. He doesn't want to leave because he wants to go to med school. Who cares he's locked in a room with his siblings and being abused as well as starved. None of this yet is enough for Christopher to leave.

Cathy should have taken the twins and left him in the behind.

Another thing with Corrine is that she could (and did) easily find a new man with $$$. Bart may not have had a Foxworth fortune, but he was a lawyer with an upscale clientele. He could have easily supported Corrine and her four children-- if she had bothered to tell him about them.

2 hours ago, FloraDoraDolly said:

Another thing with Corrine is that she could (and did) easily find a new man with $$$. Bart may not have had a Foxworth fortune, but he was a lawyer with an upscale clientele. He could have easily supported Corrine and her four children-- if she had bothered to tell him about them.

Yes, she easily could have. She'd have no shortage of rich men wanting to woo and marry her. She could get all the $$$ she wanted and her kids wouldn't have to be locked up. She'd even have $$$ to hire a nanny to help raise her kids.

16 hours ago, FloraDoraDolly said:

Another thing with Corrine is that she could (and did) easily find a new man with $$$. Bart may not have had a Foxworth fortune, but he was a lawyer with an upscale clientele.

However, if he was marrying Corrine for money, that money goes away if the children exist. 

On 10/22/2018 at 5:04 PM, Maggie Mae said:

However, if he was marrying Corrine for money, that money goes away if the children exist. 

 

 

Yep.  And unless he's a monster himself, "Honey, I have to tell you about this little thing about hiding my kids in the attic to be tortured and neglected to the point of stunting the growth of the youngest two." isn't a conversation that would leave them engaged by the end.

On 10/21/2018 at 5:46 PM, JordynDarby5 said:

It is interesting when you think about it. He gets it from Corrine.

This is a fascinating perspective.  We spend the books getting beaten over the head with his similarities to his father but yes, he takes after her.  His denial and fear of responsibility.

I always assumed wanting to stay to go to med school was just his excuse...he stayed because he was afraid.  Being the eldest and the male in their world the responsibility to care for them all and make the decisions were all on his shoulders and he wasn't up to it.

Unlike Corrine, that's an instance where fear of responsibility is normal.

3 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

This is a fascinating perspective.  We spend the books getting beaten over the head with his similarities to his father but yes, he takes after her.  His denial and fear of responsibility.

I always assumed wanting to stay to go to med school was just his excuse...he stayed because he was afraid.  Being the eldest and the male in their world the responsibility to care for them all and make the decisions were all on his shoulders and he wasn't up to it.

Unlike Corrine, that's an instance where fear of responsibility is normal.

It occurred to me as I was reading the latest recap. I've always assumed Christopher was just like his father and wrapped around his mother's finger like his father was and a very unhealthy love for her (which he does. I do think his father groomed Corrine but I get the feeling she was wearing the pants in their marriage). But reading the current recap made me realize how much he is like his mother. Corrine doesn't seem to care what her children goes through as long as she gets her money. It really doesn't seem like Christopher does either to get med school. They were starved for days, he fed blood to his siblings but then that was all gone when he heard about the encyclopedias. He won't go because he wants to get into med school. While its possible he is scared, he is still a teen and scared at having to support his siblings. After three years he should be fed up, angry and deciding enough is enough and get them out of there. At that point after all the abuse they've gone though and again the last several days of no food. He should be thinking who cares about med school I have to get my sisters and brother out of here. Or thinking he'll put that off and focus on getting out of there. But that all ends when he hears about the books. He's inherited a lot from his mother.

41 minutes ago, JordynDarby5 said:

At that point after all the abuse they've gone though and again the last several days of no food. He should be thinking who cares about med school I have to get my sisters and brother out of here.

Given that he reads so much and wants to be a doctor you'd think he, of all people, would know how serious the twins health issues are and that the severity of their stunted growth means permanantly issues for them for the rest of their lives.

that was something I didn't pick up on reading it as a kid.  I didn't understand not leaving and i REALLY didn't understand why they didn't tell their mother about being starved and beaten and didn't she notice the difference in Cathy's post-tar hair?  I'd have opened with blood drinking and starvation.  But I didn't realize how dark it was for the twins until part 2 and Carrie not catching up.

7 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Given that he reads so much and wants to be a doctor you'd think he, of all people, would know how serious the twins health issues are and that the severity of their stunted growth means permanantly issues for them for the rest of their lives.

that was something I didn't pick up on reading it as a kid.  I didn't understand not leaving and i REALLY didn't understand why they didn't tell their mother about being starved and beaten and didn't she notice the difference in Cathy's post-tar hair?  I'd have opened with blood drinking and starvation.  But I didn't realize how dark it was for the twins until part 2 and Carrie not catching up.

Carrie was also the most psychologically damaged of the siblings. Cathy was able to function quite well in the real world. Chris was a wreck when it came to his personal life, but professionally he was unaffected. But Carrie couldn't cope at all. I remember reading Petals at age twelve and wondering why Dr. Paul never referred that grief-stricken, socially inept little girl with no self-esteem to a child psychologist. (There were plenty of them around in the early 1960s.)

I wouldn't have expected Chris to ponder how living in the attic would affect his siblings psychologically. I doubt he would have had those kinds of books. But physically, yes, I agree. The twins didn't grow. They kept getting sicker and sicker. Cathy could see that even without reading all those books.

10 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Given that he reads so much and wants to be a doctor you'd think he, of all people, would know how serious the twins health issues are and that the severity of their stunted growth means permanantly issues for them for the rest of their lives.

that was something I didn't pick up on reading it as a kid.  I didn't understand not leaving and i REALLY didn't understand why they didn't tell their mother about being starved and beaten and didn't she notice the difference in Cathy's post-tar hair?  I'd have opened with blood drinking and starvation.  But I didn't realize how dark it was for the twins until part 2 and Carrie not catching up.

2 hours ago, FloraDoraDolly said:

Carrie was also the most psychologically damaged of the siblings. Cathy was able to function quite well in the real world. Chris was a wreck when it came to his personal life, but professionally he was unaffected. But Carrie couldn't cope at all. I remember reading Petals at age twelve and wondering why Dr. Paul never referred that grief-stricken, socially inept little girl with no self-esteem to a child psychologist. (There were plenty of them around in the early 1960s.)

I wouldn't have expected Chris to ponder how living in the attic would affect his siblings psychologically. I doubt he would have had those kinds of books. But physically, yes, I agree. The twins didn't grow. They kept getting sicker and sicker. Cathy could see that even without reading all those books.

I'm not sure if Chris would ponder or understand psychologically of living in the attic. But he should have noticed how it was effecting the health of his siblings. They started to notice the twins weren't growing due. But by this point he should also be very concern about the lives of his siblings. They had the first realization things could go wrong when the twins (or was it just Cory) got sick with the flu early on. There is no one really to call for help if one gets really sick. The second realization was being whipped by their grandmother and Cathy's had tar put in her hair. If Olivia's crazy enough to put tar in her hair who knows what she'll decided to do next. The third one is they were left without food for days. Corrine either has no idea what happened which means she doesn't care to find out that her kids were fed while she was away or she did know about it and didn't care. What if that happen again? Or last longer? Or for good? Olivia's crazy enough to do that. Why take that chance? Why not get the heck out of there?  

Paul thinking it was a great idea to send a clearly traumatize eight year old who'd been locked up in an attic for years with her siblings and her twin murdered to a boarding school away from her brother and sister. Yeah, that's a great idea. That unsurprisingly backfired and poor Carrie ended up even more traumatized.  The poor girl needed a therapist and so much help. All three really did after how they were treated by their mother and grandmother. They went through so much. Cathy focused it on revenge. I have no idea what Chris did since he still ended up unable to hate Corrine or say much against her after everything she's done. 

The only defense of Dr. Paul not getting them (especially Carrie) some psychological help that I can think of, is that maybe the kids never told him the extent of the abuse they received. He still could have/should have seen how messed up they were, but even in the 1960s, awareness of mental health issues wasn't as common as it is now. (He ends up having sex with a minor under his guardianship, so I don't really trust his judgement that much.) I guess I'm ambivalent about him!

@WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? I think he’s the most complicated male character VC wrote, which says something  she is terrible at writing men.  It’s like she has no idea they are real people and either predators or saviors.  

She doesn’t seem to get that they are capable of appropriate sexual thoughts.  Or treating women as people.

I think VC's treatment of men  and women is really sad, and makes me think about what her life must have been like. For one, she's really old fashioned, which is fine, as she was born in 1926. So the strict gender roles, the fixation on nice things, the absolutely terrible sex scenes, and the 'rags to riches' narrative makes sense. It sounds like she was pretty much always in pain after she became unable to walk, probably isolated, and very much into art. 

However, that doesn't excuse it, because women throughout history have managed to write male characters who are more than just tropes/caricatures. 

I really want to be done with Flowers so I can move on, I actually don't remember very much of  Petals. I do remember the sex scene that I read when I was like 12 (with Paul), and the miscarriage, and cory's body, but the rest of the plot line? Not so much.  That might say more about me than anything. 

I remember the scene where she is getting ready and duplicating her mother’s look like it was yesterday.  Fluttering green chiffon and I say now what I said then...

why green?  That should have been a blue dress

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

@WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? I think he’s the most complicated male character VC wrote, which says something  she is terrible at writing men.  It’s like she has no idea they are real people and either predators or saviors.  

She doesn’t seem to get that they are capable of appropriate sexual thoughts.  Or treating women as people.

I can't decide if its she's terrible at writing men or doesn't realize there are more then two types predators and saviors. Paul is a perfect example he takes in three kids.  He took in three kids, supported them and sent them to school. A great guy. But him flirting with the underage Cathy and sending poor Carrie to a boarding school. Not getting any of the a therapist to deal with what they went through. Not to mention his back story on how he treated Julia his poor first wife who clearly had issues with sex (she was abused as a child) so naturally he raped her. I mean was it really necessary for VC Andrews to make that Paul's backstory? Couldn't he just be a crappy husband VC? Or it didn't work out? Is she unaware not every man is a rapist or in love with his sister or mother and doesn't see a problem with it? 

1 minute ago, JordynDarby5 said:

Not getting any of the a therapist to deal with what they went through

Well, it was the 60s, so let's just be happy they didn't send Carrie off to get a lobotomy. 

1 minute ago, JordynDarby5 said:

Is she unaware not every man is a rapist or in love with his sister or mother and doesn't see a problem with it? 

Papa in the Heaven series wasn't a rapist. He did, however, think about it. He also sold his four children, one of whom ends up being raped. And Heaven came from rape. Lots of rape. 

Logan was a savior. Tom was pretty good but he ends up mauled to death by a tiger in West Virginia. 

I guess that's another theme - dead brothers.