Esther Shrader (Anna Duggar's sister) living in a pop up

[Witsec7]

You think that one woman getting a job will pay for childcare for seven kids in a state where the average cost of childcare for one child is $10,000 a year? http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/ ... -fail-keep

She's have to make over $100,000 a year just to pay for childcare (considering income taxes, which are higher to make up for no sales tax). It would be cheaper for that family for her to stay home.

The Dalles isn't PDX metro area. I think with his job as a minister they could get the kids local home care with church members. But that would mean not only would Mom be an ebil working women her family would be broken apart.

Seriously, scarcity of child care would be the big issue in the Dalles, and frankly I cannot imagine where she would work out there, maybe as a motel maid or in a coffee shop. I know the child care figures posted by my Uni are averages, but semi rural areas do not command 10k a year for childcare.

[AmyP]

You think that one woman getting a job will pay for childcare for seven kids in a state where the average cost of childcare for one child is $10,000 a year? http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/ ... -fail-keep

She's have to make over $100,000 a year just to pay for childcare (considering income taxes, which are higher to make up for no sales tax). It would be cheaper for that family for her to stay home.

that's a good point. I made a pretty decent, although not spectacular, salary before I started having kids. When I did the math I realized that once I had two kids I would be signing over my entire salary to daycare. It made more sense for one of us to stay home. So yeah, if he won't/can't work she could give it a shot, but they can't both work with all those kids. Unless she works from "home".

[Koala]

Why would they have to pay for childcare? The suggestion here is that dad can't find work so mom should give it a try.

Exactly. It makes no sense for them to be sitting in a tent waiting for people to pay their bills. They need to both actively seek work. Whoever gets the first/best offer needs to take it and start supporting their kids. The other can stay home and take care of the kids they couldn't afford in the first place.

In the meantime it won't hurt a thing for them to apply for every form of assistance they qualify for. Those kids deserve better and it's their parents job to provide it.

[bananacat]

And they look down on me because I have only one child, a college education, and am gainfully employed? *snort* At least my kid has a bed to sleep in and isn't living in a damn tent.

Seriously, if he's having trouble finding a job, then it's time for her to go look for one. Certainly, she can work in a day care or something. Hell, if she worked at a day care, they may let her bring her kids with her. I don't care how much you believe a woman's place is in the home. When things get this bad, it's time to make some sacrifices.

Ugh, no. Can we please stop with this already? No daycare would hire someone who spanks so much. Having kids doesn't automatically make you qualified to work at a daycare and any decent quality one would never let this type of person near children. Let's give actual childcare workers a little credit. There's no way Esther would make it past an interview. Maybe there's a tiny chance she could get a job in a baby room with infants that are young enough that even she wouldn't want to hit them, but even that is unlikely.

If by some miracle she did get a job at a daycare, she wouldn't be able to bring all her kids with her. Most states have laws about the ratio of children per adult, and it's generally less than 7:1. If she brought her kids along, she'd probably require more carers at the center and she wouldn't actually be adding anything. Also, if the husband doesn't have a job then he can take care of his own damn kids.

They should both start looking for the only type of jobs they are qualified for. I hope that one or both of them got enough from the SOTDRT to learn how to make change so they can work as cashiers in a grocery store or something. And then whoever finds a job first should work while the other stays with the kids, or they should both get those jobs and juggle shifts. Yeah, it's hard work but it was their choice to have these 7 kids and if that means never seeing each other to provide decent shelter for them, then that's what they have to do.

[Elle]

The Dalles isn't PDX metro area. I think with his job as a minister they could get the kids local home care with church members. But that would mean not only would Mom be an ebil working women her family would be broken apart.

Seriously, scarcity of child care would be the big issue in the Dalles, and frankly I cannot imagine where she would work out there, maybe as a motel maid or in a coffee shop. I know the child care figures posted by my Uni are averages, but semi rural areas do not command 10k a year for childcare.

That's presuming they could find places for SEVEN kids. It's not like trying to find free care for just one or two. In rural areas of Oregon, there's a shortage of any care. Those who can provide it free or cheap are likely already providing it for someone who's working, and there are legal limits that are enforced about how many kids you can have under one person's care unless they're all your own. Paid child care starts at just under $5k a year in Oregon (just $20 a day is over $5k, so it's not hard to see how it would be at least $4,800 or so a year - it's extremely uncommon to find childcare that cheap. Basically there's no way to get out of paid child care for under $30k a year, if they got a wholesale discount, and finding enough people with the space for seven kids for free isn't likely. They dug themselves into a hole, and even if they wanted her to work, it's really not feasible at this point. I don't feel bad for those idiots though who have chosen this path. I feel sorry for the kids.

With their work history, if he can't find work, it's less likely that she'll be able to. There are fewer jobs for an unskilled women with no work history than for an unskilled man who has a work history. It would make more sense, IF they had the space, for her to babysit, for even $20 a day, someone else's child. That would bring in over $5k a year.

[Elle]

Exactly. It makes no sense for them to be sitting in a tent waiting for people to pay their bills. They need to both actively seek work. Whoever gets the first/best offer needs to take it and start supporting their kids. The other can stay home and take care of the kids they couldn't afford in the first place.

In the meantime it won't hurt a thing for them to apply for every form of assistance they qualify for. Those kids deserve better and it's their parents job to provide it.

Good idea, both of them look and whoever gets a job first takes it and the other stays home.

As long as they're both looking, they'd qualify for cash aid, and WIC provides three gallons of milk and then some per child per month, plus a pound of cheese and a bunch of other stuff. Too bad they wouldn't do it for the kids.

[Witsec5]

Wow! How very sad. This is "quivering reality." I just can't imagine mommy homeschooling in this environment. It's a tense, dysfunctional way to live with nine people cramped together like that. And having to keep sweet; I can't imagine. Frustrations would worm their way out in insidious ways. I hope for the best for all of them and that they all keep their sanity. Reality has reared it's ugly head! Maybe Anna should stop eating out every night and help her sister out? The cost for Josh's fast food meals alone would cover the monthly rent on a small place.

There are some states where jobs are plentiful. It gets cold in North Dakota but apparently the economy is doing very well there and a low-skilled worker can find a job. Some couples alternate shifts. Why can't hubby watch the kids at night and wifey watch them during the day? Oh that's right, can't do that. They are fundies.

[BravaAmica]

Ok this is bigger than the Colemans I was familiar with. Heres the floor plan :D

http://www.gillettesinterstaterv.com/cf ... ductid=626

The dinette makes into a bed, which will sleep two small kids [head to toe]. The L-shaped sofa could sleep two small kids. And one of the king sized beds could sleep about four or five small kids [also head to toe].

So they're not taking any government assistance? None? Not even food stamps or WIC??!!!! That's appalling.

[emmyfair]

Good idea, both of them look and whoever gets a job first takes it and the other stays home.

As long as they're both looking, they'd qualify for cash aid, and WIC provides three gallons of milk and then some per child per month, plus a pound of cheese and a bunch of other stuff. Too bad they wouldn't do it for the kids.

Elle, that's pretty much what I meant.

eta - I live in Canada. My perspective might be slightly different from yours.

[Witsec7]

He took a ministry job in an area of Oregon that really has nothing but seasonal jobs so he could preach. There literally is no work out that way. She's not gonna get hired as a waitress, and perhaps doesn't even have a chance as a motel maid. Hood River may have seasonal jobs, but there are wind rats that take them at minimum wage so they can be on the river when they are not working. Neither would or could work in one of Hood River's brew pubs. I don't think he has any job skills. There may be field work, but apples and pears don't come in until late summer and fall. At minimum wage for the number of folks in their family they could qualify for a child care subsidy if there are openings. He certainly couldn't work in the woods. They're not going to apply for FS since at some point social services would find they were living in substandard housing and place them in a real house. Nah these folks are screwed and they screwed their kids.

[BravaAmica]

The Dalles isn't PDX metro area. I think with his job as a minister they could get the kids local home care with church members. But that would mean not only would Mom be an ebil working women her family would be broken apart.

Seriously, scarcity of child care would be the big issue in the Dalles, and frankly I cannot imagine where she would work out there, maybe as a motel maid or in a coffee shop. I know the child care figures posted by my Uni are averages, but semi rural areas do not command 10k a year for childcare.

Holy cats, I missed the part where y'all mentioned they're living in the Dalles. My ILs live in that area. There's not much of anything out there- minimal jobs, a community college, a decent hospital, a Google server farm [but Google didn't employ locals from The Dalles, they brought people in, IIRC.] some windmills, the Columbia river. Gorgeous country but I'd never live there. Jobs are thin on the ground. Very, very thin on the ground. If an employee was witnessing instead of working, he'd be fired in a New York minute and replaced with someone who wants to, you know, work.

It's also windy as hell, year round. Hot as hell in the summer, cold as hell in the winter.

[pomology]

Also the "Abortionist" picture he posted is horrid. When you have to explain the pronunciation of your children's names at every turn, it was a dumbass idea to name them that.

Haha, something just occurred to me as I was about to defend the children's names because I love my name that I constantly have to explain the pronunciation of and the fact that at least Aletheia and Agape are words that I encountered in my minimal study of ancient Greek.

Anyway, the etymology of the word aleitheia, which, as he points out means truth, is this: The Lethe River is in Hades and dead people drank its water to forget their previous lives. A-letheia literally means not forgetting and later came to mean truth.

My point is that dumbass named his daughter after a pagan Greek myth. Also, fundies have no idea what truth actually means.

[emmiedahl]

You think that one woman getting a job will pay for childcare for seven kids in a state where the average cost of childcare for one child is $10,000 a year? http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/ ... -fail-keep

She's have to make over $100,000 a year just to pay for childcare (considering income taxes, which are higher to make up for no sales tax). It would be cheaper for that family for her to stay home.

If both parents were working, they would be eligible for free or very low cost childcare assistance from the government. There are weird loopholes, like you cannot be in school while receiving it in my state, but it is there. And if my children were functionally homeless, I would be doing whatever was necessary to end the situation.

As for housing assistance, it comes in many forms. There are apartments run by Section 8 in their town. I live in this type of housing project--yes, it is the projects--and it is a stripped down, bare minimum type apartment that charges around half of what a normal home with the same number of beds and baths would cost. I pay around $900 a month for a 4 bedroom, which would be roughly $1500-2000 on this half of town. I looked, and there are indeed vacancies in their local complex. There are usually one or two in mine, although some people have to wait a month or so. But you are correct about the housing vouchers in which you pay a percentage of your income in rent and HUD pays the rest. I have been on the waiting list to get on the waiting list for two years now. And again, I am not even on the real waiting list! I suspect I will be a doctor before I make it on.

There are like no jobs in their town, which is why it was such a bad idea to move there. But I bet there are always minimum wage jobs in Biggs, the neighboring town, which is somewhat of a hub for traffic between WA and OR. They will need to move somewhere to get out of this mess, and I don't think Africa is exactly the right place.

[Witsec7]

Yea somewhere he latched on to the old Heidegger chestnut not realizing that Heidegger revised his views decades later. SODRT will never beat a good liberal arts education.

[Elle]

Wow! How very sad. This is "quivering reality." I just can't imagine mommy homeschooling in this environment. It's a tense, dysfunctional way to live with nine people cramped together like that. And having to keep sweet; I can't imagine. Frustrations would worm their way out in insidious ways. I hope for the best for all of them and that they all keep their sanity. Reality has reared it's ugly head! Maybe Anna should stop eating out every night and help her sister out? The cost for Josh's fast food meals alone would cover the monthly rent on a small place.

There are some states where jobs are plentiful. It gets cold in North Dakota but apparently the economy is doing very well there and a low-skilled worker can find a job. Some couples alternate shifts. Why can't hubby watch the kids at night and wifey watch them during the day? Oh that's right, can't do that. They are fundies.

My brother-in-law was making $5k a MONTH working two weeks a month. Like a dumbass, he quit because he didn't like the schedule. Every day from the 1st through the 14th of the month, the rest of it off. When he quit, his mom wanted to kill him. His wife took their kids and left him. He's unskilled, and was making a fortune, and just up and quit because that was too much work for him.

Jobs in North Dakota pay very well right now. I've got a lot of family there, and am trying to figure out how to convince my husband that maybe we should look into moving there.

[Childless]

Ugh, no. Can we please stop with this already? No daycare would hire someone who spanks so much. Having kids doesn't automatically make you qualified to work at a daycare and any decent quality one would never let this type of person near children. Let's give actual childcare workers a little credit. There's no way Esther would make it past an interview. Maybe there's a tiny chance she could get a job in a baby room with infants that are young enough that even she wouldn't want to hit them, but even that is unlikely.

If by some miracle she did get a job at a daycare, she wouldn't be able to bring all her kids with her. Most states have laws about the ratio of children per adult, and it's generally less than 7:1. If she brought her kids along, she'd probably require more carers at the center and she wouldn't actually be adding anything. Also, if the husband doesn't have a job then he can take care of his own damn kids.

They should both start looking for the only type of jobs they are qualified for. I hope that one or both of them got enough from the SOTDRT to learn how to make change so they can work as cashiers in a grocery store or something. And then whoever finds a job first should work while the other stays with the kids, or they should both get those jobs and juggle shifts. Yeah, it's hard work but it was their choice to have these 7 kids and if that means never seeing each other to provide decent shelter for them, then that's what they have to do.

There are laws she would have to follow should she work in a daycare facility. I doubt she'd be spanking children. And one would think she could suck it up and follow the rules if it meant bringing in some money to feed her kids.

I wasn't thinking she'd bring all seven kids with her. Some of them are school age certainly and could be enrolled in the local elementary school. Besides, with dad out of work, he should be able to stay home with most of the kids.

[Childless]

From Jan 2011

So, he quit his job and moved his young children into a tent without enough food because he didn't like the music? What a whiny little boy. There are several aspects of my job that I do not like (the biggest being the fact that I'm currently doing the jobs of 3 people because they refuse to hire anyone), but I don't up and quit over it. I have a family to feed, clothe, and house. My son shouldn't be made to suffer because of my delicate sensibilities. This man needs to grow a pair and start doing what is in the best interest of his family instead of being a selfish ass.

[Witsec7]

Esther and her husband were rescued out of debt and bought a van by family members, this isn't my concept of the lord providing. I'm betting that they will be rescued by family once again. They either have their trailer parked at the church or sitting in someone's backyard plugged in. I'm sure they aren't even paying for electricity . The husband has less sense than Josh he was flying out hwy 84 (a death trap) in the snow, with ice on the road, taking pictures of Mt. Hood in his rearview mirror. I've driven that route many a time and in some foul weather, it's not nice, and you must stay focused, there are triple trailers that make that run and will blow an empty 15 passenger van right off the road.

@ childless He quit so he could minister and raise money to go on his mission.

[bananacat]

There are laws she would have to follow should she work in a daycare facility. I doubt she'd be spanking children. And one would think she could suck it up and follow the rules if it meant bringing in some money to feed her kids.

I wasn't thinking she'd bring all seven kids with her. Some of them are school age certainly and could be enrolled in the local elementary school. Besides, with dad out of work, he should be able to stay home with most of the kids.

Of course she wouldn't hit the kids, because she'd never get hired in first place. But since hitting is her primary form of punishment, no daycare would hire her since she has no experience with disciplining kids in a non-violent manner. Geez, popping out a bunch of kids doesn't automatically make someone qualified to care for children. She's not qualified to work at a daycare at all and it would be very difficult for her to get hired at one. I'm so effing sick of everyone thinking that childcare work is just basically unskilled labor that any fundie could easily do. No, there's more to it than that. Give carers a little more credit. Not every daycare working needs a college degree in early childhood education/development, but they need at least some skills and some training.

[MarciaBrady]

All 7 of those children are daycare age? Really? I just assumed the oldest 2 would be old enough to go to school, which would solve the problem of figuring out what to do with at least a couple of the children while the parents work.

Does anyone know the ages of the children?

[Alecto]

If they were serious, one could work day shift and one could work second or graveyard shift...

[Witsec7]

Of course she wouldn't hit the kids, because she'd never get hired in first place. But since hitting is her primary form of punishment, no daycare would hire her since she has no experience with disciplining kids in a non-violent manner. Geez, popping out a bunch of kids doesn't automatically make someone qualified to care for children. She's not qualified to work at a daycare at all and it would be very difficult for her to get hired at one. I'm so effing sick of everyone thinking that childcare work is just basically unskilled labor that any fundie could easily do. No, there's more to it than that. Give carers a little more credit. Not every daycare working needs a college degree in early childhood education/development, but they need at least some skills and some training.

This

IRRC there is one upscale day care/preschool out by the Hosp. I doubt they would take her, the Lutherans (who have good programs in OR and qualified staff) wouldn't take her and she doesn't have the qualifications to work for Head Start.

Alecto, she live's in bumbuck Oregon where there are no jobs. The biggest employers in that area are the State, cities (Dalles and Hood River), schools, CC, and Hosp.

[Childless]

Of course she wouldn't hit the kids, because she'd never get hired in first place. But since hitting is her primary form of punishment, no daycare would hire her since she has no experience with disciplining kids in a non-violent manner. Geez, popping out a bunch of kids doesn't automatically make someone qualified to care for children. She's not qualified to work at a daycare at all and it would be very difficult for her to get hired at one. I'm so effing sick of everyone thinking that childcare work is just basically unskilled labor that any fundie could easily do. No, there's more to it than that. Give carers a little more credit. Not every daycare working needs a college degree in early childhood education/development, but they need at least some skills and some training.

And is there any reason why she couldn't get the training needed? My parents spanked us as children, but have never laid a hand on my son because they know I don't agree with spanking. So, the fact that she spanks her kids isn't an indicator that she would try and spank someone else's child. I'm sure this woman is smart enough to learn any new skill she might need to get a job. I'm tired of people assuming someone is an idiot or would be unwilling to pick up new skills if they really wanted to do so. I agree that she won't ever get a job at a daycare, but that's mostly because she won't try to get a job anywhere. But, should she have an epiphany and decide that her childrens' well being is more important than a silly belief of what a woman should do with her life, then I think she'd be capable of learning how to be a care giver or a secretary or any other undegreed job she wished to try.

[tabitha2]

Wal-mart will hire anybody who does not do drugs and has no felonies.

[Witsec7]

Wal-mart will hire anybody who does not do drugs and has no felonies.

It's not built yet, they don't have one, they live in bumfuck.