Josh courting before Anna?

[FloraDoraDolly]

Really? Who? Certainly not his parents.

I can see Josh molesting his sisters. I've been a victim myself. Spare the comments like " I don't see it in his character."

Those things are committed by all kinds of men.

Sexually oppressed, hormon-infused teenage Josh tempted by a "defrauding" cleavage? Yes, I could toally see that. AND I could totally see his parents protecting him. As in, this doesn't need to be made public, it's the girl's fault, etc. Even not-fundy families tend to react like this.

But how in the world would Oprah have found out about something like this? She met the Duggars once when they did her talk show. I highly doubt she had even a minute of alone time with any of the children. Even if she did, I can't imagine those girls spilling the family secrets to a total stranger whose TV show they probably never saw until they appeared on it.

Yes, sadly there are boys-- including "nice" and "normal" boys-- who molest their sisters. Alison Arngrim of "Little House on the Prairie" wrote about this in her recent autobiography, although in her case her older brother was neither nice nor normal. But I don't think it's right to accuse Josh of something so horrible when the only source of information is an anonymous Internet poster of questionable credibility.

[lilwriter85]

But how in the world would Oprah have found out about something like this? She met the Duggars once when they did her talk show. I highly doubt she had even a minute of alone time with any of the children. Even if she did, I can't imagine those girls spilling the family secrets to a total stranger whose TV show they probably never saw until they appeared on it.

Yes, sadly there are boys-- including "nice" and "normal" boys-- who molest their sisters. Alison Arngrim of "Little House on the Prairie" wrote about this in her recent autobiography, although in her case her older brother was neither nice nor normal. But I don't think it's right to accuse Josh of something so horrible when the only source of information is an anonymous Internet poster of questionable credibility.

A couple of years back, Casey Anthony's parents George and Cindy almost went on Oprah, but the interview/taping was canceled. A rumor that floated around was that Oprah's team looked into public records regarding the investigation in Caylee's death, due to the Florida Sunshine law and they dropped the Anthonys from the guest list. The public records that included law enforcement interviews didn't put the Anthonys in the best light. Cindy Anthony had lied on a episode of Dateline in December 2008.

If something fishy or scandalous happend with the Duggars, it possible that Oprah or her team could have found something out. I really don't think the molestation rumors are true though.

[marmalade]

There is only one way to get to the bottom of this: Have someone head over to DWOP and ask Cyn. She knows everything there is to know about the Duggers and can provide citations. However, be aware whatever she does know she will spin to prove that the Duggars are THE BEST FAMILY EVER!!11!!

Sadly, Cyn has been conspicuously absent, even since the new season started airing. Not too many fangirls left over there these days, and the ones that are left are so easy to blow out of the water with the slightest bit of fact. SOTDRT educations, no doubt.

[NurseNell]

I think it is just as important (more important?) that we not perpetuate such a rumor, since with nothing at all to back up such allegations that is exactly what it is, simply because we get the impression that Josh could be the type of person who might do that. I don't think that's fair.

Agree.

[ophelia]

Agree.

This.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Unless Josh or the Holts speak up, I'm going to go with the idea that this story took on a life of it's own on the internet. At 15 no one is mature enough to really know if it's the right person.

I'm giving both Josh and the Holt girl the benefit of the doubt here.

[Crawaza]

Absolutely amazing that this was true and the suspicions were there all along. I remember seeing an episode where the father Duggar stated his son wouldn't be joining him because of "sin in the camp". Friend and I were laughing when we heard that - sin in the camp, what happened? And now we know!

[JumpingD]

Wow

[coffeebean7]

I'm so glad you bumped this thread. It's so creepy that this turned out to be true. :shock:

[jinseng]

Is there any way to find out who Alice is?

Assuming Alice is her real name, we know she attended the Duggar's church, was a homeschool mum in the area, was friends with the Duggars and Holts, tried ATI but gave it up... what else can we piece together about her?

[lilwriter85]

I re-read this thread earlier today. It is crazy that years ago I didn't believe the rumors. I now wonder exactly who Alice is. I wonder if she attended the same church as the Duggars or was a former neighbor. I remember gossip on twop years ago that former neighbors of the Duggars had told people that Michelle was constantly yelling at the kids, especially the older girls aka JSlaves

[lilwriter85]

Is there any way to find out who Alice is?

Assuming Alice is her real name, we know she attended the Duggar's church, was a homeschool mum in the area, was friends with the Duggars and Holts, tried ATI but gave it up... what else can we piece together about her?

I don't think we will ever find out who Alice is or if that was her real name. As I said before, it possible she attended the same church as the Duggars years ago. She could have been connected to the Holts or the homeschooling community. Alice being an associate/friend of the Holts is another strong possibility. There has been gossip for years about some fundie and homeschooling families turning against the Duggars.

I think Josh's molestation of his sisters appears to have been some kind of open secret with some people in the Duggars' area.Back in 2010, I used to hang out quite a bit on the IMDB boards for the Duggars' show and rumors about Josh molesting younger siblings was discussed there, but most people didn't believe it.

[JustMeJilly]

I wondered if anyone who didn't believe Alice all those years ago would go..."Ahhhhhh...so she WAS right".......so sad...and what the girls must have GONE through and what they are about to go through...unless of course Mom and Pops are keeping them from seeing any media at all.....jeez...I just wish one of them would just say..."the heck with this craziness, I'm going to college!!"

[sense and nonsense]

moved posts

Can we not do this? It's bad enough for the other four victims to be exposed completely.

ETA: Against their will.

[stabbycat]

Can we not do this? It's bad enough for the other four victims to be exposed completely.

ETA: Against their will.

Agreed. If the 5th victim wants to be known, she will go to the media.

[rosaline]

I apologize for offending. I agree with this principle and that was really why I posted--to say that it's definitely not [redacted] to sort of "free" her from the speculation. I realize now that it could give people a way to sleuth out the 5th girl. Mods, please feel free to remove my previous post (it's past the edit window for me).

ETA last phrase.

[IzzyM]

Wow.

Its's insane reading this old discussion nowadays. It all seemed so disconected: sin in the camp, sisters being molested, Oprah... And in the end it is all true. So sad

[blessalessi]

This is a weird thread to read!

I think I started lurking here round the time Razing Ruth was exposed and it is amazing how similarly "she" and Josh were defended, even by quite robust thinking members here.

Fair enough too, as there was no evidence until each story was finally exposed, but it shows how so much can be hidden in plain sight for so long!

I wonder which of todays speculation and rumours will be tommorows scandal?!

[theinvisiblegirl]

Absolutely amazing that this was true and the suspicions were there all along. I remember seeing an episode where the father Duggar stated his son wouldn't be joining him because of "sin in the camp". Friend and I were laughing when we heard that - sin in the camp, what happened? And now we know!

Jim Bob once mentioned sin in the camp? Really? I'd love to see/hear that.

[rosaline]

Jim Bob once mentioned sin in the camp? Really? I'd love to see/hear that.

If you search for that phrase, you will see a million threads on it.

[Boogalou]

!	{TEXT1}:
	If you see inappropriate speculation please report it so we can remove it. Feel free to respond without identifying information but if you quote what you are responding to it makes more work for the mods later. Thanks!

[DaisyD]

Like so many, I've been lurking here for a while and finally decided to post after all the craziness now.

On the first page there are two quoted posts. I haven't seen anyone comment about the second one since it was pulled back up.

In 2005 someone called "concernedmom" posted about a friend of hers (third hand I know, but now this stuff fits). There's a possible time line here.

•At some point in 2002-03 Josh was betrothed to one of the Holt girls. (I say this because he was betrothed to the same girl later with the whole sin in the camp thing and it was the girl's father.)

•This is when he violated concernedmom's friend's daughter (the victim that wasn't a Duggar) and the betrothal was ended (this seems to be mentioned in the police report as well).

•Then in 2006 he was again betrothed to the Holt girl when he worked on her father's campain.

•At some point he did something inappropriate with another girl (not the Holt girl) that broke the betrothal again. This is the "sin in the camp" thing we've heard about.

I suppose we can only hope the incident in 2006 was consensual with someone age appropriate.

This is all pure speculation of course, but putting it all together seems to make sense. I'm wondering if the original betrothal was the Duggar way of refocusing Josh's attention from his sisters?

The whole thing is really sad, and the order things happened in doesn't matter to the victims. I'm just one of those people that needs more context with things like this.

One thing is for sure. Whichever Holt girl he was betrothed to dodged a huge bullet. It seems he was interested in anyone but her.

[Alexa]

It is crazy to read over this and see how people were speculating about this years ago. I hate that when I read this I defended Josh to myself and thought that he'd never actually molest someone, but was in trouble for masturbating or kissing/holding hands with a girl. I can only imagine how frustrated "Alice" was that most people didn't believe her.

[Jenesis]

It is amazing that Josh's actions were buried 2 times and finally this year it got the attention of the media! Strange, it is very strange.

[nastyhobbitses]

It is amazing that Josh's actions were buried 2 times and finally this year it got the attention of the media! Strange, it is very strange.

I think a lot of it is because around 2013-14, the Duggars' profile really rose, what with the quick-succession marriages and pregnancies and endless promotion by TLC after Honey Boo Boo went bust. I think it all came out when it did because they were just so out there in everyone's faces, and exposing it became easier. That, and I think that now that most of the kids are a bit older (namely, all parties involved in what happened are adults or very close to adulthood), there was less guilt about exposing everything or worry about the media hounding child victims.

I'm glad the cat's out of the bag and now everyone knows that all was not well and that maybe the way the Duggars raised a family is not sustainable or healthy, but I wish TLC hadn't given them a show (since I'm pretty sure they knew) and that Josh had gotten proper help when he was a teen.