CanticleoftheTurning

Duggars and the Bill Gothard Cult

23 posts in this topic

Hi guys--I've made a blog post about why I'm scared and angry for all the Duggar kids, and why I'm not happy about #20.

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/running-with- ... ild-abuse/

 

(not breaking 'cause it's my own).

 

If I missed anything, please feel free to comment here or on the blog (quick registration w/ email--they don't spam you.)

 

I can always go back and edit the post with additional links of evidence.

 

It's funny. I started out thinking that ATI/IBLP are really weird organizations--very conservative and not what I would do, because of the theological differences and issues. I just thought that the fundamentalist lifestyle is a bad way of going about raising kids, because as Princess Leia told Darth Vader, the tighter you hold on, more will slip through your fingers. (paraphrase).

 

Then after #20, I really started researching to figure out why my initial reaction was an angry/fearful one, and found out that the Duggars had, at least at one point, abused their children (no idea whether they still hit babies with rulers). The biggest thing was that they were neck-deep in ATI/IBLP, and that is DEFINITELY an abusive cult--exposing children to the life of a cult is serious shit, and that alone is abusive to the kiddos, whether or not the Duggars still use the Pearls' training methods. (I suspect they do, because of the whole Amazon Blitz thing...)

 

I wonder how long before I get nasty comments by ATI/IBLP people? :lol:

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I just started reading it. I never knew about the blanket training with rulers. It disgusts me. But one thing that just jumped out at me, I do not believe Joe Paterno is a child abuser. I haven't read much on the whole situation at Penn State but it is my understanding Joe reported the incident(s) that he had become aware of to his higher ups. Correct me if I'm wrong. What makes him a child abuser?

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I just started reading it. I never knew about the blanket training with rulers. It disgusts me. But one thing that just jumped out at me, I do not believe Joe Paterno is a child abuser. I haven't read much on the whole situation at Penn State but it is my understanding Joe reported the incident(s) that he had become aware of to his higher ups. Correct me if I'm wrong. What makes him a child abuser?

He participated in the cover up by failing to report it directly to the cops,in addition to notifying his superiors. After all, he was the head of the football department, so he had the power to take things into his hands--and he didn't. A former assistant explained that Joe Paterno "knew everything" that was going on, and suggested he knew about it sooner, but didn't report it, and thus, aided in the child abuse.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/45283472/ ... football//

mattpaknis.blogspot.com/

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He participated in the cover up by failing to report it directly to the cops,in addition to notifying his superiors. After all, he was the head of the football department, so he had the power to take things into his hands--and he didn't. A former assistant explained that Joe Paterno "knew everything" that was going on, and suggested he knew about it sooner, but didn't report it, and thus, aided in the child abuse.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/45283472/ ... football//

mattpaknis.blogspot.com/

Thanks. Like I said I haven't read very much on this case at all.

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Thanks. Like I said I haven't read very much on this case at all.

I'm not a sports person either and don't read much about the case either--but these links really showed me how sick the people involved are.

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Thank you so much for writing this!!! I want to post it on FB, but need to decide if I want to upset my sister (which I don't...).

Thanks, it's wonderful!

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Thank you so much for writing this!!! I want to post it on FB, but need to decide if I want to upset my sister (which I don't...).

Thanks, it's wonderful!

So glad you like it! :) There is a way to post things on FB and still hide things from specific people. If you still want to try (no pressure) you can do this.

When you click on the box and copy and paste in the link, there is a tab that shows up "Options" by the Submit button. Click on "Custom" A new box will show up. Under "Hide this from" enter in your sister's name, and then save changes.

It becomes the new default for all future posts. So on your very next post, you'll have to go through and unclick your sister's name from the Custom tab. The hidden ones will stay hidden.

I hide certain things from some people on FB because I know it would set off a firestorm that I don't feel like taming at the moment, lol.

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Excellent post! The Duggars are, oddly enough, not the most interesting fundies to me. But then I have to remind myself how pervasise they are in the media and pop culture, and how many people think they are just so sweet and nice they are. It is important to get the word out there (to people who aren't obsessed with these particular subcultures like those of us at FJ are) that their ideas are really more insidious and dangerous than they appear. Thank you for this - I will likely share with some "real life" friends too, if you don't mind!

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Oh that's a good idea, Canticle. I'll try it again - last week I did that, and it insisted on making the post to "only me". Why is that even an option? :D But I'll do that again and ask a friend if she can see it. Although - really the post would be FOR my sister, because I fear she may be raising my niece in that mindset, although more worldly - they know who Queen is :D And her husband is pretty grounded, I can't imagine him letting his daughter go the whole courtship route.

Yeah...I think I'll do what you suggested, to help spread it around at least.

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great blog post! I never knew about Michelle and the ruler. Its really sad that babies are treated like that. I remember being "spanked" when I was little, but with my parents a hi five, would have been more "forceful". But we were old enough to know we really did something BAD, and would be more upset about disappointing our parents. And babies, that young should have the opportunity to do what babies naturally do, its so sad to think of a mom doing that to an infant. I am worried about the older children enforcing it onto the young ones they too often attend regularly. Have the broken with ATI, or do they still follow 100%?

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Feel free to post on FB :) That's why I wrote it--so people can find it when googling and then share it. Atheistjd, I agree--it's exactly because of how sneaky/pervasive the Duggars are that I'm writing this. I had to pwn two friends on Facebook after they posted links to articles that were quite positive about #20. I think a lot of people didn't really want to hear it.

So far, I've been checking Google Analytics to see what keywords people used to find my article, and some were about "duggars are abusive" or "duggars blanket training." Hopefully over time the article will rise a bit higher in Google rankings.

Mythicwings--I REALLY hope your sister's husband is strong enough to stand up to the worst of the fundie shit. At least you're around, so if your niece ever needs an outside view of the whole thing, she can ask you.

Mrs, judging from how prominent ATI and Vision Forum are on the Duggars' website, I think they're certainly still neck deep in the cult muck. If they were breaking free of ATI, then I wouldn't be as worried about all 20 kids. Slightly, but not as much. I was spanked as a kid, too. If spanking is to be allowed, the way my mom did, just one swat to the but, is the way to do it for kids younger than reasoning age, but older than babyhood. My dad did it in anger, but not to the extent as say, Judge Adams. That's the other thing about blanket training--babies do explore! It's better to put them in a crib or a playpen than it is to scare them into staying on the blanket.

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That's an amazing post. I really like how you outline the characteristics of cults and have links for all of them. I'll have to check out those links, I bet there is a treasure trove of information.

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Awesome post. Thanks for sharing.

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That's an amazing post. I really like how you outline the characteristics of cults and have links for all of them. I'll have to check out those links, I bet there is a treasure trove of information.

It took me a couple of days to track down all the links--and yet I'm sure there's more I've missed. I did my best to find different articles or sites to illustrate each cultic characteristic, but sometimes there was a really long article that I used a couple of times--like a different page of the article.

I still welcome any additional links that I may have missed :) I remember reading somewhere about kids being overworked contrary to child work laws, in one of the Gothard camps, but I couldn't find that article again, for example.

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Very good, Canticle!

I found a dead link, under:

"people defended the Duggars' right to choose"

I don't know if you want to include a link that actually leads to TTUAC's full text, but here is one:

http://www.achristianhome.org/to_train_up_a_child.htm

A lot of defenders do a whole "if you read the whole book you'd understand" and "news stories and blogs only quote tiny bits" as part of their defense. I have full confidence that anyone not already caught up in this insanity will hate the book as much (if not more!) after reading the whole thing.

And, when you talk about their smiling, happy appearance, it might be worth adding that, if they follow the Pearls and others who insist on this, they may actually be whipping the kids until they smile. Yep -- just stopping an unwanted behavior or not crying any more is often not enough to stop a whipping, they actually need to smile and act happy.

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I found a dead link, under:

"people defended the Duggars' right to choose"

I don't know if you want to include a link that actually leads to TTUAC's full text, but here is one:

http://www.achristianhome.org/to_train_up_a_child.htm

Michael should write for SNL:

I have had children in my house that would be enough to give an electric wheat grinder a nervous breakdown. The parents look like escapees from a Second World War, Polish boxcar. Another hour with them, and I would have been searching the yellow-pages for discount vasectomies.
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Canticle, I can't believe that the only 2 comments are yours and mine. Have you received any private comments?

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Very good, Canticle!

I found a dead link, under:

"people defended the Duggars' right to choose"

I don't know if you want to include a link that actually leads to TTUAC's full text, but here is one:

http://www.achristianhome.org/to_train_up_a_child.htm

A lot of defenders do a whole "if you read the whole book you'd understand" and "news stories and blogs only quote tiny bits" as part of their defense. I have full confidence that anyone not already caught up in this insanity will hate the book as much (if not more!) after reading the whole thing.

And, when you talk about their smiling, happy appearance, it might be worth adding that, if they follow the Pearls and others who insist on this, they may actually be whipping the kids until they smile. Yep -- just stopping an unwanted behavior or not crying any more is often not enough to stop a whipping, they actually need to smile and act happy.

Thank you so much! Will fix it now.

And NurseNell, no, I haven't gotten any private comments or emails (via my About page...) although I've had over 600 views of this. I wonder when ATI out in Oak Brook will get wind of this? I'm actually kind of wanting to get angry emails from ATI/IBLP-ers, lol.

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Just updated it with the fixed link. It was to the CatholicSistas article about "20 is not too many." Also, I elaborated on the "hit them until they smile" bit too...thanks :)

(Side note--I just now connected this with my memories. My dad would yell at us and spank/threaten to spank us if we were crying....no, he didn't follow the Pearls, but my parents were kind of fans of Dr. Dobson. Geez. I'm never going to do that to my kids.)

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Just updated it with the fixed link. It was to the CatholicSistas article about "20 is not too many." Also, I elaborated on the "hit them until they smile" bit too...thanks :)

Glad I could help.

Not sure we can pin the "spank them into smiling" crap specifically on the Pearls, though. TTUAC doesn't quite say that -- a search didn't bring up anything on NGJ yet.

But I know it's often goes along with this sort of upbringing.

ETA -- I think that Pearl skirts the issue by claiming that spanking magically create happy children, so that they just start smiling on their own, as they are whipped. Here:

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/ge ... kes-again/

and in TTUAC:

THE MAGIC WAND

Don't think of the rod as a weapon of defense or a show of force; think of the rod as a "magic wand." The first time parents see its restorative powers they are amazed. Picture a child of any age who is miserable, complaining, a bully to the other kids. When you look at him, all you can see is the inside of a bottom lip. Every device has failed to bring relief. The kid feels that he is living in foreign, occupied territory. He is obviously plotting the day of throwing off the yoke. Bribed, threatened or swatted, he only gets worse. Fail to use the rod on this child, and you are creating a '"Nazi." I still marvel at the power of the little rod. After a short explanation about bad attitudes and the need to love, patiently and calmly apply the rod to his back-side. Somehow, after eight or ten licks, the poison is transformed into gushing love and contentment. The world becomes a beautiful place. A brand new child emerges. It makes an adult stare at the rod in wonder, trying to see what magic is contained therein.

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Glad I could help.

Not sure we can pin the "spank them into smiling" crap specifically on the Pearls, though. TTUAC doesn't quite say that -- a search didn't bring up anything on NGJ yet.

But I know it's often goes along with this sort of upbringing.

It certainly does. I can see the whole thought process.

Kid is Crying or complaining (even about a legit thing) = spoiled

Kid is Spoiled = needs hitting (with a decorated plumbing line...)

Hitting = kid becomes afraid of crying or complaining

Voila! "Happy" kids!

Yeah. that fits in perfectly with the Pearls' mindset. I think I'll leave that in my blog (for now anyway).

I'm thinking I will be writing articles on child abuse on a regular basis from now on. I can't say I enjoy it, but I feel such a sense of vindication for the sake of the kids--especially in cases where the abuse may be condoned or at least swept under the rug or treated as the invisible elephant in the living room.

I forget who shared it here on FJ today, but I have had this sitting in another tab for a while:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/54672517/When ... ous-Leader

I definitely want to write another post about child abuse in the name of God. I know there's a ton of exceptions, but I've noticed that generally, people get outraged about child abuse when there's no religious element to it, or if child abuse is perpetrated by non- or pseudo-Christian cults, or if it has been done by the Catholic Church (all rightful reasons to be outraged.) But there have been cases where for example the Presbyterian version of a diocese in Chicago has had a Catholic-esque sex abuse scandal--but that seems to be forgotten quite quickly. Or in cases like fundies, people shrug their shoulders and say, "They're just conservative Christians" and let them keep abusing the kids.

If i ever feel like enough of a masochist and feel like spending more money, I'll get a second masters in something after I finish my MLIS--whatever degree will let me study religious abuse, and religious child abuse.

I'm not sure I'm making any sense right now--I need to go to bed. Just ignore my ramblings above, lol :lol:

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It certainly does. I can see the whole thought process.

Kid is Crying or complaining (even about a legit thing) = spoiled

Kid is Spoiled = needs hitting (with a decorated plumbing line...)

Hitting = kid becomes afraid of crying or complaining

Voila! "Happy" kids!

Yeah. that fits in perfectly with the Pearls' mindset. I think I'll leave that in my blog (for now anyway).

I'm thinking I will be writing articles on child abuse on a regular basis from now on. I can't say I enjoy it, but I feel such a sense of vindication for the sake of the kids--especially in cases where the abuse may be condoned or at least swept under the rug or treated as the invisible elephant in the living room.

I forget who shared it here on FJ today, but I have had this sitting in another tab for a while:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/54672517/When ... ous-Leader

I posted that. :D I'm a bit obsessed with this stuff.

I also edited a previous post in this thread, adding some quotes that make me think that Pearl never "demands" that children smile and act cheerful, because he claims it just magically happens!

Sounds like your scenario above is probably likely.

I just have such a hard time imagining becoming so aware that I was being punished for not acting happy that I could pull off a smile and act happy while being whipped.

But I guess desperate times call for desperate measures, if it's the only way to get it to stop.

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I posted that. :D I'm a bit obsessed with this stuff.

I also edited a previous post in this thread, adding some quotes that make me think that Pearl never "demands" that children smile and act cheerful, because he claims it just magically happens!

Sounds like your scenario above is probably likely.

I just have such a hard time imagining becoming so aware that I was being punished for not acting happy that I could pull off a smile and act happy while being whipped.

But I guess desperate times call for desperate measures, if it's the only way to get it to stop.

Thanks for posting it, thoughtful! I'm becoming obsessed with it too.

And the above scenario is completely true. As ridiculous as it sounds to me now, I (and my little siblings) did have that awareness, though it wasn't always easy to smile all the time. Just replace the hitting with verbal abuse and that describes my thought process for survival. Eventually it became innate, as in brainwashing.

Fear can definitely "train" people.

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