Forks over knives

[annalena]

Anyone seen this? What are your thoughts?

 

I have come to this conclusion: It's probably unnatural and therefore unhealthy to drink other animals' milk.

 

What I am wondering about - if veganism is the answer to all the unsolved medical problems, why don't we all know about it yet?!

[Guest Anonymous]

No idea what you are talking about, sorry! Do you have a link?

[annalena]

It's a movie that features veganism as basically the answer to most of today's diseases, as in obesity, diabetes, cancer.

Parts of it are on youtube, but unfortunately not the complete movie.

[CanadianHippie]

What I am wondering about - if veganism is the answer to all the unsolved medical problems, why don't we all know about it yet?!

Simple, it's not. When it comes to food, every group has a certain percentage of people who insist the diet is the answer to all the unsolved medical problems. Problem is, there are people in every group who have one or more of the unsolved medical problems.

[annalena]

Simple, it's not. When it comes to food, every group has a certain percentage of people who insist the diet is the answer to all the unsolved medical problems. Problem is, there are people in every group who have one or more of the unsolved medical problems.

True this. There are advocates for every kind of diet.

[duplessis3]

Movie is based on the China Study which has been debunked. I saw a lecture by the son of the China Study author and what a load of crap. He compared adult diets to breastmilk! (when it suited him. Don't know how we are supposed to get all that cholesterol.) Makes that tired claim that protein etc is in plants. (yes, but can humans digest it?) And said no one needs milk - girls ages 10 and below greatly benefit from milk in the diet because of the calcium (Which is conveniently predigested for us by a ruminant that can get the calcium out of plants.) I can give you links, but this veganism stuff makes me crazy, largely because I would likely have died if I was a vegan. So - it is propaganda. If you want to be a vegan, right on. But outrageous claims require outrageous proof.

Okay, I'm cutting my rant short...

[Terrie]

Anything that claims to be a "cure-all" is a crock. The causes of diseases are varied and complex.

[O Latin]

No idea what you are talking about, sorry! Do you have a link?

It's okay, I opened this thread because I wondered why on earth we needed to have a debate about whether or not forks were better than knives. :D

[keen23]

My cousin supports this movement. But then again she swears by the HGC Diet, Bee Pollen & Royal Jelly, is vegan when it suits her (except for the bee pollen), and a variety of other fringe science ideas. She's "100% Natural" except for the fact that she goes to the tanning beds every few days, and got her boobs done as a "present to herself."

[annalena]

It's okay, I opened this thread because I wondered why on earth we needed to have a debate about whether or not forks were better than knives. :D

:lol:

Fork or knife? You get to chose. Only one, though.

[CanadianHippie]

Knife, cause you can use it like a knife or a fork.

[annalena]

Really? How? I mean I can imagine, but not too much goes on there, right?

Man, I'm hungry.

[Guest Anonymous]

:lol:

Fork or knife? You get to chose. Only one, though.

If you children don't quit arguing over knives and forks, then I'm going to make you sit in a van and eat dry crackers while the rest of FJ will get to eat Taco Bell. :naughty: :lol:

[annalena]

If you children don't quit arguing over knives and forks, then I'm going to make you sit in a van and eat dry crackers while the rest of FJ will get to eat Taco Bell. :naughty: :lol:

:D

God I would love to have Taco Bell. WE DON'T HAVE IT HERE! Just like cold stone, Quizno's, and all the amazing sub places. we do have subway though, hmmm..not a fan.

[CanadianHippie]

If you children don't quit arguing over knives and forks, then I'm going to make you sit in a van and eat dry crackers while the rest of FJ will get to eat Taco Bell. :naughty: :lol:

Not much of an incentive for someone who loves dry crackers and hates taco bell.

[Terrie]

Not much of an incentive for someone who loves dry crackers and hates taco bell.

You, too? :lol:

[CanadianHippie]

You, too? :lol:

Me too. :lol:

[EmmieJ]

I know I'm replying to an older topic, but as a Kaiser patient in northern California, I have had two different doctors recommend "Forks over Knives"  It's apparently the company line.  The first time it was brought up, I did my own online research and found the very thorough debunking.  The second time it was brought up, I told that doctor about how the documentary had been debunked.  He just shook his head and we dropped the subject.  I agree that eating less animal protein would probably be good for most of us, and eating more fruits and vegetables.  But one size doesn't fit all.  My mom has a heart condition and has to take a blood thinner.  Therefore, she has to watch her intake of certain green vegetables.  I have diabetes, so I eat very little fruit, and certain vegetables are too starchy as well.

[RoseWilder]

My doctor told me that it's a huge myth that a vegetarian diet is healthier for everyone and that there are several health problems, including the one I have (my endocrine system keeps trying to shut down) where a person would feel a lot better if they ate meat. My symptoms flare up a lot whenever I try to cut out meat (tried it 3 times) and they improve drastically when I eat a diet very high in protein. 

Different people have different needs. 

[BlessedMajorNeglect]

I mean, there are fat vegans and vegetarians too! A variety of diets can be healthy because it comes down to macronutrient and micronutrient balance, as well as calories. All can be found and balanced in plant or animal based food or a mix.

Speaking as a vegan myself too, people who try to adapt to it because of health reasons I think struggle a bit because for a pretty solidly high percentage of us, we choose this as an entire lifestyle (not diet) for ethical reasons and that tends to be the cornerstone of vegan culture. I think a lot of us are pretty health conscious but tasty food still tends to be the priority, not "how do I make this as healthy as possible." I've always encouraged people to look for plant based alternatives to their favorite animal foods, but in my opinion bad science just hurts our movement and discredits us, so I cringe at a lot of nutrition documentaries. There's unfortunately a lot of woo in the vegan community.

[PartriarchydefyinValkarie]

On 6/3/2016 at 8:54 PM, BlessedMajorNeglect said:

I mean, there are fat vegans and vegetarians too! A variety of diets can be healthy because it comes down to macronutrient and micronutrient balance, as well as calories. All can be found and balanced in plant or animal based food or a mix.

Speaking as a vegan myself too, people who try to adapt to it because of health reasons I think struggle a bit because for a pretty solidly high percentage of us, we choose this as an entire lifestyle (not diet) for ethical reasons and that tends to be the cornerstone of vegan culture. I think a lot of us are pretty health conscious but tasty food still tends to be the priority, not "how do I make this as healthy as possible." I've always encouraged people to look for plant based alternatives to their favorite animal foods, but in my opinion bad science just hurts our movement and discredits us, so I cringe at a lot of nutrition documentaries. There's unfortunately a lot of woo in the vegan community.

Freelee the Banana bleh is probably the worst person to represent vegans. All the rules she has to follow like that Raw til 4 bullshit,  I think cutting back on meat ect is a good thing. Also I do think more fast food places should offer a vegan option even as an ominvore myself I think Vegans should be treated fairly.

[BlessedMajorNeglect]

1 hour ago, PartriarchydefyinValkarie said:

Freelee the Banana bleh is probably the worst person to represent vegans. All the rules she has to follow like that Raw til 4 bullshit,  I think cutting back on meat ect is a good thing. Also I do think more fast food places should offer a vegan option even as an ominvore myself I think Vegans should be treated fairly.

Freelee is a pretty toxic person in my opinion. A lot of vegan YouTubers and "social media celebrities" are guilty of bullying and basically just being oblivious privileged buttheads in general. 

And yeah the rules can get so ridiculous. Recently in one of my vegan groups someone posted this ridiculously long list of ingredients that could potentially be animal derived and said if you ever ate any of it you're not vegan. After a lot of eye rolling I was basically like "this is why people say vegans are smug and obnoxious and that it's not a sustainable option. I think I'll stick to applauding people who commit to meatless Monday instead of being the vegan police" 

[PraiseDog]

I saw the movie and thought it had quite a few good points to make, but I don't believe that if everyone became vegan it would solve all the world's health and environmental problems.

A coworker of mine is vegan, and is pretty unhealthy - not because of being vegan, but I believe his vegan diet is adding to his health problems, not solving them.  His diet is already *extremely* limited, and it seems like every other week he is ruling out yet another food because he believes it's contributing to his problems, due to some random thing he read on the internet.  I tried to politely suggest he should talk to a nutritionist who is familiar with his health issues, who could maybe put together a diet plan for him and suggest some foods that are safe to add to his diet.  Doubt he will do this though - he's not one to make an effort to improve his situation (not just about this, but about everything in general.)

I tried to go vegan many years ago, for ethical rather than health reasons, and just could not sustain it, unfortunately.  I definitely applaud those who do!  I did maintain a diet of vegetarian plus fish that I caught, organic eggs and dairy, for about 20 years. 

These days, we eat eggs from our own chickens, wild-caught fish, and 1/2 hog per year from a local farmer who raises them on pasture, feeds them on crops from their own farm, and slaughters on-site.  This works out to 1-2 meals per week with a meat entree (ham, pork chops, BBQ ribs) 2-3 meals that include a bit of meat (like lasagne or soup that has 1-2 oz of meat per serving) and the rest veggie.  So, like 3-4 oz total meat, fish, eggs per day, if you average out the year.

Even Mr. Dog (who was strictly a meat & potatoes *He-Man* before I met him) is on board! Pumpkin soup is a big hit with him, so is pesto pasta with pickled asparagus and smoked salmon.  He helps me out in our garden, mostly because he's a nice, supportive type of guy, but also because he's thrifty (ie. cheap) and I've spelled out to him that the asparagus we grow would be $2.99/lb in season, even more not in season, the basil to make pesto is more like $3.99/oz. so we need to grow these things if we want the tasty meals that he enjoys.  

The most important thing for me is that we're not supporting the BigAg factory-farm animal cruelty industry.  

The thing that really tipped the scales for Mr. Dog, was watching the movie:  Food, Inc.  He loves all animals, loves our chickens - they're like pets to him, and they love him too.  He picks blackberries and cherries for his favorite hen, and she will will sit with him, clucking cutely and being petted while she eats them.
Finally, he *got* why I refuse to support the factory-farm industry - it's not just because of my label as a "librul tree-hugger" (which I am, and he claims to be not, even though he loves animals and nature) but because a livelihood that depends on animals means they deserve to live as happy and free a life as possible as long as their lives last, and a humane and stress-free end when that time comes.

For those who have watched Forks over Knives and rolled their eyes a bit,  I would recommend the movie Food, Inc.  to anybody who thinks they need to go vegan to not support cruelty, as well as to anybody who would like to not support BigAg but still find a way to eat cruelty-free meat and BigAg-free vegetables and fruits. 
 

Anybody who's interested in this topic should definitely watch Fast Food Nation!  A fictional movie, pretty entertaining and often humorous with compelling stories and characters, but really more real than fictional.

[akinom]

On 4 juni 2016 at 4:54 AM, BlessedMajorNeglect said:

I mean, there are fat vegans and vegetarians too! A variety of diets can be healthy because it comes down to macronutrient and micronutrient balance, as well as calories. All can be found and balanced in plant or animal based food or a mix.

Speaking as a vegan myself too, people who try to adapt to it because of health reasons I think struggle a bit because for a pretty solidly high percentage of us, we choose this as an entire lifestyle (not diet) for ethical reasons and that tends to be the cornerstone of vegan culture. I think a lot of us are pretty health conscious but tasty food still tends to be the priority, not "how do I make this as healthy as possible." I've always encouraged people to look for plant based alternatives to their favorite animal foods, but in my opinion bad science just hurts our movement and discredits us, so I cringe at a lot of nutrition documentaries. There's unfortunately a lot of woo in the vegan community.

I agree with this. One of the amazing things about the human species is our ability to thrive on all sorts of different diets! I eat vegan for ethical reasons, and my experience is that you have to watch different things than you do as a meat eater. When I ate meat and dairy, I tended to get a little too much saturated fat and not enough fibre. Eating vegan, I have to supplement b12 and calcium. There is no perfect diet!

[Quivering Uterus]

I just have to mention something that will give nature credence.

Anytime you wanto to know more about animals you can study skeletal evidence. The birds with long pointy beaks are insect eaters, the more triangulate, they eat seeds - etc. Our structure of our skulls can explain an awful lot. I could go on for paragraphs about eye socket location, ear placement and more.

To get to the jist of what I'm saying is look at our teeth. We have molars for grinding grains, we have albiet smallish incisors for tearing meat. It's basic human biology. Our dentia proves what we re set up to ingest on a biological level.

Today's meat is a different creature, granted, with it's add'l chemicals etc. , but I wanted to share that.