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Joy and Austin (and Gideon) 22: When Nothing Much Happens


Jellybean

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The rupture rate is very, VERY low. Some people make it sound like she's likely to rupture or something. 

 

Not that any person rupturing is good, just that the average is incredibly low.

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13 hours ago, GutenbergGirl said:

My baby is 19 (years).... I'm still tired, and still don't have the energy for anything more elaborate than a ponytail!!

All of the VBAC talk has made me really wonder WTF my OB was thinking.  My 2nd baby was an emergency c-section.  I was breastfeeding/pumping.  I got pregnant 10 weeks after she was born.   

The whole pregnancy, I was terrified of the incision busting open, and my insides falling out.  At 37 weeks, I developed pre-eclampsia.... and was induced with pitocin.  (I'd been dilated 2 cm for a couple of weeks.)  

Yep.  Doc induced a VBAC, less than a year after my c-section.  Obviously, I survived (AFAIK, anyway), but, man!  Of course, it was back in the late 90s.)

 

I had my second c section last year and from what my OB told me, the general risk of rupture with a VBAC is about 1 in 200, and it increases to 1 in 100 if the mother's labor is induced or augmented. In my particular situation, my OB was willing to let me attempt a VBAC and was also willing to use pitocin to induce labor, as long as baby and I were being monitored. I was keen on the VBAC but not the pitocin, so gave baby until 40.5 weeks to arrive of his own volition and then had him evicted via a c section when he showed no signs of moving. 

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3 hours ago, emmeline said:

I had my second c section last year and from what my OB told me, the general risk of rupture with a VBAC is about 1 in 200, and it increases to 1 in 100 if the mother's labor is induced or augmented. In my particular situation, my OB was willing to let me attempt a VBAC and was also willing to use pitocin to induce labor, as long as baby and I were being monitored. I was keen on the VBAC but not the pitocin, so gave baby until 40.5 weeks to arrive of his own volition and then had him evicted via a c section when he showed no signs of moving. 

That is what I remember from my 2nd baby, when I asked about a VBAC they said it was fine but no Pitocin, but by the time my I was 8 1/2 months or so dr said that she was a s big already as my 1st was at birth so I would avoid labor all together.   

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Gideon looks like a baby, though I can't tell from his face being in profile, if he is a super cute, grumpy old man baby.

Joy and Austin, look tired, which is par for the course, of parents of newborns. I didn't breastfeed either of mine, but my friends that did, all said that the first few month, they walked around, in a perpetual state of exhaustion of varying degrees. Granted, most of my friends aren't the godly, patriarchal type of folks, so when they were feeling sassy, they would be obnoxiously loud, so they would wake up their SO at middle of the night feedings, so their SO could feel their pain. 

 

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I think Joy will be pregnant again in the fall. I predict an announcement in September. I think Joy might follow Michelle's pattern.

I am pretty sure that Jinger and Jill practiced some form of birth control, whether it was condoms, pulling out, or NFP. Jinger has an independent spirit and is starkly different from JB & Jchelle. Derick comes from a family of 2 and they had incentive to prevent with Jill's first emergency c section and Zika virus risks. Many of their husbands did not grow up in large families and if their headship requested birth control, they have been trained to diligently submit to their authority.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Jessa is doing something similar between pregnancies. None of these kids have followed their mother's fertility pattern of getting pregnant every 9-12 months and they're young and healthy. At least one of them would have been likely to have a similar pattern if no birth control was being practiced.

I don't think any of them wants to speak out about any changing views on birth control because they know Godbobber wouldn't be happy with them hurting the Quiverfull family brand.

Overall, I think Lauren & Kendra will be popping a baby out every year because they both come from large quiverfull families, thus they have more pressure on them to perform just like their parents and Duggar parents in-law. The Duggar girls that marry into non-quiverfull families are less likely to have this pressure.

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21 hours ago, Jenn The Heathen said:

I don’t think it’ll surpress that long, unfortunately.  Once he starts eating solids, he’ll be drinking less breast milk and she’ll start ovulating again.  My sister made this mistake and got pregnant again rather quickly.

I started solids with my son at 4 months but nursed him until 15 months. I didn’t ovulate until after he was 13 months. There is hope!

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14 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

I also wouldn't be surprised if Jessa is doing something similar between pregnancies. None of these kids have followed their mother's fertility pattern of getting pregnant every 9-12 months and they're young and healthy. At least one of them would have been likely to have a similar pattern if no birth control was being practiced.

Jessa got pregnant pretty quickly after her wedding, and then got pregnant with her second pretty quickly after having her first. She may say she's not pregnant right now, but I still think it's too early to rule her out as using some sort of birth control. They could be trying constantly, for all we know. 

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@luv2laugh may Rufus bless you for the name 'Godbobber'. :pb_lol:

I am starting to lean toward some of these couples preventing somehow. I don't think they'd use hormonal methods (even Jinger). I don't think they'd use pull-and-pray because that seems a bit too close to that scary Bible story about Onan spilling his seed. I could see them finding a way to justify condoms, though, maybe. And I could definitely see them finding a way to justify NFP. But it is too soon to tell. I'm like 95% on Jinger and Jeremy preventing, maybe 70% on Jill and Derick, and like 55% on Jessa and Ben. I don't think Anna has ever prevented. We'll see what happens with Joe and Kendra, Joy and Austin, and Josiah and Lauren. 

This is all just total speculation on my part, though. It really is too soon to tell - and even if it seems like someone is preventing, it could be random chance, secondary infertility, etc. None of them (to my knowledge) have made any statements about family planning or lack thereof recently, aside from Joy and Austin saying they wanted as many as the Lord gave before Gideon's birth, and Derick liking those tweets about two being for quitters after Sam was born. I wish they would talk about it, but I'm guessing if they are doing it, it's a source of guilt and shame for at least some of them, and they feel like they have to keep it secret. Obviously they have no obligation to share that info with anyone, but it would be very interesting to learn if/how their beliefs have changed. 

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I think if anyone has ever prevented, it'd definitely be Anna. She has babies every two years like clock work, and there are enough fundies to prove that unprotected sex doesn't work like that. Unless Josh and Anna are doing the deed just to get pregnant every two years, then there is definitely some sort of method being used. 

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Spacing could have a lot to do with libido and if this generation’s men have more respect for their wives’ needs and desires too. JB is a nasty horndog who could barely keep it in his pants on camera, so that paired with Michelle always being ‘happily available’ or whatever they called it could just mean they were always constantly ‘trying.’ 

The Duggar sons and sons-in-law could just have lower sex drives, and they might recognize and appreciate that their wives are tired with little kids and if they don’t seem to be in the mood, maybe they just don’t push it. There is a very wide range of normal! 

 

Sorry for that first part though. :brainbleach::brainbleach::brainbleach:

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16 minutes ago, viii said:

I think if anyone has ever prevented, it'd definitely be Anna. She has babies every two years like clock work, and there are enough fundies to prove that unprotected sex doesn't work like that. Unless Josh and Anna are doing the deed just to get pregnant every two years, then there is definitely some sort of method being used. 

Anything is possible. I don’t recall any of the Duggar children (nor JB and Michelle, come to think of it) speak out against NFP. But you also just never know. Our children are spaced further apart than Anna’s and we don’t use any kind of birth control. 

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1 hour ago, viii said:

I think if anyone has ever prevented, it'd definitely be Anna. She has babies every two years like clock work, and there are enough fundies to prove that unprotected sex doesn't work like that. Unless Josh and Anna are doing the deed just to get pregnant every two years, then there is definitely some sort of method being used. 

I totally (but very respectfully!) disagree. I think despite her reasonable and regular (so far) spacing between children, Anna is absolutely the least likely to have ever prevented. Having a baby every two years isn't abnormal even when you're not using birth control. We know that Anna and Josh did not have a healthy relationship during those years. Anna's sister Priscilla is on a similar timeline, and I highly doubt that Priscilla and David use any form of birth control whatsoever. Frankly I think it just comes down to not having crazy Michelle-level fertility, and not having a lot of sex.

This is why it's so hard to say whether X couple is preventing somehow or not. There are so many other possible factors. I tend to look more at what they say and their attitudes. i.e. Jinger and Jeremy never gave any indication whatsoever that they wouldn't be preventing, whereas Joy and Austin were more than happy to talk about leaving it up to God.

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10 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

There is only one time each month that a woman can conceive. Assuming each partner is relatively healthy, having regular periods, etc,  if intercourse occurs during the ovulation window, on the exact day the egg is released within 24 hours, a pregnancy will occur, "During your window of ovulation, an egg is only available to be fertilized for about 12-24 hours. But since sperm can live in the body for 3-5 days after sex, and the egg is available for one day, your most fertile time is considered to be about 5-7days."

If they are regularly having sex, they should be getting pregnant like Michelle Duggar. Michelle was very diligent about tracking her cycles and ovulation windows. 

Thus, I am pretty positive many of these couples are using NFP or condoms.

No, it isn't guaranteed.  Not at all.  Thats why doctors ask you to TRY (actively having sex at the right day) for a year before they will look at you.  Healthy couples have a 1 in 3 chance if they have unprotected sex on the right day.  Then 1 in 5 will be a chemical pregnancy.  Then you can have issues without knowing it.  Also, some bodies know they are not ready to be pregnant and will not implant.  

Its just not like this at all.  Getting pregnant takes time and can be difficult.  Even if your not infertile or unhealthy.  

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9 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

There is only one time each month that a woman can conceive. Assuming each partner is relatively healthy, having regular periods, etc,  if intercourse occurs during the ovulation window, on the exact day the egg is released within 24 hours, a pregnancy will occur, "During your window of ovulation, an egg is only available to be fertilized for about 12-24 hours. But since sperm can live in the body for 3-5 days after sex, and the egg is available for one day, your most fertile time is considered to be about 5-7days."

If they are regularly having sex, they should be getting pregnant like Michelle Duggar. Michelle was very diligent about tracking her cycles and ovulation windows. 

Thus, I am pretty positive many of these couples are using NFP or condoms.

Not really. Look at how many (otherwise healthy) people try and try for months to get pregnant and don't succeed. And also consider the fact that the majority of pregnancies end in miscarriage before the woman even realizes she's pregnant. Michelle's level of fertility is somewhat unusual, and I suspect that she was pretty much always actively trying to get pregnant. Just 'leaving it up to God' but not actively trying can easily result in far fewer than 20 babies, even assuming regular intercourse and no serious fertility problems. 

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5 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

This is why it's so hard to say whether X couple is preventing somehow or not. There are so many other possible factors. I tend to look more at what they say and their attitudes. i.e. Jinger and Jeremy never gave any indication whatsoever that they wouldn't be preventing, whereas Joy and Austin were more than happy to talk about leaving it up to God.

Very, very true!

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Gideon was huge, even if he hadn't been breech, I'm not sure Joy could have pushed him out. Gideon was a whole lot of baby. Hopefully next time they are start out at the hospital and end up with a smaller baby. 

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23 hours ago, fluffernutter said:

I was a doula for a few vbac's- all were absolutely done in the hospital, with midwives that worked in a combo ob/gyn/midwife practice, so there was always an ob back up. With one of them, i remember the ob coming in several times and checking in with the mom, so he was must've been hanging close by. They were monitored very closely. I can't imagine how anyone can feel it's safe to try at home. 

Exactly.  My first birth was with a CNM in hospital - all hell broke loose and the OB swooped in for an emergency C section.  Second birth was an attempted VBAC with CNM in hospital - same scenario (except first time was 40 hrs of labor before the emergency, second was only 4 hours).  Third and final birth the CNM did all of my care until the day of the scheduled C section.  I loved working with a CNM, but I also loved having a doc right around the corner to save the day!

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2 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Gideon was huge, even if he hadn't been breech, I'm not sure Joy could have pushed him out. Gideon was a whole lot of baby. Hopefully next time they are start out at the hospital and end up with a smaller baby. 

If he hadn't been breech I could see her still ending up at the hospital in a Jessa like situation. 

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8 hours ago, RainbowSky said:

The rupture rate is very, VERY low. Some people make it sound like she's likely to rupture or something. 

 

Not that any person rupturing is good, just that the average is incredibly low.

However, it is very hard to predict a rupture, and the implications of a rupture are very serious. That is why VBACs are handled with kid gloves, even through the odds of rupture are very low. 

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1 hour ago, justoneoftwo said:

No, it isn't guaranteed.  Not at all.  Thats why doctors ask you to TRY (actively having sex at the right day) for a year before they will look at you.  Healthy couples have a 1 in 3 chance if they have unprotected sex on the right day.  Then 1 in 5 will be a chemical pregnancy.  Then you can have issues without knowing it.  Also, some bodies know they are not ready to be pregnant and will not implant.  

Its just not like this at all.  Getting pregnant takes time and can be difficult.  Even if your not infertile or unhealthy.  

It's not something that's my opinion and I could have incorrect information. I am only going off given information:
"If your uterine endometrium is healthy, implantation will take 48 hours. During this time endometrium around the spot of attachment is thickening, blood vessels dilate. These changes indicate that your womb is ready to accept blastocyst. When it’s submerging into endometrium tissue, it gets covered with uterine cilia. Sometimes such an attachment causes insignificant bleeding that can be taken for early period. However, if it occurs, you’ll find just a few spots of blood on your underwear, no more. When a woman monitors her cycle and knows her ovulation period, she may count on pregnancy, if she doesn’t have any fertility issues and practices sex regularly, especially around implantation time. One thing you need to remember is implantation bleeding, being very scanty, almost always passes unnoticed. If you notice something like spotting 4-7 days after intercourse or a week prior to the expected period, you can count on implantation. "

http://implantationbleed.com/implantation-top-11-crucial-implantation-facts-for-any-woman-to-know/5/

This article references an interesting study posted in the Human Reproduction Journal: 
"One study, published in the journal Human Reproduction, followed women who were trying to get pregnant by having sex at the time in their monthly cycle when they were believed to be most fertile. Of the 346 women in the study, 310 conceived in the first year. The breakdown was like this:

38 percent were pregnant after 1 month.
68 percent were pregnant after 3 months.
81 percent were pregnant after 6 months.
92 percent were pregnant after 12 months.

In their conclusion, the researchers wrote, “Most couples conceive within six cycles with timed intercourse.” After a year of trying without conceiving, experts say you should see a fertility specialist."

https://www.thebump.com/a/how-long-does-it-take-to-get-pregnant

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maybe this has already been said on the last thread (I only quickly looked at these 4 pages), I had to come over when I read the headline she had an emergency C-section after 20 hours of labor.

My head is screaming "Why in the hell did the midwife NOT know the baby was breach?!?!"

My OB knew by feeling my belly that my 3rd was breach, then she did an exam and confirmed it. My baby flipped and then I still needed a freaking C-section because she was huge. Then again I went to a real doctor with real training and I would guess she has delivered over 500 babies. I assume a true midwife would be able to know that the baby is breach by feel, too.

UGH! Now I remember why I try not read the Duggars. They value the woman's life even less than some of the other fundies. :bangheaddesk: :angry-banghead:

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