Joy & Austin 21: Still Talking About Baby Gideon

[grandmadugger]

I don't even know where to start with all this bullshit.

Let's start with Jilly.  Jilly sat for a written test and passed it.  As far as we know she's never been legally able to practice in any state that has laws governing lay mid-wives.  She lost her time in Arkansas when her midwife lost her license.  She couldn't legally be any of their midwife but why should the Duggars worry about silly things like the law?  UGH!

At what point is someone in the family going to put their foot down and say "Stop doing stupid shit"  Sometimes stubborn people have to have some sense knocked into them.  I hate hospitals with a passion.  I also don't like to go to the doctor unless I have to and can be stubborn about it.  I was presenting with typical symptoms of gallbladder issues.  I knew it, my husband knew it, we are both emergency medically trained.  He finally had enough and said, "Look, you can get in the car and go to the hospital and get this taken care of or I can call 9-1-1.  If I do that I'm telling them you aren't competent to make sound decisions."  I tried to argue that I would pass the competency test and he reminded me it was him and someone else agreeing that would override me.  It meant I'd go to the hospital get taken care of and then be put on a psych hold.  It woke me up that a) I was being stupid and b he was right anyone responding to the call would agree with him because "She knows what's going on" at some point someone in the family needs to pull the "Not capable of making good decisions" card with this family.

[Chevreuil]

2 hours ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

I'm fiercely against home births, but has anyone been to a licensed birthing centre?  It would appear to be an OK compromise .  Are they able to deal with emergencies ?  Is there a Dr close by?  Just wondering.

I've given birth at a birth centre but our midwives require a university education in midwifery. I liked my experience, I would have done it again but I ended up pregnant with twins and midwives are prohibited from following high risk pregnancies here

[Mama Mia]

Hey there,, I haven’t posted ages ( so much life stufff ), but have been reading lately. My 1st birth was similar to Joy’s - large baby ( although not a giant Thank God ) 

Dr. said she was head down, she flipped during labor, which was confirmed by x-ray ( loooonnngg time ago ) . Emergency c-section.  It happens. This was all at a hospital. Some baby’s move around even late in the game. All my other kids had position type issues too. 

On the show there was another woman at the house while Joy was laboring - don’t know if you’ve discussed it - but maybe that was the midwife? 

 

[Toothfairy]

I wonder how bad does it have to be for these girls to stop doing dumb shit

[Chewing Gum]

2 hours ago, Toothfairy said:

I wonder how bad does it have to be for these girls to stop doing dumb shit

Someone has to die. 

[feministxtian]

2 hours ago, Toothfairy said:

I wonder how bad does it have to be for these girls to stop doing dumb shit

Someone has to die or lose their fertility. 

[imokit]

To be fair I've attended quite a few emergency C sections of women who've had normal antenatal care and are on labour ward, in labour when someone realises that the baby is breech.  At the relatively small hospital I work it, it probably happens monthly.  That's not counting the ones who are found late but pre labour and have planned C sections at short notice.

[Jellybean]

In the UK, midwives are all university trained and state registered.

They can assist at home births (my mother had four successful home births with a midwife), but only take on people with low risk pregnancies. They follow/arrange prenatal care, including ultrasounds, prenatal testing, screening for problems with the mother (e.g. gestational diabetes, rhesus negative blood type, infections), in coordination with the mother’s family doctor. 

Midwives can work in birth centres, which are often attached to hospitals, or even part of the labour/delivery unit, just with a different set-up and no doctors actually in the room unless there’s a problem. Again, access to this is usually restricted to people with low-risk pregnancies.

Obviously, midwives are also an essential part of the hospital labour and delivery unit, along with doctors and nurses. 

If a c-section is needed here, it’s usually described as either:

- Planned: generally between 36 and 39 weeks. High risk pregnancies or those with complications, such as mothers with gestational diabetes, who tend to have very large babies, or those petite mothers who have ‘cephalopelvic disproportion’ (baby’s head bigger than mother’s pelvis)

- Emergency: not planned. May be because labour doesn’t progress, baby shows early signs of distress, or lots of other reasons. Usually happens quickly, but could be up to a couple of hours, depending on how urgent the problem is

- Crash: get to the operating theatre immediately. Do not pass go. Do not collect £200. This is an ‘everybody run to theatre, pushing the bed, while bleeping the crash team’ occasion

[kachuu]

15 hours ago, Nargus said:

I love the 'Hidden Killers in the Home' docuseries with Dr Suzannah Lipscomb.  I found them all on Youtube, it's super interesting.

I have to watch my murder documentaries lately. I've started to have really vivid dreams. Thanks pregnancy 

But they sound good!

[Jellybean]

12 hours ago, Mlissmartin said:

Ok it's been bugging me, why is this thread called baby Gideon is "still" here...why wouldn't he be, it pinches a nerve with me

I’m really sorry that so many of you seem to be upset by the title of this thread. It was intended to be funny, but obviously that fell a bit flat.

Please don’t sit on it until page 18 if you’re upset or offended or bothered by anything. Send a message to the helpmeet that started the thread (or a different helpmeet if you’d feel more comfortable with them) and explain what’s bothering you and why. 

I think it’s reasonable for people to be unhappy about it (and there were at least 6 others who seemed to feel the same way as @Mlissmartin, according to the upvotes and agrees on her post) so I’ve changed the name of the thread. I hope this one is ok with everyone. 

Apologies again.

[HarleyQuinn]

I think we all know it's possible for babies to flip in active labor, but this is the Duggars we're talking about. I think it's safer to assume her midwife (Jill or whomever else was there) just didn't know what they were doing.

[Chewing Gum]

@Jellybean I’m so glad you changed it. I should’ve spoken up too because it did upset me too. 

And about flipping breech: most baby’s that do so are in multipara woman (=given birth more than once) and they’re usually not 10 pounds. 

[HarleyQuinn]

Could Jill face legal trouble now if she was Joy's only midwife? I assume the birth clip was cell phone footage again and not TLC footage? Wouldn't they be liable too if they let a non certified person play midwife on their show?

[Snarkasarus Rex]

14 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Could Jill face legal trouble now if she was Joy's only midwife? I assume the birth clip was cell phone footage again and not TLC footage? Wouldn't they be liable too if they let a non certified person play midwife on their show?

Jilly Muff isn't doing business as a midwife, and the family knows her qualifications (or lack thereof), so legally she's not liable for anything,  Unattended homebirth isn't illegal.  I'm sure TLC has also covered it's legal ass with respect to the other suspected midwife, since it's the family's choice to go this route...it's the family's responsibility to accept the risk.  While I don't think TLC could be held responsible for anything going wrong, IMO it's morally and ethically reprehensible for them to film these births knowing these girls do not have competent midwives.

[Meggo]

11 hours ago, marmalade said:

AR requires lay midwives to take a state test on top of the CPM one. Jill has never taken this test and is NOT licensed to practice in AR. 

Do we know WHY she hasn't taken it? It seems like it would be a fairly simple thing to do, now that you've done the school or apprentice stuff and then taken the CPM test. Like - tie a bow on that already. Even if she plans to charge nothing for her services so she isn't "working" - in that family - she'll be BOUND to catch some babies simply by walking by. 

And really - are they are all going to gather at the house EVERY time someone has a baby? That's a lot of sitting around in this family...

[SapphireSlytherin]

For all we know, she has taken the test but just not passed it. Unless there are records of those who’ve sat the test?

[HarleyQuinn]

22 minutes ago, Meggo said:

Do we know WHY she hasn't taken it? It seems like it would be a fairly simple thing to do, now that you've done the school or apprentice stuff and then taken the CPM test. Like - tie a bow on that already. Even if she plans to charge nothing for her services so she isn't "working" - in that family - she'll be BOUND to catch some babies simply by walking by. 

And really - are they are all going to gather at the house EVERY time someone has a baby? That's a lot of sitting around in this family...

She probably took it and didn't pass. 

[HurricaneBells]

Screw having that many people around you while in labour! Technically I did too but they were medical staff saving my kids life. It went from you're 1 cm dilated but no progression maybe a csection if no improvement in a few hours to running me down the hall in 14 mins, out cold in 17. He would have died if i had been giving birth at home. If i had even stayed home another hour. Way too scary for this mama to ever consider!

[Bethella]

2 hours ago, Meggo said:

Do we know WHY she hasn't taken it? It seems like it would be a fairly simple thing to do, now that you've done the school or apprentice stuff and then taken the CPM test. Like - tie a bow on that already. Even if she plans to charge nothing for her services so she isn't "working" - in that family - she'll be BOUND to catch some babies simply by walking by. 

Jill disappeared from the Arkansas Midwife Apprentice list at the same time her mentor Venessa lost her license due to a bad delivery (the baby almost died due to negligence). It was assumed that the births done under Venessa's supervision no longer qualified towards licensure and that she would need to repeat the apprenticeship under a new mentor.

[libgirl2]

5 hours ago, Chewing Gum said:

Someone has to die. 

I bet they would consider that noble and a justified death. 

[Rachel333]

4 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I bet they would consider that noble and a justified death. 

Indeed. I remember once discussing abortion in my high school Bible study group. A bunch of the girls said they would be proud to die rather than have an abortion.

[Million Children For Jesus]

From what I’m gleaning from FJ, Jill took her CPM program exam and became certified. One must have certification from a CPM program to apply for the state license exam. (A quick search shows these programs take 1-3 years depending on where you go.) Testing is a two-step process, certification exam from the CPM program, and licensing exam from the state. I believe she took the certification exam that Derick drove her to, and that she passed, as Derick stated. She isn’t listed as licensed, so therefore she either never took the licensing exam, or she took it, but didn’t pass.  

I tend to lean toward never took it. First reason being, several posters mentioned that Jill was happy assisting, and did not have the ambition to become a CPM, but got pushed into it. By the time she took the exam for certification, she was married and expecting a child. I don’t think she was motivated to get licensed. It wasn’t what she wanted, and she had moved on to other things in her life, being a wife and mother.

Second reason being, if she lost her certification and all of her apprenticeship hours when Venessa Giron lost her license, (because the apprenticeship hours done under Venessa no longer counted), than she would have had to start all over as an apprentice under a different midwife. We have not heard about anything remotely close to Jill studying under a new CPM. I don’t think they could/would hide Jill studying under a new CPM.

Venessa’s errors are firmly Venessa’s fault, not Jill’s, so there’s nothing to hide, plus that info is already out. It was unfortunate that Jill chose to study under Venessa. It would have been prudent for Jill to have been matter of fact about the situation, “My hours don’t count, I would have to start over, but I’m undecided at this time if I want to undertake such a big commitment because I’m satisfied with my current level of family responsibility.”  It doesn’t have to be the big whisper mill they’ve turned it into.

ETA: ...and herein lies the confusion, CPM stands for Certified Professional Midwife, so she was a “certified Certified Professional Midwife,” but not a “licensed Certified Professional Midwife.” Now she is neither certified, nor licensed. 

[metheglyn]

7 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

On the show there was another woman at the house while Joy was laboring - don’t know if you’ve discussed it - but maybe that was the midwife? 

 

Did you see anyone other than Duggar women, Austin's mom, or Austin's sister? If so, I missed her when I re-watched it, which is possible.

[luv2laugh]

Jill doing this after her own emergency C sections is stupid. Joy now is like sister Jill with an emergency C section!

The other woman was Austin’s sister.

[Chewing Gum]

8 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I bet they would consider that noble and a justified death. 

Yeah probably God’s will and all. The Stupid is strong with these folks.