Joy & Austin 20: Baby Gideon is Here

[new espadrille]

Here are the difference between the grandkids' ages.

Turd & Anna
Mackynzie - Michael: 1 yr, 8 mos, 7 days
Michael - Marcus: 1 yr, 11 mos, 18 days
Marcus - Meredith: 2 yrs, 14 days
Meredith - Mason: 2 yrs, 2 mos, 17 days

Jill & Derick
Israel - Samuel : 2 yrs, 3 mos, 2 days

Jessa & Ben:
Spurgeon - Henry: 1 yr, 3 mos, 1 day

[Elvis Presby]

My youngest was born via c-section on a Wednesday morning.  I could have been discharged as early as Friday morning if I had wanted, but a Saturday morning discharge (3 days) would have been standard.  I wasn't discharged until Sunday.  We were told that 4 days was the maximum stay after a c-section.   He was a late term preemie and I chose to stay the full 4 days in hopes that he would improve and be discharged from the NICU by then.  

edited for grammar.

[Nargus]

My best friend had an unplanned C Section on a Friday night, and I visited her at home on Sunday afternoon.

[Jana814]

I like the name they picked for their son. I know of a kid with they name and I have not heard it again till now. 

[Million Children For Jesus]

51 minutes ago, gameofunbeknowns said:

I apologize in advance if I’ve missed it but someone asked in the last thread and I  didn’t see it answered. Does anyone know the religious reasons (if they are indeed religious) that fundies usually advocate home birth?

 

I don’t think there are any religious reasons. My friends who advocate home births are motivated by lower c-section rates, more control over their environment, comfort, and to a lesser extent, distrust of doctors. I don’t think finances were a factor to anyone I know IRL, but to single-income fundie families with limited or no health care, and/or limited or no disposable income, I wouldn’t rule out a financial consideration. 

[Rachel333]

I think it's mostly just kind of trendy in their set to have a home birth, not for any particular religious reasons.

I find it amusing when the fundies and the crunchy liberals meet up on these issues.

[gameofunbeknowns]

1 hour ago, justoneoftwo said:

I imagine it is in part because having home births supports their theory that this is how it is supposed to be.  If child birth is something women are just able to do, no problem, then it make sense that G-d would give you a tun of kids.  Its what women were made for after all.  If it is a medical problem then there is an argument that its not the purpose of women, or that G-d doesn't want it to be all they do.  I think by having home births they are showing the world that they are right and that women should have a tun of kids, its not a disability, its not a medical problem, its not a big deal, its what is supposed to happen.  

Similarly, if pregnancy and birth are natural and what should happen abortion is worse.  You killed someone to avoid something that you don't even need a doctor for.  Its so selfish because giving birth isn't a big deal.  And so on.

I bet there is a lot of truth to this. One of the things that infuriates me about this line of thinking with fundies is that it encourages, and in many cases promotes willful and prideful ignorance.

The way the Bates (the tapas incident being a recent example) and Duggars giggle, deem something interesting (we all know what that’s code for), and frown at anything outside their norm is disturbing.

The “I’m a plain girl” “I just like ketchup on my burger” “Screw fancy shoes..I’m going barefoot”....in the snow...in December...down the aisle to the tune of vacectomy reversal. It seems to me that the not so thinly veiled idea is “you all make idols out of fancy water, organic diets, shoes, and anything that is outside my scope of understanding. If you were real Christians you’d have it just the way the lord made it!”

As if the Lord spent his weekends preserving tuna to put in a can and chopping ingredients for Rotel.

[Million Children For Jesus]

As far as c-sections go, I went home after two days, except once when I stopped at the beach before going home. By the third day, I was grocery shopping and driving. I could definitely sit with my legs crossed at any point in time, once the epidural wore off and I could feel my legs again, which was within a few hours. I really never had any down time. I had wretched pregnancies and deliveries, but remarkable c-section recoveries. I know this isn’t standard, but not every person who has a c-section has a difficult or lengthy recovery. It’s entirely possible that Joy, being fit, young, and healthy, could comfortably sit cross-legged post c-section.

ETA: I could hold babies any which way, not any different than I can right now, but lifting them hurt, so I preferred someone to hand me the baby the first few days, but that didn’t happen too often. I didn’t have that kind of help. I had the “help” that sat on the couch while I served them coffee.

[SassyPants]

11 minutes ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

As far as c-sections go, I went home after two days, except once when I stopped at the beach before going home. By the third day, I was grocery shopping and driving. I could definitely sit with my legs crossed at any point in time, once the epidural wore off and I could feel my legs again, which was within a few hours. I really never had any down time. I had wretched pregnancies and deliveries, but remarkable c-section recoveries. I know this isn’t standard, but not every person who has a c-section has a difficult or lengthy recovery. It’s entirely possible that Joy, being fit, young, and healthy, could comfortably sit cross-legged post c-section.

ETA: I could hold babies any which way, not any different than I can right now, but lifting them hurt, so I preferred someone to hand me the baby the first few days, but that didn’t happen too often. I didn’t have that kind of help. I had the “help” that sat on the couch while I served them coffee.

Agreed about the ease of C-section recovery, and mine were in 1987 and 1990- I came home both days on a Saturday and on Monday my hubs was back at his job. The stories my friends and co-workers told of vaginal delivery recoveries sounded worse. 

I truly think that the Duggar ladies love of home birth is driven by 2 things: 1) Their perceived thought that birthing in massive numbers is their soul mission and goal in life, and they don't need any help to do what God put THEM on this Earth to do, and 2) lack of medical insurance and therefore the $$$$$$ for hospital births. I am sure Michelle's 2 HBs were during a period of medical insurance lapse (back-to-back births).

[QuiverFullofBooks]

1 hour ago, new espadrille said:

Here are the difference between the grandkids' ages.

Turd & Anna
Mackynzie - Michael: 1 yr, 8 mos, 7 days
Michael - Marcus: 1 yr, 11 mos, 18 days
Marcus - Meredith: 2 yrs, 14 days
Meredith - Mason: 2 yrs, 2 mos, 17 days

Jill & Derick
Israel - Samuel : 2 yrs, 3 mos, 2 days

Jessa & Ben:
Spurgeon - Henry: 1 yr, 3 mos, 1 day

Wow, Anna is REALLY consistent in her spacing. She’s adding three months to the gap with each pregnancy (though just a month with Marcus/Meredith). So the gap between Mason and #6 will be 2 years and about 5 and a half months. That means we can expect #6 around March 2020. She will be 30 in June, so I doubt that they will have more than 10 children, maybe not even that if her fertility declines after 35.

I checked Wikipedia for Mason’s DOB and someone (probably the person who added Gideon) has the ages of the kids under a year to the day. I guess that person has nothing better to do than update it every day?

[SapphireSlytherin]

5 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I checked Wikipedia for Mason’s DOB and someone (probably the person who added Gideon) has the ages of the kids under a year to the day. I guess that person has nothing better to do than update it every day?

@new espadrille - is that YOU?  lol   

[Million Children For Jesus]

13 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I guess that person has nothing better to do than update it every day?

I have no idea how one updates Wikipedia, but my guess is that there is a way to plug in a formula and it automatically updates, kindof like an Excel spreadsheet. 

[Rachel333]

15 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I checked Wikipedia for Mason’s DOB and someone (probably the person who added Gideon) has the ages of the kids under a year to the day. I guess that person has nothing better to do than update it every day?

I would imagine that you can set it to update the ages like that automatically.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

3 minutes ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

I have no idea how one updates Wikipedia, but my guess is that there is a way to plug in a formula and it automatically updates, kindof like an Excel spreadsheet. 

It was in a grid, but not formatted the way that I would expect if it was automatic. I’m not an Excel person though; maybe it can be done.

[RubyRei]

In regards to the congratulations video Jim Bob and Michelle put out in which Michelle says that such a big baby is a “good start,” Pickles added “Stretch that kitty to the max for the next couple of dozen.”

What in the world?!

 

[AtlanticTug]

3 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Good point- probably not.

My daughter is a month old. I have tons of photos of me sitting cross-legged in the hospital after the c-section, once the spinal wore off so maybe 8 hours after or so? My 2-year old is there and it was comfortable but I've always found this surgery to be no big deal and I was running a 5K once 4 weeks later so it may not be typical.

[Fascinated]

In my experience, the most difficult aspect of having a c-section is that you can’t lift anything heavy for six weeks or so.  So, if you have young children to look after it can be a bit of a trial. I had a ten month old when I had my first c-section.  He weighed 26 pounds.  I was grateful to have a baby to go home to, as I did lose my second child but, as I was not allowed to pick him up, he started seeking out my husband and my mum for comfort. It was excruciating and I felt for a while like I’d lost two babies.  

It is amazing what we go through. Reading everyone’s experiences demonstrates how incredibly strong we are. We have no choice, really, but, man, we rock. 

I don’t know a single person who has had a home birth. I don’t know if that is due to lack of religion or the region in which we live, or just that we Canadians don’t have to worry about massive bills that we will incur with a hospital birth. Maybe it’s a combination of those things. 

[freethemall]

3 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

WHAT! THE! ACTUAL! FUCK! They let you push for 8 HOURS? I will never EVER again complain about my 4 hours of pushing, I thought it was beyond asinine for them to let me go that long. I looked and felt like I'd been hit by a mack truck. My I broke blood vessels in my eyes and my cheeks, my face was swollen and puffy, my hands were numb (I couldn't even feed myself for 2 days they were so weak from squeezing hands and bed rails for so long).  I pushed for 4 hours with everything I had and he never engaged in my pelvis, he was sunny side up and had a 15 inch head, That was NOT coming out, #2's head was bigger by 1/4 of an inch. People ask why I had c/sections. I just look at their heads, UMMM MMMM, not out of my vag!

Hah yes, I was lucky to have a doctor who let me keep trying. I was exhausted after the first 4-5 hrs and that epidural nap really helped me to finish with the last 2-3 hrs (it may have been closer to 6.5-7 hrs pushing, all I know is I started pushing at 2pm and that baby came at 11:49pm). We were about 30 minutes away from a vacuum and then a C-section and when I heard all that I was like "fuck no I haven't pushed this long to be cut open". Turns out the baby's head had gotten stuck in the canal and scratched bone on the way out so was swollen, hence why it took so long.

[SassyPants]

24 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

My daughter is a month old. I have tons of photos of me sitting cross-legged in the hospital after the c-section, once the spinal wore off so maybe 8 hours after or so? My 2-year old is there and it was comfortable but I've always found this surgery to be no big deal and I was running a 5K once 4 weeks later so it may not be typical.

I can't imagine a fresh post op mother would be encouraged to sit like that- and as a nurse, had I witnessed a post op woman sitting like that in her hospital bed, I would have discouraged it. 

3 minutes ago, freethemall said:

Hah yes, I was lucky to have a doctor who let me keep trying. I was exhausted after the first 4-5 hrs and that epidural nap really helped me to finish with the last 2-3 hrs (it may have been closer to 6.5-7 hrs pushing, all I know is I started pushing at 2pm and that baby came at 11:49pm). We were about 30 minutes away from a vacuum and then a C-section and when I heard all that I was like "fuck no I haven't pushed this long to be cut open". Turns out the baby's head had gotten stuck in the canal and scratched bone on the way out so was swollen, hence why it took so long.

Those sunny side up positioned babies produce, no joke, painful, protracted labors.

[CaricatureQualities]

57 minutes ago, RubyRei said:

In regards to the congratulations video Jim Bob and Michelle put out in which Michelle says that such a big baby is a “good start,” Pickles added “Stretch that kitty to the max for the next couple of dozen.”

What in the world?!

 

Yeah, see that is the thing...full on "snark" and assholery with no compassion can just come across as ignorant and mean. Michelle likely meant that having an infant that starts off as a good 10lb chunk is a good start to his life because, you know, it is. You generally want babies to eat and gain weight and grow. Implying that her main concern is having her daughters pussy stretched to make way for more is sort of lewd and it depicts Michelle as more of a monster than she is.  Personally I am not offended by the comment and I personally find it sort of funny (I can handle lewd and have sort of a sick sense of humour sometimes) and I also know that the Duggars are a part of a culture that does see women as baby making machines and not much else... but I don't really think it's an honest comment and it's not one I would make here* and certainly not on facebook if my goal was to get information out and start constructive dialogue. 

*Or anywhere outside my own head....I know the audience there 

[Satan'sFortress]

5 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I got released on the third day my son was born via c-section and that was 24 years ago. I honestly preferred to be at home to recover. My mom came over to help out. All was well until my ex-MIL came to stay the weekend and "help out". I almost had a nervous breakdown! Ugh! Here I was trying to get used to having an infant, not sleeping much, in pain and "she" came over. I remember crying to my mom and her telling me "as much as you don't like her, she is his grandmother too." They couldn't stand each other as well. Now they are both in the same secured dementia unit at a nursing home. 

 

This just breaks my heart.  I had a similar experience. 

I've heard stories that some women actually like their MIL, but it seems to be a rare thing. There is just something about that relationship that is set up for conflict, IMO. 

When I was headed off to the birth center to have baby #2, we called my MIL to come over and stay with child #1.  My parents are out of state, and MIL is local.  We were grateful to have her for that, I'll admit.  I had a very quick moving, intense labor.  When MIL arrived, I came downstairs to get ready to get in the car.  I was full on doing my loud mama bear labor moans and at one point in the middle of a contraction said right to her face "I want my mother!"  I actually still feel kind of guilty about that.

But as grateful as I was that she came to babysit, I was pissed that she wouldn't leave.  My parents came to stay with us the next day and SHE wouldn't go.  They could only be here a short time, whereas SHE was local and could see him any time.  grrr.

16 years ago and I am still mad. I wish Mr. Fortress would have told her to go.

[HurricaneBells]

9 minutes ago, CaricatureQualities said:

 Implying that her main concern is having her daughters pussy stretched to make way for more is sort of lewd and it depicts Michelle as more of a monster than she is. 

Read the post again or watch the video. Michelle DID NOT say this, Pickles did. Even more disturbing in my opinion. She has no class that woman

[new espadrille]

58 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

@new espadrille - is that YOU?  lol   

Haha! That's a little much, even for me!

[AtlanticTug]

30 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I can't imagine a fresh post op mother would be encouraged to sit like that- and as a nurse, had I witnessed a post op woman sitting like that in her hospital bed, I would have discouraged it. 

Why? It was comfortable that way, and I had the catheter still in and didn't bother me. I was walking to the NICU 10 hrs after my c-section and no nurse discouraged it. In fact my obstetrician saw me and had a chat with me in the hall and said it was great how I was up and around and how it was the reason I healed so quickly each time.

[Georgiana]

Regarding homebirth: I think the COST aspect of homebirth was a dependency of pushing the QF movement.

If you tell someone to have unlimited kids, their first question is going to be “How will I afford it?”. QF had to answer that to get people on board: buy used, save the difference; homeschool; coupon and buy in bulk!

But any way you slice it, hospital births are expensive. Exponentially so if you’re a patriarch who is properly self-employed or working for a small Christian business without insurance. And you can’t tell people to plan to have eleventy kids on government aid. So how do you get around that cost? Homebirth!

Its more Godly! More natural! And guess what? It SEEMS so much cheaper! No big hospital bill to worry about unless you don’t trust God and have to transfer...but that won’t happen to YOU! You’re a GOOD Christian, right? God will protect you!

I think we’ll see more hospital and birthing center births from those families who have the money. With QF becoming less trendy to push (so many of the ardent male pushers of the movement having since been disgraced), I think hospital births will become the preferred method for those Christian women whose “proper Christian testimony” is already beyond reproach (grand multiparas with prior homebirths, fundie royal second gens, wives of fundie royal second gens).