Lori Alexander 39: Civilization breaks down because...women

[AuntKrazy]

@Fascinated

I have studied the Bible rather thoroughly - I worked hard to earn a Master's in Theology, and learned both Biblical Greek and Hebrew while doing so.  The curriculum went through every book of the Bible in a master's degree setting, many of them in the original languages.  So I have to begin with this:  I really do not know how to separate it from my thought process because that experience was so immersive, it impacts everything about who I am.

But, I read passages now somewhat haphazardly.  Sometimes it will be meditative, sometimes it is more casual, and purely for pleasure (I enjoy reading the stories still).  There is hardly a day that goes by where I don't read the Bible at least quoted by someone.

I spend more time in prayer now than anything else.  I like to use the Bible as a stepping stone to pray for those in my life, my world.  It inspires me to strive to be kinder, compassionate.  It reminds me to have some integrity.  I pray a lot when I drive, especially for forgiveness because I swear and flip off people in traffic a lot.

With regard to proselytizing:  I try to abide by the golden rule (and fail a lot), and pick myself up and try to do better each day.  I don't think I would care about anybody else if I did not have faith.  I think people can be good people and claims of faith rarely have anything to do with it.  I question more why someone who does not have faith would want to go to heaven (which I think of as a place of unending worship of Jesus) if they did not choose to worship him on earth than anything else.  I ascribe to Francis of Assisi's philosophy of trying to preach the gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words.  - that is - I want to be a source of life and light to others; but I think that often such comfort begins with keeping my mouth shut and learning how to try to love others on their terms, as to me, that is the kind of love Jesus showed.  I believe in a God that sees all, and loves anyway - and this is the biggest influence on me ever, as it is what I view as what my life is supposed to be all about: Seeing others and loving them anyway.  I believe that this is worship.  I talk about Jesus in this, but I hope it is as an invitation into who I am than anything else.

 

 

[delphinium65]

5 hours ago, EowynW said:

"I know women aren't emotionally intelligent" LMAO speak for yourself, bitch. 

 

Absolutely right! 

The whole 'women emotional/men unemotional' thing is not just bad for women, but for men too.  My ex was far more emotional than these 'alpha males only' fundies consider acceptable, and that was not a bad thing-he had serious flaws, but that wasn't one of them!   Seems to me that there's a lot more overlap in levels of emotion among men and women than I was led to believe, and there's nothing wrong with that in either sex.  You're a less emotional, more logical woman? Fine.  A more emotional man? No problem!  Lori and her acolytes would have a fit if they met my husband....he absolutely would not fit their mold, and I wouldn't want him to!  

[usmcmom]

14 hours ago, Lgirlrocks said:

If you click on the link in her blog post, about Valentine’s Day causing divorce, with divorced statistics it says the page cannot be found. 

Weird. It is still working for me. Never fear!  Here's the screen shot. 

[Florita]

Reply to her Instagram "Men Invented Everything" doodle:

Bound for deletion, I expect. 

[Free Jana Duggar]

15 hours ago, Fascinated said:

There are a lot of Christians reading and commenting on this thread. And I have some honest questions for you. How often do you think about, or read, the Bible?  How much does any such reading influence you on a day-to-day basis?  It seems like so many people we follow do nothing that isn’t related to their religious beliefs. I‘m not sure if that is actually the case, or if that it is just what they choose to put online, possibly in order to proselytize to the masses.  I’m genuinely curious about this.

 

I read my Bible and pray everyday. I may get in trouble for saying this on here, but I do agree with some of the principles Lori teaches. i tend to lean to the conservative right on the controversial issues.  My problem with Lori is her extremism and her hateful attitude.  I can't stand her praise for the Pearls. Hitting infants and flicking the cheeks of nursing babies is awful, but yea I did swat my kids on the behind when they were old enough to know better. 

I get that there are verses in the Bible that indicate women should not be in leadership over a man in church. My husband is an SBC pastor, and does not ordain women, but he is fine with women speaking. I've even given the sermon once in his absence and another for Mother's Day.  He takes those passages not as an insult to women, but instructing the men to do their job. Meaning if the women step up and lead, the men will sit back and do nothing, so really it's an admonition to the men to have to be told to do their job.  That's just one interpretation I've heard.  

I do consider him the head of our home, but he does not feel the need to control my every move or put his two cents into everything.  Me submitting doesn't come up much at all.  The last thing I remember "submitting" on was he felt I needed to wait to get my car painted until we had some more savings. Not a problem, I waited. Our agreement is if we are spending more that $100, we need to check with each other. 

I'm OK with women being considered the help mate (I refuse to say helpmeet because that's stupid).  I'm all for women being able to get an education and work because I live in reality and know that sometimes life sucks and a woman has to to what she has to do. Plus I feel for men having to work 2-3 jobs just to pay for necessities when an able-bodied wife could help.  If a woman is the help mate, then doesn't the man get to decide how he needs her to help?

OK, sorry for the ramble (back on topic now). I do read my Bible and pray daily and just try to remember "What Would Jesus Do?" and live accordingly. 

[molecule]

15 hours ago, Fascinated said:

There are a lot of Christians reading and commenting on this thread. And I have some honest questions for you. How often do you think about, or read, the Bible?  How much does any such reading influence you on a day-to-day basis?  It seems like so many people we follow do nothing that isn’t related to their religious beliefs. I‘m not sure if that is actually the case, or if that it is just what they choose to put online, possibly in order to proselytize to the masses.  I’m genuinely curious about this.

 

I am a Christian. I spend more time in prayer than with the bible, although I do read some scripture most days. It varies between following a reading plan, using a topical study to look at verses, and just ask God to point me to what I should be reading (in other words, I close my eyes and open my bible and read what's in front of me).

I work in online marriage ministry from home, so I probably think about the bible more than many other Christians--although I'm not one who can pull a bible verse out of a hat for any occasion.

Both my prayer life and my bible reading are about helping myself grow. When I see something as sinful or read about what to do in various situations, I look at it in terms of what I am supposed to do. I don't use that to tell others what they should do. Even in my ministry work, if I point out a relevant bible passage, I will encourage someone to study and pray about it for themselves. Sometimes I'll share my understanding of it and how I applied that to my own life, but I don't use that understanding to judge others. 

I believe that bible reading in conjunction with prayer may lead two Christians to very different understandings of what something means--both valid, and both from God. I believe that God's word is big enough to contain what may appear to be contradictions.

I don't try to convince others to come to Jesus. I try to live in a way that preaches God's love and grace more than my words could ever do. 

I do many things that have nothing to do with my faith. Even in those things, though, I try not to be inconsistent with my beliefs. I am always aware of my faith, although it is often more on the backburner than front and center in my life. 

One area where I fail spectacularly is profanity. I am generally careful with my public words (even here where I'm anonymous). In private, though, the f-word rolls off my tongue with barely a thought. (In fact, my usual daily response to Lori's posts is WTF, out loud.)

5 minutes ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

I do agree with some of the principles Lori teaches

I do as well in a few areas, although I generally lean left rather than right.

Lori's bitterness, hypocrisy, and lack of compassion are what bug me the most about her. On those occasions when I agree with an overall point she is making, I am horrified by her approach. The only thing she has transformed is God's word into venom.

[samurai_sarah]

6 minutes ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

I read my Bible and pray everyday. I may get in trouble for saying this on here, but I do agree with some of the principles Lori teaches. i tend to lean to the conservative right on the controversial issues.  My problem with Lori is her extremism and her hateful attitude.

(snip)

Why would you get in trouble? I'm an atheist and open about it, and I have no issue with your beliefs. As long as we don't try to force one another to believe in this or that, there is no issue. On the contrary, we all get to learn, and that's a great thing!

[BlackSheep]

15 hours ago, Fascinated said:

There are a lot of Christians reading and commenting on this thread. And I have some honest questions for you. How often do you think about, or read, the Bible?  How much does any such reading influence you on a day-to-day basis?  It seems like so many people we follow do nothing that isn’t related to their religious beliefs. I‘m not sure if that is actually the case, or if that it is just what they choose to put online, possibly in order to proselytize to the masses.  I’m genuinely curious about this.

 

It was only within the past year that I actually said on FJ that I'm a Christian. I wasn't sure if there would be backlash - I'm so glad that there wasn't, because I like it here. There are many different viewpoints and beliefs, and reading those has helped me to be a better critical thinker.

My ideal is to read the Bible daily but honestly, I often don't. I'm slowly working my way through it for a second time (NIV). First time was probably 20 years ago (KJV). I have favorite parts that I like to re-read. Some of it, also honestly again, is a bit of a slog. Yep, I said it. I like some parts better than others. Those parts, like Romans and James, I find to be comforting and strengthening as I make my way through life. BUT - I don't use my favorite parts to build an agenda to put other people down.

One of my favorite verses is Isaiah 41:10:

Quote

So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

And Matthew 11:28-30:

Quote

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

I can't quote these verses on demand word for word, but when it's a bad day at work or life is really giving me lemons, the concepts of the verses are probably a part of how I end up coping. A parallel example is that I'm a big fan of Stephen King. Some of his books I've read multiple times and I can discuss many of his works, but I can't quote a ton of lines from them.

I also don't proselytize. Friends and coworkers know that I go to church. If someone is interested in my faith or in finding a church, perhaps they'll ask me. No one ever has. Hopefully by seeing me - imperfect me - it will show people that you don't have to be perfect to follow Christ (although I'm not trying to send that particular message per se). In fact, trying to be perfect will only impede your walk with Him. Accept your faults and shortcomings, and take steps to improve where you feel that you need to. You'll screw up, it's okay, just keep on going.

I was raised in a home where we went to church weekly, and I still do. I was also raised to believe that good people are everywhere - from all faiths and nations - and that they don't necessarily believe exactly as we do.

I'll close with one my favorite sayings, and it's not from the Bible:

"Trust in God. He's the only one who can do anything about tomorrow."

[usmcmom]

*raising hand now*

Me! Me! I'm a Bible reading Christian. 

I generally read for comfort and for deciding how I should live MY life. I have no time to tell others how to live theirs because I have waaaaayyyy too many issues/sins of my own to work on. The only time I use the Bible to try to prove a point is when I feel others are continually misusing it and tainting Christianity. That, in fact, is what got me to start posting on here - Ken and Lori's gross misinterpretation of scripture that allowed them to use it as a weapon. They like to use the Bible to victimize women. 

I don't know how to say this without humble bragging but here goes. My daughter recently spent a week with one of my dearest friends, who happens to not be a Christian. My friend told my daughter "I know your parents are Christians but they are so accepting and non-judgmental of anything that is different than their beleifs." Someone recently wrote similar words in a letter to me. I share that because I was humbled to realize, at age fifty one, maybe, just maybe I am starting to get it right - m goal as a follower of Christ, I mean.  I still have a ways to go; I know.  

Jesus' teachings are for ME; not to use as a checklist against my friends. I just try to stick to my own beliefs while loving others. Also, I am pro-life but tend be more liberal on other social issues. 

Sorry again about that humble bragging. Please don't call me Cabinet (Wo)man.

36 minutes ago, samurai_sarah said:

Why would you get in trouble? I'm an atheist and open about it, and I have no issue with your beliefs. As long as we don't try to force one another to believe in this or that, there is no issue. On the contrary, we all get to learn, and that's a great thing!

I may be completely imagining this, but I think someone at FJ found @Free Jana Duggar's blog and, realizing how conservative she was, suggested she might need to be banned.  Maybe that's why she's worried about getting in trouble. 

Or maybe I was high on cough medicine and that didn't happen. 

DID that happen?!?  I should never have typed this comment but...

submit reply. 

 

[BlackSheep]

8 minutes ago, usmcmom said:

Jesus' teachings are for ME; not to use as a checklist against my friends. I just try to stick to my own beliefs while loving others.

This is what I wanted to say but couldn't find the right words. Thank you, @usmcmom.

[Destiny]

10 minutes ago, usmcmom said:

I may be completely imagining this, but I think someone at FJ found @Free Jana Duggar's blog and, realizing how conservative she was, suggested she might need to be banned.  Maybe that's why she's worried about getting in trouble. 

People can suggest whatever the hell they want. It doesn't mean they get it. Just saying.

We don't ban people here for disagreement. We ban them for doxing, being assholes to helpmeets doing their job, and for socks. 

[foreign fundie]

Yes, I read the Bible pretty much daily and I am so thankful I can. I do realize most Christians throughout the centuries did not have this privilege, because the Bible was not there yet in its final form, because only universities and seminaries had books or because people couldn’t read. They had to make do with what other people told them. We can read for ourselves. 

The Bible challenges me, and reminds me of what my goal is, to be more like Jesus. It also comforts me when I fail or go through hard times. And it reminds me of the hope we have, if a new earth where evil will have no more foothold. The Bible stretches my thinking, points out my blind spots and pushes me out of my comfort zone. Most of all it is where I see the grace of God come alive in the stories and poetry.

I would like to be a bold and confident evangelist, because I wish for everyone in the world to have a chance to hear about Jesus. But I am much better on paper than in person when it comes to that. And I hate it that talking about faith can feel so embarrassing, but I suppose our culture (not US) is like that. It is seen as a private matter. I do lead a Bible Study group of adolescents, which I love. And I am always happy to be asked about what I believe. We often have people come over to our house, sometimes they stay for a few days, and they can see what a Christian family can look like in reality. If they like it, we are happy to tell them about why we are the way we are. 

(Edited to add: Not saying you are not a good Christian if your family is a mess, because so many things out of your control can contribute to that.)

 

[usmcmom]

1 minute ago, Destiny said:

People can suggest whatever the hell they want. It doesn't mean they get it. Just saying. We don't ban people here for disagreement. We ban them for doxing, being assholes to helpmeets doing their job, and for socks. 

I understand that and really appreciate your words. I have never felt judged or "targeted" here for being on the conservative side.  I can see, though, how it would be upsetting to see a discussion begin about you for those beliefs. Thankfully, the discussion was short lived but I'd probably be a little gun shy if that had happned to me. 

[childerowland]

12 minutes ago, usmcmom said:

I may be completely imagining this, but I think someone at FJ found @Free Jana Duggar's blog and, realizing how conservative she was, suggested she might need to be banned.  Maybe that's why she's worried about getting in trouble. 

Or maybe I was high on cough medicine and that didn't happen. 

DID that happen?!?  I should never have typed this comment but...

submit reply. 

I'm pretty sure @Free Jana Duggar posted the link to her blog herself. I don't recall anyone suggesting that she should be banned. Some people (including myself) expressed surprise that she was so anti-Lori when some of her views (and the ways in which those views were expressed on the blog) were indistinguishable from Lori's. 

[usmcmom]

2 minutes ago, childerowland said:

I'm pretty sure @Free Jana Duggar posted the link to her blog herself. I don't recall anyone suggesting that she should be banned. Some people (including myself) expressed surprise that she was so anti-Lori when some of her views (and the ways in which those views were expressed on the blog) were indistinguishable from Lori's. 

Okay. I understand. Thank you for clearing that up for me. 

Edit: Sorry for putting false information out there.

[BlackSheep]

52 minutes ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

I may get in trouble for saying this on here, but I do agree with some of the principles Lori teaches. i tend to lean to the conservative right on the controversial issues.  My problem with Lori is her extremism and her hateful attitude.

I welcome your input because if we're going to study someone like Lori from all sides, then we need to hear from all sorts of people with all sorts of beliefs and non-beliefs, all the way across the spectrum.

[samurai_sarah]

@Free Jana Duggar is welcome to express her beliefs, as we all are. FJ doesn't do witch hunts or persecution. What we do is talk.

[Destiny]

17 minutes ago, usmcmom said:

I understand that and really appreciate your words. I have never felt judged or "targeted" here for being on the conservative side.  I can see, though, how it would be upsetting to see a discussion begin about you for those beliefs. Thankfully, the discussion was short lived but I'd probably be a little gun shy if that had happned to me. 

Here's the thing. I may not agree with you, and probably don't on some issues, because I don't know if you've noticed this, but I tend to be a bit on the flaming liberal side :-P, but, I don't mind having a discussion with you about why you are wrong (SARCASM ALERT!) as long as you can defend your positions. Because God said so isn't a defence, especially when it's based on the teachings of man about the Bible. I want verifiable facts, not faith. That said, I greatly enjoy our philosophical discussion about many topics, because that's how we learn. God knows I have learned a TON from FJ. Fun fact for all of you guys: When I started on FJ, I was a Republican.

I hope that made sense. I'm grabbing a very short break from working on some projects before the downtime tonight. 

Edit: and yeah, I have a terrible memory for drama, but I'm pretty sure FJD posted the link to her blog herself, but I don't remember for certain anymore.

Tl;dr, you are welcome to have a different opinion than the "hive" but be prepared to defend it. 

[Hisey]

Free Jana--I am the most liberal of feminists and I agree with the core of some of Lori's beliefs.

I mean, I'm a SAHM, so on some level I believe it's best--if everything else is in place-- for a loving parent to be at home with a small children.. And even older children, if the alternative is that they are alone and unsupervised a lot of the time.

I mean that in a "best case scenario" kind of way. If the money's there, if mom and dad are on board, etc. I do think, in that case, it is best for the kid because there are a lot of scary people out there and small children either can't talk, or don't have the words, to tell you when they are being abused.

There's probably a few other things I agree with. Certainly it's better to eat whole foods rather than processed--though I think Lori takes it way, way, too far and has some sort of disordered thinking about eating. And recently she wrote about not telling others what to do--that's a pretty good rule of thumb for living. It's not just true for husbands (though that's what she was driving at) but for all relationships. I have a friend in a dysfunctional relationship with her partner (not an abusive one),and though I think they should divorce asap I keep this to myself and just try to support her. How do I know what's best for her, after all?

Let's see. ... I also agreed with Lori when she said that you shouldn't bitch to your adult kids if they aren't spending Xmas or Thanksgiving with you. Just say "Have a wonderful time!" I plan to do that next year if my oldest doesn't come home for Thanksgiving.

So, yes, even  stopped clock is correct twice a day.  . . no worries if you agree with her, I hardly think even Lori Alexander is wrong about 100% of things.

[HoneyBunny]

39 minutes ago, Destiny said:

Here's the thing. I may not agree with you, and probably don't on some issues, because I don't know if you've noticed this, but I tend to be a bit on the flaming liberal side :-P...

God knows I have learned a TON from FJ. Fun fact for all of you guys: When I started on FJ, I was a Republican.

Anything but that! So glad you’ve wised up! 

(Just kidding, of course!)

[Destiny]

Anything but that! So glad you’ve wised up! 
(Just kidding, of course!)

I KNOW RIGHT? Seriously though, if you’ve spent any time at all with me in the politics section, you’d know I am most definitely not one now.

[louisa05]

@Hisey Awhile back, Lori posted some list of things not to do as a wife. One was to not bitch about your husband to other people. I totally agree with that. I hate nothing more than when a group of women is together and some sort of "my husband is the most annoying" bitchfest/contest breaks out. I never participate in that. Not because my husband is not annoying sometimes, but because I don't think bitching about him to other people for fun and points is a good way to be in relationship with him. I think she had something in that list about not nagging or telling him what to do as well. I agree with that for the most part, too. I hate nagging (Mr 05 is more prone to nagging me and I don't hesitate to tell him not to) and I don't think it's my place to boss him around because he is an adult. Of course, there is a line. Lori's crap kind of implies that you can never tell a spouse what to do no matter what. There are obvious times when you need to--"grab that pan before it boils over" sort of situations. 

Other topic: I am a Catholic Christian. I rarely read the Bible. For Lent, I'm reading a commentary on Romans and it includes the text. It will be the most scripture I've read on my own in years when I am done. 

But I'm a convert. I've read the Bible. I've memorized significant portions of it. I won "find the verse the fastest" contests in Sunday School and youth group and got prizes for reciting the books in order. For six years while teaching at Christian school, I was beaten over the head with the Bible on a daily basis. Until I was emotionally black and blue. Nothing I did measured up to the Bible. Except that nothing we were talking about had a damn thing to do with the Bible (kids' penmanship, nail polish colors, catching or not catching gum chewers in class, scheduling drama rehearsals, pollen allergies,...I could keep going). What I learned is that random people interpreting the Bible for their own purposes to control and manipulate others is damn dangerous. And for a long time, I didn't want to have anything to do with the Bible. 

What I strive to do is live the way we are taught in the gospels. That is no easy task and I fail every day. But slogging through a chapter of a random book of the Bible every day is not going to help me do it. What it will do is remind me of that abuse and push me away from my real goal. 

 

 

[KDA]

7 hours ago, HoneyBunny said:

I am a Christian. I am a Catholic, one of the first Christians (added as a FU to those Evangelicals we snark on who don’t believe Catholics are Christians).  I have never read the Bible. Never.

Can I ask you a question? And it is a genuine question, borne from simply wanting to know, and not a snarky one. If you don't feel comfortable answering, I understand.

Is it standard for Catholics to not read the Bible? Or is this just your personal preference? Do you read other texts instead?

[feministxtian]

I'm enjoying this discussion about what we believe here. I love learning about what people believe and why. I love hearing about spiritual journeys. I don't have to agree 100% with anyone...nor does anyone have to agree 100% with me, but I think we can all learn something from each other...ya know? 

Now...I'm going to finish reading another geek book while hubby is at work. 

[kpmom]

2 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

@Hisey Awhile back, Lori posted some list of things not to do as a wife. One was to not bitch about your husband to other people. I totally agree with that. I hate nothing more than when a group of women is together and some sort of "my husband is the most annoying" bitchfest/contest breaks out.

 

Agree 100%  I don't like hearing men or women being disrespectful of their spouse.

Regarding reading the Bible: I consider myself a Progressive Christian (Episcopalian).  I don't read the Bible often.  In our Sunday services three readings from the Bible are given every week, one from the Old Testament, one from one of the four Gospels, and one from the Epistles.  We also recite something from Psalms weekly, 

If I do read the Bible though, I read from the Gospels pretty much exclusively.  I don't consider Paul the equivalent of Jesus, or that he spoke for God, so I don't feel the need to follow what he says about women submitting, slaves obeying, or much of anything else.  I don't consider his letters the word of God.  To me, his letters are an interesting peek into the early church, nothing more.  Since I consider myself a Christian, it's Jesus' words I should be following.

And Jesus said he came to complete the law, so I don't worry about the rules of the Old Testament either.