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47of74

Macy's going to sell hijabs

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formergothardite
1 hour ago, Ignorance Bread said:

If hijab is so awesome and cultural, why don't the men wear them?

Why don't men in typically walk around in cute summer dresses? 

The cross typically represents Christianity and Christianity in many places and times has been used to oppress women. Do you think that stores that making, selling, and wearing cross jewelry should not be celebrated? 

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Four is Enough
26 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

The cross typically represents Christianity and Christianity in many places and times has been used to oppress women. Do you think that stores that making, selling, and wearing cross jewelry should not be celebrated? 

IS it celebrated? Or just sold?

It's the FORCING people to wear the cross or crucifix or purity ring or what have you that should not be celebrated. Clothing and adornments should be chosen, for reasons only the person choosing them needs to know. If religious beliefs are part of that reason, so be it.

I recall someone saying she knew a Muslim woman who wore the hijab, because it reminded her of her beliefs at times when she may have been tempted to do something counter to the beliefs. (paraphrased) I submit to you that people wear their crosses, star of David necklaces, wedding rings..... for similar reasons.

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formergothardite
4 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

Clothing and adornments should be chosen, for reasons only the person choosing them needs to know. If religious beliefs are part of that reason, so be it.

ITA. Like I said earlier, no women needs to explain her clothing choices. 

The point I was trying to make was that @Ignorance Bread seemed to have no issue with things like cross jewelry, even though crosses can also be seen as a symbol of subjugating women, while she said her issue with the hijab was that it was a symbol of subjugating women, even if some women choose to wear them and aren't forced. One symbol is okay with her, while the other isn't. 

No one should be forced to wear long skirts, or have long hair or cover their hair, or wear religious jewelry(there was an IFB family I met who only allowed their daughters to wear jewelry that was crosses or Bibles), but if someone chooses that and isn't going like Jill Rod calling women sluts, then can we really say that they are being oppressed? Someone might look at me with my long hair and long skirts and think I'm a poor oppressed fundie wife, but I just like that look. 

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Ignorance Bread
24 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

 

The point I was trying to make was that @Ignorance Bread seemed to have no issue with things like cross jewelry, even though crosses can also be seen as a symbol of subjugating women, while she said her issue with the hijab was that it was a symbol of subjugating women, even if some women choose to wear them and aren't forced. One symbol is okay with her, while the other isn't. 

 

I actually don't wear crosses and I'm not Christian. I was trying to make the point that sometimes the symbolism for a piece of clothing can't be separated from the wearer's intention. If I wear a red suit and a white beard, you're going to think Santa Claus, even if I just think I'm cute.

To give you an idea of the type of person I am - I do not wear a wedding ring and I didn't take my husband's last name (but I told him that he was free to take mine) because I don't like the historical connection to the idea of woman as property. I don't care if my women friends do that, just like I don't care if they wear hijab. But for me, I see it as a throwback to when women were property in the Western World. 

I will fight to my dying breath to let people practice what religion they want and wear what they want. All I said was that some women are oppressed and forced to wear hijab and that's enough reason for me not to celebrate it. That's totally valid. 

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nausicaa
38 minutes ago, Ignorance Bread said:

I will fight to my dying breath to let people practice what religion they want and wear what they want. All I said was that some women are oppressed and forced to wear hijab and that's enough reason for me not to celebrate it. That's totally valid. 

You didn't say some women are oppressed and forced to wear hijab. You said the following:

Quote

I don't get it. Women are forced to wear hijabs because of their patriarchal religion/culture . Why are you snarking on fundies for forcing women to wear skirts, submit to their headship, etc, but all cool with hijabs? It is literally the same thing.

Which is the reason why you are getting push back. Not all women are forced to wear hijab, and it is not always because of a patriarchal religion/culture. Hijabs are not literally the same thing as men forcing women to wear skirts, since, as we have stated ad nauseam on this thread, some women choose to wear a headscarf for a plethora of reasons. 

Since you claim to be a professor and a published author, I would think you would be more skilled in your writing and rhetoric. :my_confused:

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Ignorance Bread
3 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

You didn't say some women are oppressed and forced to wear hijab. You said the following:

Which is the reason why you are getting push back. Not all women are forced to wear hijab, and it is not always because of a patriarchal religion/culture. Hijabs are not literally the same thing as men forcing women to wear skirts, since, as we have stated ad nauseam on this thread, some women choose to wear a headscarf for a plethora of reasons. 

Since you claim to be a professor and a published author, I would think you would be more skilled in your writing and rhetoric. :my_confused:

 

I didn't say all women who wear hijab or all women who wear skirts.

Sometimes my spelling is poor because I speak and text in three languages, so my phone's autocomplete has a mind of its own.  I apologize.

As far as my credentials as a professor and published author, if anyone cares - I'd be happy to submit proof to an admin. 

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Four is Enough

@Ignorance Bread, I do wear two wedding rings, but I didn't take Mr. Four's name, either, one, because I would have gone from the front of the alphabet to the end, and two, because I was older a nd quite used to having my own name. I realize that the name I have is my father's name, yet I am content to have that.

When we walked down the aisle to our wedding, Mr. Four and I walked together, with my parents and his in seats at the front of the church..

Each to her own.. and I agree, I'll fight for the right for people to make up their own minds...

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Terrie

*yawn* I live in an area with a very large Muslim population. Some women wear the hijab because their religious community demands it. Some wear it because of cultural tradition. Some wear it because of cultural pressure. Some wear it because of their personal beliefs and views. Some wear it because they just plain like wearing it. And some don't wear it. I'm not going to interview every hijab wearing woman to judge if she's wearing it for reasons I'm okay with. Any woman in America would have to be living under a rock to not know there are plenty of Muslim women who don't wear the hijab outside of attending mosque. 

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formergothardite
On 2/9/2018 at 1:51 PM, Ignorance Bread said:

I was trying to make the point that sometimes the symbolism for a piece of clothing can't be separated from the wearer's intention. I

 

On 2/9/2018 at 1:51 PM, Ignorance Bread said:

All I said was that some women are oppressed and forced to wear hijab and that's enough reason for me not to celebrate it.

So because I tend to dress in a sort of fundie way(seriously, I've had people say things like "I can tell you are a Christian" :roll:) no one should celebrate when stores sell clothing I like because there are some women forced to wear those clothes? 

 I glanced at some of the clothing Macy's is offering and I would not look at women wearing some of those outfits and think Muslim. I would think, stylish woman who can afford expensive clothing and knows how to do cool things with a scarf. 

Spoiler

macy.thumb.jpg.bef9850a2a52d8d1b4eba370f4484723.jpg

 

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Marly
On 9-2-2018 at 6:34 PM, formergothardite said:

Why don't men in typically walk around in cute summer dresses? 

 

Because of the patriarchy and its poisonous masculinity ideals.

I find this a difficult topic. I have read the Quran, and the idea behind women wearing a hijab is because their hair is seen as something intimate they need to cover because it's only for their husband to see. So they do need to cover themselves up for men. You can go read the Quran or visit a website where they explain Quran passages, it will tell you this. Personally, I think that this is a form of subjugation. If you have to wear certain clothes/are not allowed to wear certain types of clothing because you're a woman and your religion states that wearing/not wearing something might arouse men and you’re only allowed to inspire those feelings in your husband, I think that’s oppression. Women are more than lust objects, and women (and what they do or do not wear) should not be held responsible for men not being able to control their behavior. 
Yes, men also have to dress modestly, but this is (generally) a lot less strict (and restricting) than the rules for women are. Yet, they are still inspired by harmful patriarchal beliefs, usually, and I therefore disagree with those clothing rules as well. As long as certain habits/rules spring out of and/or support harmful beliefs, I cannot say that I support it.
However, at the same time I also think it’s wrong to deny people to wear the clothing they want to wear, as long as they freely choose to wear it and the specific clothing item doesn’t harm those who don’t want to wear it. But religiously inspired clothing items remains a problematic issue to me, because of the ideology behind those rules. And I do think it’s important that people are aware of the ideologies behind certain religious clothing rules.

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Four is Enough
On 2/13/2018 at 7:34 AM, Marly said:


Yes, men also have to dress modestly, but this is (generally) a lot less strict (and restricting) than the rules for women are. Yet, they are still inspired by harmful patriarchal beliefs, usually, and I therefore disagree with those clothing rules as well. As long as certain habits/rules spring out of and/or support harmful beliefs, I cannot say that I support it.
However, at the same time I also think it’s wrong to deny people to wear the clothing they want to wear, as long as they freely choose to wear it and the specific clothing item doesn’t harm those who don’t want to wear it. But religiously inspired clothing items remains a problematic issue to me, because of the ideology behind those rules. And I do think it’s important that people are aware of the ideologies behind certain religious clothing rules.

Bolding mine. If the Quran insists that both men and women dress modestly, and keep their bodies "under wraps" for their spouse only, I don't see the problem here. I will be the first to admit that I do not know how restrictive and detailed these clothing restrictions are, but a religious adjuration to all to be modest hardly offends me.

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