Joy and Austin: 248 Days Since the Wedding and Still Counting

[Crazy Enough to Join]

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

I agree about the no help being a harsh reality for the 2nd generation parents.  We saw how Jill responded to being in Central America, although for a fairly rugged locale, the Dillards were housed in what appeared to be a decent,  functional  and fairly protected place.

Yeah hanging out at the Duggars' house is still probably a break even without them being helpful just b/c there are new toys and kids to play with and some adult conversation. I'm sure it is harder for the duggar kids who aren't close to home.

[AtlanticTug]

I'm sure that TTH is basically a makeshift daycare.

And they have enough help/sister-moms to last a while. Jill and Derrick can and do take the boys to TTH. Additionally, Cathy is a very involved grandma (hopefully not with her damn rod) and has clearly watched those boys a lot and taken at least Israel in for extended periods. She is a widow and has no other grandchildren yet and nothing else to do aside from defending her idiot son on Twitter so Jill and Derrick really don't need a sister-mom that much. And if they did, my guess is that Jenni would be more than thrilled to go "home" to her real mom Jill under the pretense of helping out. Plus, Jill and Derrick aren't going to have that many more children anyway, realistically speaking. Anna has never really relied that much on the older Duggar daughters anyway. I remember Jana making a trip to DC a few times but Anna was really on her own mostly and functioning fine. And Mac is 8 and can be helpful soon. So who is left? Joy and Kendra will only have 1 child for a while so they won't be in dire straits for a few years. Kendra's and Austin's parents/families could also pitch in like Cathy does, they are wild cards here. Jinger isn't close by and I'm very doubtful that she and Jeremy will have a herd quickly. Jessa has 2, they clearly do spend lots of time at TTH and we know that some of her younger sisters have been sent over to clean the house after Henry was born. Jessa is probably the biggest threat to the young Duggar girls like Johanna on down, but by the time she has a third, Johannah will be 13 and fairly easy to farm out and useful.

In other words, I think that this shambles operation can keep going easily for the next 5 years before the problems arise depending on how many other Duggars are married off and breeding.

[SassyPants]

13 hours ago, AtlanticTug said:

I'm sure that TTH is basically a makeshift daycare.

And they have enough help/sister-moms to last a while. Jill and Derrick can and do take the boys to TTH. Additionally, Cathy is a very involved grandma (hopefully not with her damn rod) and has clearly watched those boys a lot and taken at least Israel in for extended periods. She is a widow and has no other grandchildren yet and nothing else to do aside from defending her idiot son on Twitter so Jill and Derrick really don't need a sister-mom that much. And if they did, my guess is that Jenni would be more than thrilled to go "home" to her real mom Jill under the pretense of helping out. Plus, Jill and Derrick aren't going to have that many more children anyway, realistically speaking. Anna has never really relied that much on the older Duggar daughters anyway. I remember Jana making a trip to DC a few times but Anna was really on her own mostly and functioning fine. And Mac is 8 and can be helpful soon. So who is left? Joy and Kendra will only have 1 child for a while so they won't be in dire straits for a few years. Kendra's and Austin's parents/families could also pitch in like Cathy does, they are wild cards here. Jinger isn't close by and I'm very doubtful that she and Jeremy will have a herd quickly. Jessa has 2, they clearly do spend lots of time at TTH and we know that some of her younger sisters have been sent over to clean the house after Henry was born. Jessa is probably the biggest threat to the young Duggar girls like Johanna on down, but by the time she has a third, Johannah will be 13 and fairly easy to farm out and useful.

In other words, I think that this shambles operation can keep going easily for the next 5 years before the problems arise depending on how many other Duggars are married off and breeding.

In addition, it's not like the standards are so high that they are unachievable. These kids are all use to barely getting by (think multiple people to a bed, someone sleeping on the couch, feeding babies cold peas, straight from the tin can with a large tablespoon, while lying on their backs, no sheets on the bed, dirty diapers pulled on top of the dresser, and on and on...). 

[JMO]

I have to admit that I'm officially on baby watch for these two. I'm not excited about it but I am. 

[Tangy Bee]

15 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

In addition, it's not like the standards are so high that they are unachievable. These kids are all use to barely getting by (think multiple people to a bed, someone sleeping on the couch, feeding babies cold peas, straight from the tin can with a large tablespoon, while lying on their backs, no sheets on the bed, dirty diapers pulled on top of the dresser, and on and on...). 

Eww yep! I remember Jill feeding Jackson with a can of peas. It was probably Michelle that told her to do it. Guess baby food was not an option. Well Jackson turned out ok...as far as we know. He's a cute lil dude. Hope he gets to dance when he wants one day.

[new espadrille]

Looks like my guess of 16th was wrong, since they're usually pretty quick to announce.

Dammit, I just wanna see the baby. Come on, Joy!

[melon]

I hope Joy has the baby around the 1st of March.

 

[Dandruff]

I hope the baby comes today.  Joy must be uncomfortable and I feel like we've waited long enough.

[Kangaroo]

57 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I hope the baby comes today.  Joy must be uncomfortable and I feel like we've waited long enough.

I'm kind of hoping she gives birth on the 26th, just so it's exactly 40 weeks since her wedding which would annoy the gossip magazines.

(My guess on the name thread was the 16th, but here I was hoping a Duggar daughter would have a baby before her due date for once!)

[melon]

Yes!That would annoy the gossips and haters.

[Glasgowghirl]

1 hour ago, melon said:

Yes!That would annoy the gossips and haters.

I hope so too for her sake, even being a day or two early is enough to make them believe that she had sex before marriage. 

[SweetJuly]

If you're in the public eye for pushing concepts such as modesty and purity, and then conceive basically on your wedding night, you will need to live with the fact that some people might speculate.

Sucks for Joy on a personal level, but you reap what you sow.

[Letizia]

On 2/15/2018 at 9:40 PM, mstee said:

I’m 26 weeks pregnant and took a while to show due to big winter sweaters. Now that I am, though, I’m getting all kinds of belly touches. I’m not yet annoyed but talk to me in a week, haha. 

As far as glowing, I wouldn’t find it offensive. I wouldn’t believe you if you told me though. Up until a few weeks ago, my mom had to point out how pale and sickly I looked. Every time she saw a new pic. Sorry but I can’t change my damn pregnancy complexion! I feel like I look similar to Joy- I’m on the shorter side and kind of have that tired look too (no offense to her, pregnancy is super tiring. I find myself huffing and puffing for no good reason). 

When my resting bitch face didn’t stop someone I would hiss. Literally hiss like a pissed off cat. People would either flee because a human just straight up hissed at them or they would say,”Did you just hiss at me?” My response would be,”Did you just touch a stranger without permission.?”  Video from my baby shower actually picked up my MIL saying to her friends,”Ya’ll I’m saying this in all seriousness, please don’t touch her or she will hiss at you.”  

[singsingsing]

5 hours ago, SweetJuly said:

If you're in the public eye for pushing concepts such as modesty and purity, and then conceive basically on your wedding night, you will need to live with the fact that some people might speculate.

Sucks for Joy on a personal level, but you reap what you sow.

I more or less agree. Note that you didn't say 'people should spread rumours that she was knocked up before the wedding'. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but to me there's a big difference between actually speculating that she had sex before she was married, and saying that such speculation is something that she just has to live with. The latter is true. 

I personally do not believe that she had sex before she was married, and I think such rumour-spreading is fairly gross and uncalled for. But I'm also finding I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for someone who wants to actively push a political agenda which would rob every other woman in the United States of reproductive rights and even certain other human rights, who will probably beat her children, who will raise her children to be uneducated, ignorant, bigoted extremists bent on turning the U.S. into a theocracy, who actively judges and participates in the shaming of other women, and who profits off this lifestyle.

Do I think it's nice to spread rumours like this? Nope. Do I think they're accurate? Nope. Do I feel sorry for her because of it? Nope, not really. I seriously doubt she feels even an ounce of pity for the people (such as trans people) her family has actively persecuted and spread lies about. She is an adult, and she has chosen to continue to be in the public eye, to continue to spread her family's toxic agenda, and to continue to make money doing it. If the glow of being praised and adulated in her own community for getting married at 19 and immediately getting pregnant is tarnished a little by some random people on the internet who want to speculate that she was having sex before she was married, oh well.

[SweetJuly]

@singsingsing Thank you for understanding and expanding on what I meant.

To clarify, I don't think people should spread rumours about Joy. In fact, I find unnecessary, intrusive, and gross, and I have always supported anyone on FJ arguing to stop such speculation when it was threatening to take off here.

However, it is simply inevitable that some people will speculate given the culture, lifestyle, and mindset in which Joy lives and which she chooses to actively perpetuate.

[Emkay]

Did Jill and Derek get this kind of speculation? I remember it being more of a ‘wow, she’s fertile!’ to have gotten pregnant right after their wedding. What makes Joy and Austin different? 

[tabitha2]

No. Jill has always been shown to be a rule following goody goody who would absolutely never do such a thing. Joy has or had a little contrary streak or nascent rebellious tendencies in her or so some people want to believe. So that translates into she must have thrown away a lifetime of training and the fear of going to hell  to have premarital Sex. Because that makes perfect sense. 

[JillyO]

Actually, there was also some speculation about Jill and Derick. Mostly toward the end of her pregnancy since she carried so big and many people though she would give birth way before her proclaimed due date. Now if she got pregnant before their wedding, she'd probably be in the Guiness Book of Records for world's longest pregnancy.

[Dr. Fundie Stalker]

On 2018-02-16 at 5:03 PM, Crazy Enough to Join said:

Yeah hanging out at the Duggars' house is still probably a break even without them being helpful just b/c there are new toys and kids to play with and some adult conversation. I'm sure it is harder for the duggar kids who aren't close to home.

I want to snark but that is just out of jealousy. I am an only child who would love to have a few siblings with their kids dropping in and out of the family home. 

It would be a nice break and like a playdate. It is comfortable and relaxed and you don't have to drag a tone of stuff with you.

the Duggar kids go home and don't really worry about diapers, or wipes, or sippy cups or (Rufus help me) pregnancy tests.  

[Dugg@rTime]

I think part of there being more widespread speculation about Joy and Austin having premarital relations stems from a misunderstanding about the fake wedding date they put on their gift grab gift list (October) being real, and so when they actually got married much earlier it must have been brought forward for a reason (nudge nudge, wink wink).

[VelociRapture]

I honestly don’t have any sympathy to spare for them anymore. They vote for politicians who would take away a woman’s right to choose, the right to use birth control, and the rights of LGBTQ people (like my brother.) They also very likely support politicians heavily backed by the NRA and who very much oppose even the least controversial legislation concerning guns. I just can’t muster up sympathy for people who would fight so fiercely for an unborn child, but who could care less about taking even basic steps to help prevent living and breathing children from being killed in school shootings.

(Note, I’m not against responsible gun ownership. I am very much against gun fanatics who would put their right to own weapons over a child’s life though. There is a big difference and I think it’s important to acknowledge that there are many reasonable gun owners in the states who deeply care about the welfare of other humans.)

ETA: I should also be clear that I don’t agree with starting or spreading rumors though. I’m personally not comfortable speculating about a (then) unwed teenager’s sex life because it’s none of my business. But I also don’t feel bad that they have to deal with rumors either. 

[RubyRei]

On 2/18/2018 at 4:00 AM, SweetJuly said:

If you're in the public eye for pushing concepts such as modesty and purity, and then conceive basically on your wedding night, you will need to live with the fact that some people might speculate.

Sucks for Joy on a personal level, but you reap what you sow.

Bolding in the above is mine.

I know there is constant talk of when to start holding fundie children accountable for their bigoted beliefs and I know there is no easy answer. I also want to state that I believe the opposite of everything this whole family, including Joy, espouses. 

Of course anyone can be speculated about and being a well-known public figure adds to this.... BUT, what’s really important in this conversation is remembering that Joy was just shy of seven years old during the first special (if I calculated correctly). Joy was a child when her parents forced this all upon her. I’m not surprised that a person with a cult-like mentality would continue to appear on TV if that is what their family has done their whole life. 

Yes, Joy has bad beliefs. But Joy didn’t choose the public life and has been forced into it for the majority of her short 20 years. To say that she should be held accountable for choosing to be on TV or that this is what she “sowed” doesn’t sit quite right with me. 

If these were courtship rumors or something of the sort, I wouldn’t care as much. But accusing her of throwing essentially her most important belief aside with zero evidence to back it up is defamation and so truly below the belt. 

Tl;dr: I know everyone here agrees the premarital sex rumors are morally reprehensible, but don’t forget, before you place some of the blame on her choosing to be famous, that she never truly had a choice in being thrust into the spotlight. She still might not have the “choice”. 

[Rosalie]

In addition to what @RubyRei wrote, we have to remember that the young Duggar adults have been indoctrinated with anti abortion propaganda alongside with all the other extreme beliefs from they were very young. Add next to no contact with anyone except other fundies, there is no wonder they are bigoted. They are simply a product of their upbringing.

[sansan]

On 2/18/2018 at 11:05 AM, Emkay said:

Did Jill and Derek get this kind of speculation? I remember it being more of a ‘wow, she’s fertile!’ to have gotten pregnant right after their wedding. What makes Joy and Austin different? 

I could be wrong but I thought people jumped to the conclusion about Joy and Austin because of her accelerated bump growth. She looked so pregnant very early on. She did look more normal in the later stages. I am not sure if I could care any less if they had sex early, much like so many couples. And before anyone jumps on my opinion about it, many people have declared innocence in the way of the world and were humping like bunnies before the walk down the aisle. Again, it matters not to me.

 

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, RubyRei said:

Bolding in the above is mine.

I know there is constant talk of when to start holding fundie children accountable for their bigoted beliefs and I know there is no easy answer. I also want to state that I believe the opposite of everything this whole family, including Joy, espouses. 

Of course anyone can be speculated about and being a well-known public figure adds to this.... BUT, what’s really important in this conversation is remembering that Joy was just shy of seven years old during the first special (if I calculated correctly). Joy was a child when her parents forced this all upon her. I’m not surprised that a person with a cult-like mentality would continue to appear on TV if that is what their family has done their whole life. 

Yes, Joy has bad beliefs. But Joy didn’t choose the public life and has been forced into it for the majority of her short 20 years. To say that she should be held accountable for choosing to be on TV or that this is what she “sowed” doesn’t sit quite right with me. 

If these were courtship rumors or something of the sort, I wouldn’t care as much. But accusing her of throwing essentially her most important belief aside with zero evidence to back it up is defamation and so truly below the belt. 

Tl;dr: I know everyone here agrees the premarital sex rumors are morally reprehensible, but don’t forget, before you place some of the blame on her choosing to be famous, that she never truly had a choice in being thrust into the spotlight. She still might not have the “choice”. 

She's  actively making the choice now, and will soon be making it for her own dependent child; selling his or her name (anonymity) and private moments away for easy cash. Sorry, the time of  innocence on her part, with regards to this topic, has expired, IMO.