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Coconut Flan

Dillards 44: Still Pretending to Missionary to College Students

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Coconut Flan

Continued from here:

 

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Aggie2145

Great title - I love how you made Missionary a verb!

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VelociRapture

Someone in the last thread mentioned Medical Assisting as possibly being a good fit for Jill and I agree.  She could pursue a degree at a local community college or university. Depending on the place she works she might have a pretty set schedule and she’d be able to bring money in doing something legitimately useful. 

I doubt it’ll ever happen, but I think that’d likely be the best path forward for her if she were interested and when the kids are young. I don’t think it’s be easy, but I think it’d be doable. 

Another poster mentioned how she could redo her Midwife requirements, but I don’t think that would be so simple. As far as I know, she lost all her practical hours when Venessa lost her license. I don’t know how long it would take for Jill to relog those hours with another Midwife or if another licensed Midwife would be willing to accept her as an Apprentice at this point. 

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Buzzard
18 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

She could pursue a degree at a local community college or university.

I think she'd sooner shave her head and tattoo her eyebrows purple than get a heathen working wimminz degree!  She's too godly and shit for that!

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bekkah
24 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Someone in the last thread mentioned Medical Assisting as possibly being a good fit for Jill and I agree.  She could pursue a degree at a local community college or university. Depending on the place she works she might have a pretty set schedule and she’d be able to bring money in doing something legitimately useful. 

I doubt it’ll ever happen, but I think that’d likely be the best path forward for her if she were interested and when the kids are young. I don’t think it’s be easy, but I think it’d be doable. 

I was the one who mentioned it.  I think with her training in midwife, it would actually be an easy transition for her. She could get a really job that makes an average of 30,000 dollars a year. Not too shabby. 

 

I want Jill to find a purpose outside the home and away from Derick and away from the Duggars. Sadly, I don't see that happening till the show ends and they actually have to start supporting themselves. 

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Palimpsest
20 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Another poster mentioned how she could redo her Midwife requirements, but I don’t think that would be so simple.

I think Jill could definitely redo those hours if she wanted although she might also have to redo the exam.  There is a need for more lay midwives, among the Fundie population at least.  I'm skeptical about them and think people should always use RN midwives because of people like Vanessa Giron.

However, the midwifery training was probably just to fill in time until Jill got married.  She's now a SAHM by Duggar rules and never to work outside the home again.

It might be something she could fall back on in the future, I suppose.  I wish more of these young Fundie women considered the possibility they might be widowed, deserted, or divorced by their Headships. 

Jana was also in that midwifery program and lost her hours.  However, it seemed mainly to chaperone Jill, not because Jana was particularly interested in being a doula or a midwife herself.  We haven't heard anything about Jana redoing hours.

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HarryPotterFan

@Palimpsest Who is the rage inducing woman you mentioned in the last thread? Ugh, ever since learning about the truth behind orphanages from Lumos (J.K. Rowling's non-profit) hearing about voluntourists at orphanages makes me ragey. Child trafficking, termination of parental rights without parental knowledge....horrible stuff. And these types of people keep that "industry" going.

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

Someone in the last thread mentioned Medical Assisting as possibly being a good fit for Jill and I agree.  She could pursue a degree at a local community college or university. Depending on the place she works she might have a pretty set schedule and she’d be able to bring money in doing something legitimately useful. 

I doubt it’ll ever happen, but I think that’d likely be the best path forward for her if she were interested and when the kids are young. I don’t think it’s be easy, but I think it’d be doable. 

Another poster mentioned how she could redo her Midwife requirements, but I don’t think that would be so simple. As far as I know, she lost all her practical hours when Venessa lost her license. I don’t know how long it would take for Jill to relog those hours with another Midwife or if another licensed Midwife would be willing to accept her as an Apprentice at this point. 

If Jenelle Evans of Teen Mom 2 fame can get her medical assistants degree, anyone can. That said, she's not using it and I don't know if she even tried. I can't imagine a doctor's office or hospital hiring someone with a long rap sheet and history of drug abuse...

Edited by HarryPotterFan
Truth, not Ruth. Though considering RR it's a funny typo.

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Palimpsest
Just now, HarryPotterFan said:

@Palimpsest Who is the rage inducing woman you mentioned in the last thread?

I just started a new thread on Selina Bergey "missionary to orphans" in South Africa in QOS.  I dislike her for many things but the way she has treated her oldest adopted daughter made me particularly sick.  Enjoy - or not.

 

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VelociRapture
2 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I think Jill could definitely redo those hours if she wanted although she might also have to redo the exam.  There is a need for more lay midwives, among the Fundie population at least.  I'm skeptical about them and think people should always use RN midwives because of people like Vanessa Giron.

However, the midwifery training was probably just to fill in time until Jill got married.  She's now a SAHM by Duggar rules and never to work outside the home again.

It might be something she could fall back on in the future, I suppose.  I wish more of these young Fundie women considered the possibility they might be widowed, deserted, or divorced by their Headships. 

Jana was also in that midwifery program and lost her hours.  However, it seemed mainly to chaperone Jill, not because Jana was particularly interested in being a doula or a midwife herself.  We haven't heard anything about Jana redoing hours.

Jill has assisted with births since marriage*. I think she has a genuine interest, but (like you said) I don’t think she’ll have the option to pursue it further right now - which is good because she trained under Venessa. If she redid her practical hours under a better qualified Midwife who knows what they’re doing then maybe I’d feel differently. 

*Most recent we know of was in the summer of 2016. She apparently assisted with a delivery in Tulsa... at A Mother’s Butterfly Midwifery. Jill just can’t quit Venessa. 

2 hours ago, Buzzard said:

I think she'd sooner shave her head and tattoo her eyebrows purple than get a heathen working wimminz degree!  She's too godly and shit for that!

Lol! I completely agree, which is why I think it’s unlikely. 

 

54 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

@Palimpsest Who is the rage inducing woman you mentioned in the last thread? Ugh, ever since learning about the truth behind orphanages from Lumos (J.K. Rowling's non-profit) hearing about voluntourists at orphanages makes me ragey. Child trafficking, termination of parental rights without parental knowledge....horrible stuff. And these types of people keep that "industry" going.

If Jenelle Evans of Teen Mom 2 fame can get her medical assistants degree, anyone can. That said, she's not using it and I don't know if she even tried. I can't imagine a doctor's office or hospital hiring someone with a long rap sheet and history of drug abuse...

Yeah. Me either. Are most of the other Teen Moms using their degrees? I don’t follow closely, but I know that Chelsea at least is using her training as a stylist at a salon. 

Edited by VelociRapture

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singsingsing
1 hour ago, HarryPotterFan said:

Ugh, ever since learning about the truth behind orphanages from Lumos (J.K. Rowling's non-profit) hearing about voluntourists at orphanages makes me ragey. Child trafficking, termination of parental rights without parental knowledge....horrible stuff. And these types of people keep that "industry" going.

Check out orphanages in Quebec in the first half of the 20th century. For anyone who's interested, google Duplessis orphans. Truly evil and shocking stuff, and it wasn't happening that long ago in our Western, 'civilized' country! And yeah, the vast majority of kids in those orphanages were not orphans at all. Just like orphanages in the developing world today. I imagine there are a lot of well-meaning parents who adopted from overseas, who had no idea that the child they adopted might have been stolen/trafficked, and that's to say nothing of the biological parents who lost their child. Just awful.

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Palimpsest
16 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Jill has assisted with births since marriage*. I think she has a genuine interest, but (like you said) I don’t think she’ll have the option to pursue it further right now - which is good because she trained under Venessa. If she redid her practical hours under a better qualified Midwife who knows what they’re doing then maybe I’d feel differently. 

*Most recently in the summer of 2016. She apparently assisted with a delivery in Tulsa... at A Mother’s Butterfly Midwifery. Jill just can’t quit Venessa. 

I do think Jill has a genuine interest and should be allowed to finish her certification and redo those practical hours working under a better midwife.  I think she got screwed.

I'm sure she adores Venessa and thinks she was persecuted for omitting to screen for a pesky little thing like group b strep.  So what if babies nearly die through the inadequate care of some lay midwife - it must have been God's will. \sarcasm

If she is still hanging out with Venessa though and "assisting" her in other states then that is bad news.  Venessa only lost her licence in AR - and I thought she was practicing in TX these days.  I'm out of date. 

Seriously, Jill is taking some risks if actively assisting in deliveries in states where she is not on the official apprentice list.  She'll have to high tail it out the back door if anything goes wrong.  

Just like Jessa's "midwife" did after Jessa started bleeding buckets with Spurgeon's birth, IIRC.

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HideousGreenShirt

"Baby catcher" is such a creepy term. Makes me think of big fundie claws snatching the baby up from the delivery and indoctrinating it immediately.

Or the child catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Brrrrrr :my_confused:

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HarryPotterFan
17 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Yeah. Me either. Are most of the other Teen Moms using their degrees? I don’t follow closely, but I know that Chelsea at least is using her training as a stylist at a salon. 

I am ashamed to admit how much I know about those people. Though the show isn't enjoyable anymore because the producers clearly don't value human life. Chelsea is not working at a salon anymore, she's a SAHM. But unlike the other SAHM on the show, she actually parents her kids (including a super adorable baby) and has an income besides the show (her husband does something or other...). Maci might be doing something with her degree? Not sure.

I know too much about these people.

7 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Check out orphanages in Quebec in the first half of the 20th century. For anyone who's interested, google Duplessis orphans. Truly evil and shocking stuff, and it wasn't happening that long ago in our Western, 'civilized' country! And yeah, the vast majority of kids in those orphanages were not orphans at all. Just like orphanages in the developing world today. I imagine there are a lot of well-meaning parents who adopted from overseas, who had no idea that the child they adopted might have been stolen/trafficked, and that's to say nothing of the biological parents who lost their child. Just awful.

I will! I recently read a story about an American family who discovered that the orphanage they adopted their child from tricked her bio mom, and that the child's bio mom had no idea she terminated her parental rights (there was no concept of this in her culture). So the adoptive parents found the bio mom, terminated their parental rights, and reunited them. It was heartbreaking for all involved, but they felt compassion for the bio mom and thought it was for the best. They keep in ouch. I should see if I can find it.

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Carm_88

Jill liked babies, so being a midwife was the thing to be before Prince Charming came along. Too bad he turned into a frog. 

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Audrey2
3 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Someone in the last thread mentioned Medical Assisting as possibly being a good fit for Jill and I agree.  She could pursue a degree at a local community college or university. Depending on the place she works she might have a pretty set schedule and she’d be able to bring money in doing something legitimately useful. 

I doubt it’ll ever happen, but I think that’d likely be the best path forward for her if she were interested and when the kids are young. I don’t think it’s be easy, but I think it’d be doable. 

 

That's just crazy talk! It would be bad enough that Jill is working outside the home, and much, much worse that she is earning a lot more than her husband!

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singsingsing

I think midwifery was Jill's compromise career. Originally she wanted to be a nurse. Obviously she'd never even contemplate being a doctor, because that's not an appropriate job for a woman, unless said female doctor is one the Duggars are depending on to treat them. :pb_rollseyes: But then (I'm sure) Jill's parents sat her down and gently warned her about all the frightening and sinful things that would come with being a nurse, like having to treat godless heathens who use drugs or alcohol, unwed mothers, having to hear about BIRTH CONTROL in a positive context, and having to see and maybe even TOUCH penises! But as a midwife she would only be treating other women, and she could pretty easily tailor things so that she wasn't coming into contact with anyone too scary or sinful. So midwifery it was.

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nolongerIFBx
2 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

. . .

Jana was also in that midwifery program and lost her hours.  However, it seemed mainly to chaperone Jill, not because Jana was particularly interested in being a doula or a midwife herself.  We haven't heard anything about Jana redoing hours.

Jana did say that she wanted to be a midwife in very early specials. I took screen captions and posted them several years ago, but I don't want to go look them up again now, LOL.

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VelociRapture
2 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

I am ashamed to admit how much I know about those people. Though the show isn't enjoyable anymore because the producers clearly don't value human life. Chelsea is not working at a salon anymore, she's a SAHM. But unlike the other SAHM on the show, she actually parents her kids (including a super adorable baby) and has an income besides the show (her husband does something or other...). Maci might be doing something with her degree? Not sure.

I know too much about these people.

I will! I recently read a story about an American family who discovered that the orphanage they adopted their child from tricked her bio mom, and that the child's bio mom had no idea she terminated her parental rights (there was no concept of this in her culture). So the adoptive parents found the bio mom, terminated their parental rights, and reunited them. It was heartbreaking for all involved, but they felt compassion for the bio mom and thought it was for the best. They keep in ouch. I should see if I can find it.

That adoption story is heartbreaking and beautiful at the same time. How horrible for all the parents involved - the biological mother whos child was stolen and the adoptive parents who have such selflessness and compassion. I hope all the parties involved are doing ok. 

Adoption in the states can be better regulated than international - but they too can be iffy, mostly because state laws differ so much. What’s legal in one state may not be legal in another. There was one story recently about a black father in the States who went to court and won custody of his daughter (Skylar) after her white mother put her up for adoption without his knowledge or consent (I mention race because it was a motivating factor in the adoption.) I can’t remember what state he was in, but I believe the adoptive couple were in South Carolina and they used a lawyer named Godwin - he was the lawyer for adoptive couples in the cases of Baby Veronica and Baby Deseray. I don’t know much about him, but I’m not a fan.

The father in this case had to prove he was involved during the pregnancy using text messages and the fact that he was registered in the Punative Father’s Registry - he barely had time to contest the adoption to begin with because he was only served notice about it with one day left to contest. He managed to do it though and he worked hard to prove his case. It still took three months for his daughter to be returned to him, but her mother terminated her parental rights and he seems absolutely thrilled to have his daughter back. 

ETA: I just want to be clear that I’m not anti-adoption. I think adoption is a beautiful way to build a family. I’d just like to see more oversight for all adoptions  (domestic and international) - to be positive that the child in question actually needs a family and that no one is doing anything illegal. 

Edited by VelociRapture

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Palimpsest
9 minutes ago, HideousGreenShirt said:

"Baby catcher" is such a creepy term. Makes me think of big fundie claws snatching the baby up from the delivery and indoctrinating it immediately. 

For those who have not yet read it:  The Child Catchers: Rescue, Trafficking, and the New Gospel of Adoption by Kathryn Joyce.  Or anything by Kathryn Joyce.

@singsingsing, not just Canada, the Home Children were sent to Australia and other Commonwealth too.  Many were abused and treated as slave labor.  And indeed not so long ago - my generation.   

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/apr/02/britain-child-migrants-australia-commonwealth

And there is a film:  Oranges and Sunshine as well as a BBC documentary.

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singsingsing

We did have Home Children sent to Canada, but most of our "orphans" were the home grown variety - children of unwed mothers, taken by the Catholic Church. Some of the orphanages would technically give the mothers the choice to keep their babies, but you can probably imagine how much 'choice' was actually involved. The stigma was enormous, there was no social support provided whatsoever if the mother wanted to keep her baby, and usually her family wanted absolutely nothing to do with it. So the babies were taken and if they were lucky they were adopted by 'respectable' people. If they were unlucky they became Duplessis Orphans.

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Palimpsest
2 minutes ago, nolongerIFBx said:

Jana did say that she wanted to be a midwife in very early specials.

 Don't bother to look it up.  They had all that crap about future careers on the old Duggar website too.  It was an early special - and Jana said that, or a doula, at the same time Jessa wanted to be a beautician,  and Josh was going to be a lawyer.  The girls all parroted the few standard "careers" permitted by Gothardism for young ladies. 

Good grief, Jana may actually have changed her mind since then!  She was about 15 at the time.  

Unlike Jill, I never thought Jana was particularly devoted to the idea of being a midwife.  And if she is, why didn't she take the written test like Jill, or show any signs of finishing the training with someone else and getting certified.

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Palimpsest
11 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

The stigma was enormous, there was no social support provided whatsoever if the mother wanted to keep her baby, and usually her family wanted absolutely nothing to do with it. So the babies were taken and if they were lucky they were adopted by 'respectable' people.

Yes.  As a member of the Baby Scoop generation, and a person who was adopted myself, I am all too well aware of the practices and shaming of unwed mothers in those days.  And the secrecy that surrounded adoption and the lack of adoptee rights.  

Different times.  My adoptive parents, missionaries on furlough, put in an order for a "healthy blue eyed baby girl of good heritage" and 6 weeks later took me home.  I was one of the lucky ones.

Although I do have my original birth certificate today, I have never been able to find my birth mother.  It is a no brainer though.  She was unmarried - no father's name - and was probably deeply traumatised.  

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Bad Wolf

Lion, A Long Way Home, was a good book. They did try to find his parents, but he was so young, and his speech unclear, that they couldnt. Philomena was another one, and also Sunshine and Oranges. Sometimes we haven't come very far.

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HermioneSparrow
3 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

@Palimpsest Who is the rage inducing woman you mentioned in the last thread? Ugh, ever since learning about the truth behind orphanages from Lumos (J.K. Rowling's non-profit) hearing about voluntourists at orphanages makes me ragey. Child trafficking, termination of parental rights without parental knowledge....horrible stuff. And these types of people keep that "industry" going.

If Jenelle Evans of Teen Mom 2 fame can get her medical assistants degree, anyone can. That said, she's not using it and I don't know if she even tried. I can't imagine a doctor's office or hospital hiring someone with a long rap sheet and history of drug abuse...

Juhnelle failed her certification exam and never tried again, I think she would have to redo school, correct me if I'm wrong. You're right though, if Jenelle did it Jilly Muffin can.

 

P.S. I WANNA KNOW ABOUT LUMOS!

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singsingsing
1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Yes.  As a member of the Baby Scoop generation, and a person who was adopted myself, I am all too well aware of the practices and shaming of unwed mothers in those days.  And the secrecy that surrounded adoption and the lack of adoptee rights.  

Different times.  My adoptive parents, missionaries on furlough, put in an order for a "healthy blue eyed baby girl of good heritage" and 6 weeks later took me home.  I was one of the lucky ones.

Although I do have my original birth certificate today, I have never been able to find my birth mother.  It is a no brainer though.  She was unmarried - no father's name - and was probably deeply traumatised.  

Funny how similar so many of the stories are. My grandpa was (is, I mean, he's still living) an adoptee in Quebec. His adoptive mother was told that she couldn't/shouldn't have any more children, so she travelled halfway across the province to visit an orphanage and look into adopting. There she saw my grandpa and thought he was the cutest little boy ever. They told her he wasn't available for adoption 'yet' but he might be soon.

A few years ago when we finally got his 'non-identifying information', we learned more of the story. The orphanage essentially forced his biological mother's hand. She'd been asking them to keep him there for the past three years, saying she was going to take him as soon as she got married/found work/could move/etc. I think when Grandpa's adoptive mother showed up, they contacted his biological mother and said, "Look, someone wants to adopt your son. Take him now or tough luck, we're adopting him out." So she came and took him. And had him with her for all of two weeks. She couldn't support him, and she had to bring him back. And that was that.

When my grandpa was attempting to get a birth certificate a decade or so ago, he was informed by the Quebec government that he did not exist.

I did eventually end up finding the identities of both of his birth parents, but it took years of relentless detective work and a strong dose of luck. Most aren't so lucky. Most don't even know that they can ask for non-identifying information that might provide clues to their origins, or at least more info than they have.

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