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Mass shootings and gun violence are happening way too often


fraurosena

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Did he buy the guns or did he make them? How do you make a gun? This is, from what I read, an issue of mental illness. Are the days of involuntary commitment gone? Because this guy needed to be locked up. All the signs were there that he was going to do this.

I'm all in for more control of guns but we have seen again and again in the last few months that people need to be screaming loud and long about the dangerous nut job in town. More than one call on you for a violent altercation and the police are coming in and searching your home on a regular basis.

Good job on the part of the school, though. This is the way you protect school children. A heads-up attitude and practice so you know how to respond quickly.

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20 minutes ago, GrumpyGran said:

(snip)

How do you make a gun?

(snip)

3-D printer. It won't be good for more than one shot, but according to the nerds I hang out with, you get one good shot.

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3 hours ago, GrumpyGran said:

This is the way you protect school children. A heads-up attitude and practice so you know how to respond quickly.

My kids have drills for lockdowns like this one. My first grader was explaining how they hide where "a bad guy" can't see them through a window. I was both relieved and horrified to hear about it. I wish it weren't necessary, but I'm glad the school is being realistic.

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3 hours ago, GrumpyGran said:

Are the days of involuntary commitment gone? Because this guy needed to be locked up. All the signs were there that he was going to do this.

Kind of. You can still get involuntarily committed for a few days, but it is very difficult to get someone in a long-term facility even if they badly need it. People usually point to Reagan's policies as the reason for this. It's complicated and the era of institutionalization wasn't good either.

Even more than violent people who don't need to be out in public, there are a lot of non-violent severely mentally ill people who can't live alone and end up homeless because there are no longer many options for such people.

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It might take another mother with the strength, courage, and determination of Emmett Till's mother to act as the final catalyst. Should my son ever become a fatality of a mass shooting (please, God, no, I beg you), I would try to make sure to let the world see what our horrifying problem with guns had done to my baby.

Just like Emmett and his mom, nothing like that should have to happen to make change. I hope this wasn't disrespectful to his memory. :/ His story has always made me want to cry, but his mother helped the Civil Right's movement gain momentum (among numerous other, equally important events, of course.)

Keeping my fingers crossed that no one else will have to needlessly die before the switch to blue in '19 (fingers and toes crossed on that one!)

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1 hour ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

My kids have drills for lockdowns like this one. My first grader was explaining how they hide where "a bad guy" can't see them through a window. I was both relieved and horrified to hear about it. I wish it weren't necessary, but I'm glad the school is being realistic.

I am glad schools are being realistic as well. I know parents that refuse to allow their kids to partake in these drills. I cannot even comprehend pulling my kids. I also cringe when I hear of schools using dated drills.

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1 hour ago, Rachel333 said:

Kind of. You can still get involuntarily committed for a few days, but it is very difficult to get someone in a long-term facility even if they badly need it. People usually point to Reagan's policies as the reason for this. It's complicated and the era of institutionalization wasn't good either.

Even more than violent people who don't need to be out in public, there are a lot of non-violent severely mentally ill people who can't live alone and end up homeless because there are no longer many options for such people.

A state senator here in Virginia was seriously injured (stabbed) by his son, who was mentally ill. A judge had issued an involuntary commitment order several days earlier, but there were no beds available, so he was free. Following the stabbing, the son shot and killed himself. This occurred in the family home. Nobody else was injured, but it could have been so much worse.

As far as the Reagan policies, a political cartoon from that era has always stuck in my mind. The first frame shows a person laying in a bed in a mental hospital, curled in a fetal position and shaking. The second frame shows the same person in the same position, laying on a grate on a sidewalk. Just thinking about it makes me sad and angry.

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2 hours ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

I am glad schools are being realistic as well. I know parents that refuse to allow their kids to partake in these drills. I cannot even comprehend pulling my kids. I also cringe when I hear of schools using dated drills.

We did lock down drills in high school about 12 years ago. Even had a real one once. But I was in an indoor class room on the 3rd floor :). It ended up being an armed robber trying to rob the gas station, but still. Very important. Heck, we take our tornado drills very seriously as well. Was taking school pics and the room I was in was a designated shelter, th pre-k came for their T drill. They were kinda nervous, not sure I felt it was real. The teachers assured them everything would be alright and that it was just a drill. It's good for them to get used to drills, even at a young age. That way if it's the real deal, it won't feel so foreign and scary.

I haven't been in many schools where lockdown and building security wasn't a priority. Except that one middle school in a veeeeeeery small town that left a side door unlocked for me. All day. If it can happen in a small town in TX.....

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Not sure if it was real* NOT "Not sure I felt was real"..... i reaaaaaally hate apple autocorrect. Also I type too fast for this thing to catch up.

Aghhhhh.

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I mean... uhm... yeah. Irony, much?

Husband and wife accidentally shot in church meeting about gun safety

Quote

A man accidentally shot himself and his wife during a meeting about gun safety at a Tennessee church.

The couple, who are in their 80s, were discussing gun protection at a social meeting held at the First United Methodist Church in Tellico Plains when the incident occurred.

“Well, I’ve got my gun on me,” said the 81-year-old man, police say, before he pulled out his 380-calibre Ruger handgun and removed the magazine.

He put the magazine back in and put the gun away, but forgot it was loaded when a person later asked to see it.

The military veteran then pulled the trigger, with the bullet slicing his palm and penetrating his wife’s abdomen and exiting her right side.

Both were treated at hospital for non-life-threatening injuries and are reported to be in a stable condition.

“We were talking about concealed carry and protecting ourselves,” witness Ray Zillick told WATE.

Tellico Plains Police Department told residents: “It was not an active shooter situation. It was an accidentally discharged handgun.

“No other people were harmed in this accident. The schools were placed in a temporary lockdown for the students safety. This lockdown was lifted as soon as we cleared the scene.”

Police Chief Russ Parks told ABC News: “This was an accident. It was not intentional.

“It just slipped his mind that he recharged the weapon.”

The gun safety meeting was held in the wake of the Sutherland Springs mass shooting in Texas, in which 26 people were killed.

Police Chief Russ Parks told ABC News: “This was an accident. It was not intentional. “It just slipped his mind that he recharged the weapon.”

Yeah, way to downplay the situation. Don't dismiss it with 'It just slipped his mind". When the possibility exists of something that dangerous slipping your mind, it should be flagged for what it is, a seriously dangerous and potentially life threatening situation. :annoyed:

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On 11/18/2017 at 7:14 AM, fraurosena said:

I mean... uhm... yeah. Irony, much?

Husband and wife accidentally shot in church meeting about gun safety

Police Chief Russ Parks told ABC News: “This was an accident. It was not intentional. “It just slipped his mind that he recharged the weapon.”

Yeah, way to downplay the situation. Don't dismiss it with 'It just slipped his mind". When the possibility exists of something that dangerous slipping your mind, it should be flagged for what it is, a seriously dangerous and potentially life threatening situation. :annoyed:

Yeah, we're not going to make an openly anti-gun statement but you can bet this old fool will not be bringing his gun to church again. His children have probably convinced him that he needs to let it go, so he doesn't shoot their mother again. Probably a big pain in the ass for them because dumb old dad can't take care of her while she recovers from her gunshot wound. So now they are all on the hook to do it.

And I'm sure the leadership of the church realizes that people will find another church if he keeps showing up and stupid/accidently shooting people.

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This whole topic breaks my heart.

And it's another one of those for which I want to say to all the FJers who are not from the US: Not all Americans are like that.

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I'm gobsmacked by this WaPo article: Which domestic abusers will go on to commit murder? This one act offers a clue.  Many mass killers have tragically similar histories.  Hint:  It's strangulation (choking), in the context of domestic violence, and many mass murderers have this in common. 

Strangulation inhabits a category all its own in domestic violence as a marker of lethality. A kick, a punch, a slap, a bite — none of these, though terrible, portend homicide like strangulation does. And while the link between mass shooters and domestic violence is increasingly recognized in the public arena, articles and op-eds, strangulation as a specific sign of lethality in the context of domestic violence remains largely unknown.

and this

Gael Strack, chief executive of the Training Institute on Strangulation Prevention in San Diego, says the mere presence of strangulation in a situation of domestic abuse increases the chances of homicide sevenfold. It is a clear trajectory from escalating violence to homicide, of which strangulation is the penultimate act. “Statistically, we know that once the hands are on the neck, the very next step is homicide,” Strack said. “They don’t go backwards.”

And yes, Devin Patrick Kelly strangled his wife. 

Spoiler

 

In 2012, while stationed at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Devin Patrick Kelley assaulted his wife and stepson. Kelley was subsequently convicted of domestic violence and released early from the Air Force.

One important detail of the attack: In addition to fracturing the child’s skull and hitting and kicking his wife, Kelley strangled her. If the particular severity of his violence had been better understood and recognized in New Mexico, 26 people, including a 17-month-old baby named Noah, might not have been killed in Sutherland Springs, Tex., this month.

Strangulation inhabits a category all its own in domestic violence as a marker of lethality. A kick, a punch, a slap, a bite — none of these, though terrible, portend homicide like strangulation does. And while the link between mass shooters and domestic violence is increasingly recognized in the public arena, articles and op-eds, strangulation as a specific sign of lethality in the context of domestic violence remains largely unknown.

The U.S. Sentencing Commission recognized strangulation as a marker of dangerousness in a 2014 report and recommended increased prison time — up to 10 years — for those convicted of it. Indeed, 45 states now recognize strangulation as a felony. New Mexico, where Kelley was convicted, is not one of them.

Kelley, as we know now, served just one year for the assault on his wife and stepchild, after which he was discharged from the Air Force for “bad conduct.”

Bad conduct is going 80 in a 55 mph zone. Bad conduct is cutting down your neighbor’s azaleas or flirting with your colleague’s wife. Bad conduct is not engaging in an act so violent that it could take the life of another human being.

Omar Mateen , the Orlando Pulse nightclub shooter, had also choked both his wives and was never charged, let alone prosecuted. He and Kelley should not have had access to guns, true enough, but more to the point, they should have been behind bars.

The list goes on. Take Cedric Ford , who in 2016 fatally shot three of his co-workers and injured 14 others in Kansas, but prior to that was charged only with misdemeanor domestic violence for choking his ex. Then there’s Esteban Santiago. He killed five and injured six in a shooting at the Fort Lauderdale Airport early this year. He, too, had been charged with a misdemeanor after strangling his ex. (Kevin Neal, who killed his wife and four other people in Northern California this past week, had a history of domestic violence, though it’s not clear if that included strangulation.)

Gael Strack, chief executive of the Training Institute on Strangulation Prevention in San Diego, says the mere presence of strangulation in a situation of domestic abuse increases the chances of homicide sevenfold. It is a clear trajectory from escalating violence to homicide, of which strangulation is the penultimate act. “Statistically, we know that once the hands are on the neck, the very next step is homicide,” Strack said. “They don’t go backwards.”

Casey Gwinn, president of the Alliance for Hope International and a co-founder of the Training Institute for Strangulation Prevention along with Strack, wrote in an email to me that Kelley “was a rage-filled domestic violence strangler and child abuser who had left every possible lethality marker for a mass shooter we know of in plain sight.”

Yet strangulation, as a signal of dangerousness, is not only overlooked by most law enforcement officers and prosecutors, it’s not always recognized by health-care workers. Symptoms can appear days or months afterward. Victims are regularly released from emergency rooms without undergoing CT scans or MRIs. Most strangulation injuries are not visible enough to photograph, and police often don’t know to look for other signs — including urination, slurred speech, redness around the eyes or scalp, a hoarse voice or trouble swallowing . As a result, injuries are played down in police reports and commonly noted as mere scratches or redness around the neck, according to a study by Strack of 300 nonfatal strangulation cases. Many victims have poor recall of events — often a result of loss of consciousness from the strangulation. In fact, a person can be strangled in less than 12 seconds and never stop breathing.

It wasn’t that Kelley operated under the radar; it was that authorities failed to see and then act on the clues he was leaving.

So, while we’re offering up theories as to Kelley’s motives — he was an atheist, he was a liberal, he was mentally ill, he was a loner, he was a weirdo — we can also consider this single fact: He was a strangler.

He was a strangler whose violent act was described as “choking” in the report on his 2012 assault. Law enforcement officers may not have known about strangulation as a marker of dangerousness the night they were called to his home. Or they may not have known how to look for the signs of strangulation. Perhaps they had never been trained. Perhaps they dismissed the call as just another “domestic” in a long string of frustrating domestics.

Whatever happened that night, because Kelley was not charged with nonfatal strangulation as a felony, he was not prosecuted accordingly. And because he was not prosecuted accordingly, he was not sentenced to the 10 years he could and should have gotten in prison, where he would remain today. And because he was not in prison, he was out in the world with the rest of us: a dangerous man, legally free and simmering.

 

 

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An idiot hunter killed a woman who was walking her dogs after sunset, cos she totally looked like a deer ya know.

Maybe, just maybe, if you can't distinguish a deer from a woman you shouldn't hunt and maybe, just maybe, if you can't correctly evaluate danger you shouldn't own a gun.

The guy hasn't been charged yet, because he just made a mistake, why ruin this good-white-guy-who-made-a-mistake life?

Spoiler

Rosemary Billquist, 43, got home from work about 5 p.m., and left shortly after to walk the couple’s dogs, Stella and Sugar, near the field behind their Sherman, N.Y., house. Jamie Billquist, 47, stayed at home, watching television.

A little while later, the dogs came racing to the back of the house, barking loudly. Jamie Billquist panicked. He called Rosemary’s cellphone, but she didn’t pick up.

“I thought, ‘Something might’ve happened to Rosemary,’ ” he said. “Maybe she fell.”

As he put his phone down, ambulances showed up outside the house. An EMT who is a friend of Jamie Billquist’s rushed to the field, saying someone had been shot.

Moments later, he learned that it was his wife.

A neighbor, Thomas B. Jadlowski, thought he saw a deer in his back yard 200 yards away and fired a single shot. Then he heard a scream. Realizing he’d shot a person, he ran out to help, Chautauqua County Sheriff’s Office officials said in a news release.

Jadlowski, 34, called 911 and applied pressure to Rosemary Billquist’s wound until paramedics arrived, according to the sheriff’s office. The bullet had traveled through her hip and out her back, Jamie Billquist said. He rode with his wife to a University of Pittsburgh Medical Center facility in Erie, Pa., where she was pronounced dead.

“That’s it,” Billquist said with a heavy sigh. “My life has changed. Things are never going to be the same.”

Jadlowski has not been charged and has been cooperating with investigators, officials said. The case will be reviewed by the Chautauqua County district attorney’s office, which will determine whether Jadlowski will face criminal charges. Officials said the shooting occurred less than an hour after sunset, at a time when it’s illegal to hunt, according to the Associated Press.

Jamie Billquist still has many questions about the shooting.

“I’m not a hunter, but the law is that [after sunset] is when you’re supposed to be done,” Billquist said. “Supposedly it was 200 yards away. He thought it was a deer, which is hard for me to believe. If you don’t know what it is, why shoot?”

 

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5 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

An idiot hunter killed a woman who was walking her dogs after sunset, cos she totally looked like a deer ya know.

Maybe, just maybe, if you can't distinguish a deer from a woman you shouldn't hunt and maybe, just maybe, if you can't correctly evaluate danger you shouldn't own a gun.

The guy hasn't been charged yet, because he just made a mistake, why ruin this good-white-guy-who-made-a-mistake life?

In addition to hunting after hours, it also sounds like he was firing too close to homes (you can't be within 500 feet). I also question that he was hunting with a pistol instead of a rifle but apparently that's legal in New York.

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5 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

An idiot hunter killed a woman who was walking her dogs after sunset, cos she totally looked like a deer ya know.

Maybe, just maybe, if you can't distinguish a deer from a woman you shouldn't hunt and maybe, just maybe, if you can't correctly evaluate danger you shouldn't own a gun.

The guy hasn't been charged yet, because he just made a mistake, why ruin this good-white-guy-who-made-a-mistake life?

  Reveal hidden contents

Rosemary Billquist, 43, got home from work about 5 p.m., and left shortly after to walk the couple’s dogs, Stella and Sugar, near the field behind their Sherman, N.Y., house. Jamie Billquist, 47, stayed at home, watching television.

A little while later, the dogs came racing to the back of the house, barking loudly. Jamie Billquist panicked. He called Rosemary’s cellphone, but she didn’t pick up.

“I thought, ‘Something might’ve happened to Rosemary,’ ” he said. “Maybe she fell.”

As he put his phone down, ambulances showed up outside the house. An EMT who is a friend of Jamie Billquist’s rushed to the field, saying someone had been shot.

Moments later, he learned that it was his wife.

A neighbor, Thomas B. Jadlowski, thought he saw a deer in his back yard 200 yards away and fired a single shot. Then he heard a scream. Realizing he’d shot a person, he ran out to help, Chautauqua County Sheriff’s Office officials said in a news release.

Jadlowski, 34, called 911 and applied pressure to Rosemary Billquist’s wound until paramedics arrived, according to the sheriff’s office. The bullet had traveled through her hip and out her back, Jamie Billquist said. He rode with his wife to a University of Pittsburgh Medical Center facility in Erie, Pa., where she was pronounced dead.

“That’s it,” Billquist said with a heavy sigh. “My life has changed. Things are never going to be the same.”

Jadlowski has not been charged and has been cooperating with investigators, officials said. The case will be reviewed by the Chautauqua County district attorney’s office, which will determine whether Jadlowski will face criminal charges. Officials said the shooting occurred less than an hour after sunset, at a time when it’s illegal to hunt, according to the Associated Press.

Jamie Billquist still has many questions about the shooting.

“I’m not a hunter, but the law is that [after sunset] is when you’re supposed to be done,” Billquist said. “Supposedly it was 200 yards away. He thought it was a deer, which is hard for me to believe. If you don’t know what it is, why shoot?”

 

*sigh* Another day, another gun death. Heaven forbid that we should tell this "man" that he can't go looking for deer in a populated area. Yes, he was at the least ignoring all sorts of safe firearms practices. I kind of wonder if there isn't something more to this. He could not possibly have actually had a good view of her so he is wandering around just shooting at anything that moves? Did he know that there were homes in the area? Did he care?

As you are not from here @laPapessaGiovanna, you may not be aware, but in this country people sue other people all the time when there is a car accident and someone is killed or injured. Ads for accident and injury lawyers are all over the TV. But should this woman's husband decide to sue this fool, the NRA will come rushing in to defend him, screaming "Accident, accident, he didn't mean to kill her, it's his right to hunt!" Try to claim it was just an accident when you run a red light and kill someone in another car and see if you get to just walk away with an apology.

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Something else doesn't add up- Both of their addresses are included in the police report and I googled it to get an idea of the area (it is pretty rural). Based on this Buffalo News article he was in his backyard when he shot her 200 yards away, which was about 100 yards from her house but according to Google the houses are 2.9 miles apart with an interstate in between. It's closer in a straight line but still... Maybe I'm being paranoid but I'm starting to think we aren't getting the whole story here.

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25 minutes ago, Bethella said:

Something else doesn't add up- Both of their addresses are included in the police report and I googled it to get an idea of the area (it is pretty rural). Based on this Buffalo News article he was in his backyard when he shot her 200 yards away, which was about 100 yards from her house but according to Google the houses are 2.9 miles apart with an interstate in between. It's closer in a straight line but still... Maybe I'm being paranoid but I'm starting to think we aren't getting the whole story here.

The thing that I am confused about, and I don't know guns, is that the bullet from this pistol traveled 200 yards without hitting anything. Is it just an open field with an interstate running through it? And if he was in his backyard, this wasn't a hunting trip.

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18 minutes ago, GrumpyGran said:

The thing that I am confused about, and I don't know guns, is that the bullet from this pistol traveled 200 yards without hitting anything. Is it just an open field with an interstate running through it? And if was in his backyard, this wasn't a hunting trip.

My FIL hunts in his backyard and allows family to hunt on his property. He lives in the country and has a large property. I could never see anyone that hunts there just shooting at anything that moves and adults are informed before anyone starts hunting so no one goes for a walk in the woods. They hunted on Thanksgiving. The children were informed where it was to safe to play outside and monitored by adults. 

This story does not add up and makes me quite angry.

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2 minutes ago, GrumpyGran said:

The thing that I am confused about, and I don't know guns, is that the bullet from this pistol traveled 200 yards without hitting anything. Is it just an open field with an interstate running through it? And if was in his backyard, this wasn't a hunting trip.

A 200 yard shot isn't that uncommon, although I would have expected him to have made it with a rifle instead of a pistol (better sighting but obviously that doesn't apply in this case if he didn't know what he was shooting at). At first I was wondering if he had shot at one of the dogs (which look a lot more like a deer than a person) and he missed, hitting her. But based on the aerial views, there are fields and woods between the two houses. Unless Google and Mapquest have the houses/streets misidenitified, I just don't see how things could have happened the way they're described in the police log and news articles. To be perfectly honest I'm not going to be surprised if we find out that this wasn't really an accident.

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5 minutes ago, Bethella said:

A 200 yard shot isn't that uncommon, although I would have expected him to have made it with a rifle instead of a pistol (better sighting but obviously that doesn't apply in this case if he didn't know what he was shooting at). At first I was wondering if he had shot at one of the dogs (which look a lot more like a deer than a person) and he missed, hitting her. But based on the aerial views, there are fields and woods between the two houses. Unless Google and Mapquest have the houses/streets misidenitified, I just don't see how things could have happened the way they're described in the police log and news articles. To be perfectly honest I'm not going to be surprised if we find out that this wasn't really an accident.

That was my thought, too. Tragic accidents happen every day but it seems that if he was shooting from his yard he would be aware of where there are homes. Okay, so was she walking from her home toward him and he just didn't think that anyone would be where she was? That seems like a rather dangerous assumption. Was she on private land? Had she never been there before?

I worry about this, we have a new neighborhood going in right next to ours and some of my neighbors were remarking that they had heard gunshots a few nights ago. The land for the new neighborhood has been cleared so the sound from the woods on the other side of the clearing is amplified now. But how does someone hunting know which way to NOT aim? Is every hunter a perfect shot? This wooded area is surrounded by homes on all sides.

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1 hour ago, GrumpyGran said:

it seems that if he was shooting from his yard he would be aware of where there are homes. Okay, so was she walking from her home toward him and he just didn't think that anyone would be where she was? That seems like a rather dangerous assumption. Was she on private land? Had she never been there before?

In the Buffalo New article, the ambulance is described as pulling into the driveway of her house. She is described as being 100 yards away in a field behind the house. Here's the map of the area. (*the addresses are listed on the police blog here) Based on this layout I just don't see how the reported version of events is possible. 

shooting.thumb.png.ab4c3a1c3088a3dd8ec5195749c19133.png

1 hour ago, GrumpyGran said:

But how does someone hunting know which way to NOT aim? Is every hunter a perfect shot? This wooded area is surrounded by homes on all sides.

No, not every hunter is a perfect shot. But it is the hunter's responsibility to know what is in the direction they're shooting. I come from a hunting family (although I choose to stay at camp and cook for everyone instead of sitting outside in the cold). We have a map showing our land and the adjoining neighbor's lots including all the buildings. All the tree stands are marked including firing lanes (areas that have been cleared a bit so you can get a good shot). We make note of where people will be that day and the hunters know which directions they can safely shoot in. They know to make sure what they are shooting at (not just for safety but also making sure it's a legal buck- no doe hunting in our area) and not to shoot in the direction of the house or other hunters. Not only does this system help prevent accidents like this but it's also useful if someone doesn't come back on time so we know were to start searching.

That being said, even our non-hunters take precautions. Even if we're staying in the yard or just going to the outhouse we still wear hunter's orange, even the dogs have orange vests. 

orange.jpg.1bb7e2ed34b9a343c20408fbb62f1c28.jpg

If the wooded area in your neighborhood is surrounded by homes on all sides, it probably isn't safe to be hunting there, although it would depend on how big the area is and how close the houses are to the woods.

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18 hours ago, Bethella said:

Based on this layout I just don't see how the reported version of events is possible. 

Something is wrong here. You are right, @Bethella, this does not seem possible. I can't believe he heard her scream. I can't believe he could see her or anything else at that distance. The thing that makes all this unbelievable to me is that that bullet had to travel over or through an interstate highway exchange. With off and on ramps. Unless he was considerably to the right of his address. Then it still had to cross a four-lane highway and another road. Who fires a  gun in the direction of a four-lane highway? And he was close to that road. Yeah, I don't think this story holds together.

As for my neighborhood, there is a big discussion in our county now about people hunting and possibly restricting where it can happen. It is a big county but with the exception of a few areas there are houses almost everywhere. The development is happening pretty fast, especially in my part of the county so I think that people who have hunted all their lives are sometimes unaware that there are now houses just on the other side of the line of trees on the edge of their property.

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I see from sheriff.us, there was a hunting incident on the 23rd as well, where a man fired at a brown pick-up truck he mistook for a deer.

How can you confuse a deer and a truck????

And then there's this: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/11/25/black-friday-posts-new-single-day-record-gun-checks-more-than-200-000/894706001/

The comments were... concerning. I'm confused as to why Americans are so convinced they need to be armed in case of a government takeover. That doesn't seem to be a concern in most other countries....

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