Your Wig Isn't Modest Enough

[GeoBQn]

Someone created an image that has gone viral and it is greatly upsetting my Orthodox friends.

Some background:  Orthodox Jewish women are expected to cover their hair after marriage.  Head coverings tend to fall into two categories:

Tichel--A scarf, hat, or turban

Sheitel--A wig

The style of a woman's head covering and how much hair they allow to show varies depending on a combination of personal choice and what branch of Orthodoxy a woman belongs to.  The image that is causing outrage is a collage that someone created out of Instagram pictures of women wearing sheitels.  Specifically, all of the women are wearing wigs that have the appearance of long, flowing hair.  Underneath the collage is a rant about how these women look like sluts and prostitutes, and they are bringing shame on their people.  (I am not linking to the image because the images are used without the women's consent, and their faces are not blurred out.)

My friends are outraged at the idea that women are being judged about this. They object to the idea of modesty being entirely about dress codes.  Now that their kids are approaching school age, they are finding that people are making assumptions about where they will send their kids to school based on their style of head covering.  They don't want their character to be judged by their attire.  They consider their choice of head coverings to be theirs alone. 

[nastyhobbitses]

Disclaimer: Reform Jew here. I don't know if this is common in other religious fundamentalist/devoutly religious communities, but it seems that in a lot of those sorts of Jewish communities, there's this sort of constant more-modest/devout-than-thou, goalpost-moving, "look how much more strictly I follow the rules!" stuff going on. This thing is a great example, as well as the story about a disabled Israeli Jewish girl who got harassed near constantly by Haredi men and boys who decided that she was some kind of blasphemer for using an electric wheelchair on the Sabbath (she even had a special permission from her Rabbi to use it). I find it pretty ridiculous, honestly. Sometimes it seems like some people care more about showing how strictly they can follow a particular interpretation of rules (and judge and berate others for not doing the same) than about following the actual philosophical and religious teachings of Judaism.

[Bretta]

If I'm not mistaken, in some groups like Chabad a sheitel is preferable as it allows for more public engagement and interaction?

[CancerBomb]

I think God has more important things to do than think "Hmmmmmm her wig is too long! PROSTITUTE!" And in society, these days, dress code seems to determine character. When I have short hair I am treated differently than when I have long hair, likewise when I'm in conservative vs flashier clothing. Unfortunately, it's a reality of life. I say you and your kids do whatever you want with your hair as it is your hair. Tie it up, wear a wig, shave it, dye it purple, whatever totes your goats.

[AlwaysExcited]

@CancerBomb The combination of your comment and avatar is priceless. 

[ven]

Ofcourse only wearing a shpitzel counts as  the " real" modest look 

[MamaJunebug]

4 hours ago, ven said:

Ofcourse only wearing a shpitzel counts as  the " real" modest look 

Had to look that up and egads! Back in the 1960s I had a shikse shpitzel: platinum blonde bangs attached to a triangular head scarf !!

Sadly, the bangs stuck out from my forehead at a 45* angle so I only wore it once. But who knew this was a real thing??

@nastyhobbitses, several of my favorite people are Reform Jews and honestly, there is as much joy in life among them, if not more, than among my friends along all points of the spiritual spectrum.  I’ve found myself adopting some of their attitudes, and now have begun to feel much less aggravated by the patriarchalists around me — and instead, to feel much sadness for them in their legalistic, scrabbling worlds. 

Would that everybody could understand the joys of living....and the pointlessness of rejecting joy. 

[nastyhobbitses]

14 hours ago, ven said:

Ofcourse only wearing a shpitzel counts as  the " real" modest look 

Nah, wear a burqa. No, seriously, there's a sect of Haredi women who do.

[Cleopatra7]

1 hour ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Nah, wear a burqa. No, seriously, there's a sect of Haredi women who do.

The woman who started the Haredi burqa sect was convicted of abuse and incest a couple of years back:

http://m.spiegel.de/international/world/a-808252.html

(Part One)

http://m.spiegel.de/international/world/a-808252-2.html

(Part Two)

”It started with a coat, and then there were three. Then she added trousers and a skirt on top. In the end there were 10 skirts, 10 coats and gloves," says her son, who chooses not to reveal his name. "Eight years ago, she covered her face with a veil, first outside and then at home, and finally she was even wearing it in the shower. I haven't seen her face since then. She set up a tent in the bathroom, so that even the walls couldn't see her naked." Keren also stopped speaking, only communicating with gestures or writing.

While his mother became more and more chaste, the son was having sex with his sister in the next room. He was 15 and she was 12.

It was a broken life, says the son, who is now 30 and still hardly dares to go out in public.”

(Quote from second link)

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

A very thought provoking article.  I see so many parallels between the ultra-orthodox movement and the "exteme modesty, SAHD/SAHM, girls don't need education, we must be completely separate from the world, must have more bay-beezz babies for Jesus, we are right and everyone else are sinners" fundies.

[ven]

4 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

A very thought provoking article.  I see so many parallels between the ultra-orthodox movement and the "exteme modesty, SAHD/SAHM, girls don't need education, we must be completely separate from the world, must have more bay-beezz babies for Jesus, we are right and everyone else are sinners" fundies.

Well ,dressing distinct from mainstream folk is kind of the trademark of many ( if not all) religions . Everyone thinks that their way is best ofcourse . From the Shaolin monk to the cilicium martyrdom going on in opus dei and various catholic monasteries. People will always and forever want to be visually part of a group . ( So do the bikers and emo's etc ) 

[Briefly]

7 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

The woman who started the Haredi burqa sect was convicted of abuse and incest a couple of years back:

http://m.spiegel.de/international/world/a-808252.html

(Part One)

http://m.spiegel.de/international/world/a-808252-2.html

(Part Two)

”It started with a coat, and then there were three. Then she added trousers and a skirt on top. In the end there were 10 skirts, 10 coats and gloves," says her son, who chooses not to reveal his name. "Eight years ago, she covered her face with a veil, first outside and then at home, and finally she was even wearing it in the shower. I haven't seen her face since then. She set up a tent in the bathroom, so that even the walls couldn't see her naked." Keren also stopped speaking, only communicating with gestures or writing.

While his mother became more and more chaste, the son was having sex with his sister in the next room. He was 15 and she was 12.

It was a broken life, says the son, who is now 30 and still hardly dares to go out in public.”

(Quote from second link)

That sounds like mom was mentally ill.  I feel so sorry for those two kids of hers, even as adults it sounds like they have some really bad stuff to deal with.

[nastyhobbitses]

12 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

The woman who started the Haredi burqa sect was convicted of abuse and incest a couple of years back:

http://m.spiegel.de/international/world/a-808252.html

(Part One)

http://m.spiegel.de/international/world/a-808252-2.html

(Part Two)

”It started with a coat, and then there were three. Then she added trousers and a skirt on top. In the end there were 10 skirts, 10 coats and gloves," says her son, who chooses not to reveal his name. "Eight years ago, she covered her face with a veil, first outside and then at home, and finally she was even wearing it in the shower. I haven't seen her face since then. She set up a tent in the bathroom, so that even the walls couldn't see her naked." Keren also stopped speaking, only communicating with gestures or writing.

While his mother became more and more chaste, the son was having sex with his sister in the next room. He was 15 and she was 12.

It was a broken life, says the son, who is now 30 and still hardly dares to go out in public.”

(Quote from second link)

At one point is it no longer piety and more likely a case of undiagnosed, untreated, religiously-enabled Obsessive Compulsive Disorder?

[EmiGirl]

Of you have access to Netflix, definitely check out One of Us. Its about young adults leaving Hasidic Judiasm. It was fantastic.

[Granwych]

 Ivanka Trump Kushner is an Orthodox Jew, yet I've never seen pix of her with any sort of head covering.

[Jellybean]

She wore a chapel veil when they met the pope...

[CuttySark]

4 hours ago, Granwych said:

 Ivanka Trump Kushner is an Orthodox Jew, yet I've never seen pix of her with any sort of head covering.

There's a big difference in practice between Orthodox, Modern Orthodox and Haredi / Ultra Orthodox, and a lot of variance between specific communities within the same stream. I grew up Modern Orthodox and my community's minhag (custom) was for married women to cover their heads in synagogue - so when I got married I started wearing a hat to shul.

I live in a different community now and go to a Conservative synagogue (capital-C Conservative, which is actually quite lowercase-l liberal), where the minhag is for everyone to wear some kind of head covering regardless of marital status, and those coverings range from headbands to doilies-n-bobbie pins to quite elaborate Sephardi kippot. And pretty much no-one wears a hat. 

Now, weirdly, googling suggests that the Kushners go to a Chabad synagogue, which should mean full-on head coverings - they're a spin-off sect that really does mandate heavy attention to modesty. But then Jared's not exactly rocking payos and a beard or a tallit katan (the fringed undershirt), so who the heck actually knows what's going on there. It could just be that it's the only Orthodox shul in walking distance from their house.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[PennySycamore]

@Jellybean,  it's the custom for all women and girls to cover their heads, usually with a chapel veil or mantilla, when meeting the Pope.  

[Ozlsn]

On 09/11/2017 at 7:15 AM, PennySycamore said:

@Jellybean,  it's the custom for all women and girls to cover their heads, usually with a chapel veil or mantilla, when meeting the Pope.  

From my only experience of being near the Pontiff they certainly don't enforce that at the school group blessings. Then again, being with a couple of hundred kids while the Pope says about 3 things in Latin at the front of the auditorium (and various cardinals do translations in all the languages required) probably doesn't quite count as "meet" in the same way, no matter what the school described it as. 

I am finding this thread fascinating, not least because I had no idea there was such diversity in head coverings. Also depressing because seriously? The only person whose business it is is the woman wearing the covering, and I had no idea this type of shaming was going on here too. 

[Eponine]

On 11/7/2017 at 7:41 AM, CuttySark said:

Now, weirdly, googling suggests that the Kushners go to a Chabad synagogue, which should mean full-on head coverings - they're a spin-off sect that really does mandate heavy attention to modesty. But then Jared's not exactly rocking payos and a beard or a tallit katan (the fringed undershirt), so who the heck actually knows what's going on there. It could just be that it's the only Orthodox shul in walking distance from their house.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't know where they go in DC, but I'm pretty sure the synagogue they go to (went to?) in NYC is Modern Orthodox. They've given a lot of money to Chabad, though.

About the sheitel controversy - there has been sheitel judgment happening in various types of orthodox communities for a super long time. A while back I came across interviews with women from the 50s or 60s making snarky comments about how this lady's sheitel was too fake looking, that lady's wasn't long enough, etc etc. Apparently the fashion then in this particular community was to purposefully let a little bit of the edge show, just to make sure people knew that you 1) were married and 2) were following the rules. There was way more sheitel drama in there than I expected. (Sorry, I have no citation on this, it was photocopied from some material back in my undergrad days!)

A lot of young Orthodox women attend the university where I work and many of the married ones wear long, styled sheitels and clothing that's not super obviously "different." I'm not surprised that there is some reactionary backlash to dressing this way - making the choice to not stand out brings backlash in all communities that are really invested in "modesty," it seems. Cognitive dissonance, quelle surprise.

[artdecades]

On 11/5/2017 at 7:48 AM, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

A very thought provoking article.  I see so many parallels between the ultra-orthodox movement and the "exteme modesty, SAHD/SAHM, girls don't need education, we must be completely separate from the world, must have more bay-beezz babies for Jesus, we are right and everyone else are sinners" fundies.

ultra orthodox modesty makes fundie modesty look downright scandalous. you wouldn't see many ultra orthodox women showing elbows or wearing open toed shoes

[MarblesMom]

I worked for a company owned by Reformed Jews, but they hired everyone's relatives, which also included the fundie version.

I remember one intern, who was appalled he was invited to lunch with mostly women (in my dept) .... and I remember he brought an approved lunch his mother packed... because he was almost 30 and college educated and still living at home until he found the "one."  Seriously, this kid could barely chew and swallow his food surrounded by us.

It is not just the Christian people who have deep ends of the pool.

[EmiGirl]

19 hours ago, MarblesMom said:

 

It is not just the Christian people who have deep ends of the pool.

Every religion has its whack-a-doodles.

[meee]

19 hours ago, artdecades said:

ultra orthodox modesty makes fundie modesty look downright scandalous. you wouldn't see many ultra orthodox women showing elbows or wearing open toed shoes

Lol yes. Being orthodox Jewish myself, I kind of want to go to the Anderson or Maxwell blog and be like "have you considered how defrauding your elbows are? I never show mine!"

And open toed shoes are fine in some communities, but they wear stockings with them. No flip flops here.

[ven]

I worked within  the ultra orthodox community in antwerp for about 10 + years as a social worker , we are talking satmar , gur, pshevork , vitnitz , belz , bobov etc folk here ..  the ashkenazi basically . They do not even consider " reform jews " as  really jewish . You really need  1000 denier flesh coloured stockings  with seams ! And a shoulder lenght sheital at best . To really fit in . Everyone else including chabad  women with curly wigs are just not up to par . I consider them way way more stict then the christians we talk about here . Mind you  i have grown a deep fondness of these people although i will be the goyta forever ...  i thought about starting a footsteps org here . Because i detected a need . But that does not seem to be easy . On the other hand i do appreciate also what it means to really be a part of a community . Something we lack in secular world . The love my clients got when they lost a baby ( sitting shiva , the ripping of the clothes , the covering of the mirrors) and the endless visits and support you get seemed very comforting in a strange way ... 

Edited November 20, 2017 by ven