Let there be music-NOT

[Bad Wolf]

Derick was teaching James trumpet at one point. Don't know if he continued.

[NewOrleansLady]

9 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I think Gothard has some kind of teaching about piano and violin being “godly instruments,” but don’t quote me on it.

The daughter of a friend plays piano at the Baptist church here.  The church was so impressed with her playing that when the church bought a new piano, they gave her the older one and had it properly tuned at her house.

She is a very good pianist, can read music (Both popular and church ), was homeschooled and is attending college. 

[VVV]

15 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I think Gothard has some kind of teaching about piano and violin being “godly instruments,” but don’t quote me on it.

If that's true, that's hilarious. My very devout great-great-grandmother believed that the violin was the instrument of the devil and had no place in church. Oh to what depths of degradation my family has fallen in only four generations.

[Bad Wolf]

The saxophone is also known as the instrument of the devil, due to its sexy shape and the jazz it plays. Always makes me giggle to myself when Mr. Wolf and I play our saxes in church. (1903 Vatican)

[CorruptionInc.]

13 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

The saxophone is also known as the instrument of the devil, due to its sexy shape and the jazz it plays. Always makes me giggle to myself when Mr. Wolf and I play our saxes in church. (1903 Vatican)

While the Saxophone has a "sexy" sound, I am confused as to why they thought it was the devil's instrument due to it's shapeliness... I used to be a musician (not a Sax player) so I am laughing my head off at this!

[Seahorse Wrangler]

On 10/13/2017 at 12:05 PM, nastyhobbitses said:

When my grandfather died, the first thing I did was get some grocery shopping and financial stuff done. I just had to do normal adult things and be a normal person, because I was thousands of miles away and being a crying mess would be no use. I'm very much a "power through, grit your teeth, fall apart later" person. For better or for worse.

It took me until his memorial service a month and a half later to actually process everything. Then I cried a lot.

After Mr Wrangler died, I had so much to do with sorting out the cremation and telling people during the New Year break. The celebration of life and making sure that our children were fed, clothed and going to school and all the everyday stuff.  It  was about 6 weeks later, watching the hockey and not getting a call after the second period that I realised he was never going to all me again.

 

I cried...a lot.Then I had to go through dealing with the younger two on a daily basis and support the older one in college who was falling apart and I was an hours drive away.

 

You often have to put grieving aside until it's convenient. It doesn't mean it hurts less though.

[nastyhobbitses]

19 minutes ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

After Mr Wrangler died, I had so much to do with sorting out the cremation and telling people during the New Year break. The celebration of life and making sure that our children were fed, clothed and going to school and all the everyday stuff.  It  was about 6 weeks later, watching the hockey and not getting a call after the second period that I realised he was never going to all me again.

 

I cried...a lot.Then I had to go through dealing with the younger two on a daily basis and support the older one in college who was falling apart and I was an hours drive away.

 

You often have to put grieving aside until it's convenient. It doesn't mean it hurts less though.

Made it hurt both less and more. Less because I had time to process and psych up for when I couldn't put it off anymore, and because I was able to compartmentalize it and see for myself that life goes on. More because it was bottled up and it kind of hit me all at once when I came to my grandparents' house and there was one fewer person to hug.

I found that the movie The Tale of Princess Kaguya helped me process things before he died; he had dementia, so I had started grieving long before he actually died, because closer to the end, my grandfather really only came back in quick little flashes. A lot of him was gone by the time he physically died. In the movie The Tale of Princess Kaguya (spoiler alert), the main character is taken away from earth and all she knows and loves by the spirits of the moon, and they give her a magical cloak to make her forget all of her experiences and attachments, while this beautiful, upbeat-and-yet-also-sad music plays. It's a very Buddhist perspective on death - she ascends to the moon free from earthly attachments and desires, but there's this deep, horrible sense of loss. That ending scene helped me view his decline and death as liberation from pain, which was a good and natural thing, even though it was also horribly painful to see that he was forgetting and withdrawing and letting go of his world, and leaving all of us behind. So when he died, I had a little more strength to power through because I knew he was finally free.

[grandmadugger]

On 10/14/2017 at 12:02 AM, VVV said:

You know the only difference between a violin and a fiddle is that nobody minds if you spill beer on their fiddle, right? 

Seriously anyone trained in classical violin technique can learn fiddle tunes though it doesn't work the same in reverse. And thanks to decades of Suzuki, fractional sized violins for children are very easy to find pretty much anywhere. I'm sure there are fractional guitars but I doubt they're as ubiquitous, and I also think that there are fewer guitar teachers specializing in teaching young children.

I play both though my fiddle lacks much prefer a banjo or guitar. Most fiddle players I know wouldn't claim to play violin because they don't play classical music but 95% can play any hymn you can name  

They make student guitars for kids. 

[HarryPotterFan]

On 10/15/2017 at 5:56 AM, Bad Wolf said:

The saxophone is also known as the instrument of the devil, due to its sexy shape and the jazz it plays. Always makes me giggle to myself when Mr. Wolf and I play our saxes in church. (1903 Vatican)

How is the shape of a saxophone sexy? Shouldn't guitars be banned, due to the sexy shape and rock music?

[Knight of Ni]

Cellos are obviously the devil’s instrument because the players do it with their legs spread wide. 

Sorry. I have the humor of a 12 year old. 

[Bad Wolf]

16 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

How is the shape of a saxophone sexy? Shouldn't guitars be banned, due to the sexy shape and rock music?

No idea. I do not understand the thinking of the Vatican. Now, the violin I understand. A screechy  violin played by an untalented child is surely the devil 's music.

[SnazzyNazzy]

16 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

How is the shape of a saxophone sexy? Shouldn't guitars be banned, due to the sexy shape and rock music?

Maybe it's HOW you play the sax. You put your lips around the tip, and blow....

I've seen A LOT of movies where people do that, just not with a saxophone.....

[marmalade]

As a flute player, I got all kinds of shit from guys about what I could do with my mouth. 

#metoo

[NakedKnees]

I always thought that the Gothard and Duggar propensity toward violin, piano, and harp might have something to do with Victorian/turn-of-the-century feminine talents. It's my understanding that parlour skills like those would have been highly desireable among young middle- and upper-class women. I might just be pulling that idea out of my ass though.

There is plenty of amazing Christian-themed classical music that someone could learn on violin or piano. I really wouldn't worry about the lack of Christian repertoire there. In fact, I'd worry about about the non-Christian music available in the fiddle style and guitar areas of music. Not to mention: the beat! The dreaded beat!!!!!11

[metheglyn]

5 hours ago, NakedKnees said:

There is plenty of amazing Christian-themed classical music that someone could learn on violin or piano. I really wouldn't worry about the lack of Christian repertoire there. In fact, I'd worry about about the non-Christian music available in the fiddle style and guitar areas of music. Not to mention: the beat! The dreaded beat!!!!!11

And yet, almost everything we hear from them is pretty limited, especially the stuff they sing. No real harmonies, none of the classic Christian repertoire. I'm Episcopalian and in the church choir, and we sing a lot of that repertoire, including in Latin and older English, as well as contemporary English. Some of it's a capella, some uses with organ accompaniment, and sometimes there are  other instruments. I guess the fact that a lot of this music is catholic, early protestant, or just generally not Baptist means they don't sing any of it? They're missing out on so much of the *good* religious music (ex. Bach, Handel, even the almost schmaltzy Victorian stuff), at least from what little we hear from them. It just strikes me as sad that as religious as they are they seem to be cutting themselves off from even the good stuff in their own religion. But i guess since it doesn't seem to be IBF (or maybe Gothard) approved it's not really considered part of their religious tradition?

[Seahorse Wrangler]

6 hours ago, marmalade said:

As a flute player, I got all kinds of shit from guys about what I could do with my mouth. 

#metoo

sorry....not sorry.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[JillsFlowerHeadband]

11 hours ago, metheglyn said:

They're missing out on so much of the *good* religious music (ex. Bach, Handel, even the almost schmaltzy Victorian stuff), at least from what little we hear from them

Wow, I had no idea that Bach wasn’t on the fundie approved list! J.S. Bach himself was quite a devout man.

(By no means am I mocking Bach’s works. They are absolute masterpieces. I was just surprised to hear that music written by a noted man of faith didn’t fit into the Gothard belief system.) 

[SapphireSlytherin]

Not only was Bach religious - he's buried under the chancel in Thomaskirche in Leipzig, and his likeness is in one of the church's stained glass windows. One of my favorite places I visited when I lived in Europe.

 

 

[metheglyn]

2 hours ago, JillsFlowerHeadband said:

Wow, I had no idea that Bach wasn’t on the fundie approved list! J.S. Bach himself was quite a devout man.

(By no means am I mocking Bach’s works. They are absolute masterpieces. I was just surprised to hear that music written by a noted man of faith didn’t fit into the Gothard belief system.) 

I mean, I can't say for sure that he's not, and I think they may *play* some classical music, but we've never heard them sing anything that's not Christmas carols, Amazing Grace, or relatively recent-ish hymns. I certainly haven't heard any of the true classic canon from them. If anyone can recall hearing them do any of it, or knows better, I'd certainly be interested to know!

[Flossie]

Could it be that Bach was a Lutheran?  Would the Duggars consider that to be Catholic-lite?

[metheglyn]

Here's an interesting thread from Discovering Grace (the PRO-Gothard) website talking about the official view on Gothard and music - "What music is or isn't acceptable and why is it the case?". To be taken with a mountain of salt, of course, and it goes on some wild tangents, but it's still interesting.  http://www.discoveringgrace.com/2015/12/25/bill-and-music/ 

Contrasted with an article called "The Phony 'Consequences' of Rock Music" from Recovering Grace: http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/11/the-phony-consequences-of-rock-music/ 

And the IBLP Music Store, which is mostly non-classical hymns, again with some classical Christmas music (including the Hallelujah Chorus, which they *should* know is actually technically for Easter/"Resurrection Sunday", the routine performance of the entire Messiah at Christmas notwithstanding). I didn't find any collections of classical religious music, at least.  https://store.iblp.org/category/MUSIC.html

I'm not claiming there's anything inherently wrong with the hymns themselves, as we sing them too, it's just that they're missing so much gorgeous and moving spiritual music by seeming to EXCLUDE the classical religious repertoire.

[Rachel333]

Most fundamentalists I've known have been fine with classical music. I've actually never heard any fundies say there's anything wrong with artists like Bach, but they might just not care to listen to classical music.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

10 hours ago, Flossie said:

Could it be that Bach was a Lutheran?  Would the Duggars consider that to be Catholic-lite?

Well, Amazing Grace was written by an Episcopalian, and they don't have any problem with it.

Sometimes I think some folks think that God personally wrote Amazing Grace and then slipped it into the binding of all King James Bibles.  I love the song, but hearing various Duggars sing or play it isn't my idea of a good time.

[Shadoewolf]

I think the younger Duggars could appreciate the Newsboys, possibly 12 Stones,  Creed wasn't actually a Christian band but many of their songs are spiritually based. Christian rock is a huge genre and has some decent music (and I'm a heathen Pagan) but sadly I don't think the Duggars would allow it. 

I heard Amazing Grace done on the bagpipes 2 months ago, moved me to tears it was so good.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

Just now, Shadoewolf said:

I think the younger Duggars could appreciate the Newsboys...

Ah, but the "old" Newsboys with Peter Furler or the "new" Newsboys with Michael Tait? 

2 minutes ago, Shadoewolf said:

Christian rock is a huge genre and has some decent music (and I'm a heathen Pagan) but sadly I don't think the Duggars would allow it. 

Yeah, there are so many interesting Christian singers and bands. I wonder if they would even listen to someone more "mellow", like Chris Rice, or Rich Mullins, or Michael W. Smith? It's a shame they've blocked themselves off from anything outside their narrow rules of acceptable music, like they have with the rest of life.