Harvey Weinstein the Sexual Harasser

[Cleopatra7]

2 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

Did you all know that Rose grew up in a cult/ commune in Tuscany?  "Children of God".  She got out and emancipated herself at 15.  There was a call for children to be sexually active.  She escaped that.  

The Phoenix family was also in the Children of God, and lived in South America as missionaries for some years. River implied in some interviews that he had had some sexual experiences as a very young child in the group, but never really elaborated, as was his right. I don’t think the other Phoenix siblings have spoken about their experiences with the cult.

[Eatingintheprayercloset]

I wonder if politicians heard about the Weinstein rumors? There's a good chance politicians just view celebrities and other Hollywood insiders as mere cash cows and not stay in the loop of that world. I really doubt Obama would have let Malia intern for Weinstein if he knew (granted, I doubt she worked exclusively with HW). 

 

[Beermeet]

@Cleopatra7. I did not know that.  Oh dear.  

[OtterRuletheWorld]

I wonder if politicians heard about the Weinstein rumors? There's a good chance politicians just view celebrities and other Hollywood insiders as mere cash cows and not stay in the loop of that world. I really doubt Obama would have let Malia intern for Weinstein if he knew (granted, I doubt she worked exclusively with HW).   

 

Of course some had, but when they are funding your political career...🤷 

 

 

[Beermeet]

5 minutes ago, Eatingintheprayercloset said:

I wonder if politicians heard about the Weinstein rumors? There's a good chance politicians just view celebrities and other Hollywood insiders as mere cash cows and not stay in the loop of that world. I really doubt Obama would have let Malia intern for Weinstein if he knew (granted, I doubt she worked exclusively with HW). 

 

I bet some did.  I doubt the Obama's would do such a thing.  I was surprised to hear women from Hollywood families were targeted.  Gwenyth, Angelina, Roseanna Arquette for example.  

[OtterRuletheWorld]

I wonder if politicians heard about the Weinstein rumors? There's a good chance politicians just view celebrities and other Hollywood insiders as mere cash cows and not stay in the loop of that world. I really doubt Obama would have let Malia intern for Weinstein if he knew (granted, I doubt she worked exclusively with HW). 
 

Maybe, maybe not. If it's for money, and he is assuming since she is a daughter of a goddamned president, that she will be safe. He would have to be pretty fucking stupid to try shit with Malia.

Nobody would have been able to ignore Malia Obama. Even if she witnessed something, it would have been pretty hard to quiet a story coming from her.

I don't think Obama willingly placed her in harm's way, but I am sure she was super protected AND she still has Secret Service doesn't she? I could be wrong.

[calimojo]

As one of the older posters on here, I can just say that for most of my life, there was a type of baseline sexual harassment dynamic that was more or less expected.  In fact, it was so much a fabric of things that I think some women may have felt left out if they didn't get that kind of 'attention'.  Women were always expected to have to fend off men.  We learned to laugh it off, deflect, ignore, etc.  I was in my early 20's when there started to be some coverage of sexual harassment lawsuits, etc and There was so much skepticism.  Then when Anita Hill testified, that became a very polarizing moment in sexual politics. 

[Beermeet]

@calimojo.  I remember the Anita Hill case well.  I was in HS, a senior, I think.  I remember all the " jokes" too.  That must have been rough on her.  Brave woman right there.  

[CrazyMumma]

Sooo.. if this lady Rose had come forward and sued him when it happened.. what do you think of her chances would have been to actually get him jailed?  I honestly doubt it.. I think even if she had taken him to court it would have been a pay out and a silence contract signed.  The justice system just isn't always fair for rape victims.  That dude who was caught raping a girl (2 witnesses) and he didn't even get the minimum punishment.  Topic was discussed here on FJ... Brock Turner.. Honestly.. there  were 2 witnesses.. and medical proof... what more could a woman provide to the court?!

[calimojo]

A young unknown actor in hollywood is unlikely to have gotten much notice if she complained about HW.  I could see some of these women, just biding their time.  Especially if they see success is coming their way.  If they waited until they had more power they had more chance to be taken seriously. 

It is  moral conundrum obviously, because the question will be asked why they didn't say something sooner, to prevent others from being victimized.  But again,  it is very likely that if they had spoken up earlier, they would not have been heard. 

I was harassed in my teens by a boss at a restaurant where I worked.  At the time, I used humor to deal with it.  My mom, who was always a strong feminist pretty much told me to brush it off, to make it a joke and of course to avoid being alone with him.  I didn't think much about that at the time, but now, as a mom, and as a feminist myself, I am truly rocked by that memory.  Had my daughter told me of being treated similarly, that man would at minimum be fired, and possibly would be in jail.  It really shocks me that my brilliant, strong and well spoken mother gave me that advice. 

Logically, I know that it is because it just wasn't all that shocking to her.  She was in her 40's at the time, and she had been widowed for about 10 years.  We were in a small town, and this was back in the day, when there were still traveling salesmen, and insurance guys who went door to door.  It was amazing how quickly these men swooped in on the poor widow.  And, it was also interesting how the town, who had once felt so badly for my mom over the loss of my dad, suddenly assumed she was entertaining gentlemen on a regular basis.  She was the only 'young' widow in the town and there was one divorcee.  My mom was treated better than the divorcee', but she was still suspect. 

So, while her response to me is disappointing, I guess when I put it into perspective of her time, and that era, I kind of get it.  The early feminists were about change, but they were also about perseverance.  In other words, I think they realized that they would endure terrible things, much as the suffragettes did.  I think they knew when they entered male dominated work forces that they would have to cope, tolerate and ignore the continual sexual power plays and politics and in many cases outright harassment and abuse.  They viewed themselves as survivors.  Yes, they wanted to change the world, and they did, but They had such a huge uphill battle, that they opted to push through much of the dreck of humanity they were confronted with often

[FundieFarmer]

Sooo.. if this lady Rose had come forward and sued him when it happened.. what do you think of her chances would have been to actually get him jailed?  I honestly doubt it.. I think even if she had taken him to court it would have been a pay out and a silence contract signed.  The justice system just isn't always fair for rape victims.  That dude who was caught raping a girl (2 witnesses) and he didn't even get the minimum punishment.  Topic was discussed here on FJ... Brock Turner.. Honestly.. there  were 2 witnesses.. and medical proof... what more could a woman provide to the court?!

That (and a few other things) is exactly why I didn't try. I felt I could've had all the evidence in the world- even waking my roommate up to help me kick him out- and it still wouldn't be enough. Hell, some of my best friends didn't even believe me (including that very roommate until it was unavoidably obvious) so why would the courts? It feels like no matter what we do, no matter how much evidence we have or how clean our previous sexual experience, how many bruises we get or how many people it takes to get him out of your house, we just can't get the man prosecuted. It's ridiculous.

[VelociRapture]

Not to continue beating a dead horse, but...

Rose states that she once spoke with an attorney, meaning she likely had considered legal action or reporting her rape at some point in the last twenty years. That attorney told her not to bother because she had done a sex scene in a movie and no one would believe her after that:

That is very likely the type of fear that kept her silent for twenty years, only dropping vague hints once in a while. It’s also likely that this same fear of not being believed or being blamed is part of why she accepted a settlement in the first place, even if the lawyer conversation didn’t come until later.

Rose was 24 years old, had only escaped from a cult nine years prior, and was really just starting her career. It’s very easy to understand why she might have looked at the situation and felt it was better not to take legal action. For God’s sake, even “perfect” victims have trouble being taken seriously when they report crimes. Take Taylor Swift for an example. She was groped by a DJ when she was 22 or 23, had photos and witnesses to back up her story, and there are still people in the general public who don’t believe her or who claim she overreacted (though thankfully the Judge tossed the DJ’s lawsuit out and ruled in Taylor’s favor. She was fortunate to have good attorneys and a sympathetic judge.)

Now imagine you are just starting your career, you were groped or raped by a major Hollywood Producer, no witnesses were present, and you have no evidence to back you up. Can you imagine what kind of reaction Rose or any of these women would have received? Can you imagine the added pain and humiliation if it had gone to trial and they lost? Can you imagine having to deal with the fallout of being blacklisted and unable to find work or being torn to shreds in the press because you obviously must have lied if you lost? Or being accused of falsifying a crime to get press attention so you could further your career?

I don’t blame any of them one bit. I give Rose, and all victims, a lot of credit for surviving and for rebuilding her life. 

(And apologies to anyone who was or is triggered by this conversation. I really feel strongly that this needs to be addressed because victim blaming is just so abhorrent to me.)

[NakedKnees]

It's such a sad situation and I can't take my eyes from it. I started my degree in film in the LA area, and when I was in my late teens would have done "anything" to work for the Weinstein bros., "anything" meaning unpaid internships, shit commutes, that sort of thing.

So, it's a distant connection, but the thought that he's been abusing his power over ambitious young women all along makes me sick to my stomach. I'm glad his slimeball "in the 60s and 70s" and possible """sex addiction""" excuses aren't flying. I hope they continue to be shot down, and I hope past offenders who got off by saying such nonsense receive what they deserve as well.

[Beermeet]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/14/business/media/harvey-weinstein-ousted-from-motion-picture-academy.html

This made me happy, especially the attitude of no second chances, no more tolerating it.  I sure hope it sticks and the pedophiles get called out and jailed.

[OtterRuletheWorld]

Kevin Spacey is now on the list of Hollywood's sexual assaulters. I don't think anyone is appearing to be shocked by these allegations.  He also discussed his sexuality publicly (for the first time) while giving a bullshit publicly apology to Anthony Rapp in the same breath. 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/anthony-rapp-kevin-spacey-made-a-sexual-advance-when-i-was-14

 

[OtterRuletheWorld]

Many are expressing their disgust at Spacey using this time to come-out.

He just managed to tie homosexuality to coming out as gay together. Fuck Spacey. Years of fighting that stereotype.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/30/entertainment/kevin-spacey-gay/index.html

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

2 hours ago, OtterRuletheWorld said:

He just managed to tie homosexuality to coming out as gay together.

Um, maybe I'm missing something here, but did you mean to use a different word than "homosexual"? I don't think that "homosexual" is the word to describe a 26 year old man who forced himself on a 14 year old boy. Did you mean to say "pedophile", maybe? (No condescension intended.  )

[OtterRuletheWorld]

Um, maybe I'm missing something here, but did you mean to use a different word than "homosexual"? I don't think that "homosexual" is the word to describe a 26 year old man who forced himself on a 14 year old boy. Did you mean to say "pedophile", maybe? (No condescension intended.  )

Yes. I was meant to say sexual assault and was also reading comments about him. Sorry and thanks for clearing that up.

[clueliss]

I just read that Netflix is pulling the plug on House of Cards after season 6.  (Good Job Spacey)

[OtterRuletheWorld]

I just read that Netflix is pulling the plug on House of Cards after season 6.  (Good Job Spacey)

I am happy Netflix did this, but I think last season had left much to be desired. I loved it so much at first, but this season fell pretty flat for me. Maybe they will come back. A lot of it was stuff that happened didn't seem very consistent with the characters.

[OtterRuletheWorld]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/daily-shows-trevor-noah-blasts-kevin-spacey-talk-about-the-worst-time-to-come-out

Trevor Noah on Kevin Spacey.

There are probably more that will come forward and Spacey knows it. Otherwise he would have denied it all.

[OtterRuletheWorld]

And more accusers come forward. I doubt anyone is shocked.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kevin-spacey-more-sexual-harassment-accusations/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=44195740