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Kendra and Joe Duggar 6: Sitting in a tree...M.A.R.R.I.E.D!


samurai_sarah

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12 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

Back on the topic of their honeymoon, I thought Santorini was a weird choice for a Fundie couple for a few reasons.  Obviously the culture there is far less modest than their circles and that's a big one.  My husband and I honeymooned in Greece on the mainland.  (Meteora will probably be the best thing I ever seen and I've done a pretty decent amount of traveling.)  I looked into Santorini when we were planning it, and although we lived together before marriage I decided I didn't want to travel somewhere that you can't flush toilet paper while on our theoretically most romantic vacation ever.

I also honeymooned in Greece, over twenty years ago though, including Santorini, and I don’t remember anything about not flushing the toilet paper. I’m a rule follower, so I would have done whatever a sign or a hotel clerk told me to do. Maybe I’ve blocked it from my memory. I’ll ask the husband later. Our trip was all planned by a travel agent so maybe she chose more modern hotels for American bathroom habits. I was just researching this online and opinions were about 50/50 about flushing/not flushing the tp. We did go to a beach on Santorini and I think it would have been the only topless beach I’ve been to in my life, but again, I’ve got a bad memory and have forgotten about it or it just wasn’t that big of a deal. Maybe I was focused on the men in speedos. So this recounts the only time in my life that I used my passport!

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1 hour ago, Eternalbluepearl said:
On 11/14/2017 at 9:18 PM, SapphireSlytherin said:

My SIL was pregnant four weeks after she gave birth to one of my nephews.

This happened to my mom too. 

This happened to my Aunt, as well as a family friend. Irish twins FTW!

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I was going to use the restroom one time and saw a sign that said to not flush the toilet paper. I opted not to use it. Even though it would be in the trash I didn’t feel comfortable with the idea that someone would have to take out the trash with used toilet paper in it. Especially #2 used toilet paper. 

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When I went in to see my obstetrician for my 6-week postpartum appointment she told me I'd be shocked at how many women show up to that appointment pregnant. I was gobsmacked. Like when did they find the time or the willpower or anything? I admit I had a hard baby, a terrible sleeper, but still.

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7 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

When I went in to see my obstetrician for my 6-week postpartum appointment she told me I'd be shocked at how many women show up to that appointment pregnant. I was gobsmacked. Like when did they find the time or the willpower or anything? I admit I had a hard baby, a terrible sleeper, but still.

Mine said the same thing, but the doctor had said no fellowship before that appointment.  I'm amazed how many people just ignore medical advice, AND have time, energy and willpower.

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7 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

Mine said the same thing, but the doctor had said no fellowship before that appointment.  I'm amazed how many people just ignore medical advice, AND have time, energy and willpower.

Mine said the same thing and I'm a rule follower (plus had a HORRIBLE pregnancy) so there was no second baby in 6 weeks or any time thereafter. Birth control FTW.

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I do not wish to cross a boundary and obviously I have no idea, but I think out of all the couples, Kendra and Joe might not have gone from 0 to 100 right away. Joe seems like a super nice guy, very into Kendra, and probably nervous himself. We will never know but I like to think they eased into it, at least over a few days. 

Honestly not trying to be TMI, but "enjoying the bases" with a lover before "reaching home" was one of my favorite parts of young love. And even now with my fiance sometimes we don't "reach home" but have still spent a lovely evening together. :my_blush:

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9 hours ago, AtlanticTug said:

When I went in to see my obstetrician for my 6-week postpartum appointment she told me I'd be shocked at how many women show up to that appointment pregnant. I was gobsmacked. Like when did they find the time or the willpower or anything? I admit I had a hard baby, a terrible sleeper, but still.

I've never given birth, so apologies if this is an icky question, but don't things hurt for awhile after? Even if there's no episiotomy or tearing, I imagine things wpuld need some time to go back to normal. Plus it's harder to conceive while breast feeding, and sleepless nights, screaming babies and post partum depression would be mood killers.

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It varies person to person and sometimes with each pregnancy. Some people can go back to bouncing 2 weeks post, others it can be 2 months or 2 years. It's not usually recommended for 6-8 weeks but...

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Hmmm. 6-8 weeks? That's a little more than 40 days, but much less than 80. I wonder if there is a level of health/safety practicality to that minimum 40 day abstention period that the Old Testament talks about.

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15 hours ago, AtlanticTug said:

When I went in to see my obstetrician for my 6-week postpartum appointment she told me I'd be shocked at how many women show up to that appointment pregnant. I was gobsmacked. Like when did they find the time or the willpower or anything? I admit I had a hard baby, a terrible sleeper, but still.

I wasn’t pregnant at my 6 week checkup after my first child - but I was 5 weeks later when I went to get my implant fitted (I had to wait to have a cycle before I could get it). And I was nursing on demand and co-sleeping. Also 23 and, apparently, ultra fertile. Thank god I’m not quiverful - I would have at least 10 kids by now (13 years later). My four seem excessive enough, really.

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1 hour ago, lilith said:

I wasn’t pregnant at my 6 week checkup after my first child - but I was 5 weeks later when I went to get my implant fitted (I had to wait to have a cycle before I could get it). And I was nursing on demand and co-sleeping. Also 23 and, apparently, ultra fertile. Thank god I’m not quiverful - I would have at least 10 kids by now (13 years later). My four seem excessive enough, really.

Man, I can't even imagine how you survived pregnancy with a newborn. I am finding it super hard with a 2-year-old.

I had a c-section and expected that it would mean no pain afterwards (in terms of sex) and that was wrong, wrong, wrong. Interestingly there have been studies done and a number of papers written about how the pain associated with sex is higher in c-section women than vaginal birth women which is totally counterintuitive.

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When I went in to see my obstetrician for my 6-week postpartum appointment she told me I'd be shocked at how many women show up to that appointment pregnant. I was gobsmacked. Like when did they find the time or the willpower or anything? I admit I had a hard baby, a terrible sleeper, but still.


My teenage cousin’s teenage girlfriend just had her second baby in a bit less than 11 months. He’s in jail right now so unless she has a new guy the next one won’t be so soon.
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I remember getting the all-clear at my 6 week checkup and thinking like a five-year-old who has just heard the facts of life :  "Why would anyone want to do that?"  Or, as I said to my ob/gyn " Why paint a car you already crashed?"  It took more than 6 weeks postpartum for my libido to return.  

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It took me a lot longer than six weeks to be ready again. I probably tore a little, I didn’t really ask about it, and I was breastfeeding. I thought it hurt a lot. TMI part, when I would get “in the mood” my breasts would leak. Um, instant mood killer for me. I think my hormones were so whacked, I wouldn’t get my period back for about six months. In summary, many months before regular and enjoyable again.

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What I don't really understand about 'accidentally' getting pregnant within the first 2 months after having given birth: why would you not use birth-control if you don't want to get pregnant? It is not as if you're suddenly unable to conceive. Maybe the chances of conception are slightly lower when you're nursing, but the chance is not zero. I've always been taught that unless you're already pregnant, pregnancy is always a possibility (at least, for women with a functioning uterus and ovaries, and who haven't gone through menopause yet), and that if you don't want to get pregnant you should use a reliable birth-control method. If you can't get hormonal birth-control before your cycle is back to normal, you can always use condoms. 
Personally, I think getting pregnant within the first two months after having given birth is only really an accident (as in, totally unexpected and unplanned) if it’s the result of having been misinformed by your doctor about being able to conceive post-partum, or if it’s the result of a birth-control fail, but not if it’s the result of not using birth-control at all despite being fully aware of the birds and the bees.* 

*Of course, this does not go for women who have never been taught about the birds and the bees and therefore have no clear grasp of how conception actually works, or women with fertility issues whose prior pregnancy/ies was/were results of medical intervention and who’ve been told they won’t be able to conceive naturally. (I’ve seen enough episodes of I Didn’t Know I Was Pregnant about women who’d found themselves unexpectedly pregnant despite having been told by their doctors that they couldn’t conceive naturally.) I’m specifically talking about women who know they can get pregnant without medical intervention, and who fully understand how they got pregnant the first time around. 
     

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8 minutes ago, Marly said:

What I don't really understand about 'accidentally' getting pregnant within the first 2 months after having given birth: why would you not use birth-control if you don't want to get pregnant?

Probably for the same reason people accidentally get pregnant at any time. They just forget/don't bother with birth control, they miscalculate their fertile window, there's a birth control malfunction... could be any number of things. It's kind of unnecessary to snark on women who experience it, imo. Accidents happen - a lot of us wouldn't be here otherwise. :pb_lol:

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@Marly Because LAM (lactation amenorrhea method) is actually a contraceptive method if you follow the rules correctly and it works for MOST women at least for the first 6 months if you nurse the baby with a certain frequency and co-sleep and have a look at your cervical mucus. However, some people probably don't follow that method and think "as long as my menstruation has not come back/as long as I'm breastfeeding, I won't get pregnant" which is of course not true. 

Edit: here's more about it https://www.optionsforsexualhealth.org/birth-control-pregnancy/birth-control-options/natural-methods/lam

Some NFP/FAM methods also have rules for finding out that fertility is returning. 

But unfortunately (at least I think so), this method is often shortened to "as long as you breastfeed, that's contraception" which is a myth. 

And another edit: of course it is also not easy to track your fertility when you have a small baby with you and you might actually miss some signs because I imagine you need to get used to your post partum body in general. Also, fertility signs and cycle length etc. can take time to go back to how it was before or they might be different from your usual pattern afterwards (as far as I know). 

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21 minutes ago, L1o2u3 said:

@Marly Because LAM (lactation amenorrhea method) is actually a contraceptive method if you follow the rules correctly and it works for MOST women at least for the first 6 months if you nurse the baby with a certain frequency and co-sleep and have a look at your cervical mucus. However, some people probably don't follow that method and think "as long as my menstruation has not come back/as long as I'm breastfeeding, I won't get pregnant" which is of course not true. 

Straight from Planned Parenthood. You need to click to the next page to see the exceptions to this. They don’t even explain that you’re going to ovulate before you get your period back. So there’s some information lacking out there from what should be reliable sources.

9ED1AEC8-D7DD-4D84-A8E1-979CEA02F920.jpeg

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@JDuggs The informations on the PP sites are not what I would rely on for birth control, honestly. They also claim that hormonal birth control methods have health benefits... (I know they do have them for some people, eg. with edometriosis, but for many people, they have nasty side effects instead of benefits). It is helpful for getting birth control or abortions or IUDs, but they do not offer good informations on non-hormonal methods. :/ 

Edit: The site also says

Quote

It’s important to remember that breastfeeding can only be used as birth control for the first 6 months of a baby’s life, or until your period returns

which is not true. If your period returns, you might already have ovulated before... 

PP also says FAMs (Fertility Awareness Methods) are only 76-88% effective. But they fail to explain that there are methods that combine several fertility signs and that those are way safer- for example, Tony Weschler's FAM can have a Pearl Index of 2 (meaning that out of 100 women, 2 get pregnant when using that method for a year). If I were Planned Parenthood, instead of enumerating those methods that are not very safe, I would only mention those with a high safety (and effectiveness over 95%). 

And a funny thing is that when I take their quiz about which contraception is best for me, I always choose "I don't want to take hormones" and they always recommend hormonal IUDs to me. :D 

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2 hours ago, Marly said:

What I don't really understand about 'accidentally' getting pregnant within the first 2 months after having given birth: why would you not use birth-control if you don't want to get pregnant? It is not as if you're suddenly unable to conceive. Maybe the chances of conception are slightly lower when you're nursing, but the chance is not zero. I've always been taught that unless you're already pregnant, pregnancy is always a possibility (at least, for women with a functioning uterus and ovaries, and who haven't gone through menopause yet), and that if you don't want to get pregnant you should use a reliable birth-control method. If you can't get hormonal birth-control before your cycle is back to normal, you can always use condoms. 
Personally, I think getting pregnant within the first two months after having given birth is only really an accident (as in, totally unexpected and unplanned) if it’s the result of having been misinformed by your doctor about being able to conceive post-partum, or if it’s the result of a birth-control fail, but not if it’s the result of not using birth-control at all despite being fully aware of the birds and the bees.* 

*Of course, this does not go for women who have never been taught about the birds and the bees and therefore have no clear grasp of how conception actually works, or women with fertility issues whose prior pregnancy/ies was/were results of medical intervention and who’ve been told they won’t be able to conceive naturally. (I’ve seen enough episodes of I Didn’t Know I Was Pregnant about women who’d found themselves unexpectedly pregnant despite having been told by their doctors that they couldn’t conceive naturally.) I’m specifically talking about women who know they can get pregnant without medical intervention, and who fully understand how they got pregnant the first time around. 
     

If your breastfeeding there are limited options for BC.  If you don't want an IUD and are breastfeeding the options are ones that are more likely to fail (except the condom).  Also your super tired, so I expect are ore likely to use any option incorrectly.

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22 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

Mine said the same thing, but the doctor had said no fellowship before that appointment.  I'm amazed how many people just ignore medical advice, AND have time, energy and willpower.

Csections make this much easier.  I can't imagine doing that after giving birth vaginally. Yeah, we played with fire both times. Got lucky but still, played with fire.

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11 hours ago, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

I wonder if there is a level of health/safety practicality to that minimum 40 day abstention period that the Old Testament talks about.

Yes actually! Most scholars of* the old testament speak of this. a lot of the Old testament law of course was so that they had something to point out what they had to do to erase their sins but like I said scholars also believe that it was put in place to help the Israelite nation remain healthier/safer than surrounding nations.  I went to Israel last summer and the tour guide spoke to us on this subject too.  pretty interesting even just from a historical perspective. 

edit- see asterisk* 

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How would people know that they're/show up pregnant at their 6 week postpartum appointment? Surely they don't do a pregnancy test at the appointment. 

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15 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

How would people know that they're/show up pregnant at their 6 week postpartum appointment? Surely they don't do a pregnancy test at the appointment. 

Yes, they do. Why wouldn't they?

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