Joy and Austin 14: Pregnant with Their First

[Snarkle Motion]

4 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Also, it was a lot easier to sweep things under the rug in the early-mid '00s. Now the Duggars are celebrities (bleh), social media rules the world, and the tabloids are constantly sniffing around for the faintest whiff of scandal. The tabloids have proved themselves adept at digging up evidence when it exists.

While I agree that one should assume most rumors are false and that it was easier to cover up things in the past, I hardly think it's accurate to credit the tabloids with digging up the Josh info. Yes, they were instrumental in obtaining the "paper trail" and publishing the details (likely with legal counsel). But this only occurred because an individual from their area knew of the rumors, believed them for whatever reason (possibly knew enough people discussing them or people who were legally not supposed to discuss them) and made a point of contacting the tabloids. The tabloids would never have known to look (the rumors have been around forever - why did they look when they did?) without an individual providing them with that potential info. Rumors from their hometown were actually important to uncovering the truth.

Not that this means we should give credence to all rumors but I think certain rumors (when they involve potential danger or harm to others) should be allowed to be discussed because this is often the way the information starts. I always take rumors about sexual assault or  molestation seriously because statistically people are far less likely to make this up and victims tend to have little recourse other than "gossip" (aka discussing their experience and warning others). 

Joy potentially having premarital sex is low on the importance list but I also find it's discussion low on potential harm to the individuals. I know others disagree. I'm not sure how discussing this possibility is any different than speculating that Derick masterbates or Jinger is using birth control - yes, it's none of our business, it contradicts the beliefs they've espoused, but it's snarking on adults over their stupid sex rules and doubting that they always practice what they preach.

[mango_fandango]

I wonder where Joy will give birth. Will she be gung-ho about home births, given what happened with both of her sister-mom's births and with the aftermath of Spurgeon? (It was after him that Jessa had the haemorrhage, right?) Or will she play safe? If it *is* twins, she will likely have to go to the hospital anyway, and would probably have to get more ultrasounds done to check there's no cord/placenta issues. Michelle's only home births were Jinger and Joe, which means both sets of twins were hospital births (Jana and John-David being c section babies iirc.) 

[Bad Wolf]

If it's March 3, the baby will share a birthday with Josh and me. Aren't I the lucky one.

[Rachel333]

For those saying they hope the baby isn't born on their birthday, is it something that would genuinely bother you or is it just a jokey way to talk about your birthday? I'm not judging either way (hey, when Joy and Austin got married I found a way to bring up my cat's birthday!), I'm just curious because I personally wouldn't really care if I shared a birthday with a Duggar.

[cascarones]

It seems a lot of people don't want to share a birthday/anniversary/ lost their first tooth date with a Duggar. On a personal level, no fuss, I didn't have my birthday in a non-shared celebration until 25 and then all of the attention was weird.

But the math, now I'm curious and shall set my statistical minions to the task to gather us some numbers! Maybe it'll make Bayes law (not Lawson Bates, though that tickles me) slightly more understandable or interesting for the students if I use public figures  

 

[Bad Wolf]

Just joking. I really don't care that I share a birthday with Josh.

[cascarones]

@Bad Wolf I doubt anyone really does! But it might be a lot more engaging than "There are 400 red balls in order, 23 green balls on every seventh prime and 6 squares at intervals of twenty three..." blaaah here's how to use cross tables and nested statements in excel! 

Can you tell I'm working on my powerpoint deck and tables? I'm bored, they'll be bored and bored adults with better things to do have super low retention rates. I can only get so far giving out chocolate and being perky! 

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

22 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

For those saying they hope the baby isn't born on their birthday, is it something that would genuinely bother you or is it just a jokey way to talk about your birthday? I'm not judging either way (hey, when Joy and Austin got married I found a way to bring up my cat's birthday!), I'm just curious because I personally wouldn't really care if I shared a birthday with a Duggar.

I share a birthday with Jinger. (Giggling that my phone didn't correct it.) I also don't get the date sharing eleventy11!!

[apandaaries]

although Kendra shares my parents' birthday and that was annoying.
 

Do your parents share a birthday too? Mine do, and my birthday is two days after theirs. For years, my little brother thought a girl had to share his birthday to be marriage-quality (by first grade, he'd figured it out though).

[Jana814]

5 hours ago, amandaaries said:

Do your parents share a birthday too? Mine do, and my birthday is two days after theirs. For years, my little brother thought a girl had to share his birthday to be marriage-quality (by first grade, he'd figured it out though).

That's funny about your brother. My old chorus teacher and his wife share a birthday. He's 2 years older.

[Casserole]

7 hours ago, Kangaroo said:

Next leap year is 2020. It's always the same year as the Olympics.

I must say though, a Duggar grandbaby born on February 29 might be lucky enough never to share it with anyone else in the family. They'd probably get a little extra attention because it was only once every 4 years.

I see the opposite happening. Once they become one of ten kids, mom and dad will only have to take them to Marketplace for the chocolate sundae monstrosity once every four years. "Sorry hunny, you don't have a birthday this year." 

Hopefully the Duggar daughters are better than this, but I absolutely would have sees JB and M doing that if any of the 19 were unfortunate enough to be born on February 29th. 

[bal maiden]

Bit late to the party here, but wanted to comment that using euphemisms like 'heavy' or 'thick' doesn't make a judgement about someone's body size and shape any less unpleasant if it is still couched in sizest terms. I don't think there's anything wrong with us, or society as a whole, acknowledging that people have different bodies - not to do so would be up there with 'colour blindness' and other stupidities which ignore privilege and structural issues - but just omitting the word 'fat' is not really helpful on its own, even if it is well meant. 

[SassyPants]

36 minutes ago, bal maiden said:

 I don't think there's anything wrong with us, or society as a whole, acknowledging that people have different bodies - not to do so would be up there with 'colour blindness' and other stupidities which ignore privilege and structural issues .

I just have one question- so this would go to all physical descriptions as well? How would you verbally acknowledge different body types for a person who is on the larger, thicker size?  Not mentioning it at all, if you were mentioning others, who were not large, doesn't seem right either. Mary is the smaller one. Ann is taller. Are taller and smaller also considered shaming? Again, I can see why many people choose to say anything, but of course, that offends as well.

 

[Palimpsest]

7 hours ago, Snarkle Motion said:

Not that this means we should give credence to all rumors but I think certain rumors (when they involve potential danger or harm to others) should be allowed to be discussed because this is often the way the information starts. I always take rumors about sexual assault or  molestation seriously because statistically people are far less likely to make this up and victims tend to have little recourse other than "gossip" (aka discussing their experience and warning others). 

Bull shit.  That is one of the worst excuses and justifications for rumor-mongering I have seen so far.

It is horrible enough when it is stranger or date rape of an adult, but incest and child molestation are far more complex.

Victims of incest, sexual assault and child molestation rarely "gossip."  They are far, far, more likely to keep the information to themselves.  Many are told to keep the family secret and are often shamed into it.  Like the Duggar sisters.  Many are afraid to disclose the information to strangers - especially to law enforcement.  If they are lucky enough, they will be able to discuss the assault in confidence with a professional counselor - who would be mandated to report.  Only when they are ready should they go public.

"Gossip" and speculation by others is harmful and does nothing to help the victim.  That is why we have the rule about not speculating about victims of sexual abuse at any age.

I have nothing but contempt for "Concerned Mom" and "Alice" (who may or may not be the same person) who first started the rumors.  Had they gone to the correct authority (CPS) immediately, then perhaps Josh would have been charged within the Statute of Limitations and there would have been proper intervention with him, as well as decent counseling for his victims, and education of the parental units on how best to help the children.  Furthermore, the CPS records would have been kept confidential and not vulnerable to a public information request, unlike the police report.

Instead "Alice" and "Concerned Mom" gossiped on the internet, and probably among their church friends and community.  And the malice in that gossip was palpable.  So much so that many of us discounted the rumors - because surely people with first hand knowledge would have done something - other than gossip.

Here's the timeline of the whole molestation story, which is accurate according to my memory:  http://defamer.gawker.com/the-web-has-known-about-josh-duggar-for-years-when-did-1706258269

If people voluntarily disclose their experiences and choose to educate, as sometimes happens with members here, that is healthy.  Discussing difficult issues like this in general, without naming or speculating about individuals, is healthy.  Speculating about anyone who has not already gone public is wrong.

[HereticHick]

In the future, everyone will share their birthday with a Duggar, or three.

[Snarkle Motion]

@Palimpsest CPS was involved in the case, if I recall correctly. That does not mean they have a duty to warn others or let people know josh was a potential threat. In fact, law enforcement and the court system are likely bound by confidentiality rules that would only "permit" them to anonymously tell others.

I'be made several reports to CPS. The fact that the Duggars did safety planning (making Josh had his own room, locked doors, seperate bedrooms for girls/boys) leads me to believe CPS was involved. Most time unfortunately the cases are determined to not have enough information to take actions even when an individual has disclosed credible allegations of abuse to me. You'd be surprised how often nothing happens. Other times the information is forwarded to law enforcement (sometimes without action by CPS if I understand correctly, they've determined the report credible but not necessarily warrents current action to protect the minor if there is determined no immediate risk within the household such as in teenage date rape). This referral to law enforcement could also be why Josh had a police report. 

My point about "gossip" being recourse was more for rape victims, particularly teenagers and those on college campus. The majority of times there is not enough info to make a determination for legal action or action by the school but I definitely believe the victim has a right to tell others what happened, at the perpetrators expense, and other people can spread this info (aka "gossip") to other people. The truth is that the potential damage these rumors have for people is actually minimal, it tends not to impact people's lives as much as you think, but can help others come forward and protect potential victims. People are actually more likely to dismiss the claims or give the perpetrator the benefit of the doubt. There's also emerging evidence that lots of people had heard reports about Sandusky but it wasn't until he was literally caught in act that anything happened. 

[Carm_88]

Thanks guys for leaving the real guessing until post M5!  Guesses are being tallied as well speak! What happens when I have a whole bunch at once? That's soon going to happen. 

[NeverBeenKissed]

I also fine it odd/funny when peeps get all up in arms about sharing a birthday or anniversary with (insert annoying family here.) I could give a fuck. It's MY day and I don't care how many other people I supposedly share it with cuz that day is a celebration of my life. 

 

[MargaretElliott]

I share a birthday with my twin, but you don't see me getting all bent out of shape about it... I kid 

I do wonder what Joy's birth plan will be. So far, most of the Duggar daughters have been gung-ho about home births, and it hasn't always worked out. I just hope she gets proper pre-natal care and gives birth in the way she prefers. Safely. With the help of educated, qualified people. I see nothing inherently wrong with home births, but if your midwife is Jill, well... her skills are questionable at best.

[Jinder Roles]

@amandaaries Yes they do! Different years though. And you're brother is hilarious.

It would only be slightly annoying to share a birthday  because of the baby-mania madness whenever a Duggar gives birth. Pregnancy-watch on FJ can be wild sometimes. 

[KelseyAnn]

Are we doing the baby pool now? 

If so, my guess is May 24th sometime in the afternoon. The baby will be a girl they name Elizabeth. 

[Rachel333]

3 hours ago, bal maiden said:

Bit late to the party here, but wanted to comment that using euphemisms like 'heavy' or 'thick' doesn't make a judgement about someone's body size and shape any less unpleasant if it is still couched in sizest terms. I don't think there's anything wrong with us, or society as a whole, acknowledging that people have different bodies - not to do so would be up there with 'colour blindness' and other stupidities which ignore privilege and structural issues - but just omitting the word 'fat' is not really helpful on its own, even if it is well meant. 

I can definitely understand that, but I also think that people often genuinely use those terms without trying to say that the person is fat. "Thick" is actually a really positive term right now!

[VBOY9977]

12 minutes ago, KelseyAnn said:

Are we doing the baby pool now? 

If so, my guess is May 24th sometime in the afternoon. The baby will be a girl they name Elizabeth. 

The baby won't be born in May because she would be like one month pregnant as of now and it would've been really early in a pregnancy when they announced. The best guesses are feb-march

[VineHeart137]

16 minutes ago, KelseyAnn said:

Are we doing the baby pool now? 

If so, my guess is May 24th sometime in the afternoon. The baby will be a girl they name Elizabeth. 

I believe a friend of the Duggars has said baby Forsyth is due late February.

[habert]

So this talk of sharing birthdays made me think and I went and did some quick math:

Including Grandma Mary, Amy, Jim Bob and Michelle, their 19 kids, and all their current spouses and living grand kids, there are currently 36 unique birthdays, which is 9.86% of a 365 day year. When Baby Forsyth is born, as long as it's a unique birthday, that will be up to 10.14% of the year.