Jinger 29: New House and New Wardrobe

[MargaretElliott]

I find it utterly ridiculous that anyone would look down on, you know, HELPING PEOPLE. When I went to church (former Catholic here) there was a charity challenge every month, and every month, the congregation went above and beyond and blasted the original challenge requirements out of the water. One month it was food donations, the next diapers and baby supplies, etc, etc. 

I can't fault Jinger or Joy for dressing in a way their new husband likes. I've branched out into some more adventurous fashion choices since being with my new boyfriend (never before would I have tried black lipstick, and now I love it for a night out), and not only do I feel good, I love the compliments he gives me. Then again, they're not based upon grossly outdated and sexist ideas of modesty, so there's a bit of a difference there.

[VBOY9977]

I stalked one of the pastors that Jeremy posted about on his Instagram and it looks like he's at a seminary called the Master's Seminary....

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

8 hours ago, NakedKnees said:

CPCs, in my experience in the US, are decidedly Christian and anti choice. They use tactics including lying about developmental stages of fetuses, setting up near actual clinics with birth control and abortion services, and attempting to look "medical" without necessarily having any medical staff.

This is so messed up, especially considering the medical costs in the US.

My Canadian CPC experience involved a call to Birthright. They enraged me when they made it sound like abortion was not an option, and wanted to delay an ultrasound (to close my window of opportunity to get one). Once I called OPT (Canadian Planned Parenthood), they were able to refer me to a women's health specialist. It didn't take long to get my appointment, where I was given compassionately worded handouts about my decision to terminate the pregnancy, as well as referrals to post abortion counselling. I had caught the pregnancy within the first eight weeks, and for 100$ (which I made my cheating sociopath ex pay) I was given the pills to medically abort.

[HereticHick]

11 hours ago, VBOY9977 said:

I stalked one of the pastors that Jeremy posted about on his Instagram and it looks like he's at a seminary called the Master's Seminary....

Yes-- https://www.tms.edu/about-the-seminary/  --I wonder if he is considering going there for a Master's degree?  If they hadn't just bought a house in Laredo, I would think it a strong possibility.  However, maybe they could rent out the Laredo house, and Jinger and Jeremy can move to the LA area for a few years! Run, Jinger, Run!! Get as far away as the Duggar compound as possible!

[Four is Enough]

Wow, we collected for the crisis pregnancy center hosted by several Catholic parishes in our area... they offered things like food, diapers, beds, strollers, for women who had no or little support. No conversion/listening to preaching needed. Just show up and need help.,

[cascarones]

1 hour ago, HereticHick said:

Yes-- https://www.tms.edu/about-the-seminary/  --I wonder if he is considering going there for a Master's degree?  If they hadn't just bought a house in Laredo, I would think it a strong possibility.  However, maybe they could rent out the Laredo house, and Jinger and Jeremy can move to the LA area for a few years! Run, Jinger, Run!! Get as far away as the Duggar compound as possible!

Just took a glance, it looks they have a lot of flexibility in their programs (online, distance, etc). Their slogan is "We train men." so there's that to snark on.

He could conceivably do that and still preach or is already doing that as he shows himself studying. House wise? The congregation is too small for a parsonage, but it's not out of the realm that they could rent it out or eventually sell the house to GCC/ donate it to become the parsonage as the church grows or Jeremy moves on to a more prominent location. That's my first thoughts on trajectory. 

[kinphilly]

On 8/9/2017 at 6:35 PM, calimojo said:

Ok, Christian experts,  Help me understand this.  If one of the founding tenets of Christianity is forgiveness of sins, then why is there so much focus on original sin?  If Christ died for our sins and we are now forgiven, then I don't understand the point of baptisms, and the constant reminders of how we are inherently sinful.  Weren't we supposed to be forgiven and I would think if God is truly omniscient and wonderful, that he would have gotten over Eve eating that damned apple by now.  And if not, then I honestly don't think that is a God worth worship.  If God is so angry, thousands upon thousands of years later because of the apple, that just seems like a very odd way to set up a religion. 

 

If I understand how much I have been forgiven, how much I sin in "thought, word and deed, things done and things left undone" on a daily basis ... the comfort I could have offered a hurting acquaintance but didn't because I was tired, or the angry way I told my kids to clean up ... then I should show mercy to the daily failings of everyone else around me too!  

[freshlemonade]

So if charity is out, what is having a servant's heart all about?  Serving your husband?  And do only women need to have servants hearts?  

And to all of the above posters who have suggested that these CPC's start helping with child-raising support,  I whole-heartedly agree.  While pregnancy is scary, and difficult, and I can't imagine going through it as a teen or single or in poverty, raising the child is insanely difficult even for the most advantaged and educated.  If these centers could offer child care classes, help with daycare placements, etc.  they'd be invaluable to the community.  But they'd need to actually help not just lecture.

[ActualReality]

On 8/9/2017 at 6:35 PM, calimojo said:

Ok, Christian experts,  Help me understand this.  If one of the founding tenets of Christianity is forgiveness of sins, then why is there so much focus on original sin?  If Christ died for our sins and we are now forgiven, then I don't understand the point of baptisms, and the constant reminders of how we are inherently sinful.  Weren't we supposed to be forgiven and I would think if God is truly omniscient and wonderful, that he would have gotten over Eve eating that damned apple by now.  And if not, then I honestly don't think that is a God worth worship.  If God is so angry, thousands upon thousands of years later because of the apple, that just seems like a very odd way to set up a religion. 

I honestly love the idea of faith, and of believing in a higher power, but so much of what I see today is people worshipping the bible, not having true faith.  To me true faith means you don't really even need the bible, because you can pray, meditate, and open your mind to learn and love and believe you will be moved in directions that are true and moral and compassionate. 

Different faiths believe different things about original sin.  I grew up in a new testament evangelical church.  They believed that there was no original sin.  That you were basically sin free until the age of 12 or 13.  Prior to that your sins counted against your parents.  After that they counted against you.  Pretty much everything you did was a sin so you had to keep coming back and asking for forgiveness.  It was an endless loop.

Also so me faiths believe that once you're saved you're always saved.  Others disagree. 

Has anyone watched the special about Carlton Pearson.  IT's called Heretic.  Its about a guy who was an evangelical minister and stopped believing.  This American Life did a story on him.  I believe that his story is also on youTube.  It's fascinating!

He's still too religious for my taste but to see a once prominent preacher move from being an evangelical superstar to become a Heretic is FASCINATING!!

[jerkit]

@ActualReality Please tell me that's a RENT reference?!

[Fluffy14]

i am a christian. i don't identify with any denomination.

I haven never noticed so much fire and damnation , and such a big huge push to be saved before i started paying attention to Ben, Derick, and Jeremy's push.

What i find super interesting is this: Calvin set up a draconian society in Geneva and became a tyrant, murdering people at the stake for small infractions that did not line up with his beliefs.

Somehow, this gets all shoved under the rug and these people still follow a guy who was completely off the rails. I messaged Ben about it and actually got a written response. 

He wanted to know where I got the info from because he had never heard of it before. Hello? internet my friend internet. It is written in history books but I can't be bothered to track the source right this second. 

I find all this denomination crap just over the top. Here is an amusing interview between Anton Bosch and T.A. McMahon and to me it just signifies how ridiculous people get about religion in particular denominations....I also sent this to Ben asking which he was but got no response....I wonder why? I laugh every single time I read the list, because it is so stupid and so off base to the gospels......laughing again. Can't stop.

 

Now, have you ever had anybody say to you, “Well, are you a Calvinist or an Arminian?” And then, I’m sure your response would be, as mine, “Wait a minute. I’m not either one. I’m a biblical Christian.” If we’re going for labels, that’s the only one I will accept.

Anton: Right.

Tom: Now within Calvinism, if I said, “Well, yeah, “ or let’s say I’m dealing with somebody who claims to be a Calvinist, and I said, “Well, so you’re a Calvinist.”

And they’d say, ”Yes. Yes, I am.”

I said, “Well, are you a hyper-Calvinist? Are you a moderate Calvinist? Are you a five-point, four-point, three-point, two-point, one-point Calvinist? Are you a Limited Atonement Calvinist? Are you a Particular Atonement Calvinist? Are you a Particular Redemption Calvinist? Are you a Definite Atonement Calvinist?”

Now, folks, these are legitimate – they’re labels, but some would agree, “This is what I am, this is what I am.” But I’ll keep going: “Are you a Almyraldist Calvinist? Are you a non-Almyraldist Calvinist? Are you a supralapsarian Calvinist? Are you an infralapsarian Calvinist? A sub-lapsasrian Calvinist? A sub-lapsarian Calvinist? A cessatinist Calvinist? Are you a continuist Calvinist? Are you a charismatic Calvinist? Are you a miracalist? Are you a providentialist Calvinist?” And the list goes on and on and on. And with all of these things, there are definitions that men have made up to see if you fit into any one of these things. Now, this is men’s rationalism. This is a methodology of trying to work theology out according to the labels and the definitions of men.

[ActualReality]

1 hour ago, jerkit said:

@ActualReality Please tell me that's a RENT reference?!

Lol!  Kind of - yes!  JL and I were friends WAY back in the day.  And by "friends" I mean we met like 3 times and I was super close with his girlfriend.  Still - i'm totally a Renthead and enjoyed many meals at the Life Cafe back when it was just a neighborhood dive.  You're making me misty for the pissy streets of the EV circa 1991.

[candygirl200413]

@Fluffy14 My pastor actually said something similar but me and my mom were like lol wut? this is an evangelical church, so I guess not specified why type of Christian but still kind of specified at the same time.

I used to identify as Protestant, but after talking to my university pastor in my church group, I also dropped the domination and wow my relationship in Christ got so much stronger when I didn't have to fit it in a box.

[socalrules]

3 hours ago, ActualReality said:

Has anyone watched the special about Carlton Pearson.  IT's called Heretic.  Its about a guy who was an evangelical minister and stopped believing.  This American Life did a story on him.  I believe that his story is also on youTube.  It's fascinating!

He's still too religious for my taste but to see a once prominent preacher move from being an evangelical superstar to become a Heretic is FASCINATING!

I have not heard the name Carlton Pearson for maybe 15 years. He used to be everywhere in the religious community. My grandmother and her sisters would get to church early for a good seat when he would come to town and preach at their church. I don't remember if he had his own TV show but he would end up on the religious shows quite often. Such blast from the past. Makes me think of my grandma. 

[JesusCampSongs]

8 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

Wow, we collected for the crisis pregnancy center hosted by several Catholic parishes in our area... they offered things like food, diapers, beds, strollers, for women who had no or little support. No conversion/listening to preaching needed. Just show up and need help.,

Based on what I have heard and observed, the centers run by Catholics are much less focused on providing fake information and more focused on helping women who have already made the decision to continue the pregnancy. The ones in my area offer much more by way of post-birth support, as well. They are also pretty upfront about who they are and what they believe, and don't engage in the kind of weird pseudomedical skullduggery conservative protestants do. 

[drivingmishcrazy]

22 hours ago, VBOY9977 said:

I stalked one of the pastors that Jeremy posted about on his Instagram and it looks like he's at a seminary called the Master's Seminary....

Yup! The seminary is linked to the church as well as The Master's College (it might be University now?) and most of the pastors who go on to work at Grace graduate from there, and the lower level leadership (Bible Study leaders or "shepherds") are often students in seminary.

Jeremy tagged my old high school ministry pastor in the socks post (last I knew he had moved on to college ministry) and I got a twinge of nostalgia and sadness. Some of the beliefs really fucked up my head but sometimes I miss the church, it was a place to belong as a teenager with a shaky home life. If they do wind up spending more time at GCC in the future, they'll find plenty of nice people, I'll give them that.

[Irene]

Is this instragram facebook what? I would like to follow, I hvae the followers suggesting on instagrram

[Pukingpearl]

The This American Life about Carlton Pearson is one of my favorites. I always relate to stories like his because I was raised in  conservative Christian home by loving parents and had a great church experience growing up. But I just stopped buying into a lot of the Christian narrative. 

[Greendoor]

On 8/22/2017 at 9:43 AM, MoonFace said:

How long can they keep coming back?   

My concern is that many pregnancy crisis centers here in the US are there for the mothers for the first few months but then who is there to help them raise the child and support the child the rest of the child's life?    (Boy, lets open a can of worms with that statement) 

It's important to note there are benefits from the Province and Federal government for parents of children.  Mom's get Child Benefit, if she's on welfare she gets an increase for the baby.  If she comes to the food bank, there are baby items there too.  Baby is also eligible for coverage for MSP (Medical Services Plan) and all kids get a free eye exam before they start school.  

Rest of child's life - full on support - comes from Mom and the people she knows.  I was a working single mother (my son's father saw him about 4 hrs on a weekend).  My family were there for my son, our neighbours.  And then his friends.  I was able to pay for childcare.  Parents and friends can provide care for less money.

As a single parent you can claim your child as spouse on Income Tax and claim the Childcare fee and sporting costs.  Having a child on your own is not a cake walk, you make your choice to be your child's parent or to have your own life.  Trust me there are women who pursue they own social life over groceries and time with their children.  Grandparents, and women like me pick up the slack for those kids. 

[PainfullyAware]

Its really interesting that the Master's Seminary has a distance program. It seems pretty obvious that Jeremy is ambitious and doesn't want to run a small church for the rest of his life. And it would make more sense to rise up in the church organization he already works with. So to me that makes it pretty likely that he is or will do one of those programs. A  masters degree in divinity is probably a prerequisite for being a pastor of a large Church, right? There must be a lot of Grace churches if they have their own Seminary!

[metheglyn]

1 hour ago, PainfullyAware said:

Its really interesting that the Master's Seminary has a distance program. It seems pretty obvious that Jeremy is ambitious and doesn't want to run a small church for the rest of his life. And it would make more sense to rise up in the church organization he already works with. So to me that makes it pretty likely that he is or will do one of those programs. A  masters degree in divinity is probably a prerequisite for being a pastor of a large Church, right? There must be a lot of Grace churches if they have their own Seminary!

It does only count for the first year of the three year program, however. They expect you to move to whichever physical location you pick for the second and third years. The closest one to them is Dallas and it's still a 6.5 hour drive. 

[seraaa]

On 8/23/2017 at 7:56 PM, ActualReality said:

Also so me faiths believe that once you're saved you're always saved.  Others disagree. 

 

Notably, Catholicism disagrees. An unforgiven Mortal Sin can keep you separate from God forever, unless you repent. 

(It's been a while, so correct me if I'm wrong on that)

[drivingmishcrazy]

7 hours ago, PainfullyAware said:

There must be a lot of Grace churches if they have their own Seminary!

Yes and no. There are a lot of churches associated and/or partnered with GCC in southern California and I believe more than a couple church plants Nationwide (possibly internationally by missionaries, definitely NOT of the Dillard variety) but they don't really go under the same name as far as I know.

Grace also used to (not sure if they still do) have a private school that ran through, I believe middle school that shared the church campus, there was also a church bookstore when I went there that was open a couple days a week. I could be wrong but some of the books sold there were under Grace Books International so they might be involved with that also.

My information is a few years old though so it might not be 100% accurate. Sorry I feel like I infodumped a little bit there, this is a weird/interesting thing for me.

[acheronbeach]

9 hours ago, Greendoor said:

It's important to note there are benefits from the Province and Federal government for parents of children.  Mom's get Child Benefit, if she's on welfare she gets an increase for the baby.  If she comes to the food bank, there are baby items there too.  Baby is also eligible for coverage for MSP (Medical Services Plan) and all kids get a free eye exam before they start school.  

British Columbian?  And to think, the MSP is the worst provincial health plan.  Low income kids in Ontario get better coverage.  And nobody pays a fee for OHIP.

[Beermeet]

8 hours ago, seraaa said:

Notably, Catholicism disagrees. An unforgiven Mortal Sin can keep you separate from God forever, unless you repent. 

(It's been a while, so correct me if I'm wrong on that)

As far as the Mortal Sins, the priests I spoke to across the board, as well as in my religious education,  said that you can ask for forgiveness,  confess and repent but, as far as God forgiving, well that's up to Him.  He may or may not.  So, don't.   As long as I can remember that's the what was said and taught.  I belonged to 3 Catholic parishes.   One was my grandparents  ( we visited a lot and they were the kind to have parish priests over and traveling jesuits, I had a private 1st communion at that church)  , one as a kid in my home town where I attended religion and went to here and there up until adulthood, another in the town next to mine from 17-22 yrs old.  I started going there because my boss was very active in the church and all the priests came to our dental office.  Father Ted was my fav, he asked me to participate in The Washing of the Feet ceremony.   I did and besides feeling awkward, it was really beautiful.   I almost became an Eucharistic minister.  I felt a calling to help the many older people in our community ( that I got to know better at the office) receive holy communion when they were not well enough to attend services.  I would've if I didn't move clear across the country.

Sometimes I forget how Catholic I was for more than half my life.  I do miss it..........sometimes.