John Shrader 13: Is the End Near? (In Kafue?)

[Lurky]

@Gobsmacked Thanks, that's super-helpful!  If John manages to piss off all the Church Board, can they take over the church, buildings etc?   I'm wondering how much of a reality this could be

[subsaharanafrica]

@Lurky That really depends on if the church owns the land or not.  I think he vaguely mentioned someone providing the church with land but wasn't at all clear on the logistics or legal title to any of it.  The bottom line though is that he personally has no legal claim over the land and can eventually be thrown off of it by whoever does.

[Lurky]

Just now, subsaharanafrica said:

 The bottom line though is that he personally has no legal claim over the land and can eventually be thrown off of it by whoever does.

Thanks!  Can you imagine how he'd spin this, if it ever happened?  SATAN working in the heart of his enemies, and much wailing at God, asking him to help him overcome.

[Palimpsest]

30 minutes ago, subsaharanafrica said:

That really depends on if the church owns the land or not.  I think he vaguely mentioned someone providing the church with land but wasn't at all clear on the logistics or legal title to any of it.  The bottom line though is that he personally has no legal claim over the land and can eventually be thrown off of it by whoever does.

The "head man" graciously provided land for the church plant with Bro. Phellion.  

However, John claimed the land in Kafue for Truth Biblical Historic Bible church was purchased with funds from Sarah Waller's memorial.  Old post:  

That is, if it was ever legally purchased at all.  Or ever registered as a church or nonprofit.  We discussed it here: 

John also acknowledged that he can't own land.  

Oh, the twists and turns of John Shrader!

 

[Griftwood]

He's feeling great and filled with joy! 

...lol. This suddenly seems so familiar to me - I had to deal with a narcissistic sociopath at work for a few years and last year, when his game was finally up (he had, among other things, embezzled quite a bit of money here and there), he acted so much like John does now. In between erupting in fits of rage and talking shit about his enemies (me, among others) behind their back, he would suddenly be buoyed up by I guess a sense of superiority, and tell people how he was feeling "empowered" (he was prone to hilarious malapropisms) and really, all the difficulties put in his way were only making him stronger, etc. etc. 

Only makes it that much more satisfying when they fall. Although I do feel genuinely bad for Esther and the kids, things can't be easy for them. Nevertheless... 

[Howl]

Actually, if he sells the troop carrier he'll have plenty of money and then some. The value of second hand cars in Africa isn't all that far off their value New as the amount spent on taxes gets pushed down the line with each successive buyer. Where we live that style of Land Cruiser that has had duty paid and is only a few years old would easily sell for $40k + USD. Heck, a ten year old one could still bring $30k. 

Well, that's eye opening.  John could sell off the fleet and arrive stateside with a nice grubstake. 

 

5 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Stop sending money to keep John in Zambia.  Instead focus on bringing the whole family home and support them until they get back on their feet in the US.

But could this ever happen?  Soon to be a dozen kids, a mom with zero marketable skills and a plonker* for a husband whose only asset seems to be an endless supply of viable semen, and a personality disorder with a proven track record of alienating everyone he meets.  

Not even the love child of What Color is Your Parachute and The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People could make John a viable candidate in the work force. 

*thank you, @Gobsmacked, for introducing me to this term. 

[Palimpsest]

Ok, I found where John mentioned the original endorsements.  I still can't find Liberty Baptist Mission or Independent Baptist Mission.  Perhaps others will have better luck.  Also, John's "church" needs to be under a doctrinally corrupt  mother body these days.

John needs to be pulled out of Zambia.  He is breaking the laws.

7 minutes ago, Howl said:

But could this ever happen?  Soon to be a dozen kids, a mom with zero marketable skills and a plonker* for a husband whose only asset seems to be an endless supply of viable semen, and a personality disorder with a proven track record of alienating everyone he mee

John getting back on his feet?  Probably not.  However, John is an American citizen and so are Esther and the children.  Bring them back to burden the American tax payer.  Don't leave them to burden Zambia.  Zambia doesn't need them.

The way John is going he is risking fines, imprisonment or deportation.  

Also, Esther and the children are far more vulnerable in Africa than they would be in the US.  They lack family support and their education, to say nothing of their health care, is not being taken care of in Zambia.  If John's funding dries up they will be homeless there too.

[formergothardite]

21 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

 I still can't find Liberty Baptist Mission or Independent Baptist Mission.

I have had no luck finding it either. There is a Liberty Baptist Church in Zambia, but I can't find out much about it. 

John calling the police on Rodrick makes me think that he has finally been backed into a corner and is lashing out however he can. I'm sure he is furious his "fruit" is standing up to him. John never viewed Rodrick or any of the people over there as real humans, they were always props for his missionary fantasy. 

[Carm_88]

Every time I see this thread today all I can think is that John has had a mild snafu in Kafue. 

[Howl]

17 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

John calling the police on Rodrick makes me think that he has finally been backed into a corner and is lashing out however he can. I'm sure he is furious his "fruit" is standing up to him. John never viewed Rodrick or any of the people over there as real humans, they were always props for his missionary fantasy. 

Going to the police could easily backfire on John, once they hear the other side of the story from Roderick.  And if a guy like Handia showed up to back up Roderick's story...John could so easily end up in legal hot water.

And yup, John is predictably on the "upswing"....New project in 5,4,3.......

[Carol]

1 hour ago, Griftwood said:

I had to deal with a narcissistic sociopath at work for a few years and last year, when his game was finally up he acted so much like John does now. In between erupting in fits of rage and talking shit about his enemies (me, among others) behind their back, he would suddenly be buoyed up by I guess a sense of superiority, and tell people how he was feeling "empowered"

John is a regular Martin Shrekeli of fucked missionaries.

[apandaaries]

45 minutes ago, Carol said:

John is a regular Martin Shrekeli of fucked missionaries.

That is John, absolutely.

Somehow I've managed to cruise through these threads without ever solidly connecting the value of the Troopie to the average wage of a Zambian worker.  Yet John's selfish ass has multiple cars, several electricity-chugging appliances, a missing plane, and regular gifts from the US worth thousands.  But he'd rather photograph young boys playing soccer with a plastic bag-ball than share a real soccer ball with them. So that is how Jesus works in your heart, eh John?

His inability to understand the issues with his ostentatious wealth alongside poverty really shows just how little he considers others.

John has also spoken of wanting to "teach" financial independence to others, right? I mean, he's clearly qualified to teach on such a subject.   But that was the reasoning behind the chicken house and other abandoned projects, yes? Has he ever written about hiring domestic help? Does Esther do everything, despite their clear show of relative wealth?

I've not yet had the opportunity to travel to any part of Africa, but I have read many books and articles based in various African countries.  I have noticed that some writers will include references to domestic help and children taken in.  The tone implied that for those who have a little extra, it is proper to share and help others.  So if you're working and have enough, you hire a housekeeper, for example.  Then she can make money to help support herself and her family.  Is there any truth to that, or have I been romanticizing my reading?  

To be fair, that's also how it seems to work (to some degree) elsewhere.  If a well-funded store or industry shows up in town, those looking for work will look there. He's clearly got money to spend, even if he doesn't work, but seems to refuse to share any time, anywhere. He couldn't even give a gift to those who lavishly fed him and opened their home to him.  

 I hope everyone he's tried to convert and everyone who has given even a dime to his giant ego learns all about what he's been doing.  I hope all of his lies, including to foreign governments,  will be exposed.  I hope the other people involved will share their story -- not out of vengeance, but out of a love of truth, which John lacks.  He can and will lie to protect himself (or just to make himself look more impressive), and none of that is fair to those he disparages.  If he's going to shout and sob about persecution online, it's only proper to know the other side of the story.  We know he tries to stifle dissent by any means necessary.  Remember when he warned others not to accept emails from his former converts?  He'll do anything to protect his ego and image.  

When his mission fails, it will be entirely his fault.  The whole project was devoted to his vanity, not to Christ.  His legacy is one of mind-blowing selfishness and narcissism.

[slickcat79]

I was going to say, I wonder if John is instigating to the point that he can claim legitimate, physical threat against himself Esther and the kids, and therefore justify needing emergency funds. Then I come over here and find that he's already doing just that 

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

John calling the police on Rodrick makes me think that he has finally been backed into a corner and is lashing out however he can. I'm sure he is furious his "fruit" is standing up to him. John never viewed Rodrick or any of the people over there as real humans, they were always props for his missionary fantasy.

I suspect that Roderick has the greatest claim to John's church properties. Isn't Phellion Roderick's brother in law or something, too? If he manages to brand Roderick a criminal, he has a chance to maintain control over the land. It won't benefit him for long, but it's probably better than being actively arrested himself. 

I'm trying to figure if there's anyway John could swing moving on to Zimbabwe or someplace else in Sub Sahara Africa. I'm sure he'd be loathe to sell the "truth carrier", but he could def get some money for his other vehicles, one of his 2 printers, the household appliances, etc. He wouldn't be in a good place from an immigration standpoint, but a lack of visas didn't stop him getting into Zambia. 

[Howl]

The histrionic hand wringing and talk of being threatened -- in addition to his other mental/emotional issues, I'm beginning to wonder if he's actually paranoid. 

[Gobsmacked]

6 minutes ago, Howl said:

The histrionic hand wringing and talk of being threatened -- in addition to his other mental/emotional issues, I'm beginning to wonder if he's actually paranoid. 

He is totally nuts. Sadly the poisonwood bible is springing to mind again.

[FloraKitty35]

I feel sorry for the Esther & the children.  As for John and the cops, that whole "white savior" shtick might not go over with them the way he thinks it will.  

[apandaaries]

For those of you who are blocked, there's a new comment on John's FB page, under his plea for prayer from two days ago.  The comment has only been up an hour. For posterity's sake, I'll copy it here.

Spoiler

 [Redacted] "Friends, I would greatly encourage you to consider that there are 2 sides to every matter, and we should not only give voice to those in power (ministry), but to those who must be under it. So consider what these incredible men of Zambia have to sift through, discerning and confronting error from the great white missionary. It is a great risk for them. They are taking a stand. Don't shoot the messenger, until you listen carefully to what they have to say, too: 

(On the flip side, I hope friends of Handia will also consider Pastor John's side.)
 [The comment is then Handia's post, which is quoted upthread already. I'll conserve space and snip it.]

[The poster then responds to his own comment by tagging a few people, then stating this] many others...please consider these words. Do not use your position of power to Lord it over others, but to listen to and stand up for the most vulnerable."

*bolding mine

In other FB news, the bottom comment on Handia's page, calling Johnny a manipulator, has 4 likes. 

Spoiler

From Handia's page:

"[redacted] Unfortunately I am none too surprised.

[redacted]  It is about time someone showed him for what he truly is & put their foot down. He is a manipulator."

Fascinating!  

 

[clearingthingsup]

28 minutes ago, amandaaries said:

For those of you who are blocked, there's a new comment on John's FB page, under his plea for prayer from two days ago.  The comment has only been up an hour. For posterity's sake, I'll copy it here.

  Hide contents

 [Redacted] "Friends, I would greatly encourage you to consider that there are 2 sides to every matter, and we should not only give voice to those in power (ministry), but to those who must be under it. So consider what these incredible men of Zambia have to sift through, discerning and confronting error from the great white missionary. It is a great risk for them. They are taking a stand. Don't shoot the messenger, until you listen carefully to what they have to say, too: 

(On the flip side, I hope friends of Handia will also consider Pastor John's side.)
 [The comment is then Handia's post, which is quoted upthread already. I'll conserve space and snip it.]

[The poster then responds to his own comment by tagging a few people, then stating this] many others...please consider these words. Do not use your position of power to Lord it over others, but to listen to and stand up for the most vulnerable."

*bolding mine

In other FB news, the bottom comment on Handia's page, calling Johnny a manipulator, has 4 likes. 

  Reveal hidden contents

From Handia's page:

"[redacted] Unfortunately I am none too surprised.

[redacted]  It is about time someone showed him for what he truly is & put their foot down. He is a manipulator."

Fascinating!  

 

What was the name of the guy who posted the top comment? You can pm it to me if you're trying to give him privacy. I'm just curious if it's someone I know personally but I'm blocked. :/ I also love to know who he tagged!!

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

1 hour ago, clearingthingsup said:

What was the name of the guy who posted the top comment? You can pm it to me if you're trying to give him privacy. I'm just curious if it's someone I know personally but I'm blocked. :/ I also love to know who he tagged!!

I'll PM you 

it's still there as of right now 

[nokidsmom]

13 hours ago, Gobsmacked said:

Mr Keller deserves horsewhipping for the life he has ordained for at least two of his daughters. 

I have said it before and I say it again: Pa Keller bears a lot of responsibility for two daughters' marital situations.  If a father is indeed responsible for protecting his daughters, vetting the future husbands and transferring his "authority" at the wedding ceremony, then he bears some responsibility if the husband proves to be a loser and more so if he knows there are issues and blesses the union anyway.  Now I am no fan of the whole "headship" thing but if people are going to live by it then they should own it.  Pa Keller should be hanging his head in shame. 

And yes, I know this means that the Pecan Thief is a good choice in comparison and while I feel that his parents pushed him into marriage and I do question Pa Keller's choice here as well, PT has done better by Pris than Josh and John by their wives, relatively speaking.  Pris seems to be fairly happy, I can't say this for Anna and Esther who are slogging along because Jesus.

[KnittingOwl]

4 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

I have said it before and I say it again: Pa Keller bears a lot of responsibility for two daughters' marital situations.  If a father is indeed responsible for protecting his daughters, vetting the future husbands and transferring his "authority" at the wedding ceremony, then he bears some responsibility if the husband proves to be a loser and more so if he knows there are issues and blesses the union anyway.  Now I am no fan of the whole "headship" thing but if people are going to live by it then they should own it.  Pa Keller should be hanging his head in shame. 

And yes, I know this means that the Pecan Thief is a good choice in comparison and while I feel that his parents pushed him into marriage and I do question Pa Keller's choice here as well, PT has done better by Pris than Josh and John by their wives, relatively speaking.  Pris seems to be fairly happy, I can't say this for Anna and Esther who are slogging along because Jesus.

I have a hard time with this idea that David Waller is somehow the "best" of the Keller husbands.  Am I misremembering that the same thing was said of Josh a few years ago?  And we really have no idea how any of the Keller daughters feel about their husbands and living situations.  They might not even know themselves given how they were brought up.  

I agree that the Kellers are a good example of why courting and letting your father choose your spouse is a terrible plan.  Didn't one of his daughters get divorced and remarried?  That seems like such a taboo.  Not to mention, one daughter has a child and isn't married.  Not a problem for normal people, but I do wonder how that is perceived in the fundie community.  Are the Kellers looked down on by others because of how their daughters' relationships ended up?

[Palimpsest]

8 hours ago, Milly-Molly-Mandy said:

I'll PM you 

it's still there as of right now 

Has it been taken down because I can't find it?  Could someone PM the name to me too?  I want to know!

I did find this new comment on John's August 3 post. I don't remember this guy commenting before.  He's telling John to pull up his socks and fight.  

Spoiler

Quote

<redacted> Why do you think the LORD is trying to "break" you? Are you in sin, does the "pride" stem from an attitude of not needing him? When a soldier is in the heat of battle against his enemy, and he has confidence in his leadership, does he question why his leaders are trying to "break" him? You have breached the enemy's territory and he doesn't like it and is fighting back. Yes, our Father hates pride, pride that comes from a rebellious heart, pride that is against him. I don't understand believers who beat themselves up and blame their sin and pride when the battle gets hot. If we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to CLEANSE us from ALL unrighteousness. I believe your in the fight and you need his grace, not to be broken. Put on your armor and stand. Your his child, he knows you are flesh and pities you. Does he want you to rely on him more? Yes. Maybe that is what this is all about, learning to trust him more and rely on his grace.

 

 

[Palimpsest]

3 hours ago, KnittingOwl said:

I have a hard time with this idea that David Waller is somehow the "best" of the Keller husbands.  Am I misremembering that the same thing was said of Josh a few years ago?  And we really have no idea how any of the Keller daughters feel about their husbands and living situations.  They might not even know themselves given how they were brought up.  

I don't remember anyone saying that Josh Duggar was the best of the Keller husbands.  I do remember thinking (and perhaps saying) that Josh McDonald seemed the best of the bunch.  Josh McD may still have been the pick of the litter but I don't know why he and Rebekah divorced.  That disappointed me because the two of them were working their way out of Gothardism.  Who knows what happened there.  

Susannah is the daughter who is a single mother.  She lived with the McDs for a while when she was temporarily shunned by her parents because of the pregnancy.  Candace and Daniel Keller were also temporarily shunned when they married, taken back into the family, but have now divorced.

The Keller parents probably hang their heads in shame over Susannah and the divorces in the family, not the "successful" quiverfull marriages.

I completely agree we don't know how the Keller daughters feel.  Priscilla looks perfectly happy and seems to be living the dream of all nice Gothardite young ladies.  Anna was probably perfectly happy birthing babies and living in luxury until the truth about Josh came out.  She hasn't looked happy since then but she is doing her duty. Their expectations of marriage are to be the perfect submissive helpmeet, after all.

Similarly, Esther may be blissfully happy with her visionary "missionary" husband.   We project a lot of our feelings on to her. Esther may not care that she has to treat John like another child whenever he has a tantrum.  She's still perhaps living the dream of the submissive quiverfull wife and gets admiration for being a missionary as well.

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Has it been taken down because I can't find it?  Could someone PM the name to me too?  I want to know!

Yes, John took it down. I saw it yesterday, but can't remember the name. Someone PM it to me too! I really wish Handia would have tagged John instead of hashtagged so that it would have shown up on his feed. John loves tagging them to accuse them of stealing, lying and going to hell, but can't take it when criticism of him is shown. I do hope that at least some of the people who commented on that thread saw it. 

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

PM you both @Palimpsest and @formergothardite