Pris & TFDW 6: The Lookalike Family

[tabitha2]

The royal couple wisely stopped there as a 3rd C section was considered too dangerous. They surely wanted the prized male heir but not at that price.

[Jana814]

Just now, tabitha2 said:

The royal couple wisely stopped there as a 3rd C section was considered too dangerous. They surely wanted the prized male heir but not at that price.

Thanks for the information. It explains why they didn't go for the heir. 

[Bethella]

6 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

They surely wanted the prized male heir but not at that price.

While a male heir might have been desirable, at the time they were having children they were still the Duke and Duchess of York. There wasn't any reason to think that he would take the throne need a male heir. She was 36 when Edward abdicated, so they could have tried for another but it's probably a good think that they didn't.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I'm sure they always assumed his older brother would have children that would be heirs. 

I wish fundies would get it through their head that Not many people actually needed BC back in the day since death was their birth control :-/

[Carm_88]

16 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I wish fundies would get it through their head that Not many people actually needed BC back in the day since death was their birth control :-/

That would be nice. I don't think they realize how many children didn't make it to adulthood. It was far more likely to have 4 living children and 5 or 6 dead ones. Were there big families? Yep, but it was no guarantee. 

[MayMay1123]

my 4th great grandmother died in childbirth in 1822, her 5th child joseph died within days of her also. my 4th great grandfather then went on and remarried and had 13 more children. i know he married a third time, so he might have had even more children, but i haven't looked at that. his grandson, my 2nd great grandfather, and his wife had 5 children, only 3 made it to adulthood. clara was buried on what would have been her second birthday of pulmonary congestion (fluid in the lungs). Richard died at 13 years old of scarlet fever. my great grandfather (same line) and his wife had one child, a twin, die at birth, 8 others lived to adulthood. as the years go on, its obvious that each generation was healthier and lived better and longer. there are still no guarantees today, but the odds are certainly more in our favor now.

[EmiGirl]

My great grandmother died with her 16th birth taking the baby with her. The doctor told her not to get pregnant again, but my great grandfather didn't care and wouldn't let her take any precautions. 

[Georgiana]

Another interesting tidbit: 

One of the reasons European missionaries/explorers/colonials often found indigenous people "permiscuous" is because Europeans didn't understand the need for diversity in bloodlines, and many indigenous societies DID! 

Europeans interpreted it as a sign of their superiority, but in fact indigenous peoples knew that it was greatly beneficial to their overall society's health to incorporate the genes of visitors from distant lands...especially when the group was geographically isolated (such as island societies). 

Tahiti is a great example of this. Native American tribes often practiced this as well, and if you can get them, I think it is a riot to compare white and native accounts. 

[PennySycamore]

Going to an old cemetery and looking at the graves is pretty eye-opening.  So many children and so may young women!  I've known how bad thing were for children and women in the old days for about 50 years.  This may sound weird, but we used to like to play in the cemeteries in my hometown.  The Lutheran church cemetery had lots of graves of people who'd been born in Germany.  I remember finding the grave of the stillborn son of my 4th grade teacher on one of these trips through the cemetery.

 

[EmiGirl]

4 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

Going to an old cemetery and looking at the graves is pretty eye-opening.  So many children and so may young women!  I've known how bad thing were for children and women in the old days for about 50 years.  This may sound weird, but we used to like to play in the cemeteries in my hometown.  The Lutheran church cemetery had lots of graves of people who'd been born in Germany.  I remember finding the grave of the stillborn son of my 4th grade teacher on one of these trips through the cemetery.

 

Not weird at all. I love walking through old cemeteries and graveyards!!

[Carm_88]

34 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

Going to an old cemetery and looking at the graves is pretty eye-opening.  So many children and so may young women!  I've known how bad thing were for children and women in the old days for about 50 years.  This may sound weird, but we used to like to play in the cemeteries in my hometown.  

That's not weird at all. I love cemeteries as well and it's shocking to see how many young people are in them. I've gotten to the point that if I see a lamb on top of a white headstone that I know it's a child. I can't imagine how some families did it. 

[Hane]

2 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

That's not weird at all. I love cemeteries as well and it's shocking to see how many young people are in them. I've gotten to the point that if I see a lamb on top of a white headstone that I know it's a child. I can't imagine how some families did it. 

Every Good Friday we go to put flowers on the graves of our family members. There's as angel statue on the grave of my dad's three-year-old brother. It tugs at my heart every time I see it.

[tabitha2]

The ever present proximity to death was why the Victorians had such belief and obsession with mysticism, spiritualism, Mediums, Spirit photography , ETC  and had such a meticulous mourning/funeral  culture.  Little Ebenezer may have got Scarlett fever and died but the medium summoned him right?   He must be that streak in the photo of dear Mama then!  Maybe If I write these letters he can read them in the beyond...First Lady Jane Pierce wrote long pleading letters to her dead son 12 year old Benny the rest of her life. 

 

[ViolaSebastian]

Near my family's plot, there is a row of tiny headstones that belong to babies, without any first names. As kids, it stuck with us because the last name was Pigg, and we found it quite humorous. (The gravestones all said something like "Baby Pigg" or just "Pigg.") As an adult, I now realize that some poor mother lost six children before they were even old enough to be given names. 

[Carm_88]

My father has two siblings, babies, that were buried. A brother at 2 days old and a sister at less than a month old. As heartbreaking as that is, there's a plot near there and you just see all those lambs. For some reason, the children went picking berries on their own. Some of them were teens, so perhaps the parents wanted them out of their hair for a bit, when the children didn't come back; they went looking for them. They found them all on the marsh, dead. This was in a rural area in the early 20th century, so they don't know exactly what happened but the best guess is that they ate poisoned berries. Either way, it's a sad story. 

[PennySycamore]

My daughter is buried in one of those cemeteries with bronze markers.  Her marker has a lamb with some flowers on it.  Katherine  would have turned 30 on September 8.

I remember hearing about how George and Barbara Bush had lost a daughter about the same time that Katherine died.  There were a whole bunch of presidents that had  children that died.  I can't remember them all.  I think John and Abigail Adams lost a child. as @tabitha2 mentioned the Pierces did, FDR and Eleanor did, Ronald Reagan and Jane Wyman lost a premie daughter,  and the Lincolns lost two children, Willie and Edward.  Mary Todd Lincoln outlived her husband and three children, Tad dying at the age of 18 due to pleurisy or TB.  No wonder Mrs Lincoln was mentally ill later in life.  No woman should have to go through what she did.

[tabitha2]

Yes. The back of poor Benny Pierces head was torn off right in front of his mother . Jane Pierce was morbid and emotionally  frail both by nature and upbringing and having lost both of her other sons she never recovered. She devoutly believed angry God was punishing them. 

As to how they took it when children died well rough as it sounds they expected a certain amount of infant and toddler death.  God's will and all.  They loved and adored the living ones all the more. It's when all the children died mania like Mrs Pierces would set in.

 

 

 

[eveandadam]

On 26.7.2017 at 2:09 PM, LadyCrow1313 said:

This may have been brought up before, so apologies if this is the case, but do Fundies intermarry between the families so much that they start looking the same? (Or am I just imagining things?)

 

They are not related now, but who knows if they lose track of who married into who's family tree 1-3 generations from now it could get messy genetically. Loosing track is easy if there are that many children in each family. Tracking who is your first and second cousin, your first cousin once removed etc. can become really tricky if you have 12 siblings, 50 first cousins, 100 second cousins, 80 first cousins once removed, all within the same community, all and most importantly, all spread over 20 different families if the person who counts takes themselves as a reference point.

 

They need to start tracking now, otherwise there is a really high chance this will get out of hand.

[Foudeb]

It would be made more difficult by the age spans as well - Josh's first children are about the same age as Boob and DQ's last, meaning that their own kids will likely be around the same age, but will be more closely related that cousins would be.

With any luck by then enough of them will have left the fold that it won't matter - they can meet their significant others at a mainstream college somewhere far from home.

I strongly believe religion is a consequence of those high infant mortality rates. If the people you love most are statistically likely to be taken from you, you'd better believe that this is only a temporary separation and that you'll meet again in heaven someday. Makes it easier to carry on living.

[Carm_88]

David is slacking, no #Family. Also, is it normal to eat a cinnamon roll with a fork? 

[Gobsmacked]

Sticky fingers are not optional after eating cinnamon buns! David is a wuss. 

[GreyhoundFan]

I'm surprised it wasn't #homemade and #awesome. Paul is growing so fast.

[scoutsadie]

5 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

David is slacking, no #Family. Also, is it normal to eat a cinnamon roll with a fork? 

Ha, I noticed that lack of a hashtag, too... And they must not have enjoyed them #together, either!

As for the fork, eh, I would probably use one - sticky ain't my favorite thing.

[JermajestyDuggar]

We were talking about the genetic issues that pop up from marrying cousins for generations. If you go look at the Bontrager Bowers thread, you'll see a picture I posted of the Bontragers with some Hutterite girls. Two seem to have albinism. And I'm going to guess that it is a result of small gene pool Hutterite colonies have. 

[PennySycamore]

@JermajestyDuggar, those two girls do have albinism.  I don't suppose I should hope that those girls would be sent to public school so that their special visual needs would be attended to.  My granddaughter with albinism has special accommodations (e.g., monoculars, large print and so on) so she can do well in school.