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JinJer 28: Guns & Roses


Destiny

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Ah this dress is amazing, I wish I had the figure to wear a dress like that. Jinger looks fab. I never imagined a Duggar girl to look so stylish and sophisticated. This pic has me more impressed than any pants pic. 

I know the details of this wedding are largely unknown (mostly been quickly skimming through today, too busy) but weren't other Duggars also present at this wedding too? I thought the new wardrobe changes might be just for Texas away from family.

And there is no way you could make pregnancy speculation from this pic, way too dark  and up against Jeremy's dark suit. I think every pic is going to going to start baby rumours regardless, some fans are just obsessed with it.

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6 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

Thankyou a million times Irishy for introducing me (us) to Jim Jeffries. He is just pure dead brilliant. I've just spent the last hour watching all the clips that followed on from your link! Where has that man been hiding!! 

:bow-blue:. I'm off to google his next British tour. Hope it's soon, not light years away. 

He's great! If you have Netflix they have at least one of his specials and his tv show, Legit. He also has a new Comedy Central show where he comments on US politics.

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Just now, Rachel333 said:

He's great! If you have Netflix they have at least one of his specials and his tv show, Legit. He also has a new Comedy Central show where he comments on US politics.

Jim Jeffries is hilarious and I 2nd his Netflix special. It's 100% killer. I always love hearing an outsider's opinion on US politics and policies.

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So I feel super creepy doing this, but I zoomed in on that picture and drew a line where Jeremy and Jinger's clothes meet and... you still can't tell anything from just that picture. :pb_lol:

Fmi5BUm.png

 

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51 minutes ago, Dugg@rTime said:

<snip snip>

AmandaAries, regarding the changing of immigrants' names to more American or Anglicised names, this was unlikely to be part of some great mission to get rid of their heritage.*

When researching our family tree my aunt had some trouble at around the time period where many were emigrating to Canada,  late 1700's/early. 1800's iirc) and the individual family members illiteracy seems to be the main part of the problem.

For people getting off the boat with names sounding entirely foreign to the immigration clerks, what's the clerk to do if the person is illiterate, or doesn't have the English language skills to pass on the spelling of their name? The clerk records what he knows and is familiar with. Remember that the infrastructure of the day was not geared up for equal opportunities, and I don't imagine the working conditions or time constraints helped matters either.

*im not saying individual cases didn't occur, just that if my own family tree is anything to go by most name changes are not deliberate. Hanlon's razor and all that.

I'm going to try to reply to just this, and then stop beating this poor dead horse. 

I'd be cautious in underestimating the pressure to Americanize oneself as an immigrant, both then and now.  Many immigrants were told that their names were too complicated, even though they were literate and could spell those names (the Johansson example was from my family, and the people who came over were literate).  The pressure to become established in American society, with its racist undertones, led to many Anglicizing family names as well. It was at their own request, but due to what you said above, "the infrastructure of the day was not geared up for equal opportunities." Which is another way to state that structural and social racism were commonplace and pervasive, right?  Should we be proud of or encourage a deliberately racist society which shuns others for different last names?  Is that how we celebrate diversity?

@Four is Enough Just for the record, the USA includes Puerto Rico, Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, United States Virgin Islands and American Samoa; Hawaii and New Mexico both specifically include other languages as their state languages. Should all the protectorates abandon their native languages due to their American relationships (though everyone I've met from those areas has been bilingual)?

We've grown as a country because we've taken other lands.  Do we begrudge the French in Louisiana, though? Or do we save our prejudice for other languages? What's the difference?

  More importantly, in this day and age, when globalization is the way of the world and we need to work together to save it (hello, climate change!  and nuclear weapons, and everything else involved in diplomacy), why push for English-ONLY when it could be English-AND?  The more we promote monolingual, exclusive policies, the more we alienate ourselves.  Learning new languages helps people see the world differently ( http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03/speaking-second-language-may-change-how-you-see-world ) and understand things from a new perspective.  Asserting that there is only one language to use to experience the world or discuss events is so limiting, even and especially within a country as diverse as the USA. What do we need more than ever these days than to understand each other? Why close ourselves off linguistically and culturally from others? Is there something wrong with true diversity? 

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Just now, GnomeCat said:

 

Jim Jeffries is hilarious and I 2nd his Netflix special. It's 100% killer. I always love hearing an outsider's opinion on US politics and policies.

I agree, and apparently we're not alone in that! It's funny how, in addition to Jim Jefferies, many of the main political comics right now are from other countries. Samantha Bee is Canadian, John Oliver is British, and Trevor Noah is South African.

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5 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

He's great! If you have Netflix they have at least one of his specials and his tv show, Legit. He also has a new Comedy Central show where he comments on US politics.

Thankyou. I'm going to be very busy googling tonight!!

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9 minutes ago, Imaginary_Wonderland said:

Ah this dress is amazing, I wish I had the figure to wear a dress like that. Jinger looks fab. I never imagined a Duggar girl to look so stylish and sophisticated. This pic has me more impressed than any pants pic. 

She looks great and so stylish, one would never know of her frumper origins.  TBH, being with Jeremy she seems to be able to explore other clothing options but he himself seems to dress pretty classy.    I still think their wedding was the classiest hands down, no barefoot bride, no root beer floats in the parking lot,  it reflected their tastes, no doubt Jeremy's but Jinger seemed onboard with it all.  

Hey, Jinger, you may not have moved to the big city, but you seem to have gotten out of frumperdom for sure.

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@SapphireSlytherin

US immigration happens to be a bit of a specialty for me, and your post in the last thread has some factual inaccuracies that I couldn't resist correcting.

Clinton never gave amnesty to anyone. In fact, the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (also known as IRA IRA) significantly tightened immigration restrictions and enforcement, including ramping up border security and introducing concepts like the 10-year permanent ban where people who enter the US unlawfully ("illegally" in your parlance) must exit the country and wait for 10 years to apply for any new visa or green card (unless they obtain a special waiver, which is a difficult process that only a select few are even eligible for). 

Reagan gave amnesty in the 80s, but I'm not sure what happened to your husband in the Clinton era. 

Also, spousal visas aren't capped, so there would be no "getting sent to the back of the line." The application could be held up if your spouse had some kind of criminal record (such as a DUI), there was a lapse in paperwork, or if they had reason to suspect that the marriage wasn't legitimate (which unfortunately does happen to people in genuine relationships, especially if they try to apply for the green card without a lawyer and there's something like a major age gap).  

Also, back in the Ellis Island days, the immigration requirements were basically 1) be from Europe, preferably western Europe and 2) don't have tuberculosis...Things are a bit stricter these days. Even people applying through family members can wait decades for a green card (look here and you'll see that USCIS is currently processing family-sponsored applications that were submitted in the mid-90s for lower-priority relatives from the Philippines and from 2003-2005 for lower-priority relatives from China and India: https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/law-and-policy/bulletin/2017/visa-bulletin-for-august-2017.html). And there's no website where anyone can just apply to be a US citizen or permanent resident. 

It sounds like you're still upset about having to wait an extra year for your husband's green card sometime in the 90s...but I think you need to do some research before spreading misinformation on the Internet. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I agree, and apparently we're not alone in that! It's funny how, in addition to Jim Jefferies, many of the main political comics right now are from other countries. Samantha Bee is Canadian, John Oliver is British, and Trevor Noah is South African.

I think it maybe because Donald Trump writes his own comedy simply by getting out of bed in the morning. The rest of the world ( who have easy access to media and are not mired in horrible civil war and famine and their own awful problems) , appreciate the trouble that America is in right now. We feel for you. Truly. Comedy is a universally splendid way of attracting people who have never been very political, to the dangers of  Trumpism. The comedians mentioned are very intelligent people who can get the important message that Trump is bad and sad across to folk who may need that little nudge to help them think outside their usual small enclosed personal bubbles/boxes etc.

hope that makes sense?

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Jinger looks great! She looks super happy and I actually love the dress, not that I could pull it off! 

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1 minute ago, lomo6 said:

@SapphireSlytherin

Clinton never gave amnesty to anyone. In fact, the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (also known as IRA IRA) significantly tightened immigration restrictions and enforcement, including ramping up border security and introducing concepts like the 10-year permanent ban where people who enter the US unlawfully ("illegally" in your parlance) must exit the country and wait for 10 years to apply for any new visa or green card (unless they obtain a special waiver, which is a difficult process that only a select few are even eligible for). 

Reagan gave amnesty in the 80s, but I'm not sure what happened to your husband in the Clinton era. 

<snip>

I misspoke about Clinton, and I thank you for your correction - this is the event I was referring to in 2000: 

Quote

Congress in 1994 approved what was known as a Section 245(i) amnesty, which was used to pardon about 578,000 eligible illegal aliens who paid fines of $1,000 each, according to the Center for Immigration Studies. That amnesty was renewed in 1997 and again in 2000. The latter reinstatement resulted in amnesty for an estimated 900,000 illegal aliens, according to NumbersUSA.

 

2 minutes ago, lomo6 said:

@SapphireSlytherin

Also, spousal visas aren't capped, so there would be no "getting sent to the back of the line." The application could be held up if your spouse had some kind of criminal record (such as a DUI), there was a lapse in paperwork, or if they had reason to suspect that the marriage wasn't legitimate (which unfortunately does happen to people in genuine relationships, especially if they try to apply for the green card without a lawyer and there's something like a major age gap). 

<snip>

It sounds like you're still upset about having to wait an extra year for your husband's green card sometime in the 90s...but I think you need to do some research before spreading misinformation on the Internet.

Every phone call we made to the Dallas INS office resulted in our being told by employees there that the amnesty cases took priority over my husband's processing. Apparently, we were lied to, so again - I appreciate your correcting a misconception that has followed us all 18 years of our marriage.

And I figure you won't believe me, but my DH has zero criminal record (not even a speeding ticket) and never has. Our paperwork was always in order. Our marriage has always been 100% legitimate (and yes - we had to sit through the interrogation to prove it, along with providing family photos that showed we actually lived as husband/wife - Christmas, vacations, wedding, etc.). We're the same age.

And yeah, I'm upset it took almost three years to get something that should have been taken care of in less than half the time.

 

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16 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I agree, and apparently we're not alone in that! It's funny how, in addition to Jim Jefferies, many of the main political comics right now are from other countries. Samantha Bee is Canadian, John Oliver is British, and Trevor Noah is South African.

Man, you are so right! You've definitely listed some of my favorites to get political satire from!! I'd love to be best friends with Samantha Bee and I kind of have a bit of a crush on John Oliver.  I really miss Jon Stewart but I think Trevor Noah has done a pretty great job filling his shoes. Have you seen the President's Show on Comedy Central? It's also pretty great, the opening is my favorite when the introduce the president. "Please welcome the 45th and last President of the USA". Cracks me up every time. lol

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1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

There's no way anyone can see a bump in that picture. She's wearing a black dress and he's wearing a black suit. You can barely tell where his black material begins and hers ends. It's a black hole! 

It like a rip in the space time continuum 

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I really like Jinger's dress! It suits her very well and it's a dress I would actually have no problem wearing. Go Jinger!

 

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1 hour ago, karen77 said:

Sometimes you can...if they lived in castles!! (or manors, really)

Oh yeah, I want to make sure nobody thinks I'm claiming that you can't trace any family lines back to the 1300s (or even further) - you most definitely can! But all - or even most? Nope. Not a chance.

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On one side of my family there are some lines that trace back to British royalty in the 1400's or so, and then you can trace those back even farther. On the other side I haven't been able even to figure out who my great-great-great grandparents are!

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@Rachel333 Thank you for that black fabric line of demarcation. You can literally tell nothing from that photo. 

Sometimes I wish Jinger was pregnant so we could all just get it over with. The speculation is getting ridiculous.

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2 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

Sleeveless cocktail dress? With a SLIT!! She looks gorgeous!

 

@amandaaries said, pages ago:

'

My point wasn't that we need to Anglicize names, by any means. My point was that for some reason, it was done at American entries by American immigrations workers arbitrarily, or so it seemed, or even by immigrants themselves. 

Possible reasons were that "american" names were more anonymous, more "american", more glamorous? 

I find the loss of family names to be near tragic in scope. People can't find their ancestors or their real history

I just know that the changing of names seems to have happened on a fairly large scale.

I found this from the NYPL on he topic; I wanted to check something, and it turns out that I got the story wrong. Apparently, names were changed less often on an mass scale that the apocryphal accounts would have it

https://www.nypl.org/blog/2013/07/02/name-changes-ellis-island

 

tho it definitely happened, as this NY Times piece (New Life in U.S. No Longer Means New Name)

 describes:

Quote

 

If you are talking about 1910, the social forces on conformity were much stronger,” said Marian Smith, senior historian of the United States Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services, “whereas now an immigrant arrives with all these legal and identity documents, a driver’s license in their pocket, a passport, with one name on it. To change this is a big deal.”

Douglas S. Massey, a Princeton University sociologist, suggested that newcomers from overseas and their children no longer felt pressure to change their surnames beginning “during the 1970s and 1980s, as immigration became more a part of American life and the civil rights movement legitimated in-group pride as something to be cultivated.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/26/nyregion/26names.html

Quote

 “Jews and Italians changed their surnames in the past so that people wouldn’t identify them as Jews or Italians, the famous cases of course being movie stars. But if you look, phenotypically, nonwhite — East Asian, for example, or black — changing your last name is not going to make a difference. Betty Joan Perske became Lauren Bacall, and most people didn’t know she was Jewish; whatever name she used, Lena Horne was black.”

The advantages of not being identifiable as a Jewish or Italian immigrant in past eras is obvious.

The NYPL piece speaks of administrative officials changing names rather than the individuals, so that is a difference.

(Also per that NYT article, pretty much backing up your speculated reasons:)

Quote

The rationale was straightforward: adopting names that sounded more American might help immigrants speed assimilation, avoid detection, deter discrimination or just be better for the businesses they hoped to start in their new homeland.

The whole NYT article is good but this post is already monster-length, apologies

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1 hour ago, karen77 said:

Sometimes you can...if they lived in castles!! (or manors, really)

Or if you happen to luck out as I have.  John Adams and John Q Adams are on my tree!   Thanks to the American researchers who can't help but research the presidents to the ark if possible. 

 

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I'm related to most of the presidents, but not descended from any of them. Thanks, Nantucket.

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25 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

On one side of my family there are some lines that trace back to British royalty in the 1400's or so, and then you can trace those back even farther. On the other side I haven't been able even to figure out who my great-great-great grandparents are!

I have this too, although it's Scottish Royalty for me (1000'!) but trying to jump the pond to Ireland in the 1800's... not happening (although that is probably there SOMEWHERE, but not finding it yet)

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Even though Jeremy has trash views about basically everything, I think a positive from their relationship is her a-game fashion choices, especially as of late!

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Well Jinger is way closer to normalizing Duggar fundie-dom than any of her relations in that dress! She looks great and more importantly, happy in that pic. Some fashion freedom is at least one means she has of expressing herself- which is a benefit of her situation over her siblings who still seem totally repressed. Its nice to see her in a range of different types of clothes. (Obviously that doesn't mean anything substantial about her beliefs have changed). 

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5 minutes ago, candygirl200413 said:

Even though Jeremy has trash views about basically everything, I think a positive from their relationship is her a-game fashion choices, especially as of late!

I think Jinger has always been way more interested in fashion/more willing to be somewhat adventurous with her clothing choices than her sisters, and being married has given her more freedom in that department. Jeremy seems to be somewhat interested in fashion as well, so I'm sure he encourages her. It seems to be something that brings her a lot of enjoyment, so I'm happy she's able to embrace that.

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