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"I Kissed Dating Goodbye" author is crowdfunding a documentary on the impact of his book


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What annoys me about Josh is the weasel words.  He says he feels contrite but defensive yada yada.  I expect there are a few people pissed off by Josh Harris.  Some true believers in courtship may be annoyed by his "questioning" his book but I think he was probably exaggerating. I think others may be annoyed with him for other reasons. 

He is weaseling out of taking responsibility for past actions yet again.  He will probably never address fully what went down at Covenant Life. 

He did rather burn his boats with Sovereign Grace and Covenant Life so I am sure they are annoyed with him.  I've always found the timeline interesting.

Resigns from the board of Sovereign Grace 2011:   http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/2011/07/14/joshua-harris-steps-down-from-sovereign-grace-ministries-board/

Covenant Life leaves SGM 2012:  (I like Brent's commentary here)   http://www.brentdetwiler.com/brentdetwilercom/joshua-harris-asks-covenant-life-church-to-leave-sovereign-g.html

And then in May, 2013:  http://www.patheos.com/blogs/pilgrimsroadtrip/2013/05/he-kissed-the-secret-of-his-childhood-sexual-abuse-goodbye/ 

But a month later Brent takes him apart again because he's still trying to delay questions f about the sexual abuse and how it was handled.  He knew about the conspiracy and was part of it.   http://www.brentdetwiler.com/brentdetwilercom/joshua-harris-covenant-life-pastors-put-off-questions-about.html

Joshua Harris is a "gifted communicator" who concedes "mistakes" long after they are obvious to everyone, but then says nothing was really his fault.  'Cos reasons.  And he packs on the charm.

IMO, he is just reinventing himself yet again.  I found that Ted Talk extremely narcissistic.

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4 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I found that Ted Talk extremely narcissistic.

Josh is & always has been mostly about Josh with a bit of Jesus tacked on as a sales maneuver. Not surprising, considering two of his main role models are his father, Gregg Harris, and C.J. Mahaney.

 

 

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My take of the Ted Talk is that Josh is super bummed people don't love him anymore and stopped taking his advice so he decided to rebrand and admit that he was wrong(sort of, none of it was REALLY his fault) so that people will love him and take his advice. 

I get the impression that if in the future his early books come back into favor he will hop right back on that bandwagon. 

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17 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I get the impression that if in the future his early books come back into favor he will hop right back on that bandwagon. 

He is not stupid.  He'll also say anything, I suspect, to get back into a spotlight.  Any spotlight.

I get the impression that he knows he has burned many Fundie bridges and too much scandal dogs his path.  His accredited theological seminary has given him the idea that he can use his pastoring "talents" with more mainstream churches.  Thus he drops a reference to evolution into this Ted Talk to make him seems less of a nutty Fundie creationist.

He comes over as an opportunist more than anything else.

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10 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

...caterpillar smoothie...

I'm having a flashback to my youth. Gross story under the spoiler.

Spoiler

Our big oak tree had an invasion of caterpillars. (Maybe tent caterpillars?) Our neighbor took a bunch of the caterpillars and blended them up in her blender. Then she took the resulting liquid and sprayed it on the tree. The next year, we didn't have any caterpillars. I guess they got the message? 

If Josh is a caterpillar smoothie, I'm staying far, far away from him. Ick!

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8 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

If Josh is a caterpillar smoothie, I'm staying far, far away from him. Ick!

The caterpillar smoothie thing was a direct quote.  

And that story was gross!

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1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

And that story was gross!

Yeah, sorry. Hopefully the spoiler will protect anyone who is vulnerable to gross stuff. :puke-huge:

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This article from the CBC has been  brought up in the Roy Moore thread, but should also be included here since one of the people interviewed specifically references I Kissed Dating Goodbye:

Quote

 

According to people who saw it firsthand, the courtship phenomenon in fundamentalist communities appears to have gained wider prominence in the late 1990s after the publication of Joshua Harris's 1997 book I Kissed Dating Goodbye

Often cited as a “wisdom manual,” this bestseller helped codify courtship practices and launched a movement beyond a few fringe pastors. Among other things, Harris’s book suggests casually dating a range of people is "a training ground for divorce" and akin to “giving away pieces of your heart.”

Morton remembers her friends poring over Harris’s book in the early 2000s.

“Everyone around me was reading it, all the kids got into it,” Morton said. “It got quite threaded into the fundamentalism that I saw.”

 

ETA: Well, well, well -- talk about revisionist history (from the CBC article):

Quote

The Chapmans have since distanced themselves from the movement. Reached by phone in Texas, Matthew Chapman denied endorsing courtship and declined to speak on the record.

 

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Of course Matthew Chapman said they didn't advocate for courtship. They were proponents of "betrothal " which meant dad told you a guy was going to marry you, you had no say and there often wasn't a getting-to-know-you period. In Chapman's mind (yes, I've met him), courtship and betrothal are entirely different things and Harris 's approach was unscriptural.

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Plus there’s the “child bride” aspect of betrothal.
Of course Chapman isn’t into courtship. It might infer that the girl has a say, or even that it might be reversible. Don’t they get legally married first, THEN get to know one another?
Remind me, how old were the Chapmans when Maranatha was sold...I mean married?

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On 12/11/2017 at 9:31 AM, bea said:

Remind me, how old were the Chapmans when Maranatha was sold...I mean married?

Maranatha was 15 and Matthew was 28 when they got married.

On 12/11/2017 at 9:31 AM, bea said:

Don’t they get legally married first, THEN get to know one another?

Maranatha's father, Stan Owen, had been mentoring Matthew for at least two years before they got engaged, so they knew each other to some extent.

Quote

Stan wanted to do things as they were done in the Bible, when betrothal was legally binding. Therefore, on February 22, 1988, just over a month after Matthew’s proposal and Maranatha’s acceptance, the two were legally married at the courthouse. Maranatha continued to live in her father’s home until her official “wedding” day, which, although she was already legally married, would be when she would begin her married life.

The summer of 1988, Stan decided that Maranatha was ready. In the six or so months since Matthew’s proposal and Maranatha’s acceptance, Matthew had prepared a home for them to live in and Maranatha had sewed a wedding dress. After dinner one day, Stan unexpectedly and without prior warning informed Matthew and Maranatha that the time was fast approaching. But Stan wanted to reenact the Biblical story of Jesus as bridegroom and the Church as his bride, so he did not give either Matthew or Maranatha a date.

Immediately after Stan’s surprise announcement, Maranatha was taken by her family members to the home of another Christian family. There Maranatha waited for Matthew to come and claim her. Every day between 3 pm and midnight she dressed in her wedding dress and sat with her suitcase, waiting. Finally, at long last, Stan told Matthew that the day had arrived, and Matthew came to the house where Maranatha was staying, claimed her, and took her to a surprise wedding feast Stan had prepared, complete with guests, singing, and dancing. The couple then left on their honeymoon and began their married life.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/12/the-rest-of-the-maranatha-story.html

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So, so horrible. I can't even imagine. What s the biblical reasoning for Stan getting to choose when Matthew got married? That is so incredibly controlling. And if I remember correctly Maranatha and Matthew's daughter was also married of when she was 15 or 16. 

I remember being horrified when I first read about their story back in the 90s, but now that I've had girls that age I think it's a clear case of abuse. 

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@Anonymousguest Lauren got married at 16 (the laws had changed increasing the legal marriage age). I think the only reason for Stan getting to choose was his desire to reenact the Biblical story of Jesus as bridegroom and the Church as his bride (aka showing that he was Maranatha's headship and he got to make the decisions).

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2 hours ago, Bethella said:

I think the only reason for Stan getting to choose was his desire to reenact the Biblical story of Jesus as bridegroom and the Church as his bride (aka showing that he was Maranatha's headship and he got to make the decisions).

That and the fact that both Stan & Matthew are total ass-wipes.:tw_angry:

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Immediately after Stan’s surprise announcement, Maranatha was taken by her family members to the home of another Christian family. There Maranatha waited for Matthew to come and claim her. Every day between 3 pm and midnight she dressed in her wedding dress and sat with her suitcase, waiting. 

 That sounds so damaging. I'm sorry, but that's just evil. What kind of roller coaster they put the helpless young girl into.... so sick. And this happened to her own daughter too?

Makes me want to puke.

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