Michael and Brandon Keilen Part 3

[Snarkle Motion]

On 8/9/2017 at 2:50 PM, justoneoftwo said:

From a legal perspective a miscarriage is usually not caused by a person's actions, so could usually not be a crime.  You need to actually do the act which causes the death (pull the trigger, push a person, basically physically do something).  Most miscarriages are due to fetal non viability (I think) so no other person did any action which caused it.  

To be fair, this requirement seems to be under attack in several places so it may not remain.

You are assuming we are dealing with rational people. The people pushing this legislation will look for any potential reason the woman could be blamed. 

[neurogirl]

But miscarriage affects fundies too (Rodrigues, Bates, Duggar for sure). Michelle's very public miscarriage with Jubilee would have to fall under the same laws, so even though some very terrible men without familial experience of pregnancy loss might want to legislate it, I truly don't think they would ever be successful. 

[Melissa1977]

6 hours ago, neurogirl said:

But miscarriage affects fundies too (Rodrigues, Bates, Duggar for sure). Michelle's very public miscarriage with Jubilee would have to fall under the same laws, so even though some very terrible men without familial experience of pregnancy loss might want to legislate it, I truly don't think they would ever be successful. 

I don't think this law is meant for strangers trying to get miscarrying women prosecuted, but for giving their husband and family an incredible power over them. A sexist legislation can consider husband's opinion more valuable than wife's or accept whatever evidence he gives on the trial. 

[JesusCampSongs]

On 8/10/2017 at 3:41 PM, Jess said:

One of my relatives posts a ton of embryo adoption propaganda I am sure if she could afford it she would be trying to do that...

I think Snowflake Adoption (seriously, that's what they call it, and I find it uproariously hilarious in light of their beliefs) is pretty nutty, personally, but it's probably a more viable and less expensive option than using donor eggs/sperm during an IVF cycle. 

[Jess]

13 minutes ago, JesusCampSongs said:

I think Snowflake Adoption (seriously, that's what they call it, and I find it uproariously hilarious in light of their beliefs) is pretty nutty, personally, but it's probably a more viable and less expensive option than using donor eggs/sperm during an IVF cycle. 

Relative from the story has four children under 6 of her own. She is just nutty about saving the embryos. But I guess yeah I could get it for a couple who is struggling to conceive.

[anjulibai]

I read an article a few years ago about a couple that did embryo adoption and their relationship with the couple that donated the embryos. They all ended up meeting so their children could get to know their siblings. Then the two couples bonded over their shared infertility struggles. The first coupled talked about how grateful they were to the donor couple because they wouldn't have been able to afford full IVF. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

On 8/11/2017 at 8:09 PM, JesusCampSongs said:

I think Snowflake Adoption (seriously, that's what they call it, and I find it uproariously hilarious in light of their beliefs) is pretty nutty, personally, but it's probably a more viable and less expensive option than using donor eggs/sperm during an IVF cycle. 

It's a lot cheaper. My clinic will do two embryos for $9000.

[Rachel333]

There's a blog, thehelpmates.com, where one of them did embryo adoption due to infertility. I think it can be a good option, but the rhetoric about saving the embryos (which they insist are equivalent to full human beings) annoys me.

[OyToTheVey]

Might sound conservative of me but I can't imagine giving my embryos to another couple and them having that child. It's not something I would ever do. Child adoption is one thing but giving up a child before it's even born isn't for me.

That said I'm also a huge supporter of stem cell research. I would donate the embryos for science purposes. I've seen what it does for CP patients. I'm all for helping people live their daily lives. 

[elliha]

4 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

Might sound conservative of me but I can't imagine giving my embryos to another couple and them having that child. It's not something I would ever do. Child adoption is one thing but giving up a child before it's even born isn't for me.

That said I'm also a huge supporter of stem cell research. I would donate the embryos for science purposes. I've seen what it does for CP patients. I'm all for helping people live their daily lives. 

I am probably the opposite. I really cannot see myself giving a child up for adoption volontarily but embryos that have never been inside me as embryos (only as eggs) would have little value to me and if someone else wanted them, sure, you can have them. They would share my DNA but I would not see them as children. I would however feel a bit iffy about letting some scientist use them for experiments. I would probably be OK with it if they didn't ask and I never knew but I don't think I could actively let someone use them for anything but perhaps making a baby.

[Jess]

I am not handle putting a child up for adoption or donating embryos. I would be fine with donating them to research. 

[Carm_88]

Second anniversary for Brandon and Michael.

[Mela99]

I liked that Brandon went skydiving to celebrate

[Kangaroo]

4 hours ago, Mela99 said:

I liked that Brandon went skydiving to celebrate

In the comments Michael mentioned she went skydiving when she was 18. That was very surprising for me to read!

[BeccaGrim]

On 8/18/2017 at 5:13 PM, Kangaroo said:

In the comments Michael mentioned she went skydiving when she was 18. That was very surprising for me to read!

Duggars do this too. They go at 18. 

[speller24]

 I couldn't give up my child for adoption, but my embryos are up for grabs. I'm a gift, please make more of me lol I kid about that, but my embryos I wouldn't have an issue giving up if it would help somebody  raise and love a child. 

[singsingsing]

For anyone reading this who may be seriously considering donating embryos, eggs, or sperm, please very carefully consider the implications. Do a lot of research. Read about the experiences of donors and donor-conceived children. Are you prepared for the possible emotional repercussions? Maybe more importantly, do you know how you would handle the relationship with your biological child? Some places won't let you be anonymous. Even if you do donate anonymously, it's becoming very, very easy for adult adoptees to track down their biological parents through DNA testing. You may feel no connection to the biological material you donated which helped create this human being, but said human being may well feel differently. It may be an easy thing for you, but knowing who you are, meeting you, even having some form of a relationship with you, may turn out to be something very important to the person to whom you gave life.

I'm not saying don't do it. Just don't treat it casually. 

[Kangaroo]

3 hours ago, BeccaGrim said:

Duggars do this too. They go at 18. 

So wearing pants and being strapped to a stranger while jumping out of a plane is fine, but showing knees while in your own home is not...

Well at least they got the opportunity! Sky diving is not something I'd be comfortable doing!

[speller24]

17 hours ago, Kangaroo said:

So wearing pants and being strapped to a stranger while jumping out of a plane is fine, but showing knees while in your own home is not...

Well at least they got the opportunity! Sky diving is not something I'd be comfortable doing!

I thought the same thing when I saw the episode. There have been a few times over the years where I have looked at both families and said, OH sure! This is ok, but pants are oh so terrible! yikes. 

[Flossie]

On 8/21/2017 at 3:40 PM, singsingsing said:

For anyone reading this who may be seriously considering donating embryos, eggs, or sperm, please very carefully consider the implications. Do a lot of research. Read about the experiences of donors and donor-conceived children. Are you prepared for the possible emotional repercussions? Maybe more importantly, do you know how you would handle the relationship with your biological child? Some places won't let you be anonymous. Even if you do donate anonymously, it's becoming very, very easy for adult adoptees to track down their biological parents through DNA testing. You may feel no connection to the biological material you donated which helped create this human being, but said human being may well feel differently. It may be an easy thing for you, but knowing who you are, meeting you, even having some form of a relationship with you, may turn out to be something very important to the person to whom you gave life.

I'm not saying don't do it. Just don't treat it casually. 

I wrote a post on the Jingerites Who are TTC, Pt. 4 back in May about something I read on embryo donation back when it was a new thing.  In that case, the couple donating the embryo's were semi-anonymous, but took into consideration that their donation would probably result in at least one genetic sibling that their children would need to be aware of.

http://www.freejinger.org/topic/29447-jingerites-who-are-ttc-pt-4/?do=findComment&comment=1371733

 

[AnnEggBlandHer?]

On 8/21/2017 at 6:40 PM, singsingsing said:

For anyone reading this who may be seriously considering donating embryos, eggs, or sperm, please very carefully consider the implications. Do a lot of research. Read about the experiences of donors and donor-conceived children. Are you prepared for the possible emotional repercussions? Maybe more importantly, do you know how you would handle the relationship with your biological child? Some places won't let you be anonymous. Even if you do donate anonymously, it's becoming very, very easy for adult adoptees to track down their biological parents through DNA testing. You may feel no connection to the biological material you donated which helped create this human being, but said human being may well feel differently. It may be an easy thing for you, but knowing who you are, meeting you, even having some form of a relationship with you, may turn out to be something very important to the person to whom you gave life.

I'm not saying don't do it. Just don't treat it casually. 

I did 5 cycles of egg donation, resulting in over 130 eggs donated and at least one child. (I only found out about that by mistake when I was updating a section of my donor profile and saw that my first cycle had resulted in a successful pregnancy.)

I have a 1 year old now, and he looks like my clone, and nothing like his father. Sometimes I wonder how many little mini-me babies are running around out there! I don't consider them 'mine' in any way because they have my DNA, just like I wouldn't love my son any less if he didn't. I did it for the karma and for the money. I 100% would do it again. I would love to meet the children and the families if it's what they wish, and I am happy to stay anonymous too. 

I do agree however that it's NOT for everyone, and am happy to answer questions about my experience if anyone has any! 

As far as Michael and Brandon, I very seriously doubt they would ever go the IVF route. And even less likely with donor sperm/eggs  

[singsingsing]

20 minutes ago, AnnEggBlandHer? said:

I would love to meet the children and the families if it's what they wish, and I am happy to stay anonymous too. 

Honestly, you sound like exactly the sort of person who should donate. Thank you for your openness and thoughtfulness!

[zygote373]

4 hours ago, AnnEggBlandHer? said:

I did 5 cycles of egg donation, resulting in over 130 eggs donated and at least one child.

That's awesome! I always wanted to do this. I absolutely don't want to raise kids but think it would be cool to have descendants out there in the world. (Egotistical of me? I don't know.) I would be curious to meet them and see how they turned out, but would also be happy to stay anonymous if that's what they wanted.

I never heard back the first place I applied, not sure why. I am guessing it's to do with family medical history. Lots of little treatable things that aren't a big deal in the long run, but I can see why that could turn people off. Even though there are a lot of good traits that run in the family too.

Anyway, I had to have surgery on a giant ovarian cyst when I was 23 and the doctor advised against doing any kind of donation after that. She was concerned that the follicle stimulation drugs would give me more cysts.

[Rachel333]

1 hour ago, zygote373 said:

Anyway, I had to have surgery on a giant ovarian cyst when I was 23 and the doctor advised against doing any kind of donation after that. She was concerned that the follicle stimulation drugs would give me more cysts.

I've read that there are women who have health issues like cysts that they believe are a result of egg donation. There may be risks to the donor with egg donation, but there is very little data. https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/28/egg-donors-risks/ Whether it is risky or not, I think more information is always better.

[Nikedagain?]

On 8/21/2017 at 6:40 PM, singsingsing said:

For anyone reading this who may be seriously considering donating embryos, eggs, or sperm, please very carefully consider the implications. Do a lot of research. Read about the experiences of donors and donor-conceived children. Are you prepared for the possible emotional repercussions? Maybe more importantly, do you know how you would handle the relationship with your biological child? Some places won't let you be anonymous. Even if you do donate anonymously, it's becoming very, very easy for adult adoptees to track down their biological parents through DNA testing. You may feel no connection to the biological material you donated which helped create this human being, but said human being may well feel differently. It may be an easy thing for you, but knowing who you are, meeting you, even having some form of a relationship with you, may turn out to be something very important to the person to whom you gave life.

I'm not saying don't do it. Just don't treat it casually. 

Thank you for saying this! I am a birth mother who was "reunited" ( I hate that term ) with her child when she turned 18. It was a closed adoption. Nothing prepares you for this. There was no handbook to follow. All a very weird, undefined place.