Jana's Future 5 - The More Things Seem to Change...

[CarrotCake]

Wow, @Marly, that is an interesting story.

So your great-aunt and -uncle lived together until he died? Imagine the man wanting to get married but does not want to leave his sister alone (or the other way around)... hopefully that never happens.

But I guess that this could indeed be how the fundies would react to a case like this. Grandma Mary does not live in the TTH anymore right? What would JB think of her living by herself?

[ElToro]

On 05/11/2017 at 9:33 PM, singsingsing said:

 How would they approach a courtship between older, widowed or divorced people? I honestly don't know

Hmmmm. How do they get around the fact that pieces of their hearts have already been given away? Do those heart-pieces count for nothing if the partner dies? Or does Jesus replenish the heart so that they can start giving new pieces afresh..... like an all-day buffet?

And what happens when they all get to heaven? Could be very awkward.... or really kinky....I

(And I may have been flippant, but part of this question is a genuine desire to know how the fundamentalists spin it- from someone whose partner died but who is now happily married....)

[singsingsing]

Just now, ElToro said:

Hmmmm. How do they get around the fact that pieces of their hearts have already been given away? Do those heart-pieces count for nothing if the partner dies? Or does Jesus replenish the heart so that they can start giving new pieces afresh..... like an all-day buffet?

And what happens when they all get to heaven? Could be very awkward.... or really kinky....I

(And I may have been flippant, but part of this question is a genuine desire to know how the fundamentalists spin it- from someone whose partner died but who is now happily married....)

That's actually not their view on 'giving away pieces of your heart'. 'Giving away pieces of your heart' tends to be a euphemism for sexual (or at least physical, and sometimes intense emotional) intimacy before marriage which, in their view, creates an artificially strong emotional bond, ending in broken hearts, cynicism, distrust in future relationships, and so on. If your spouse dies, you're obviously going to mourn them, but it's not the same as being 'damaged' by a 'sinful' relationship. And while they strongly encourage people to court and to abstain from most forms of physical intimacy before marriage, having broken relationships doesn't actually preclude someone from getting married.

As for people with multiple spouses in Heaven, according to Jesus there is no 'male or female' in Heaven, and no one is given in marriage. Many people interpret that to mean no marriage, no sex, no emphasis on gender - which, come to think of it, must be hard for fundies to accept! - so having multiple spouses there wouldn't be awkward.

[ElToro]

Ah! I always wondered why it mattered that you 'gave your heart pieces' to the person you were marrying anyway.... Surely they'd be the best person to keep them safe?!

... Mind you, I've 'given' a lot of 'pieces of my heart' (and other parts of my anatomy) to a fair few different people*, so what do I know? I still found it odd that the Jill'n'Dwreck needed a chaperone on the morning of their wedding, in the church where they were getting married.

*I'm hoping not all of them make it to heaven. I don't think I'd enjoy eternity quite as much with those assholes..... genderless, or not.

[KelseyAnn]

My Grandma was super Catholic and her first five children with one man, when he died she still had all five kids at home and most were still really young. So she felt she had to get married straight away. She married the man who lived next door months later and quickly popped out another five. 

I bet it's the same with widowed fundies with small children- they get pressured into marrying again so they have someone to help raise the kids the right way. And if the women don't work, which fundie women don't, they NEED another paycheck coming in. 

[snickers34]

5 minutes ago, KelseyAnn said:

And if the women don't work, which fundie women don't, they NEED another paycheck coming in. 

That makes me wonder - do these families typically have life insurance? Or do they have some Jesusy reason for not getting it? I mean of all the people that need it, my gosh these families do - wife with typically no work skills (no offense to them but if you've never had a job ever, yeesh that makes it tough to get your foot in the water) plus 47 kids? Zoinks.

[JordynDarby5]

Very common back then. For widowers and widows. My great-grandmother's mother died when she was young, her father felt he need to marry because he had five young kids. He had a choice between his wife's sister or his wife's best friend he decided on the latter. They had a bunch of kids together. Of course it wasn't uncommon for widowers to marry their sisters-in-law either.  

[cascarones]

@snickers34 Yes, they usually carry life insurance. Since many are self employed under the "work for no other man" idea, they also tend to have small group Christian based health insurance or "cost shares". Depending on the group it doesn't cover health insurance, mental illness, substance issues, etc and often has a clause that your coverage can be denied if you're not involved at your church/ require proof. I kid you not, you can need a pastor/priest's note to use the insurance assuring them how godly you are.  Some of the cost shares let you pick who your monthly portion of "sharing" goes to, so it becomes a medical bill popularity contest.

[Karma]

10 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

. Of course it wasn't uncommon for widowers to marry their sisters-in-law eithe

I found in my family tree research, that my great great grandmother’s mother had died young, leaving maybe 10 children.  Her father quickly married a much younger woman (only a few years older than the eldest son).  She bore him 5 kids before he died.  I never found a marriage certificate, but it appears she then had more children with her oldest stepson...

[ladybug15]

11 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

Very common back then. For widowers and widows. My great-grandmother's mother died when she was young, her father felt he need to marry because he had five young kids. He had a choice between his wife's sister or his wife's best friend he decided on the latter. They had a bunch of kids together. Of course it wasn't uncommon for widowers to marry their sisters-in-law either.  

My father's in law step mom is his aunt (mom's sister). and that was in the 50s in Europe.

[cascarones]

2 hours ago, cascarones said:

Depending on the group it doesn't cover health insurance birth control, mental illness, substance issues, etc and often has a clause that your coverage can be denied if you're not involved at your church/ require proof.

Quoting myself since i'ts past editing time frame. Why you shouldn't write posts at 3 am  If you're curious the companies I know people using are Samaritan and Medi-Share. It's open enrollment season for insurance in the US, figured I'd share the info, since a new mom friend is trying to figure out if they should also get actual health insurance over/in addition to the Christian "cost share" plan they have through his work. 

[Tom Slick]

I don't know if this goes here? If not mods please remove it.

I don't know if this is anything at all but it was dated yesterday.

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/jana-duggar-boyfriend-146270 

[beepy13]

There's been so much speculation that I don't think I'll believe anything until I see actual wedding photos...

[AnnaRuk09]

In Dec of 2015 I remember the media speculated that Jana was possibly in a relationship with austin simply because he was seen singing with the Duggar fam. And that infamous time Tebow’s mom was at the Duggar’s house (without Tim) and fans/media thought they were freaking getting married.

The fans/media have made up dozens and dozens of stories like this recent one simply because of some simple pics. So far they’ve all amounted to pure lies and crap. Just because some 22 year old chubby kid has been kissing the fam’s ass and posting it on social media doesn’t mean shit. He’s just enjoying all the attention. 

[llg1234]

2 hours ago, AnnaRuk09 said:

/snipped

Just because some 22 year old chubby kid has been kissing the fam’s ass and posting it on social media doesn’t mean shit. He’s just enjoying all the attention. 

If I could up vote this a million times, I would. The Duggars are Z-list celebrities, at best, but that doesn't make them immune to hang-ons. If someone constantly kisses their asses, it doesn't mean they are only interested in their theological beliefs. Most likely, they agree on the major stuff and want expand their personal brand/get attention. Anyone who claims to be close with the Duggars (or Bates) and speaks about them publicly should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

[snickers34]

6 hours ago, Tom Slick said:

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/jana-duggar-boyfriend-146270 

Nope. There's a whole separate thread that popped up around the time that his photo was on the Duggar official page, where's it is all well documented how silly, unfounded, and unlikely this all is. 

[Carm_88]

They really have nothing to talk about do they? Wow. 

[Lurky]

I never know how to phrase this, but given how slimy the Fundy world can be about marrying daughters off early, I always worry that young men aren't hanging round the house hoping to be thought of as a future husband of Johannah when she's 17.   Not saying they are attracted to her now, at all, but she's a pretty Fundy maiden from a TV family, and I can imagine one of the teen boys who's around lot might have a "why not Johannah?" moment when they're in their 20s, like Austin did with Joy.

I just hope the younger girls have more opportunities than their older sisters did.

[jqlgoblue]

@Marly I have similar stories in the Irish/Italian Catholic side of my family that go to current day.

My mom's cousin lived with his mom until she died, when he was about 60, and then he went to live with a girlfriend we never knew he had! So, he'd basically never gotten married to this woman b/c he felt like he couldn't leave his mother!

My mom also has two other female cousins (sisters) who live together and have never married. My aunt and uncle have also never married (2/6 kids), and he looks after my aunt now that my grandparents are gone. Thankfully none of the siblings would think of allowing her to move in with them... though she would definitely prefer that. She lived with my grandparents until she was 40.

In some sense I get it b/c living alone can be lonely and you've lived with siblings/parents your entire life so there is some comfort and inertia in that. That said, I do wonder about co-dependence and emotional bonds that don't leave the space for finding a spouse. Of course, if you don't want that, fine... but if you do, then it's unfortunate.

In Jana's case she is used to slotting in to a sibling's family, she has done it a lot with Josh and Anna. I have a hard time thinking any of her sister's would have too much to say, after all she ran the house they grew up in. I think it would be OK. Alternatively, I'm not sure any of the siblings would have a problem with her living at and running the TTH and it being a day care for the next two generations until the day she dies. Probably one of the families would be living there at any given time anyway, it's basically a compound. Let's hope for her sake this doesn't happen though.

[MakeItSo]

I came across an article on FB about Jana talking about how there is a rumour surrounding Jana that one of the littles is actually her child and that is why she hasn't left the TTH yet... I was just sitting there like, alright...which one of our FJers came up with that one before it was picked up by some trash gossip site? 

Disclaimer: I did not read the article. I merely read the title.

[Sky with diamonds]

On 11/10/2017 at 9:04 AM, Carm_88 said:

They really have nothing to talk about do they? Wow. 

Other than courtship, weddings, babies and Derick's ugly tweets...nope. Nothing, so I guess maybe trying to shift the attention to Jana? 

On 11/12/2017 at 2:20 PM, Lurky said:

I never know how to phrase this, but given how slimy the Fundy world can be about marrying daughters off early, I always worry that young men aren't hanging round the house hoping to be thought of as a future husband of Johannah when she's 17.   Not saying they are attracted to her now, at all, but she's a pretty Fundy maiden from a TV family, and I can imagine one of the teen boys who's around lot might have a "why not Johannah?" moment when they're in their 20s, like Austin did with Joy.

I just hope the younger girls have more opportunities than their older sisters did.

I sure hope Johanna won't be pushed into a relationship before she's ready. I wouldn't put it past Jim Bob and Michelle. 

[nastyhobbitses]

On 11/7/2017 at 6:03 AM, cascarones said:

@snickers34 Yes, they usually carry life insurance. Since many are self employed under the "work for no other man" idea, they also tend to have small group Christian based health insurance or "cost shares". Depending on the group it doesn't cover health insurance, mental illness, substance issues, etc and often has a clause that your coverage can be denied if you're not involved at your church/ require proof. I kid you not, you can need a pastor/priest's note to use the insurance assuring them how godly you are.  Some of the cost shares let you pick who your monthly portion of "sharing" goes to, so it becomes a medical bill popularity contest.

Considering how petty I'm sure people in very small fundamentalist churches/insular fundamentalist communities can get, I would be about 0% surprised if at least one person died from a completely preventable cause because people in the "cost sharing" scheme didn't like them.

[StraightOuttaArkansas]

After catching up on this entire thread (I really enjoyed it), I have come up with a question. Sparked by some people discussing if fundies plan for eventualities like widows and what not. I was wondering: what if Jana never get married (let's go simple say she just doesn't want to). If she is never allowed to move out on her own, but all the little girls do end up getting married and leaving (and for arguments sake all the boys too), does Jana finally get her own room? There would be literally nobody left to room with her, well except JB&M. Also, I am purposefully excluding the idea of moving in with a sibling because at that point JB&M will be at an age where they would want round the clock care for themselves probably (well ok, getting close to that age and starting to think about it). Jana would be free labor in that situation. I really wonder if they have thought about that scenario yet.

Another thought, in Southern Baptist churches in Arkansas (I guess that is next closest big religion), there is an idea  (for lack of a better word) that some people are "called" to be single. No reason given, other than that it is the Lord's will for them to remain single for their whole life. We had several middle age ladies at my church who were in this group. They were all very religious and at the church every time the doors were open, all very sweet and had jobs, just believed since the right man had never shown up, their calling was to remain single. I don't know if fundies have some idea of this, I believe there was some verse that they used to justify this idea, but maybe that is what Jana feels?

[jljohnson527]

In my case experience a lot of the people called to Singledom “struggle” (in fundie eyes) with same sex attraction. Single and celibate is better than teh gay.

I have no clue about Jana, obviously.

[formerhsfundie]

I find it fascinating that Jana manages to be both the lynch pin of the family, and yet constantly flies under the radar. She definitely avoids the spotlight and imo does a good job of it.

I hope she is single by choice, but she seems demure and quiet it's just impossible to know if she isn't also just emotionally scarred or in shock from all the shit she has seen. I have siblings who are more or less just immobilized as adults because of the whole experience. It's just easier to live with your parents than leave and deal with it? Possible. Could also explain the freaky Arndt situation as well. Or she has perfected grey rock techniques.

Whatever it is I hope shes happy. Any reason I can think of why she is still there makes me sad.