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Stockdale family murders


JermajestyDuggar

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56 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

Is it possible for anyone with non-dinosaur tech talent to post the wife-swap video or part of it?

 

I tried to find it on YouTube, but maybe someone else knows where it might be before it's taken down...

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What is so interesting is that from the outside looking in, people would consider this "a good family" while they would consider the family that they swapped with as the lesser family. I'm not saying the other family is better, but i bet those kids aren't out killing anyone. 

It just goes to show that extreme control over your children is not going to end well. 

I just read something online that sociopaths are often from extremely controlling families and extremely permissive (neglectful) families.  Thankfully most families fall somewhere in between and that's the better way to raise kids. 

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ETA: Intrigued that one son is in grad school, meaning a 4-year college degree first. I'd love to know if he had to strike out on his own or if the parents supported his attending college.

I remember the Stockdale/Tonkovic Wife Swap ep. From the beginning, Charles seemed like the ~rebellious one, the kid who openly questioned his family's lifestyle. When I heard that he had gone off to get an advanced degree - in a hard science, no less - I wasn't too surprised. He seemed like the most curious of the boys. If any of the sons were going to get an advanced degree, it was going to be him. 

It's kinda disturbing to think back on some of the conversations I had on other message boards when this WS ep aired, considering everything now. I distinctly remember the phrase "fucking nuts" being used to describe the family. 

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Charles and Calvin seem to be well adjusted by their Facebook pages, Calvin is married with a history degree and old photos from college he posted publicly looks like he had fun and moved away from the craziness and they both did a Spartan race. It's very sad, Jacob and James should have already moved out, but clearly there was something going on. I can't imagine growing up with such control over every moment of life. 

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Wow their meal plan speaks volumes. Every little bit was planned.

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4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

This is all speculation but I always wonder about fundie adult males still living at home and still being treated like children.

<cough> Arndts <cough>

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We moved to the country to get the boys away from the city. Our children are being raised away from violent language, sexual influences, drinking, smoking, drugs, rap music all the things we left behind in the city. Instead we are raising our children on a diet of wholesome activities and farm work; keeping their minds pure and their bodies healthy and keeping out the influences of modern society. That is why we home-school.

I'm sorry that didn't work out the way they planned, but I'm also not surprised.

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I like things done my way, the right way. I have started to teach Jacob and Charles how to cook some recipes like sausages and bread but I have to be around to watch over them to make sure they do it right.

Wow. She makes our favorite fundy control-freaks look like slackers.

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38 minutes ago, Coconutwater said:

Charles and Calvin seem to be well adjusted by their Facebook pages, Calvin is married with a history degree and old photos from college he posted publicly looks like he had fun and moved away from the craziness and they both did a Spartan race. It's very sad, Jacob and James should have already moved out, but clearly there was something going on. I can't imagine growing up with such control over every moment of life. 

Maybe the reigns were tightened when the other two sons moved out. I wonder how close those sons were with the family once they moved out and started having control of their own lives. If you allow your children to see their brothers are still good people while living out in the world, you risk the ones left behind looking for a way to leave for the same chance at life. I wonder if the brother was killed so he wouldn't be left alone. Ugh, I know I am going to be thinking about this all day now. 

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It looks like the two older brothers are married. One is either about to have a fourth or just had a fourth child and the other brother looks like he got married in 2015? The one with 4 kids lives in Michigan and looks like he might still be fundie. His wife looks fundie and had 4 kids pretty close together. The dad and two older brothers look so nice and normal on fb. The brother who is the murderer has a bit of a creepy picture up of him and a falcon. The look on his face is just kind of creepy.

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It looks as if their website has been taken down. Dammit, I wanted to read that manual.

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24 minutes ago, Hane said:

It looks as if their website has been taken down. Dammit, I wanted to read that manual.

Well damn. Just know that everything was structured and controlled. That was the overall message. And the mom was pretty obsessed with not eating anything processed. They never ate out she said. They always brought food with them wherever they went. And if the boys got candy (my guess is at Boy Scouts) then she would buy it off of them and throw it away.

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9 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

This is all speculation but I always wonder about fundie adult males stillliving at home and still being treated like children. It's expected for the females since they will always be under someone's power but what about the sons? They grow up thinking that one day they will be leaders of a household. These two sons were legal adults making their own money in a band that seemed to be pretty good. It makes me wonder about them wanting more freedom and autonomy. Which is completely understandable as a young adult. I always wonder how hard it is for each set of fundie parents to finally give up control once their longest children are grown. We've seen how hard it is for the Penningtons and Jeubs. 

I read an article in Newsweek about "family annihilators" -- people who kill their entire families and then usually themselves -- and some psychologists said that they are more often than not middle-class white men who have failed in some way to fulfill societal ideals of middle class white masculinity: financial success, independence, a "perfect" (submissive) family. If you're a clean-cut white guy who's been told all his life by external and internal forces that you have to be the big strong man with a perfectly fuckable wife who pumps out child after child whom you support with lots of money (and no debt), and instead you're sitting at home with your weird parents who demand success from you that they never gave you the chance to chase, you fit that profile pretty darned well.

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I remember that episode, saw it on reruns and thought of FJ but because I couldn't remember their names and didn't see the episode in its entirety I didn't post about it.  But what I DID see was a segment where the older boys were going to go on dates, and the dad went ballistic and regurgitated the fundie party lines verbatim about giving away pieces of their hearts, etc.   I just nodded because I knew ALL the background whereas most people wouldn't know what any of it was about.  That boy snapped.

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11 hours ago, Howl said:

ETA: Intrigued that one son is in grad school, meaning a 4-year college degree first. I'd love to know if he had to strike out on his own or if the parents supported his attending college.

The oldest son has a degree in history from Hillsdale, a super conservative private college in Michigan that caters to fundies and homeschoolers.  The second son has a degree in chemistry from Hillsdale and is now working on a PhD in organic chemistry at Temple. His bio is here: https://sites.temple.edu/sieburthlab/group-members/charles-stockdale/

Hillsdale used to be a garden variety small American Baptist college until a few decades ago when they got a college president who took the school into the Land of Crazy. But it is an accredited school with a good academic reputation--it isn't a pseudo college offering fake degrees.

The youngest son--the one who was murdered by his brother--was working on a degree in business management at a local Kent State campus.

I haven't found anything about Jacob Stockdale attending college--that doesn't mean he didn't--but he was certainly a very talented fiddle player.

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That is just.... wow :0 I would have snapped too, who can live like that! So sad that he saw this as the only solution to his problems whatever they may be. Thanks for the capture for those just tuning in! @jakesykora

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This is beyond tragic and sad. Living in this family sounds like hell.

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That mom sounds amazingly smug and insufferable. And just completely unlikable and miserable to be around. I'm having a hard time working up much sympathy for her even though her life ended in such a horrible way. The dad said there was no indication that anything was wrong but I have a very hard time believing that.

It's interesting, supposedly they're so religious but reading the description of their days, there doesn't seem to be anything about reading the Bible or anything like that. Just saying grace before dinner and going to church on Sunday morning. I didn't get the sense that religion was all that important to them. The mom repeats the HELL out of herself about the stuff she really cares about, but barely mentions God at all.

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9 hours ago, Hane said:

It looks as if their website has been taken down. Dammit, I wanted to read that manual.

http://web.archive.org/web/20170529172418/http://stockdalefamilyband.com/

http://web.archive.org/web/20170616183644/http://stockdalefamilyband.com/stockdale-family-manual/

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I am the mother, school teacher, cook and band manager in this family. I get the boys up and schedule their day from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to sleep. 

Erika Shupe is lenient compared to her.

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I make sure there is regular practice sessions scheduled into their day and even put up lyrics in the bathroom so that they never miss an opportunity to learn them.

Jill Rodrigues is more lenient on music.

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I run this family to a tight ship with their schedules but we are not slaves to the clock. 

Liar.  Earlier on, she said she wakes the kids at 7:30am and gives the 4 minutes to get to the breakfast table (breakfast starts at 8am, but they have to get there by 7:34), and they get financially penalized is they're late.  She sets the oven timer and they have to beat it.

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My aim is to give the boys the ability to explore the world in a safe environment.

But they're also literally never allowed to do anything off the farm but lessons, playing gigs, and going to the market with her 1x a month.  No internet, no tv, and the only movies and radio, which they have to earn with a lot of tokens, are pre-screened.  How can they explore anything, even their own bodies, when every moment is scheduled, and time in the bathroom is to be spent on song lyrics?  They never get any downtime.  Playing music isn't downtime when it's required as practice for gigs.

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Life is not about entertainment and fun. 

Sure isn't in that household, and it's probably why she's dead now.  I don't think the son who did this is a killer.  I think he was mentally and physically destroyed by the 24/7 control over literally every second ever aspect everything in his entire life.  They don't get to hang out unless it's "with purpose," and that is limited to on the farm to practice debate.  They never got treats growing up, at all, literally at all, and had to pay for the music and debate lessons she required then to take.  That shit's not cheap, but even at 11, the youngest had to find ways to earn the money to pay.  She left those boys nothing to live for unless they managed to find wives and move out.  They lacked stimulus with their repetitive schedules, and forgot that they're children.  20 tokens to listen to a single radio program.  Even as young children, they had to do a lot to earn very little.  I'm only surprised she didn't withhold food.  She broke those kids, and I really can't see Jacob as being a killer after all I've just read and watched.  I think he responded to a lifetime of the most extreme oppression I think I've ever heard about in modern America.

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Not sure how to do quote boxes, but these were some of the quotes that stood out to me and then I got too sad to read anymore. The control, the control, the control and the misuse of a token economy. The repetition of that family motto. I can't. So sad.

"I am completely involved in my children's lives. I stay at home so that I can shape the way they grow up and how they are influenced."

"Nothing is free for the boys everything has to be earned." 

"Our family motto is that 'it may be a hard life but it's a good life'

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7 hours ago, VVV said:

The youngest son--the one who was murdered by his brother--was working on a degree in business management at a local Kent State campus.

That branch is surrounded by farms and that is the small branch a lot of farm kids go to. I guarantee the parents wouldn't have allowed him to transfer to Kent's main campus. Way too liberal. He still could have commuted and not lived there but I bet it would be too worldly for their taste. 

I also noticed they didn't talk a lot about religion. 1) this could've been because ABC didn't want them to or 2) they could've found a way to control their children without throwing god into the mix every five seconds. 

The fundies we see seem to want to control and overprotect their children and use God as their reason. They are right in controlling their kids because god says so. This woman was so right in her convictions she didn't need to constantly use god as her reason for controlling her kids. She really did seem sure of herself and the way she raised her kids.

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3 hours ago, Coy Koi said:

It's interesting, supposedly they're so religious but reading the description of their days, there doesn't seem to be anything about reading the Bible or anything like that.

It reminded me of when I first started reading the Vision Forum site and Doug's Blog, and I was like, "Why don't they ever talk about Jesus Christ? This is a lifestyle, not a religion." 

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