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Dillards 31: Grifting, Lying, and Allergies


Coconut Flan

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7 hours ago, mpheels said:

I know Jessa and Ben talk a lot about adoption, but I can see Jill actually doing it, especially if she has another difficult labor and c-section. If she maxes out on c-sections after 4 kids, I can see her collecting hoarding adopting kids to fulfill her mega family dreams.

I can't see when Jessa and Ben would be able to adopt. If they go at the same rate, and have a kid every 15 - 18 months, I don't think an agency would approve them. In most cases you can't adopt if you have a young baby.

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41 minutes ago, Exposedknees said:

HAS to be  thread title

Jill with unproven birth canal (per Sassy Pants)

- I can't get both quotes. I'm not that talented. This is also my vote for a thread title. 

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We have a friend from Germany who is a recently qualified obstetrician. She always killed it academically, so they sent her on some awesome exchange to practice in one of UK's top teaching hospitals for three weeks. She went home and ran to her Mum saying how positively medieval UK theatres are and that it takes "at least three minutes" to get a baby out. She has sworn she's staying home to practice forever.

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I'm not sure. There's the language thing too - the original conversation was in German. Suffice it to say she was horrified.

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6 hours ago, freejoy said:

I really wish Jill a safe delivery. She doesn't seem as happy as she used to be... 

I noticed this too. I do not believe Derrick and Jill are emotionally compatible. Having different emotional needs can totally drain a relationship, especially a travelling one far from the supports and comforts of family and friends. It is completely clear that SA scares Jill. She is terrified and wanted home. What does Derrick do? He continues to go. He takes her along while she is pregnant. In Derrick's defense, not sure what type of contract or obligation he is under to continue to return to SA. However, if there is none, then he selfishly takes his wife and child there knowing full well she does not feel emotionally secure in that environment.  Derrick likes challenge and adventure in the name of helping those less fortunate. That is all good and dandy. That is why he should have gotten it all out as a bachelor, in my opinion. As a father and married man, his responsibility is the protection of his family first. 

I thought some of the advice Jill gave Joy and Austin was odd. She mentioned when Joy is crying for seemingly, no reason, he should just be supportive and rub her back. I feel like all Jill wants is support, understanding and emotional protection. I am sure Derrick feels the same way. He sees this to be his life calling. Jill knew his desires for missionary work outside the country. She thought she shared the same passions, until she lived it. It's one thing to volunteer or go on trips. It's another to live amongst the people.

Like you, I truly wish her the best with this pregnancy. I also hope things get better for them. 

 

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27 minutes ago, MadeItOut said:

I'm not sure. There's the language thing too - the original conversation was in German. Suffice it to say she was horrified.

Sorry. My mind went straight to a particular scene in the movie.

I do think your point about delivery rooms being out-of-date is important. I didn't know that was a problem in UK.

 

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Jill with unproven birth canal (per Sassy Pants)

- I can't get both quotes. I'm not that talented. This is also my vote for a thread title. 

So if she has a VBAC it will get updated to: Jill and the Dullards, now with proven birth canal!

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I swear I saw a boom from a microphone 

and who would video it ? Michelle ? 

It very well could be that it was a home video and the Duggars just happen to have professional film equipment like boom mics on hand for such occasions. I'm sure at least some of the family have picked up some filming tips having grown up with camera crews around all the time.

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It very well could be that it was a home video and the Duggars just happen to have professional film equipment like boom mics on hand for such occasions. I'm sure at least some of the family have picked up some filming tips having grown up with camera crews around all the time.

I've seen video of the Duggars shooting video (yeah, I know), and the Duggar boys had pro cameras and boom mics.

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what I ask myself is if TLC is trying to throw Jill and Derick under the bus  (even more than they do themselves)  by picturing them as frustrated because of Derick's "illness" and because of the hardships in central america. I have the feeling they are trying to picture them as whiny and weak...

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I'm definitely hoping things go well for Jill but I'm so curious to see how this works out. The pressure to have a Vbac this time must be intense. I've met so many women who have successfully done it so I hope she gets the same. And who knows, if she has this one in the hospital and it works out maybe the next one could be a home birth. I just wouldn't want to risk it with my first vbac at home. 

I also wonder how big this babe will be compared to Izzy. 

Both Jill and Jessa had pretty darn big first babies.  But Henry was a pound smaller than Spurgeon.  

I think a first VBAC really should be done in a hospital.  Our state says all VBAC patients must be referred to real midwives, so if she gets a good relationship with a Certified Nurse Midwife instead of a lay midwife, it's possible further births really could be safely done at home.  Hopefully all the birth houses are within 5 minutes of a hospital.  There are several reasonably close to the TTH (is that the Tater Tot House, or the TontiTown House?)

If not... it appears Giron's staff spoke out saying the "midwife" who Jessa worked with wasn't related to their group and wasn't licensed.  That means TLC is fine with airing scenes from an officially "unattended" birth when it comes to filling out the birth certificate, etc.  I hope they're less okay with doing so on the first birth after a Cesarean.  

Joy Coonfield, who is licensed, attended Jill's and made a correct decision to transfer if 20 hours of first stage real labor had happened (guidelines), plus she gave Jill the legally required Group B Strep prophylaxis.  She still has her license even though some of the local midwives suggested that Jill's birth was investigated because of media reports of the long labor.  But there might be competition for business so talking down about a rival company isn't surprising.

Joy (who, from last name very well might be related to an ex-coworker I had in NWA) certainly can't attend this birth.  

I bet there was a lot of feeling like a failure for having to have the operation.  I feel bad for her for thst, but lay midwifery is for healthy, uncomplicated women and pregnancies.  A prior Cesarean with no prior vaginal births definitely puts this into the category of "complicated", even if most "complicated" pregnancies have great outcomes.  It's simply a complication that lay midwives cannot adequately address or prevent the problems associated with.  Jill isn't any type of failure, except for exposing herself and child(ren if you count the one baking) to Zika.  

But it did mean no more attended home births... putting the focus on Jessa's home deliveries.  I hope that isn't why they decided to focus on missionary work, to keep seeming relevant. 

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Both Jill and Jessa had pretty darn big first babies.  But Henry was a pound smaller than Spurgeon.  

I think a first VBAC really should be done in a hospital.  Our state says all VBAC patients must be referred to real midwives, so if she gets a good relationship with a Certified Nurse Midwife instead of a lay midwife, it's possible further births really could be safely done at home.  Hopefully all the birth houses are within 5 minutes of a hospital.  There are several reasonably close to the TTH (is that the Tater Tot House, or the TontiTown House?)

If not... it appears Giron's staff spoke out saying the "midwife" who Jessa worked with wasn't related to their group and wasn't licensed.  That means TLC is fine with airing scenes from an officially "unattended" birth when it comes to filling out the birth certificate, etc.  I hope they're less okay with doing so on the first birth after a Cesarean.  

Joy Coonfield, who is licensed, attended Jill's and made a correct decision to transfer if 20 hours of first stage real labor had happened (guidelines), plus she gave Jill the legally required Group B Strep prophylaxis.  She still has her license even though some of the local midwives suggested that Jill's birth was investigated because of media reports of the long labor.  But there might be competition for business so talking down about a rival company isn't surprising.

Joy (who, from last name very well might be related to an ex-coworker I had in NWA) certainly can't attend this birth.  

I bet there was a lot of feeling like a failure for having to have the operation.  I feel bad for her for thst, but lay midwifery is for healthy, uncomplicated women and pregnancies.  A prior Cesarean with no prior vaginal births definitely puts this into the category of "complicated", even if most "complicated" pregnancies have great outcomes.  It's simply a complication that lay midwives cannot adequately address or prevent the problems associated with.  Jill isn't any type of failure, except for exposing herself and child(ren if you count the one baking) to Zika.  

But it did mean no more attended home births... putting the focus on Jessa's home deliveries.  I hope that isn't why they decided to focus on missionary work, to keep seeming relevant. 

I always say Tater Tot Hell when I see TTH

 I completely agree that at least the first vbac should be at a hospital. And I definitely don't think Jill is a failure for getting a csection. I've had many friends (some birth workers, some not) have very successful vbacs at home but they usually do their first vbac in a hospital or birthing center within a few miles of a hospital. Which is reasonable, imo. I'm all about home birth and totally would have done it with my last but we couldn't afford it out of pocket so I went with the midwives at the hospital. 

I try so hard to be supportive of everyone's birth choices and I do respect lay midwives like Ina May Gaskin, but these "midwives" the Duggars have are just scary. They might as well be free birthing. 

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TTH=tinker toy house on account of when they were building the house it looked like a giant tinker toy set. And possibly Boob called it that?

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First baby 36 hours of labour born c section, 10.8oz. Second baby 9.14oz 2wks early , c section. Third baby we did a trial of labour.  Meconium as thick as pea soup the nurse said. Heart rate dropping to 60 and I was whisked off to surgery. 10.2 baby.  Fourth baby 8.6 spontaneous early labour ,c section born with breathing difficulties that kept him in NICU. 

Jill would be so dumb to attempt a VBAC on her own. After my trial of birth for my third we would have lost him if we were at home.  He is now a 25 yr old man. Some people like me have them big and just need help getting them out.  I was just so happy to have a baby in my arms I didn't care they were all c sections.  I am Canadian so all births and week long hospital stays  cost me nothing. I can't imagine cost fuelling a home birth where there  is a chance to risk the life of your baby or yourself. Or for that matter being paid by TV. 

 

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16 hours ago, TatiFish9 said:

I noticed this too. I do not believe Derrick and Jill are emotionally compatible. Having different emotional needs can totally drain a relationship, especially a travelling one far from the supports and comforts of family and friends. It is completely clear that SA scares Jill. She is terrified and wanted home. What does Derrick do? He continues to go. He takes her along while she is pregnant. In Derrick's defense, not sure what type of contract or obligation he is under to continue to return to SA. However, if there is none, then he selfishly takes his wife and child there knowing full well she does not feel emotionally secure in that environment.  Derrick likes challenge and adventure in the name of helping those less fortunate. That is all good and dandy. That is why he should have gotten it all out as a bachelor, in my opinion. As a father and married man, his responsibility is the protection of his family first. 

I thought some of the advice Jill gave Joy and Austin was odd. She mentioned when Joy is crying for seemingly, no reason, he should just be supportive and rub her back. I feel like all Jill wants is support, understanding and emotional protection. I am sure Derrick feels the same way. He sees this to be his life calling. Jill knew his desires for missionary work outside the country. She thought she shared the same passions, until she lived it. It's one thing to volunteer or go on trips. It's another to live amongst the people.

Like you, I truly wish her the best with this pregnancy. I also hope things get better for them. 

 

I have noticed a huge difference in Jill and also Derrick's behavior in the last year or so of the show. I think Jill's thoughts on marriage, babies and missionary work may have been a bit fantasized before.  I think a lot of it may have been glorified to her by her family and beliefs.  She clearly had very little knowledge on the dangers of going to SA beforehand and how difficult it would be to live there while having to take care of a baby.  Derrick seems to have gone down hill physically and maybe even mentally. I find some of his social media posts have gotten concerning over the last while and obviously his physical health is not good.  He looks awful. I worry about Derrick becoming mentally and physically worse as time goes on.  Jill looks unhappy and stressed out. I think she probably has some serious regrets. 

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When I had my daughter 5 years ago I was in a very well equiped birthing unit. I accept maybe the UK doesn't have everything others might have, but 1000s of babies still get delivered safely and thanks to the NHS no matter what type of birth you have, no matter what treatment you and your baby need it won't cost you a penny.

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3 hours ago, Fluffy14 said:

First baby 36 hours of labour born c section, 10.8oz. Second baby 9.14oz 2wks early , c section. Third baby we did a trial of labour.  Meconium as thick as pea soup the nurse said. Heart rate dropping to 60 and I was whisked off to surgery. 10.2 baby.  Fourth baby 8.6 spontaneous early labour ,c section born with breathing difficulties that kept him in NICU. 

Jill would be so dumb to attempt a VBAC on her own. After my trial of birth for my third we would have lost him if we were at home.  He is now a 25 yr old man. Some people like me have them big and just need help getting them out.  I was just so happy to have a baby in my arms I didn't care they were all c sections.  I am Canadian so all births and week long hospital stays  cost me nothing. I can't imagine cost fuelling a home birth where there  is a chance to risk the life of your baby or yourself. Or for that matter being paid by TV. 

 

 

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

 

 

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21 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

I had my first three babies via c/section and my last two vaginally, although my fourth only weighed 2 pounds.  I do have a Pfannenstiel (horizontal) uterine incision, but a vertical (Classical) skin incision.  I was never told by my first OB that I had a horizontal uterine incision and only discovered it when my OB with my third baby showed me my medical records.  According to some things that were going around in the early-mid 80s, Classical uterine incisions were not necessarily a barrier to VBAC.  Anyway I was glad I did not have one.  (I did wonder about why I had these  weird "stitch" sensations horizontally in my lower abdomen after my first 2 c/secs.) My third was a c/section after she went into distress after a failed trial of labor.  My OB did tell me that I could have delivered an 8 pound baby with no problem.  Babies 1, 2, and 3 were 9'5", 9'1", and 8'13", respectively.  My fifth baby was 8 pounds even.

Things have changed a lot (at least in the US) in terms of VBAC since I have my last baby in '91.  There were some studies down that showed VBAC, particularly HBAC (home birth after caesarean) to not be without risk.  I remember seeing an OB from San Diego who was famous for his 95% VBAC rate urging caution with VBAC on Lifetime back when they had medical programming on Sundays and late nights.  IIRC, there had been some maternal deaths with HBAC.  Physicians were through a phase where they were extremely cautious about VBAC, making it all but impossible to get one, but I think things have relaxed a bit in the past 20 years.

The late Bobby Kennedy's wife, Ethel, had all 11 of their children via c/section.  I read where she took her own Porthault sheets to the hospital with her to give birth.  If I had had 11 c/sections, I'd get some Porthault linens to take to the hospital, too!

Actually, that isn't true. She only had the last five via Caesarean. It's cited in contemporary news reports around the time she had her last, Rory, in 1968.

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5 hours ago, Henk12 said:

I try so hard to be supportive of everyone's birth choices and I do respect lay midwives like Ina May Gaskin, but these "midwives" the Duggars have are just scary. They might as well be free birthing. 

That's essentially what those women on forums are advocating -- unattended births -- for VBACs at home in states like Arkansas.  Part of me thinks if women are doing this that a fake midwife is better than none at all, so it should be moved to "conditions that require a doctor to approve home birth" -- that way if a woman has had several VBACs already after just one C and would be laboring very close to the hospital, they might allow it.  And would recommend a hospital birth in this pregnancy for Jill just to be safe.

At the same time, few doctors will risk the malpractice issues that could come with officially allowing any home birth, but especially a first time VBAC.  

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As a baby Israel looked like Jill's clone. Now he's looking more and more like Derick:

 

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2 hours ago, danni9242 said:

When I had my daughter 5 years ago I was in a very well equiped birthing unit. I accept maybe the UK doesn't have everything others might have, but 1000s of babies still get delivered safely and thanks to the NHS no matter what type of birth you have, no matter what treatment you and your baby need it won't cost you a penny.

I thought that with two/three of mine. Knowing her as I do, I suspect it's a case of her home hospital is super-spaceage or something.

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On 6/13/2017 at 0:42 PM, SassyPants said:

Jill has an unproven birth canal, had a very large first baby, and has had 1 previous C/S...she is not a good candidate for: a home birth or an unattended birth of any kind. If she wants to attempt a VBAC, she needs to be in a hospital and under the care of a professional who can provide a C/S if needed.

So much this.  I'm one of those people who supports midwifery and homebirths, even for multiples and breeches and first-time mothers, if the midwife is properly trained and a hospital isn't so far away, but Jill has already has a situation where she couldn't deliver a baby.  Being anywhere but a hospital is too dangerous.  Tiny little women have managed to deliver bigger babies.  My size-nothing 5'4" mother delivered me vaginally and I was even longer than Izzy and wore a size 2 in shoes when born, and my first baby outfit, which I still have, was a 12mo outfit the hospital had since the newborn stuff my mother had was too small.  A cousin of mine is even smaller and naturally delivered a whopping 12-pounder who was somewhere around 20".  

But average-size Jill couldn't pass out Izzy after 70 hours, and that's a major worry that her body might be a body that just can't do it.  Hopefully she doesn't chance it and will be in an actual hospital, even if she has a vaginal trial with a midwife.  70 hours is just so dangerous.  Who the fuck thought that long was okay?

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On 6/13/2017 at 4:18 PM, sawasdee said:

What would the financial situation be? (Non US here). Would they be left with huge bills if they went for a hospital birth? I very much doubt they have insurance.

But then again, I completely don't understand this fundie obsession with home birth. For me, safest place for mother and child wins every time - which may be home, a birthing centre or a hospital, depending on circumstances.

Even if you've got insurance, there can be bills.  My homebirth midwife was $1,500 out of pocket, and birth center out of hospital wasn't covered at all, so was entirely on us.  But if there was a hospital-transfer, then it got more expensive.   The following fees applied on top if I went in, and if I went right for hospital from the start, would have been the only fees:  In a hospital, midwife would have been a copay of $4,000 unless an OB/GYN needed to get involved, which would have raised it to $5,000, whether it ended up vaginal or c-section.  In a hospital with an OB/GYN only and a vaginal birth, the copay was $2,000.  OB/GYN with scheduled c-section was a copay of $500, and an OB/GYN and unscheduled c-section was $2,500.  Notice how the only option under $1,000 was to schedule a c-section.  Elective or for cause, it didn't matter.  And both times the insurance company tried talking me into scheduling a c-section, and even held back on paying the homebirth midwife long enough that I had set up a payment schedule the last time since it looked like the insurance wasn't going to pay.  Husband's boss got involved though and made them pay.

I know those prices are right since I searched my email for the email I sent my mother-in-law about the costs.  I don't know if the ACA limits out of pocket for births now since it kicked in after the last birth.

I have a friend who once had a copay of only $500 regardless of birth, and a few friends who purposefully keep their income low so they qualify for Medicaid and don't have to ever pay anything for medical care or deliveries, and the really fucked up thing is those friends have more spare money after section 8 and food stamps and cash aid than some of my working friends do after paying for medical bills and prescriptions every month.  Such is the fucked up state of medical care in America.  I do know that still applies, and is going to get worse.

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On 6/13/2017 at 5:17 PM, jacduggar said:

Wrong. It's not required by law, not having insurance results in a tax penalty. I know many people who choose to take the tax penalty because their routine doctor visits cost significantly less than their health insurance premiums and deductible. 

Insurance IS required by law, but there are loopholes, like paying the penalty.  If it wasn't required, there wouldn't be a penalty for not having it.  And there are other loopholes, like buying into Scamaritan like Dawbs said, and hardship exemptions and other religious exemptions.  And if they don't have coverage, she can still go to a hospital and get care, but the taxpayers will be on the hook for what she doesn't pay.  And yet she isn't really for socialized healthcare, right?

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