Joy and Austin: Pikes Peak or Bust?

[closetcagebaby]

Kind of rude to call out thread drift dedicated to calling out racist and historically inaccurate comments, imo. It's important to say something when these aggressions occur. Not to mention, thread drift is a pretty important part of board culture here. 

[SilverBeach]

10 minutes ago, closetcagebaby said:

Kind of rude to call out thread drift dedicated to calling out racist and historically inaccurate comments, imo. It's important to say something when these aggressions occur. Not to mention, thread drift is a pretty important part of board culture here. 

Yeah, I don't get that at all. I guess we should apologize for interrupting a discussion of how hard it must be to have sex for the first time in a tent.

I don't care what the topic is, when racist shit come up it needs to be confronted then and there. Thanks @JesusCampSongsand the others who spoke out, that's FJ at it's best.

And yes, it has been repeatedly affirmed that thread drift is a thing here and is here to stay.

 

[closetcagebaby]

6 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Yeah, I don't get that at all. I guess we should apologize for interrupting a discussion of how hard it must be to have sex for the first time in a tent.

I don't care what the topic is, when racist shit come up it needs to be confronted then and there. Thanks @JesusCampSongsand the others who spoke out, that's FJ at it's best.

And yes, it has been repeatedly affirmed that thread drift is a thing here and is here to stay.

 

 My deepest apologies to anyone who felt their tent sex convo was interrupted by my Northern Aggression™.

I'm in absolute agreement with you there. There's no excuse for just letting things slide. That's been happening for way too long and it gives sickos the feeling that they have a pass. Fuck racism. Call it out. 

[subsaharanafrica]

I read the War of Northern Aggression as being said with a mock southern drawl and an eye roll. 

I'm sorry that wasn't the case. 

If we're looking for new names may I suggest the War of Southern Treason?

This is all somewhat joking, but seriously, from a historical perspective the second name is more accurate than the first. The  southern states were the initial aggressor when they fired upon Fort Sumter. Levying war against the United States is the textbook definition of treason. One of those two names is a tad more accurate than the other. 

 

[MarblesMom]

The discussion of "Northern Aggression v. Southern" brings me to yet another awkward moment - someone told me today since the church was sending potholders to the Navajo Nation, she would make some in "southwestern colors."  I am not Native American, but I cringed inside. WTF?

Not to diminish the Bigger Discussion on the Civil War.  Carry on.  We are getting some much needed commentary out there.

[BoPeep]

I first heard it called the War of Northern Aggression when I moved to the deep south.  It is not called the Civil War down here.  And I never knew it to be a racist term....yet I can see how it is viewed as such.  That said....at the end of the war, whole cities were burned to the ground, the railways were destroyed, and almost all crops* were burned...essentially leaving the people of the south to starve.  I can see a bit of lingering bitterness due to those issues, and the people from the deep south feeling that the north went too far.  Of course, our nation WAS split by this war, and it is evident that the issues can still divide and cause enmity.  

*The only crop left in the fields were cow peas, though the cattle and livestock were killed, as the troops figured they were only good for animals.  The aouthern people survived from eating cow peas and cooking up greens they found.  It's rather interesting....especially as everyone down here has their favorite type of cow pea (black eyed peas, purple hull, and a host of others which I cannot begin to list, lol), and their favorite greens.  The green peas I grew up eating...the only peas I ever knew of....are designated as "english peas" down here, and aren't eaten as much.  When someone refers to peas, they are talking about cow peas.  

**I don't belong to the north or the south, though I've lived happily in both....too much moving means not belonging anywhere, yet having all my heart pieces in multiple places.  It also allows me to study people groups, and see situations from several sides, which is very interesting.

[MarblesMom]

Just now, BoPeep said:

I can see a bit of lingering bitterness

I commented many, many years ago (elsewhere) that the US was not yet over Vietnam ... and got a lot of reading in response how the nation is not yet over the Civil War.  

Lingering bitterness is ... not really how I would describe the US's overall "coming to terms" with that particular war.

[BoPeep]

***btw, as a kid, I lived in the "Land of Lincoln"....he was our hero!  I excitedly mentioned something my kids and I learned about him on a local (deep south) homeschool group...and....crickets...  lol.  I didn't even realize that Lincoln is NOT revered in the deep south.

The other extremely noticeable difference for me was the non-celebration of the 4th of July in the south, compared to the north.  It HAS become more of a holiday in the south, but in the 80's....yeah.....not so much.  

[nvmbr02]

1 hour ago, FundieCentral said:

 

so what are these two planning for their honeymoon? Didn't they mention going on a road trip or so? If yes, I wonder if they will be just in Colorado, or whether they will do a national park tour and go to Yosemite and all the Utah national parks as well. 

I don't think they have publicly stated what the plan is. I've only seen the one picture that looks like Pike's Peak. There is so much to see in CO they could just stay there or they could be doing a longer roadtrip. I personally love all of the National Parks we have been to in that region...Yellowstone, Grand Tetons. Zion, Arches, Bryce, Yosemite, the Grand Canyon... Really there are so many beautiful places for a couple that wants to explore the outdoors. 

[BoPeep]

18 minutes ago, MarblesMom said:

I commented many, many years ago (elsewhere) that the US was not yet over Vietnam ... and got a lot of reading in response how the nation is not yet over the Civil War.  

Lingering bitterness is ... not really how I would describe the US's overall "coming to terms" with that particular war.

There are so many issues.  Many, many, many.  I think that is why I don't jump immediately to being racist as the reason one would call it the war of northern aggression.  (Yet again, I now see why people would.)  Cause yes, slavery is and was and will always be horrid and distasteful and disgusting.  And slavery WAS INDEED a huge part of the war.  But it's not the only issue people had, nor have.  There are so many layers to that war, and to the issues that surrounded which side a person was on.  I think that complexity is what is interesting to mull over.  

Obviously it is still not a part of us which is healed.  How do people heal from hundreds of years of abuse and beatings and systemic racism?  How do they heal from the treatment of so many people against them..and from treatment that still seems to follow, so many years later?  

And then, how does a nation so torn....become better and well and no longer torn?  

Also, the "lingering bitterness" I mentioned was what I see down here in response to the north's ending of the war.  I am probably wrong, but I see that as part of how southerners see the north as having been aggressive.  I'm sure someone who grew up in this culture might have more or different reasons to add.

As @subsaharanafrica mentioned calling it the war of southern treason....yes, I can see that, too.  That makes a ton of sense!

[sawasdee]

Many years ago I was working as a tour guide in the UK with exclusively US clients.

I had customers object to my calling it the Civil War - to them, it was the War of Northern Aggression.

I couldn't stomach that, so settled on the War Between The States as the most likely term not to offend anyone.....is that acceptable today, or does that too have racist overtones?

[season of life]

Spoiler

One photo is of the rings. The second shows Joy and Austin cutting their cake. 

Has anyone seen these? They aren't the best quality, but I just saw them. I like their cake and apparently there was a slideshow, based off the photo.

[just_ordinary]

I am intrigued by his wedding band. It is so not my husbands style with the hammered and polished metall. But it is very interesting. Compared to her rings (which look exactly like mine ) I wonder if he was very much involved in the pick out process as his doesn't match hers exactly.

In the cake cutting photo, Austin looks more relaxed. I hope they enjoy their honeymoon. To be away from the always judging eyes of their families and friends must be heaven on earth! 

[ItsMeY'all]

I mockingly called it The War of Northern Agression one time growing up only to find out I had an ancestor from Ohio fight for the confederacy (with others from Ohio) and other family members from Alabama that were members of The Union's Alabama regiments.

Sorry for the random thread drift, just can't sleep and felt like sharing this oddity.

[freedomfromfrumpers]

Saw some speculation that given the photos around Colorado Springs the newlyweds might be staying at the Broadmoor (which is owned now by Conservative Christian Philip Anschutz)

[FundieCentral]

@closetcagebaby: in case you are passive aggressively referring to me, you may have noticed that I didn't call out a thread drift or anything alike, or say that the topic was inappropriate, or say that racism is welcome here. I'm not sure where you are getting that information from, to be honest. 

I wanted to post a question about where Joy and Austin are on honeymoon, which to my knowledge belongs in this thread. But I wasn't going to contribute to the conversation of war naming specificities in American history just because that's the "current topic". I think I would be of more disservice to contribute an uneducated opinion. I thought the conversation on American wars was over, as it had been going on for a page at that point. Further, I don't quite understand the conflict, but one probably has to be American/more educated in American history, neither of which I unfortunately am. 

Anyway so please don't jump the gun, no harm was intended. 

[LaPeleona]

Maybe I'm from a different part of the "deep" South, wherever that is, but somehow in my 20+ years of growing up there I managed to never hear the civil war referred to as the war of northern aggression. This term needs to just slip on back into oblivion, where it belongs, since the civil war is over and all.

[SorenaJ]

Anyways..

A road trip honeymoon going to different national parks sounds kinda cool. But damn, I hope they are staying in a hotel/cabin. Bugs crawling up your arse while doing the dirty (for the first time even!), doesn't sound particular exciting. 

[ja14]

35 minutes ago, LaPeleona said:

Maybe I'm from a different part of the "deep" South, wherever that is, but somehow in my 20+ years of growing up there I managed to never hear the civil war referred to as the war of northern aggression. This term needs to just slip on back into oblivion, where it belongs, since the civil war is over and all.

I'm from the south too, and I've never heard it referred to this either. Although, I'm not exactly a history buff. I do love Hamilton, if that counts for anything

[RosyDaisy]

I first heard it called the War of Northern Aggression when I moved to the deep south.  It is not called the Civil War down here.

Excuse me? I was born, raised, and still live in Alabama. It is most definitely called the Civil War here by the vast majority. The War of Nothern Aggression is primarily used by ignorant ass racists. I am not one of them, and don't associate with them.

[subsaharanafrica]

5 hours ago, MarblesMom said:

 - someone told me today since the church was sending potholders to the Navajo Nation, she would make some in "southwestern colors."  I am not Native American, but I cringed inside. WTF?

Just out of curiosity, why are the Navajo Nation in need of pot holders? That seems rather random. 

[flycat]

54 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

Excuse me? I was born, raised, and still live in Alabama. It is most definitely called the Civil War here by the vast majority. The War of Nothern Aggression is primarily used by ignorant ass racists. I am not one of them, and don't associate with them.

Yep. Mr Flycat was a history major in the south and never heard it referred to as the war of Northern Aggression until this past week in the comment section on Facebook. 

[Tangy Bee]

2 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

Anyways..

A road trip honeymoon going to different national parks sounds kinda cool. But damn, I hope they are staying in a hotel/cabin. Bugs crawling up your arse while doing the dirty (for the first time even!), doesn't sound particular exciting. 

Same here. I was never a fan of making love outside. If others get down that way, then ok. Not my thing.

[JesusCampSongs]

6 hours ago, closetcagebaby said:

 My deepest apologies to anyone who felt their tent sex convo was interrupted by my Northern Aggression™.

I'm in absolute agreement with you there. There's no excuse for just letting things slide. That's been happening for way too long and it gives sickos the feeling that they have a pass. Fuck racism. Call it out. 

Here is my on-topic and productive contribution to this thread: I had sex in a tent once, it fucking sucked because the ground was hard and it was cold AF outside (and inside) the tent, trying to naked-cuddle someone in that environment is torturous, seriously never again, and I hope they got a hotel because it gets quite cold at night in the desert. even during the summer. 

7 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

As a Black person, I find calling the civil war the war of northern aggression kind of offensive. Because pretty much only those who think the south should have won use that term. This is the second time a member has used this wording, hmmm...

How many times can I like this? So very well said.

Exactly! Using that term is a coded way of saying that you think the North should have let the South secede, which kind of implies that you think that the Confederacy was a legitimate government that should have been allowed to exist, which in turn implies all kinds of ugly things about slavery and racism. If you don't think slavery is okay or that the South should have been allowed to secede (or should have won the war), perhaps it's best to not use that term. 

I'd also like to note that I didn't actually call anyone racist. I did say that the term "War of Northern Aggression" is a dog whistle that, based on my personal observation as well as the apparent history of the term, is used exclusively by racists who yearn for the "Old South." If you don't want to be associated with those types of people, don't use that type of language. Simple. 

6 hours ago, BoPeep said:

I first heard it called the War of Northern Aggression when I moved to the deep south.  It is not called the Civil War down here.  And I never knew it to be a racist term....yet I can see how it is viewed as such.  That said....at the end of the war, whole cities were burned to the ground, the railways were destroyed, and almost all crops* were burned...essentially leaving the people of the south to starve.  I can see a bit of lingering bitterness due to those issues, and the people from the deep south feeling that the north went too far.  Of course, our nation WAS split by this war, and it is evident that the issues can still divide and cause enmity.  

First off, I have lived in the South for my entire life and I have never heard that in common usage. I'm from Appalachia, though, which has a somewhat different history than the rest of the South in the Civil War, in that a lot of Appalachians didn't want to secede and fought for the union instead (see: West Virginia, but it also applies to people who lived in eastern Kentucky and Tennessee, western North Carolina, and northern Georgia). Large-scale agriculture wasn't (and isn't) very doable up here, so there was less attachment to the slave economy-- nor did many have a strong yearning to go off to war and die for some rich guy and his plantation. 

In other words: the cause of the Confederacy was a lot less popular back then than it is now, which I find pretty ironic. I also think it's interesting that so many blame the North for the destruction of the South, when the whole mess could have been avoided by the South not seceding in the first place. 

Anyway, I've lived most of my life here, and the only people I have ever heard use that term seriously were openly racist (members of the Sons/Daughters of the Confederacy and/or Klan sympathizers). 

5 hours ago, BoPeep said:

There are so many issues.  Many, many, many.  I think that is why I don't jump immediately to being racist as the reason one would call it the war of northern aggression.  (Yet again, I now see why people would.)  Cause yes, slavery is and was and will always be horrid and distasteful and disgusting.  And slavery WAS INDEED a huge part of the war.  But it's not the only issue people had, nor have.  There are so many layers to that war, and to the issues that surrounded which side a person was on.  I think that complexity is what is interesting to mull over.  

Obviously it is still not a part of us which is healed.  How do people heal from hundreds of years of abuse and beatings and systemic racism?  How do they heal from the treatment of so many people against them..and from treatment that still seems to follow, so many years later?  

Again, as someone who is from here, a lot of the "other reasons" are, in my opinion and experience, gussied-up rhetoric in the vein of "we just don't like black people and we resent yankees coming down here and telling us how to live." I mentioned above that the Confederate cause is a lot more popular in Appalachia now than it was during the 1860's, and it's absolutely true. Confederate flags are freaking everywhere in rural areas, and they are definitely not being flown as a celebration of history, as that isn't the history of this region in the first place! It's basically a giant middle finger extended in the direction of everyone locals (erroneously) believe is responsible for the poverty and misery that is endemic to this region. In other words: Northerners and people of color. 

I think the grievances of the impoverished South are real, as is the misery of Southern poverty, but placing blame on the North winning the Civil War and uppity PoC and whining about it isn't going to solve anything. Especially since the causes of modern Southern poverty have little to do with the Civil War itself and more to do with the post-War South doing everything they possibly could to undermine Reconstruction, not to mention the Jim Crow area. They had the opportunity to rebuild and develop economically; they instead chose to dig their heels in and put a huge amount of effort into reinstating de facto slavery, which was always going to be an economic dead end. So I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for the  neo-Confederate cause. 

[PVMom]

I think all of the Duggars couldn't wait to get their hands on their spouse.    They were all like teenagers, sex crazed and not one bit shy or reluctant!    this is why their engagements are so short - because they've been forbidden from anything physical.    They can't wait one more minute!

And as far as Joy and Austin honeymooning in a tent......again, they are sex crazed teens.    Like all teens. they will have sex anywhere, literally anywhere and in a tent with an air mattress, no problem.     These girls aren't shy and reluctant for sex, they are the complete and exact opposite!