Family Living on Purpose (FLOP) : Erika Shupe Pt 11

[Howl]

23 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

This is the best way if a parent is simply unable to stop.   I don't know if Karen asked her mother to ease up, perhaps she did, but if Erika couldn't help herself, it's either remain in the family home and deal or leave.

Yes, Karen probably had to say to her mom some form of:  Mom, I love you I really do! I love my siblings, too, but I don't want to raise your children under your suffocating regime. 

#Sayonara #RanchoBunkBed #ChildrenStackedLikeCordwood™ #AdiosSchedule

It's also interesting to me that in several families, it's the daughters who say enough is enough and strike out on their own: Penningtons, Jeubs, Shupes. 

[mango_fandango]

The sons have a cushier life though. They don't have to look after the siblings and they will eventually get to have a job and so on. Yes they're expected to have a load of kids but they also get to have a job. The girls are only allowed to be broodmares. They have more incentive to leave.

[Georgiana]

17 hours ago, Hisey said:

Perhaps you should try monitoring what they eat, how much they sleep, and what they read. Insist they eat salad for lunch every day, and create a schedule (in 15 minute increments) detailing how they spend their day. They'll be out of there in no time!

Haha, my parents actually did have a LOT of rules that made living at home less than fun as an adult.  My dad's position was "He/She who pays the bills makes the rules", and he saw no reason to give me extra privileges or freedom just because I had turned 18.  You better believe I was out of there the MOMENT I graduated college.

My mom convinced him to ease up with my siblings...and guess what? They're both in their 20s and living with my parents.  

Honestly, while I hated living at home as a kidult, I will say that my dad's policy was a winner.  It lit a fire under my butt to move out, and I scrimped and saved and worked and took extra classes to make it happen ASAP. Which in turn set me up to take advantage of the crash of the housing market, which was a really great financial opportunity. 

But I probably wouldn't have left otherwise!  My parents enjoy a MUCH higher standard of living than I did and do as a young adult just starting out.  It sort of sucked to give up the perks of living the lifestyle my parents earned...so I'm happy my dad "incentivised" it for me!

[lilah]

 

Here's what I don't understand.

As smug and self-righteous as Erika has been in the past, and as unhappy as she seems now with their changes, why can't she just be a martyr and throw the rest of them under the bus? "Boohoo rebellious teens, moving out and wearing pants and ungodly etc. but I AM SO GODLY IN MY SKIRTS" - except she's started wearing pants too. And claims to be on board with sending them to public school. . While claiming that her beliefs haven't changed. I'm not saying it would be acceptable to look down her nose at her own family while riding the fundie high horse, But it would make a heck of a lot more sense than what she's actually doing.

Well if her husband supports public school and pants then she can't contradict him without commuting the ultimate fundie wife sin. So she has to save face and pretend she's okay with it while making small passive aggressive comments about her unhappiness 

[Hisey]

What's interesting to me is that Erika failed to make her fundiness stick on Karen. Yes, Karen may call herself a conservative Christian (or maybe she doesn't, who knows?) But I doubt she is going to wear only skirts, avoid fiction, go to only "pure" movies, never wear shorts and go on dates with a chaperone. I think she is going to lead a normal life.

So Erika's fundiness was a fail with her oldest (and probably Melanie, too). So different from, say, Bria Crawford or the Duggar girls, who seem to mostly parrot their parents' views.

[elliha]

11 hours ago, Hisey said:

What's interesting to me is that Erika failed to make her fundiness stick on Karen. Yes, Karen may call herself a conservative Christian (or maybe she doesn't, who knows?) But I doubt she is going to wear only skirts, avoid fiction, go to only "pure" movies, never wear shorts and go on dates with a chaperone. I think she is going to lead a normal life.

So Erika's fundiness was a fail with her oldest (and probably Melanie, too). So different from, say, Bria Crawford or the Duggar girls, who seem to mostly parrot their parents' views.

Karen seems less religious than Melanie when you read their Google+ pages. The Shupe family was and perhaps is quite rigid but I have never seen them as that religious as in having a strong relationship with Christ. It really seems that Bob is very conservative politically and when you are in the States it is expected that you are also religious and go to church so therefore he goes to church. Erika also don't come across as religious as much as controlling and I think that neither parent is deeply religious or finds much real comfort in religion. I think that Christianity is a biproduct in their life that are part of two other interests/goals. Melanie on the other hand does seem to have a genuine religious side when I read her Google+ so she might have found something in religion that I doubt her parents have the same way. I can't see into Bob and Erika's hearts and know for sure but I have never seen any indication that they have a sincere relationship with god. I am not saying this to be mean towards them even though they probably would think that I am but it seems that they have mostly mechanically made religion a part of their life rather than have a belief and then misguidedly added too many extra-biblical features such as rigid rules about courtships and skirts only. I think that if conservative but not religious was more common in the US that Bob and Erika would belong to this cathegory or go to church a couple of times a year out of tradition or so. I think that Melanie might be the odd one out so to speak in seemingly having more of an interest in faith. 

 

[Howl]

2 hours ago, elliha said:

Erika also don't come across as religious as much as controlling and I think that neither parent is deeply religious or finds much real comfort in religion.

@elliha, Your post is such an interesting take on things and rings true. 

The Stockdale thread is on my mind.  Fundamentalist, legalistic religions also provide an extremely handy cover and rationale for those with an overwhelming need to control. 

[lilah]

Except Erica reads her bible daily. I do think it's interesting how some fun does express their religious views more while others are more bogged down with how the religious views impact their lives.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

I remember a few years ago a poster commented that she saw ericka at some homeschool conference and she complained about her older 2 children wanting more freedom and being difficult. 

I moved out the second I finished university as my parents house is not set up for so many adults (I'm one of 3) & my Dad is a difficult person. My sister also moved out straight after uni.

 My brother stayed at home until he was 28 though as he used the house more like a hotel and was barely home  

even now when I go home to visit I'm chomping at the bit to leave after a few days.  

I would have moved out after high school if I'd had the money and not been studying. 

[elliha]

52 minutes ago, lilah said:

Except Erica reads her bible daily. I do think it's interesting how some fun does express their religious views more while others are more bogged down with how the religious views impact their lives.

I consider myself religious and don't read the bible every day. The key is what you take from the bible and how that impacts your life. 

[Shiny]

@elliha I think you're spot on with that post. 

[feministxtian]

5 hours ago, elliha said:

I consider myself religious and don't read the bible every day. The key is what you take from the bible and how that impacts your life. 

This is an interesting discussion...I don't consider myself religious...however, I do make time to read my bible every day...it's something that hubs and I do as a couple. I do try to LIVE my faith, not always successfully though. That said, I am not part of the "conservative Christian" movement...I am quite conservative theologically which has led me to be quite liberal politically. 

[elliha]

13 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

This is an interesting discussion...I don't consider myself religious...however, I do make time to read my bible every day...it's something that hubs and I do as a couple. I do try to LIVE my faith, not always successfully though. That said, I am not part of the "conservative Christian" movement...I am quite conservative theologically which has led me to be quite liberal politically. 

I tend to have periods where I read the bible every day and other periods where I don't read it at all and others where I read the bible perhaps once a week or so. I don't count prayer apps or going to church when I say this but I do count reading the bible through a bible app. I have a couple reading plans that will get me through certain books and certain themes in the bible app and I like that, it provides a little more structure but I still don't manage to keep it up even with this. 

God is an important part of my life though and I think of god and how I can live my life to the best daily. I am a bit too conservative for my liberal Lutheran congregation but I am rather the most conservative in a liberal congregation than the most liberal in a more conservative one. I have started to sometimes go to another congregation within the same church but with some slightly different practices and ideas as well as my old one and I like both but for different reasons. The new one is slightly more conservative in some parts but equally or more liberal in others and not a perfect match either. "It is not about the perfect church" used to be the words of one of the older ministers which I agree with. Church is there to help and to be a support but expecting a perfect fit from imperfect humans is not possible. 

[apandaaries]

11 hours ago, elliha said:

 I think that if conservative but not religious was more common in the US that Bob and Erika would belong to this category or go to church a couple of times a year out of tradition or so.

Conservative people who go to church a few times a year definitely exist in the US.  They still overwhelmingly define themselves as "Christian," though as we all know, that term is interpreted differently depending on the person using it. 

However, certain types of conservatives cling to the definition of "Christian" more tightly than others.  I think for Erika and Bob, regular church attendance (combined with Erika's controlling personality -- she's not the kind of person who could skip something she's supposed to attend) helps bolster their status as true conservative Christians in their minds.  However, I agree with your thought that they see their church as sets of rigid rules to follow as a path to heaven v. nourishment and guidance for the soul.  Neither Erika nor Bob ever truly appears to be at peace, despite Erika's frantic efforts to keep everything perfect at all times.

[VaSportsMom]

If you failed at selling your lifestyle and values to your oldest 2 children and they were responsible for raising and teaching your other children you have to be a bit worried right now.

[elliha]

10 hours ago, amandaaries said:

Conservative people who go to church a few times a year definitely exist in the US.  They still overwhelmingly define themselves as "Christian," though as we all know, that term is interpreted differently depending on the person using it. 

 

Of course they exist, it is just that in my country conservatives aren't really that much more religious than the average person and the link is much much weaker. Most people politically conservative are not religious or very mildly religious. We do have people who are conservative both politically and religiously but they are a minor group really. There are plenty of atheist conservatives.

[Snarf Snarfblort]

On 16/06/2017 at 9:43 PM, Hisey said:

What's interesting to me is that Erika failed to make her fundiness stick on Karen. Yes, Karen may call herself a conservative Christian (or maybe she doesn't, who knows?) But I doubt she is going to wear only skirts, avoid fiction, go to only "pure" movies, never wear shorts and go on dates with a chaperone. I think she is going to lead a normal life.

So Erika's fundiness was a fail with her oldest (and probably Melanie, too). So different from, say, Bria Crawford or the Duggar girls, who seem to mostly parrot their parents' views.

There's a picture on Karen's FB of her and Melanie aged 7-ish or 8-ish wearing shorts, so I think Erika's doubling down into fundiedom came when the older girls were old enough to remember a life before (Cf. Duggars, who became fundamentalists when Josh was a toddler).  That has got to be one of the reasons it hasn't stuck for them.

[mango_fandango]

Yup. According to the old blog, Erika states that they began wearing skirts full-time around the time she was pregnant with baby #6 (Tyler). This was in 2007 so I think the oldest girls were about 9 and 8. Even after this, the younger girls were allowed to wear swim shorts at the beach, and Karen and Melanie could wear wetsuits when they went to Puget Sound.

[Anonymousguest]

I think she was never as conservative as she appeared. She could present any face she wanted to the public on her blog. As others have mentioned, her thing wasn't pushing fundamentalism Christianity, but rather schedules and organization to big families. She tried some things on and it's turned out to not work for the family, so she's going a different way. Why she won't actually say that is a mystery. 

 

[Eternalbluepearl]

57 minutes ago, Anonymousguest said:

She tried some things on and it's turned out to not work for the family, so she's going a different way. Why she won't actually say that is a mystery. 

 

Maybe following the Maxwells' blog finally scared her enough to realize she needed to tone it down or she'd end up with 9 adult children at home waiting on the Lord. 

[Hisey]

I always felt that Erika went slightly crazy when she was faced with dealing with four (4!) babies under aged 2, as well as 5 older children in the bargain. How could she not? It would make me, nuts, too, although I hope I wouldn't embrace Christian fundamentalism.

[Bazinga]

I want to share some input. I wrote about this many years ago, but has probably since been forgotten. I attended a homeschool conference in WA State back in 2013. At the time, my husband and I lived in a very poor/low-academic town due to my husband's job and we were looking into homeschooling as another option for our family. I had been on FJ for years (back since the Yuku days) and was well aware of who Erika was and knew there was a chance I might spot her at the conference.

I was pretty giddy when I ended up in the same seminar with her. It was about homeschooling through high school. I remember very clearly she asked the presenter in the Q & A "how can you force a child to want to homeschool through high school." She then went on to describe how her eldest was giving her some hassle about homeschooling. I don't remember what was said in return from the presenter, but I remembered thinking "well...well...well, things aren't all smiles and rainbows as they appear in crazy town."

I think this is evidence that Karen hasn't been into this for quite some time. That would have been right around the time Karen would be entering high school. This is all speculative, but I am wondering if the quick turn-around is due to threats from a severed relationship with their daughter. In which case I can commend them for choosing a relationship with their child over their over bearing homeschool beliefs.

[ViolaSebastian]

15 minutes ago, Bazinga said:

...but I remembered thinking "well...well...well, things aren't all smiles and rainbows as they appear in crazy town."

 

I feel like if Free Jinger could be summed up in one sentence, this would be it. 

[Zola]

My impression is that it's maybe a combination of older girls being done with the life Erika wanted and Erika herself having some sort of breakdown from the stress of trying to keep up with what was obviously too much for her to handle.

Too many kids too close together in age and no one other than the two eldest daughters to help - not many people are cut out to live that life. Doesn't seem Erika is.

When you have to keep young children up late at night to make them nap in the afternoon (when they don't need naps and wouldn't be asleep during daytime if you hadn't kept them up til 10:30 pm) just so you can rest yourself, you have too much to handle. 

When you have to split up your 9 children in separate rooms and demand they play alone quietly and not talk to each other because you want more quiet, you have too much to handle.

When you have to wake your 12 year old daughter up in the middle of the night to help you feed and care for your infant twins - while your husband sleeps - you have too much to handle.

Who could maintain a life like that for very long? With all of those rules and schedules, desperate to control every little thing? She clearly wasn't happy, and I'm willing to bet no one else was, either. 

I'm not surprised things changed, but I am surprised they changed as much as they have as quickly as they have. Karen moving out, having a boyfriend - don't look back, honey, just GO! You've been working as hard as an adult, as much if not more than your mother, and you deserve your time now. Next up, Melanie!

[Foudeb]

All the littles may just have been too much for her to homeschool at once without Karen's and Melanie's help. With Karen out of the house for large chunks of time her entire system may just have collapsed under its own weight.