Family Living on Purpose (FLOP) : Erika Shupe Pt 11

[Koala]

In Erika's cover photo, she is wearing shorts.

[Howl]

Well knock me over with a feather and call me Bob.  Call me Bob, it's a figure of speech and I don't mean Bob Shupe.  A cover photo means announcing Big. Changes. Have. Been. Made.  Loved seeing the entire fam riding bikes.  That is beyond awesome (cyclist here). 

What's next?  No I mean it.  WHAT THE HECK IS NEXT at Casa Shupe?  Yoga pants? I'm betting yoga pants to go to the gym. 

 

 

 

[older than allosaurs]

We had dinner last night at the restaurant Karen bakes for. It's a nice place and seems like a congenial staff. I ordered a dacquoise pastry in her honor. It was great.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think a lot of "fundies" are just doing it as a phase. Like a person would go through a vegan phase or an obsession with crossfire phase. I'm not putting people down who are vegan or crossfit. I was vegan or vegetarian for many years. 

Here's how I see it. Lots of these fundie families weren't raised this way. Sure there are second or third generations, but I bet there are way more first gens that we never hear about. Probably because they did the fundie thing and only lasted a decade or less before giving it up. 

This isn't like the Amish who have been doing this for many generations. These people tend to have plenty of relatives and acquaintances that aren't fundie. They witness other families falling apart although they did everything right. And I think that some fundies do actually start their major transformations into more mainstream life by just starting with baby steps like wear pants or shorts. People on FJ like to constantly remind everyone that pants don't mean they aren't fundie anymore and I actually agree. But I think that those baby steps can be good for opening up certain fundie minds. I think that some fundies can take a small step like wearing pants and see for themselves that they are no less feminine or Christian by wearing a them. That they are comfortable and practical and won't send them straight to hell. I think that very often once a fundie (that wasn't completely drowned in the kool-aid) sees how they can still be decent people while not following every single silly rule, they start to question other rules. Especially rules that make their lives more difficult (example: only having female OBGYNs, wearing skirts always, strict gender roles).

[Georgiana]

I completely agree with you @JermajestyDuggar.  Some people just "need" a group to belong to, whether it's a sporting thing or a religious thing or a political thing.  If you ask me (and nobody did), I think it is because those people lack the introspection necessary to truly cultivate their own personal identity...so they look to external groups and labels to define them.

Being a fundie used to tell Erika who to be.  She didn't have to bother with any of that thinking for herself nonsense.  And I am sure that soon enough, she will find another group who will tell her how to live her life, and she will glomp on.  Though hopefully next time she will not drag her family along with her.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

29 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

I completely agree with you @JermajestyDuggar.  Some people just "need" a group to belong to, whether it's a sporting thing or a religious thing or a political thing.  If you ask me (and nobody did), I think it is because those people lack the introspection necessary to truly cultivate their own personal identity...so they look to external groups and labels to define them.

Being a fundie used to tell Erika who to be.  She didn't have to bother with any of that thinking for herself nonsense.  And I am sure that soon enough, she will find another group who will tell her how to live her life, and she will glomp on.  Though hopefully next time she will not drag her family along with her.  

The fundies that jump head first and do a total 180 in a short period of time are the ones I watch to eventually drop out. Especially if they talk endlessly about it as if they are trying to convince themselves. They definitely seem to be the ones looking for something to fix their all problems and need to be told exactly how to do it. 

I don't think JB Duggar did a huge 180 in a short time. From how they talk, it was little by little. He grew up Christians and going to a Christian school. He got Michelle "saved" as a teen. He and Michelle kissed before marriage and probably groped like many Christian teens did in the 80s. They used birth control for awhile. They had gone to one or two Gothard seminars before going full Fundie if I remember correctly. The miscarriage happened and then they decided against birth control. Then when josh as 4 or 5 they looked into homeschooling and that's when even Gothard shit really took off for them. But there were little changes that led up to their fundie conversion. The Duggar conversion wouldn't make me think they  would ditch fundiedom in a decade. But I'm totally side eyeing the guy dating Hannah Richardson. He did a huge 180 in a short time and moved across the country for her. I doubt his conversion will last a decade.

[December]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think a lot of "fundies" are just doing it as a phase.

It'll be very interesting to see where all the fundie stuff goes in the next 10-20 years for this reason. It's definitely easier to reach for a premade identity (of any sort, not just religious), at least at first. But if people don't make accommodations for their individual needs, it's going to get miserable really quickly or they'll fall away from that lifestyle in time. 

Based on personal observations, there must be some law that the more quickly and loudly someone makes a change, the more likely they are to drop it in a few months/years. And vice versa.  

10 hours ago, Koala said:

In Erika's cover photo, she is wearing shorts.

 (But seriously, I hope it's a sign of good things for their family.)

[Corntree]

Eric Hoffer wrote a great, classic book called "The True Believer." Basically, a true believer is someone who will believe in a cause/group/religion 100% and then end up switching to believing in a totally different group with the same amount of passion. Hoffer thought that for people like this, it didn't really matter what they believed, just that they believed it completely and absolutely, which is how they could suddenly believe something radically different from what they previously believed. Now that I type all this out, I'm not sure it applies to Erika Shupe, but I'm going to leave it here b/c it's interesting, damnit! And there are definitely people out there, including some religious types, who fit into that category.

Based on what PP said on his blog about meeting and marrying Zsu, I think she did a total 180 pretty damn fast. He said they initially argued about things like killing gay people, but she seemed to end up accepting it all pretty quickly. She went from total heathen to saved fundie prety quickly when she was visiting PP in the US, and then they got married about 5 minutes later. I wonder why she was so easily swayed by PP, and if she ever doubts her fundie beliefs these days. Anyway, this is all OT, so carry on about the Shupes!

[Lurky]

The "just a phase" thing make total sense, @JermajestyDuggar - the thing that kills me is this isn't like veganism or crossfit, or über-green etc, because it has such ramifications on the kids, and risks hurting them forever.  The older Shupes and Jeubs can't get those years of SOTDRT back, though their siblings are in school, and the damage to their psyches is huge.

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 hours ago, Corntree said:

Based on what PP said on his blog about meeting and marrying Zsu, I think she did a total 180 pretty damn fast. He said they initially argued about things like killing gay people, but she seemed to end up accepting it all pretty quickly. She went from total heathen to saved fundie prety quickly when she was visiting PP in the US, and then they got married about 5 minutes later. I wonder why she was so easily swayed by PP, and if she ever doubts her fundie beliefs these days.

I think Zoo has had doubts over the years. I've read posts where I've thought to myself, "she seems to be trying to convince herself more than her readers." I think Zoo's doubts have come up more and more over the last few years. Things are becoming more difficult in the Anderson house. When they only had five or six, she had everything under control. Everyone fit in the house. She was able to homeschool and do special projects with the children. She had time for her own interests. They had enough money to support them. Since then, she had a very difficult twinnpregnancy with a lot of doctor appointments. She lost a twin. She starved Chloe. Pp was thrown out of a country and she had only scramble to raise funds for him to get home. And now she's pregnant with #10. I'm just waiting for her to go over the edge. She's way too deep now to make any changes. Plus she's too proud to admit she was wrong about many fundamental things. 

[Luisainlondon1]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think Zoo has had doubts over the years. I've read posts where I've thought to myself, "she seems to be trying to convince herself more than her readers." I think Zoo's doubts have come up more and more over the last few years. Things are becoming more difficult in the Anderson house. When they only had five or six, she had everything under control. Everyone fit in the house. She was able to homeschool and do special projects with the children. She had time for her own interests. They had enough money to support them. Since then, she had a very difficult twinnpregnancy with a lot of doctor appointments. She lost a twin. She starved Chloe. Pp was thrown out of a country and she had only scramble to raise funds for him to get home. And now she's pregnant with #10. I'm just waiting for her to go over the edge. She's way too deep now to make any changes. Plus she's too proud to admit she was wrong about many fundamental things. 

I feel the same. She doesn't come across as very religious. Compared to other fundie bloggers she hardly ever mentioned God. She was in love with a guy probably for the first time and would go along with whatever he said. Now she is stuck. 

Unfortunately I doubt that Zsu's kids will ever be free to do whatever they want in their lifes. But I have a lot of hope for the Shupe kids. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think that if the Duggars had not become Gothardites, they probably would've still been fairly religious. They probably would hold quite a few of the same beliefs. However I think that if they didn't have the miscarriage and then were told by the dr that BC did it, they probably would have maybe 3 kids and would have sent them to a private Christian school. JB would probably still be all about buy used and save the difference and managing rental properties. And Michelle would probably be on the school board and still a SAHM. Maybe sell an MLM or work very part time. Maybe watching other people's kids in their home. They would be heavily involved in  their local baptist church and wear regular modest types of clothing. So if the Duggars did become less strict with their Gothard/fundie rules, I doubt they would do anything extreme. Because their change into being fundie wasn't a huge change to begin with.

[Gobsmacked]

8 hours ago, Luisainlondon1 said:

I feel the same. She doesn't come across as very religious. Compared to other fundie bloggers she hardly ever mentioned God. She was in love with a guy probably for the first time and would go along with whatever he said. Now she is stuck. 

Unfortunately I doubt that Zsu's kids will ever be free to do whatever they want in their lifes. But I have a lot of hope for the Shupe kids. 

Sadly the only way the kids will be free is if for some reason pp has an early death. I'm not wishing that to happen because his kids may love him. If he did shuffle of early though I'm guessing that zsuzsu ( who does appear to love her kids) will be able to relax a bit. No more pregnancies. The older boys will be earning something. The younger kids can go to school. Zsuzsu has sewing talents that could bring in a small income. Hopefully they could make it as a family without him.

[Georgiana]

I think some fundies stay because they end up becoming addicted to other aspects of the lifestyle.

Michelle was addicted to pregnancy/having an infant.  She LOVED it.  She LOVED the attention she got.  The fact that it gave her purpose and special treatment was huge for her.  I think she's...very diminished now that that stage of life is over for her.  It just seems like she's more listless, without direction, and less vibrant now, and I think that started as soon as Josie exited her extended infancy.  

Zsu likes to feel better than people.  Problem is, she isn't.  Zsu is, on all levels, very deeply mediocre.  She's competent.  She has a wide range of decent skills.  But she's never been OUTSTANDING at anything...except for being a Christian as she defines it.  Her cult gives her the ability to be the BEST (because she is making the rules), and the moment she leaves, she leaves behind being the perfect Christian Pastor's Wife and once again has to deal with the fact that she's just normal.  She would rather be ANYTHING than common, even deeply unhappy.  

[Corntree]

When I was younger, I knew two siblings in a non-fundie family of 7 kids. One of the ones I knew, who I think was the oldest, told me that her mom loved having a baby but once they hit about two years old, she got tired of them and would get pregnant so she could have a baby again. It was obvious this sibling felt resentful of and not very loved by her mother. Why do people do stuff like that? What does it feel like to know your mom just isn't as interested in you anymore b/c you left your toddler years? The world sucks sometimes.

[Hisey]

21 hours ago, Georgiana said:

I think some fundies stay because they end up becoming addicted to other aspects of the lifestyle.

Michelle was addicted to pregnancy/having an infant.  She LOVED it.  She LOVED the attention she got.  The fact that it gave her purpose and special treatment was huge for her.  I think she's...very diminished now that that stage of life is over for her.  It just seems like she's more listless, without direction, and less vibrant now, and I think that started as soon as Josie exited her extended infancy.  

Zsu likes to feel better than people.  Problem is, she isn't.  Zsu is, on all levels, very deeply mediocre.  She's competent.  She has a wide range of decent skills.  But she's never been OUTSTANDING at anything...except for being a Christian as she defines it.  Her cult gives her the ability to be the BEST (because she is making the rules), and the moment she leaves, she leaves behind being the perfect Christian Pastor's Wife and once again has to deal with the fact that she's just normal.  She would rather be ANYTHING than common, even deeply unhappy.  

People say that, but I never saw any evidence that Michelle was addicted to having babies. I remember when was pregnant with #16 or #17, she just looked sorta sad and wistful when it was announced. She didn't beam with joy over her newborns, either. Remember, she was a submissive wife, and if JB wanted more babies, she had to agree. I think he wanted them.

Now, Kelly Bates absolutely was addicted to pregnancy or babies or something. Did you see that episode where she was desperately trying to find out her pregnancy results from the doctors office, to see if she was pregnant with #19? She REALLY wanted a positive result.

[Corntree]

I do think some fundie women are addicted to having babies. It's not just about letting God control the size of your family; these women want to have as many children as possible. I remember one woman years ago on the old Titus2 boards who had a baby who couldn't have been more than 4 months old, and she said, "I can't wait for her to wean so I can get pregnant again." Like, damn. But I don't really get the impression that most fundies are making a concerted effort to have as many children as they possibly can, though they probably do want lots of kids.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I have had two kids and I can kind of see how fundie women can become addicted to aspects of having babies. Being pregnant gives a woman A LOT of attention. I hate a lot of attention so I hid in my house a lot when I was pregnant. I also wore big clothing so I didn't look pregnant. I hated random strangers commenting on my being pregnant. So in mainstream culture, women get a lot of attention for getting pregnant. And it's almost always positive. So I imagine the attention women get in fundie circles to be even greater. 

When I worked outside the home, I got lots of positive feedback from management, coworkers, clients etc. I stay at home with my kids now and there's no positive feedback really. It's a boring and thankless job. If this was my "job" in life then I can imagine feeling the need to become pregnant often. It's one of the few places you may receive praise or lots of positive attention. Plus once you get to high numbers, you get positive feedback for having such a large family for the lord. You are building god's army. And small babies will get you tons of attention. Everyone loves a baby. Especially if you breast feed them on a float

[TShirtsLongSkirts]

Oh man. Part of me is a little bit sad. The Shupes were the first thread I read on this forum after the Duggar stuff. Most of me is really really glad though that they appear to have seen "the light" and escaped fundyism. Be free, my pretties! Enjoy wearing shorts, and working, and going to school, and dating! I can only hope we see this happen to more fundie families

[JermajestyDuggar]

Your bumping the thread made me want to go check up on Karen on FB and she posted this picture today. It looks like she and a friend are having fun with makeup. This is definitely different from how they used to be. Dark make up and elf ears? That's probably too close to witch craft for fundies. But I think she looks gorgeous. 

[WEENS AND GRAVY]

10 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Your bumping the thread made me want to go check up on Karen on FB and she posted this picture today. It looks like she and a friend are having fun with makeup. This is definitely different from how they used to be. Dark make up and elf ears? That's probably too close to witch craft for fundies. But I think she looks gorgeous. 

This makes me so happy.  The Schupes were my gateway fundies.  I found them completely by accident after searching "large family organizing" or something and I've been fascinated ever since.  I'm so glad Karen has found herself outside of the Crazy! 

[mango_fandango]

In the post from October 4th, she's wearing a Gryffindor t shirt. Erika used to be anti-HP for all the usual reasons. Clearly Karen has some knowledge of it, maybe even read one or two of the books.

[usmcmom]

The FLOP Facebook group makes me laugh. Some of the questions these women ask are just so...strange? Dumb?

Somebody recently asked how she could get her four-year-old to behave more maturely!! There is a new baby in the house and he was acting...you know...like a child, so QUICK, tell me how to make him be a tiny adult.  

They ask things like "How can I entertain my toddler while I homeschool?"  "What are some one-on-one activities I can do with my eight-year-old?" 

Maybe I am way off base here, but if you need a bunch of complete strangers to tell you these things, maybe a large family just is not for you. 

Also, Erika does not respond to these posts. She only shows up to promote those hair accessories she sells or a friend's home business. 

[elliha]

After some spying on Erika's and Bob's facebook pages they seem to have updated the girls bedroom with new colors. It is gray and a bit dull but very Erika. No furniture in the picture so I cannot see if this means that they will use the former school room as a new room for the older ones. No is my guess but there is always hope until you know better I guess. Erika also seems to be selling her plates and cups so I guess she has gotten them updated. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 hours ago, elliha said:

After some spying on Erika's and Bob's facebook pages they seem to have updated the girls bedroom with new colors. It is gray and a bit dull but very Erika. No furniture in the picture so I cannot see if this means that they will use the former school room as a new room for the older ones. No is my guess but there is always hope until you know better I guess. Erika also seems to be selling her plates and cups so I guess she has gotten them updated. 

I just hope Melanie can move in with Karen soon. That would be good for them in my opinion.