Family Living on Purpose (FLOP) : Erika Shupe Pt 11

[ActualReality]

15 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Yes, lots of changes in the Shupe house. This will be the second public school year for the younger Shupe kids. They aren't skirts only anymore. And Karen moved out. The Shupes are pretty mainstream these days.

I knew that the kids were in school and i'd seen the pants.  I'm just really shocked that Karen has moved.  where did she go?

You know this is the funny thing that happens -- fundy parents are super sure of "leadings" from the lord when the kids are little.  It's easy when the kids are young enough for the parents to control everything.  Then the oldest kids grow up and prove that some of your parenting ideas were wrong or didn't work for you family.  It's a very humbling experience.  

there people are taught to believe that if you raise your kids "right" then they won't have thoughts, ideas and plans that are different from yours.  The reality of the situation is that kids are not blank slates.  I was raised in an evangelical home and extended family.  I've seen it more times than I care to count.  Kids who turned out to be gay, those who rejected the doctrine, movie lovers, those who like to dance or drink or god knows what else.  Parents of these children are blamed and shamed in their communities.  If they stick around long enough they get pity and become cautionary tales of what happens when you let "the enemy" in.  It's sad.

Meanwhile i'm thrilled for the kids to be able to enjoy some freedom and a normal childhood!  I just hope that Erika's liver can stand that triple dose of lithium that she's surely been prescribed.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

I feel like the popularity of the fundie homeschooling/courtship/SAHD movements have hit their peak and it's going to start to slow down in numbers. It's obvious now to many that you can control little kids but not adult children. And your kids turned out similarly to the kids who went to public school. It's not going to draw a lot of new people in when you have families like the Duggars and Doug Phillips showing their asses. 

[ActualReality]

30 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I feel like the popularity of the fundie homeschooling/courtship/SAHD movements have hit their peak and it's going to start to slow down in numbers. It's obvious now to many that you can control little kids but not adult children. And your kids turned out similarly to the kids who went to public school. It's not going to draw a lot of new people in when you have families like the Duggars and Doug Phillips showing their asses. 

Agreed.  Also the stress on the mothers can't be discounted.  Homeschooling a bunch of kids is CRAZY stressful and hard on the moms.  In my experience mental illness is generally disallowed in these communities.  So if you're depressed, stressed or otherwise overwhelmed you're instructed to pray and seek god rather than seek professional (or domestic) help.

As public school systems have created ways to make sure that kids get appropriate education  in a home setting (via online programs) its WAY less outside the box to be a home schooler.  Also, public school systems can easily put private peddles of homeschool materials out of business. 

[December]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I feel like the popularity of the fundie homeschooling/courtship/SAHD movements have hit their peak and it's going to start to slow down in numbers. It's obvious now to many that you can control little kids but not adult children.

Considering the timeline of when these movements started to really gain steam, it makes sense. It's a lot easier to convince people that an experiment will work when it hasn't gone on long enough to see the full results. I'd imagine some people have questions as to why courtships always don't work out in these families doing everything "right" or why some young women appear to be perpetual SAHDs. 

3 hours ago, ActualReality said:

You know this is the funny thing that happens -- fundy parents are super sure of "leadings" from the lord when the kids are little.  It's easy when the kids are young enough for the parents to control everything.

Not to mention, it's often very easy to get children on board with an idea or activity. Kids often love to emulate their parents, do things that please them, etc. It's a bit silly when people hold up examples of their young kids' behavior as "proof" that they're as committed to the beliefs as the parents; the kids very well might be, but that's not something you can really concretely assess until they're older.

I knew plenty of kids who nodded along with their parents' religious beliefs, but dropped them the second they left home. Others drifted away from their parents' religion (and often got involved in different denominations or faiths) as they experienced more of the world. 

[ActualReality]

2 hours ago, December said:

Not to mention, it's often very easy to get children on board with an idea or activity. Kids often love to emulate their parents, do things that please them, etc. It's a bit silly when people hold up examples of their young kids' behavior as "proof" that they're as committed to the beliefs as the parents; the kids very well might be, but that's not something you can really concretely assess until they're older.

I knew plenty of kids who nodded along with their parents' religious beliefs, but dropped them the second they left home. Others drifted away from their parents' religion (and often got involved in different denominations or faiths) as they experienced more of the world. 

This exactly!

re: the bolded.  I always say that parenting is a great experiment where you don't get to see the results for 20 years.

Even if a child disagrees most don't have the power or willingness to voice dissent until they're much older.  My mom became a fundy when I was 5.  By the time I was 6 I knew that it wasn't for me.  It's not like I could get an apartment in the second grade and leave home.  So I stayed quite and bided my time.  For the most part it wasn't horrible but I always knew that that faith path was not the one for me.

Recently I ran into a childhood friend who's still a part of the church.  He was a TOTAL hellraiser as a kid but he recommitted himself to religion as an adult.  I told him that I knew as a kid that I wasn't staying in that church.  His response "oh the devil got you early."  You can't even have a sane conversation after a comment like that.  It couldn't be that I disagreed with his faith - had to be the debbil.  Ok dude.

Also for what it's worth - Karen is renting a room in the home of a friend.  Sounds like she's escaping the family compound.  Run Karen Run!

[mango_fandango]

I just noticed something. In recent photos (from around middle of July onwards) Karen appears to have a nose piercing. In a photo taken on the 14th it's not there, then in another from the 16th it is there. Wonder how Erika reacted. Erika's always been pro-pierced ears (all the girls had them done at a young age, she specifically mentioned in the old twins post that she was happy when the twins turned 3 months and could get their ears pierced so she could tell them apart) but she never said anything about other piercings. Erika may not be happy but she's probably long since realised that she no longer has control over Karen.

[withaj]

20 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

I just noticed something. In recent photos (from around middle of July onwards) Karen appears to have a nose piercing. In a photo taken on the 14th it's not there, then in another from the 16th it is there. Wonder how Erika reacted. Erika's always been pro-pierced ears (all the girls had them done at a young age, she specifically mentioned in the old twins post that she was happy when the twins turned 3 months and could get their ears pierced so she could tell them apart) but she never said anything about other piercings. Erika may not be happy but she's probably long since realised that she no longer has control over Karen.

I *think* Karen has posted comments indicating it's a clip-on nose ring (or whatever the equivalent to clip-on earrings is). Could be wrong though.

[mango_fandango]

I haven't actually seen any comments from anyone about the nose piercing. If it is fake, I wonder if she's possibly considering getting one, and is testing out what having one would be like. It looks like a stud to me, there's no ring going round into her nostril. It'd have to be either magnetic or a stuck-on fake gem. 

[ActualReality]

I have to say that i'm really loving Karen's rebel spirit.  It must be really trying for Erika but ultimately may save the childhood of the other kids.  Seems like Karen broke ranks as soon as she could and suddenly the flood gates opened.  Everyone is in pants, the little kids are in public school and Erika's blogging has GREATLY decreased.  Wonder what's next?

*  Will the older girls date instead of court

* Might someone in that house eat a steak!?

The possibilities are ENDLESS!

[DaisyD]

Just a friendly reminder that, no matter the likelihood, speculating that one of these children is gay is a very slippery slope. Please word your thoughts carefully. 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think Karen will eventually get a tattoo and some other piercing. She seems to be dipping her toes into rebellion and I actually think that's the best route to go. Because when you go full on wild rebellion in a short amount of time, it's more likely you'll have a lot of negative consequences along with possibly going back to the fundie life later on. 

If you just dip your toes in slowly, you don't have a lot of negative consequences and it helps you realize that you can live a different way from your parents and lead a good happy life. 

If you go crazy wild with drinking, partying, and drugs, then you might end up in jail, the hospital, or on the streets. Then your parents can say, "I told you so. Now come home and do what I say and you won't end up hurt again."

[Howl]

Part of that rebellion might include subversive, previously forbidden activities, like spending a Saturday drawing and painting or reading a book of one's own choosing. 

[Eternalbluepearl]

On 8/16/2017 at 0:59 PM, December said:

I knew plenty of kids who nodded along with their parents' religious beliefs, but dropped them the second they left home. Others drifted away from their parents' religion (and often got involved in different denominations or faiths) as they experienced more of the world. 

This topic reminds me of a quote. I read this in a book once and I am paraphrasing but it said something close to: "You can give your children your love, but never your thoughts, for their thoughts are always their own." I'm not a parent yet but this has stuck with me for years. 

[Hisey]

I apologize if this has already been posted. IT's an article, written by "1st Lt. Bob Shupe" about a Civil Air Patrol that is organized in Skagit County. Brandon is in it, also, and there are two pictures of him. This explains why he was up in the cockpit of an airplane in a photo earlier this month. Interesting that he will also be given the opportunity to ride in a glider!

The contradictions astound me. Erika was too afraid to let her boys play in mud, or read a book that she hadn't pre-approved. But it's OK for Brandon to fly in a single-engine plane or ride in a glider?

I'm glad Brandon is getting out of the house, and doing something that will build his confidence (inthe photo, he seems to be taking the whole thing very seriously). Still, it is suprising this something Erika would be OK with.

 

http://www.skagitbreaking.com/2017/08/05/civil-air-patrols-new-concrete-flight-provides-opportunities-youth-adults/

[mango_fandango]

That's definitely Bob in one of the photos, with Brandon. It seems like it's a volunteer thing. He still appears to work for his cleaning company that he set up with Erika's brother. 

Things have changed hugely at Casa Shupe. I wonder if we'll ever know why...

[EmiGirl]

11 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

That's definitely Bob in one of the photos, with Brandon. It seems like it's a volunteer thing. He still appears to work for his cleaning company that he set up with Erika's brother. 

Things have changed hugely at Casa Shupe. I wonder if we'll ever know why...

Idle speculation of course, but I think Bob finally had enough of the insanity. I've always thought the fubdy lifestyle was 100% erika.

[Anonymousguest]

In my homeschooling circles Civil Air Patrol is pretty common.  It funnels a lot of these boys into the missionary pilot path. It doesn't at all say to me "we are giving up the Fundy Life style."

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 hours ago, EmiGirl said:

Idle speculation of course, but I think Bob finally had enough of the insanity. I've always thought the fubdy lifestyle was 100% erika.

Especially if it was causing Erika extreme stress that could then affect her physical health. And he is the man of the house. So I guess he gets the final say. 

[lawlifelgbt]

I don't also wonder whether one of the kids started having problems due to the fundie lifestyle? 

I know much was made of an FB post where Karen said how important Melanie was to her, and that Melanie has made sad sounding Internet comments. A huge amount of teenagers, girls especially, self-harm and/or struggle with depression. And the insular lifestyle and rejection of counseling only makes problems worse. Perhaps one of the kids was doing really badly, so Bob put his foot down.

Better to have your kids alive, with a changed lifestyle, than injured/damaged/dead fundies.

or, considering how Erika was going to her parents' more often, perhaps she and Bob were going to divorce if nothing changed.

[December]

On 8/17/2017 at 8:23 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Because when you go full on wild rebellion in a short amount of time, it's more likely you'll have a lot of negative consequences along with possibly going back to the fundie life later on. 

If you just dip your toes in slowly, you don't have a lot of negative consequences and it helps you realize that you can live a different way from your parents and lead a good happy life. 

So true! It's a lot like college, when kids from super strict homes tend to go wild partying and suffer the consequences. Meanwhile, the kids who just go to parties to unwind and have a couple of drinks are usually fine. 

I suppose if you're used to all "rebellion" being forbidden, it's harder to tell the difference between a little and a LOT of rebellion and interpret the risks accordingly. 

[So-Virgin-It-Hurts]

I wondered if some of the kids, were assessed using standardized tests and Bob learned just how far behind and poorly prepared for the world they were.  Both Bob and Erika went to college, state university I believe.  How awful to learn that your kids wouldn't even have that option (assuming it would be affordable).  

[SoybeanQueen]

On 8/16/2017 at 9:53 AM, ActualReality said:

Also, public school systems can easily put private peddles of homeschool materials out of business. 

I agree, it's pretty normal to be a homeschooler these days. Disagree that the public-school-at-home materials will put masses of other curriculum makers out of business. The materials used by public schools have been available to homeschooling families already. Many consider them inferior to other things that are available. They primarily only engage the lower domains of Bloom's taxonomy, especially as used in the at-home public school model.

There isn't generally a lot of support for the inflexibility and testing focus of online public school among homeschooling families. Most are not looking to outsource education, as tailoring it to their child is often the reason they started.

Don't get me wrong - it would be a good option for some big families versus what they're doing (or not doing) now, especially if the mega-mom is checked out or incapable. But those families don't accurately represent the majority of homeschoolers.

[Howl]

On 8/17/2017 at 9:57 PM, Hisey said:

Interesting that he [Brandon] will also be given the opportunity to ride in a glider!

FAA minimum requirements. Student pilots may solo at a minimum age of 14 with a student certificate endorsed for solo flight at the discretion of a FAA-Certified Flight Instructor for Gliders (CFIG). Generally, 30 to 40 flights with a CFIG are required to solo.

This is so awesome! Relative is a flight instructor with numerous high-school aged glider students and they love gliding!  

Those Shupe kids just needed to get the hell out of the house and experience life and it sounds as though that is happening, with public school being a key factor. Let's just hope that the girls are given the same opportunities as the boys.  

A bit more about CAP from WIKI: 

Quote

The Civil Air Patrol (CAP) is a congressionally chartered, federally supported non-profit corporation that serves as the official civilian auxiliary of the United States Air Force (USAF).[3] CAP is a volunteer organization with an aviation-minded membership that includes people from all backgrounds, lifestyles, and occupations. It performs three congressionally assigned key missions: emergency services, which includes search and rescue (by air and ground) and disaster relief operations; aerospace education for youth and the general public; and cadet programs for teenage youth.

 

[Hisey]

On 8/19/2017 at 11:30 AM, SoybeanQueen said:

I agree, it's pretty normal to be a homeschooler these days. Disagree that the public-school-at-home materials will put masses of other curriculum makers out of business. The materials used by public schools have been available to homeschooling families already. Many consider them inferior to other things that are available. They primarily only engage the lower domains of Bloom's taxonomy, especially as used in the at-home public school model.

There isn't generally a lot of support for the inflexibility and testing focus of online public school among homeschooling families. Most are not looking to outsource education, as tailoring it to their child is often the reason they started.

 

My experience is that many homeschooling families have a distorted view of public school. For example, testing. There are schools that de-emphasize testing and inform parents of their option to opt-out. Other schools give the state-mandated tests because they ahve to, but they don't focus their teaching on it. 

 It always make me laugh when fundies talk about "sitting at a desk for 8 hours a day." I've spent a lot of time in elementary schools in the last few years, and the teachers know to keep those little ones moving! They are always going from station to station, or activity to activity or class to class. They don't sit at desks, anyway, they sit at tables with a few of their peers. There are special chairs that allow them to move and wiggle. It's not like it once was.

Don't get me wrong, I would've loved to homeschool and think it is a great option. However,my kids loved their school friends too much to ever want to leave. Plus, they were good at school and so they got a lot of confidence from excelling. But I don't like to hear homeschoolers (who often haven't been in a public school in 20 years) describe the public school experience like it was 1960. 

And the public school textbooks are available to anyone with an Amazon account. I frequently buy my daughters a used copy of their heaviest books, so they don't have to lug them back and forth. You can also purchase an online copy, or rent a copy. School textbooks are published by educational publishers, who will generally sell to anyone.

[Hane]

A little OT:  My nine-year-old grandson actually loves standardized tests--he says  he thrives on the peace and quiet!