Adoptive "Mothers" 3: Women Who Don't Deserve Mother's Day

[freejugar]

So she doesn't like sissy and blossom so she'll kick them out but she likes jiejie so she gets to stay. What will happen to jie jie when kimmy dies?

She's assuming Apple won't have disabilities and that might not be the case.

[sawasdee]

If we can believe Kimmie, then Sissie has gone backwards since living with her. When she first arrived, Kimmie stopped her communicating with friends via the Chinese version of Facebook. If she knew how to do that, then , why is she so unable, according to Kimmie, to function now?

[Edhelfin]

A question for those in the USA - is it possible to keep an adult in a group home although she believes she does not have to be there? What kind of rights or authority would Kimmie have on Sissy and Blossom?

Sissy indeed sounds like Kimmie's 'homeschooling' or thinking that leaving her children in the care of strangers is a bad thing (see her bishop post) limited her opportunities. This is not a temporary damage - for example, how will Sissy communicate in a group home - since Kimmie did not really make her language lessons fun or productive, she put the girls down when they made a linguistic mistake and as a result, she seems to have limited language skills (I have a Chinese friend, hell, she is a PhD candidate and she says 'foo'. She is certainly not 'lazy'!). Kimmie engraved in Sissy's mind that she is unable to do this and that - how will she function in her adult life with Kimmie's voice always in the background? Whenever she reaches for a new task (for example, when she is learning to cook) mamma in her mind will remind her how she is unable to do it! Kids and teenagers, especially vulnerable ones, do  have harder time forgetting criticism. Kimmie gave her unproductive criticism in the WORST time of Sissy's life - adolescence, just when she is trying to build confidence.

I do not know enough about group homes, but would a room shared with a stranger (Kimmie had to add that punching story there as if people are not worried enough) or communal dining areas trigger memories of an orphanage setting in Sissy's mind and as a result, make her feel like she went back in time or abandoned?

My questions may sound stupid but my knowledge about these things are limited so any answer would be appreciated. To me, it seems like Sissy is stuck between Kimmie's house of dolls and a setting she may not feel comfortable in. That is all because Kimmie bit more than she can chew. She thinks  that at least she saved this poor girl from China and brought her to Christian soul (like Vicky) but in her arrogance, she stopped Sissy from getting the help she needs.

Since she is reading here: you are a BAD, BAD mother Kimmie. You may take care of several cats, do a lot of handcrafts, manage a daycare and handle a lot of tasks in one day  (which creates the delusion in your mind that you are capable of doing EVERYTHING - she calls herself supermum) but you are not qualified to provide the educational and emotional needs of vulnerable teenagers, end of story. You should have stepped back and let the professionals do their work but your pride damaged Sissy and possibly Blossom. Accept your limitations before you mess up Apple and Jie Jie as well.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Edhelfin

[littlemommy]

We had a supported living program at the agency I worked at in Missouri. I only had one client out of the around 50 that lived throughout all the houses (they were 8 plex apartment buildings, with 2 clients per each 2 bedroom apartment) that didn't want to be there. As there was a huge waiting list to get in, I believe that (almost) any client that didn't want to be there would be moved out, because if they were actively resistant we couldn't very well imprison them there, nor would we want to. 

The one lady that did not want to be there, and we tried to convince constantly to stay (we wouldn't restrain her, ever, or lock her in or anything like that) was a mentally disabled woman who had been convicted of having sex with a minor when she was in her early 20s. She didn't know it was illegal, and he was a teenager at the time...it was a big kerfluffle. Anyway, the judge, seeing that she had special needs, though very high functioning, didn't put her in jail, but said she had to stay in a group home/supported living/something similar. Her parole officer was part of her independent planning team. He was a really nice guy, a lot more no nonsense and full of "straight talk" that we were used to dealing with. She constantly wanted to leave and live with "normal" people. She was a lot more functional than our other clients but was very easily taken advantage of in the community. The one time her parole officer let her try something like that she ended up sexually assaulted, so he was stridently against it. But the entire time I worked there she wanted to leave, and finally we had to develop a plan so she could. She wasn't a prisoner, though the judge's order complicated things. 

[FundieFarmer]

I found this comment on the post from the bishop. This lady was right 2 years ago, and she's still right today. Sheesh, what a sad state of affairs.

I have no doubt that Kimi's constant "Oh no, you can't do that" has indeed imprinted on the girls, limiting them far more than they should be- and I hate that.

[Mirla]

In response to kimmie's long term plans...

It was a good question, and I'm glad Kimmie took the time to answer it.

- On the plus side, Kimmie admits to still being in the learning phase, and seems to be keeping her options open a bit.  I'm also hopeful that the ATP will be able to help Sissy.  I've seen the one around here really help people achieve their goals.

- She says her 3 oldest won't be able to live independently, but then lists independent living as an option.   Yeah, I know, independent living often has group meals and housekeeping and stuff, but it still seemed odd.

- I read a very informative article about helping the developmentally disabled choose housing options, and it made a great point that  almost everyone needs some kind of support, not just the disabled.  Even Kimmie needs her Fireman to provide support.  Needing support, then, isn't really anything special.  I'm hoping Kimmie keeps in mind the huge gap between "needs support" and "group home."  

- Does Kimmie have any idea how many non-disabled adults can't, won't, or don't cook?  That seems to be a really poor measure.  By that measure, my dad would have been considered a candidate for a group home until he learned to cook as a retiree.

- Jie Jie will likely be with Kimmie, and Sissy will likely be outside the home, not because it's the best way to help those girls achieve their goals,  but because it's what's best for Kimmie.  And Sissy is so stunted she will never be able to cook pasta or fry an egg, but she is fully capable of changing her behaviors, because Kimmie says so.

- I am shocked to say this, but I actually liked Kimmie's thoughts on Blossom, because they focused on what Blossom would like.

- I'm going to think positively, and assume that Kimmie will consider the warning about group homes with all her girls, not just Blossom.

- Someone should give Kimmie the good news that she doesn't have to make decisions for her daughters when they are adults.  I see no reason why her daughters can not make these decisions for themselves, with the appropriate supports, of course.  Kmmie's great burden will surely be lifted.
 

[Stormy]

The part where Sissy wants to stay home (in spite of all things) breaks my heart.

What keeps bothering me is that it's hard to properly assess the situation due to Kimi's dubious credibility; are her girls' delays merely due to linguistic issues, isolation, and/or sub-par homeschooling? Is Kimi outright shopping for diagnoses? Or is she actually right about her children's special needs, but is just needlessly cruel about it?

In trying to make sense of it: the confusion boils down to Kimi's contradictions, such as her alleging Sissy comprehending the "how" of tasks but not the "why", and yet being able disable alarm systems ("how") to avoid detection ("why"). Another thing is her inconsistent privacy management, particularly regarding Jie Jie; there's Jie Jie's unspecified genetic condition that's caused her to regress, as well as her unspecified "special need" that Kimi mentioned at the beginning of her adoption. Kimi wouldn't disclose the latter to "respect her privacy", but is clearly not the type to shy from sharing loads of embarrassing personal information about all of her girls. I know what Kimi does is wrong, but it's difficult to pinpoint in what way; we don't know if Sissy's acting out because she's trapped and frustrated, or if it's because she's truly is as disabled as Kimi claims. Even if it's the latter, however, there's still the issue of the never-ending public contempt this woman has for her child.

What I can conclude is that Kimi's a very mean old lady.

[Edhelfin]

Sissy's 'incapabilities' - the poor girl was helping a lot of carers in the orphanage with babies, she was also quite tech savvy, e-mailing Kimmie, at one point even passing her helpful information she needed for the adoption, some contacts or something.

http://fencingmama.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/

I also remember Kimmie vetoing her QQ time with her friends in China because she wanted her to 'bond with mama' instead. When Sissy wanted to bond with her sisters, Kimmie banned this saying Sissy would corrupt them if they spoke in Chinese and be alone, because she wanted her to 'bond with mama' instead. When she tried to speak English, she interrupted and corrected every sentence and then made fun of it on her blog. No wonder Sissy 'regressed' since she came to Kimmie's house. Her ability to use her own language and English was met with unproductive attitude.

http://fencingmama.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/the-hardest-thing-about-it-all.html

Edited June 18, 2017 by Edhelfin

[SoGladIWasCofE]

I wonder if any disability assessments were done with a translator. 

It may also be that sissy knows how to say how, because kimi has told her, but doesn't know the words for why, because kimi hasn't modelled the sentence structure. I imagine sissy isn't very confident experimenting we with language to express things.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Avery's out again, flip-flop, flip-flop.

[Georgiana]

On 6/18/2017 at 5:29 AM, SoGladIWasCofE said:

I wonder if any disability assessments were done with a translator. 

It may also be that sissy knows how to say how, because kimi has told her, but doesn't know the words for why, because kimi hasn't modelled the sentence structure. I imagine sissy isn't very confident experimenting we with language to express things.

There also could be a cultural gap here.  In China, learning is done a lot by rote.  Children are not as encouraged to understand WHY the answer is what it is, rather, they are simply encouraged to be able to produce the correct answer when asked.  So "How?" (which in Mandarin also directly inquires into the performing mechanics of a task) is what Sissy would have been raised to ask.  HOW do I get from A to B?  That's what's important in the Chinese educational system.  Not "Why?".  In fact, in many cases asking why would be considered inappropriate or even disrespectful.

You can almost EASILY fluster a very smart, advanced degree holding Chinese person by asking them why they do something.  International students who come to Western universities often struggle with having to think of and provide the why.  It is something that is openly and commonly discussed with regard to Chinese culture, current affairs, and childhood development, and if Kimi even somewhat tried to educate herself she would know that.  

Not asking why probably has little to do with Sissy being delayed or behind.  It's probably got everything to do with the fact that this is how she was explicitly taught growing up, and Kimi never took the time to help her expand into thinking about the why.    

[littlemommy]

So, Avery (from Expecting Something So Big From God) was put in an inpatient facility, and there is a post on it. The first commenter? "K"...aka "Kimmi". What a gem. She says that she doesn't allow the girls to talk to one another unless she is in the room...says it's to combat bullying behavior. Yeah, there's a bully in the room, and she's the mean bitch that sews all those baby clothes.

[Georgiana]

14 minutes ago, littlemommy said:

 She says that she doesn't allow the girls to talk to one another unless she is in the room...says it's to combat bullying behavior.

Oh yeah, that makes sense.  That's probably why the Bolsheviks had the same policy with the Russian Imperial family.  To combat bullying.  And not because, whatever their official status, they were in fact prisoners and could not be allowed to speak privately or they might formulate a plan for resistance or escape.

But THAT'S not what K's afraid of.  Nope.  Not at all.  Just "bullying".  

[alexandracabot]

Oh my God, she doesn't let them talk to each other when she's not in the room? Those poor, poor children. 

[elliha]

Kimmie's comment is the scariest I have read from her. No free time. What kind of life is that? If they cannot handle free time this should be worked on and not necessarily by just filling their time but to help them learn what to do with free time. I doubt the eldest don't know what to do as much as they know that their request will not be granted. No talking without Kimmie being there... Are they in an isolation cell or what? They should be able to talk, in English or Mandarin freely unless they are being so loud other people cannot co-exist with them. That is what you do in a family! I can kind get restricting Mandarin during certain parts of the day to really make sure the also practice their English but when they are not actively working on that they should be able to choose. Kimmie herself should have at least a basic understanding of Mandarin living with 4 Mandarin speakers who should be able to develop their language, communicate with friends from their orphanage/s, keep contact with relatives if they are known, read news about their country of origin in their first language as well as English and have access to other Mandarin speakers in the US. Robbing them of their first language is cruel especially if they do have developmental delays (which they might but I think there are other possibilities such as delays from being in an orphanage and Kimmie being Kimmie).

[Stormy]

10 hours ago, alexandracabot said:

Oh my God, she doesn't let them talk to each other when she's not in the room? Those poor, poor children. 

It's not even a recent development, since she mentioned monitoring Sissy's interactions with one of her sisters (Jie Jie, I believe) immediately after adopting her, which was around five years ago. So that's five years of constrained communication. I'd understand the preventative measure against "bullying" -- or perhaps even overt abuse between siblings -- if it were only a temporary situation that, combined with therapy, would gradually cease until harmony in the house was achieved. If one feels the need to enforce that indefinitely, then there's a larger problem that might prompt a normal person to decide not to adopt two more children.
 

2 hours ago, elliha said:

Kimmie's comment is the scariest I have read from her. No free time. What kind of life is that?

I'm holding out hope that Kimi's overestimating her abilities to "manage" her household, and that her girls are able to find creative ways to amuse themselves under her nose. If Kimi's truly having to dedicate so much time to running her businesses, "sorting her mail", or dealing with the hours-long tantrums she claims her girls have, there's no way she can keep tabs on everyone and everything. I'm sure her obsessive blogging sessions provide ample time for the girls to sneak off and microwave a burrito.

[Mirla]

Regarding K's response to the Avery post...

1.  I am of the opinion that everyone is "driven by their emotions and own self-interest."  Even people who act "selflessly," are doing it due to their own emotions and self interest.  They are doing it because it feels good, or because they will look good to their god or friends or society or authorities.  The only difference is, their drives are masked by self control deemed appropriate by the person judging them.  K doesn't like the mask her daughter is wearing, but I'm pretty sure her daughter doesn't like K's mask either.  

2.  "Asking for forbidden things... demonstrates strong defiance and disregard for rules and authority?"  Who doesn't do this?  Hubby asked for a Pepsi when he was offered ice chips after a recent surgery, and I wouldn't call him defiant.  And the example she's talking about was Avery asking for things that Avery probably normally has, but can't have at the treatment center.  It is normal to ask for comforts from home, even if you know you can't have them.

3.  We have a "No bullying/hurtful words" rule in our house, and encourage my kids to use the anti-bullying techniques they learned in school if they feel bullied.  It would never occur to me to forbid them from talking to each other, because that makes no sense.

4.  My kids have a hard time figuring out what to do with their time as well.  I give them a rather long list of suggested "free time" activities (many more than 2), including categories for when I give guidance (can't be a screen, must be outdoors, must be large moter, must be educational, etc.).  Plus, these are teen girls she is talking about.  They probably want to spend their free time communicating with other teen girls.  Since K won't let her teens communicate with others, it's no surprise they can't figure out what to do with free time.

[justwatching]

My girls currently have free time.  The 18 yr old just left to go help lead music for Bible School at my sister's church (she volunteered).  The 13 yr old is watching Friends and (veeeerrrryyyy sllllooooowwwwllllyyyy  ) folding laundry.  This weekend she'll be spending camping with her cousins.

Sometimes they do nothing.  Sometimes I do too.  Many times they spend their free time cracking each other up & laughing hysterically.  When the oldest is here too they spend a lot of time singing and playing guitars. These will be some of their very best memories.  Mine & their Dad's, too.

It breaks my heart that K's girls aren't allowed this freedom.

[Edhelfin]

Kimmie's awful comment on Vicky's blog entry about Avery had been removed...

[Abi]

Every time I read about Kimmie I just get so angry and upset.

Those poor, poor girls. 

[katilac]

When Avery was with us before, I made the mistake of not getting Avery the therapy she needed. I didn't know about her past abuses and how troubled she was. Now, I have multiple agencies in on the plan to help her. 

 

It's great that Avery is getting therapy now, and that the parents are even admitting they should have done it before, but so sad that it didn't happen in the first place! And I absolutely do not get it. An international adoption of an older child who has been in an institution? I would assume that therapy was needed from the get go!

You might need to wait until they have enough English to make it effective, but I don't see how you assume a child in that situation is NOT troubled, whether abuse is part of their past or not. 

[SoGladIWasCofE]

I was looking for Vicky's blog, and this FB page came up https://m.facebook.com/MomofDisruptedAdoption/

Mom's [sic] of disrupted adoption

Seems like a lot of the same sort of stuff Vicky/Kimi spout.

It's all the kid's fault for being disabled, never "I shouldn't have adopted, I can't cope with kids having issues".

[Coy Koi]

3 hours ago, SoGladIWasCofE said:

I was looking for Vicky's blog, and this FB page came up https://m.facebook.com/MomofDisruptedAdoption/

Go fuckin' fig.

[SoGladIWasCofE]

New post on fencing mama.

Wtf is with the adoption people and "warrior" parents. Adopting a disabled child isn't going to war. If you think it's similar, you shouldn't be adopting.

Why are these people adopting kids they don't seem to want?

[freejugar]

She pretty much said disabled = burden