Adoptive "Mothers" 3: Women Who Don't Deserve Mother's Day

[Mercer]

There's a lot of misinformation on the internet about RAD. Per the DSM, RAD is not a disorder that is a primary cause of violent behavior, it's a disorder of attachment patterns and ability to form healthy relationships. That doesn't mean a child with RAD can't have violent or dangerous behavior - they can, especially with multiple comorbities - but that's not what RAD is really all about.

A lot of what is described on the internet as being "RAD" sounds more like Conduct Disorder and doesn't fit with the diagnostic criteria for actual RAD. The waters get muddied further when commentators talk about the more nebulous category of "attachment disorder" which does not exist in the DSM at all and has no defined characteristics, so it can be literally whatever the commentator wants it to be.

Avery is very much at risk for RAD given her background... but that does not automatically mean she is violent and it does not automatically mean she's dangerous. I'm sure she's challenging to parent, but that doesn't mean she has to be the nightmare child who threatens the rest of the family. Given what Vicky has written about her, it doesn't sound like the primary issue was safety, it sounds like the primary issue was that Vicky was annoyed by her noncompliance and failure to fit into the family expectations - all of which should be very much expected with older child international adoption.

People with RAD may struggle lifelong with how to manage their relationships and form healthy attachments, but the parents have a part to play too. Parents of children with RAD have to change their parenting style. Rigid fundie parents tend to double down on behavior, but with RAD you have to make sure that at least 2/3 of your interactions with the child are providing nurture versus disciplining. If the parent isn't willing to change at all to meet the child in the middle, things are not going to change.

I assume this goes without saying, but farming the child out to other families and then reluctantly bringing her back again will make things worse. Sometimes children with RAD do require out-of-home placement, but shoving her out of the family entirely is not going to help her.

I don't by any means want to downplay how difficult it is for parents of children with RAD. (Or for children or adults coping with their mental health.) RAD is a very challenging disorder. But a lot of what is posted on the internet by so-called "attachment professionals" is way off base for what the disorder actually means. RAD does not automatically mean budding sociopath as the public is led to believe.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Mercer

[dianapavelovna]

8 hours ago, Mercer said:

There's a lot of misinformation on the internet about RAD. Per the DSM, RAD is not a disorder that is a primary cause of violent behavior, it's a disorder of attachment patterns and ability to form healthy relationships. That doesn't mean a child with RAD can't have violent or dangerous behavior - they can, especially with multiple comorbities - but that's not what RAD is really all about.

A lot of what is described on the internet as being "RAD" sounds more like Conduct Disorder and doesn't fit with the diagnostic criteria for actual RAD. The waters get muddied further when commentators talk about the more nebulous category of "attachment disorder" which does not exist in the DSM at all and has no defined characteristics, so it can be literally whatever the commentator wants it to be.

Avery is very much at risk for RAD given her background... but that does not automatically mean she is violent and it does not automatically mean she's dangerous. I'm sure she's challenging to parent, but that doesn't mean she has to be the nightmare child who threatens the rest of the family. Given what Vicky has written about her, it doesn't sound like the primary issue was safety, it sounds like the primary issue was that Vicky was annoyed by her noncompliance and failure to fit into the family expectations - all of which should be very much expected with older child international adoption.

People with RAD may struggle lifelong with how to manage their relationships and form healthy attachments, but the parents have a part to play too. Parents of children with RAD have to change their parenting style. Rigid fundie parents tend to double down on behavior, but with RAD you have to make sure that at least 2/3 of your interactions with the child are providing nurture versus disciplining. If the parent isn't willing to change at all to meet the child in the middle, things are not going to change.

I assume this goes without saying, but farming the child out to other families and then reluctantly bringing her back again will make things worse. Sometimes children with RAD do require out-of-home placement, but shoving her out of the family entirely is not going to help her.

I don't by any means want to downplay how difficult it is for parents of children with RAD. (Or for children or adults coping with their mental health.) RAD is a very challenging disorder. But a lot of what is posted on the internet by so-called "attachment professionals" is way off base for what the disorder actually means. RAD does not automatically mean budding sociopath as the public is led to believe.

YES.

This post should be the top search result on Google for RAD.

[DaisyD]

Who hasn't made some comment of threat in a fit of rage? Honestly, I don't have RAD in any way, shape, or form, and I've been that pissed off. So has one of my children. Vicky is just looking for an excuse.

[elliha]

 While the dog story is a little funny it is a bit concerning to know that this wasn't just Apple. For Apple not being able to understand what a (dog) penis was is not out of the box but still, if a child can learn the word "hand" and understand the concept, they can learn the terms for genitals too. As was said previously, women who have developmental issues are sensitive to predators and should be given as good of an understanding of their own bodies and everything relating to sex as is possible for them to understand. 

 

[Lurky]

I'm pretty sure every small child I know has had one of those books about bodies so they understand the differences and know how theirs works.  As above, it's super-important for preventing abuse - but I'm wondering when/how she was going to tell her teenagers. 

(I do wonder about how it works in her daycare business, which the older girls help out with - does only Kimi do nappies/toilet runs?)

[General Jinjur]

I just came across the Second Chance Adoptions Facebook page and after scrolling through way too many pictures of kids being "rehomed," I feel sick. What the hell is wrong with people? 

[alexandracabot]

On 5/15/2017 at 4:05 PM, freejugar said:

"Of course, when a male dog bellies up for the first time in front of a bunch of girls with intellectual disabilities and a five year-old, questions begin. "

This sentence just isn't right. Does she really need to bring up the disabilities aesk the time?

It's so gross how she separates them into two categories: "girls with intellectual disabilities" and "a five year old." She never thinks of the oldest 3, even Jie Jie, without labeling them and separating them from her sister. 

[dianapavelovna]

Kimi has a new post up, and it's a doozy.

http://fencingmama.blogspot.com/2017/05/my-mothers-day.html
 

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Saturday, May 20, 2017

My Mother's Day

Well, it was a memorable one. It began at 6:45am when my My Firefighter called down the hallway to my bedroom and woke me up. He was going on duty and dropping off his dog (I dog-sit when he's on duty) and when he let his dog into my backyard, he saw Sissy in her polka-dot bathrobe trying to hide behind a tree in the backyard. She was barefoot and it was a cold, windy morning.

Of course, she wouldn't obey and get in the house, but he knows the drill and got her inside and had her empty her pockets. She had the instructions and some hardware from the latest alarms I just bought that will help me track her throughout the house when she sneaks around at night. She's ripped the instructions to pieces and was going to throw them and the other hardware away in the outside trash bin.

 

Sissy is obviously pissed that she's being watched like a prisoner and takes calculated steps to halt it.

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Then, she refused to cooperate with anything for entire day. We didn't make it to church, of course, but I did try and get on with a nice Mother's Day for the sake of the other girls who really wanted the day to be special to me, so I went ahead and baked homemade blueberry muffins.

Oh selfless Kimi, who just knew how badly her daughters wanted HER to enjoy Mother's Day, so she selflessly baked some muffins. 

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We tried walking the dogs, but Sissy wouldn't cooperate and the stress and tension freaked Cara out and she wouldn't budge and kept sitting and not budging or straining against the leash no matter what I did.

So, we tried going out. On the way, we saw a junk pile (it's the yearly trash pickup of whatever people put out on the curb) with a beautiful clean baby bassinet on it and stopped to pick it up for Jie Jie's baby doll. It had all the pieces, too, but when we got home, one piece was missing. Sissy had disposed of it along the way. She wouldn't tell us if she threw it out the window or dropped it someone along the way, but she was happy to cause us distress since we couldn't put the hood on the bassinet.

How did Sissy manage to dispose of the bassinet hood without any of the four other people noticing?

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This added more stress to everything and it was time to walk the dogs again. Needless to say, Sissy wouldn't cooperate so My Firefighter had to come over and "encourage" her move. She stood by our mailbox outside (because I wouldn't let her stay alone inside the house) while we walked back and forth so we could take care of the dogs but keep an eye on her.

Kimi conspicuously doesn't say where they went "out," but it seems to have been a significant amount of time. What they were doing seems relevant in interpreting Sissy's behavior.

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If all this wasn't bad enough, she stood outside for 5 hours, meandering in a small circle, picking her skin or ripping her fingernails off, for all the neighbors to see. She refused to eat (a common tactic of hers) and refused to come in, so at 9pm I had My Firefighter come back over and "encourage" her to come in and get ready for bed. Once in her room, she raged and kicked the doors and walls so he went in and made her understand that she'd better stop and get in bed.

FOR ALL THE NEIGHBORS TO SEE. Never mind that this appears to be a young woman in serious distress, THE NEIGHBORS COULD SEE.

I've noticed a theme so far, which is that Kimi's boyfriend seems to respond to and manage Sissy's behavior much more effectively than Kimi does. This is something worth examining.

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To make matters worse, a few days later I found out that she's been leaving a window unlocked at the opposite end of our house from our bedrooms so she can sneak in and raid the kitchen or any other room, usually my office, and take, eat, destroy, whatever she wants, during the night when she sneaks out her bedroom window. It really freaks me out that she deliberately does this despite how many times I've explained how dangerous it is. It's one of the reasons I got dogs (not they turned out to alert me in any way)- I just feel so vulnerable in this huge glass house with so many entry points and a naughty adult child who leaves us open to anyone being able to come in at any time.

The first sentence is confusing, but it seems like Sissy is going in and out of different windows in the house to evade Kimi's alarms. So, pretty clever and thoughtful planning.

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The trigger was that I "talked about her." Yep, I did, to the psychologist who came over twice from the school district to evaluate her, only we were both very careful to be as respectful as possible of her feelings and we didn't single her out but included all family members equally to try and keep attention off of her specifically. I have made it clear to her that I will talk about her and that it's going to be that way for her entire life since she can't manage her own affairs and that it's to help her have as much independence as possible and that she can participate and listen to everything, but she can't understand what we say, no matter how we say it, or she just plain doesn't believe what we say, if she can understand it, so it's upsetting to her no matter what. The psychologist observed me teaching all the girls their homeschool lessons on one day and the next time he came, the girls and I were playing games. The "mistake" he made on the second day was to ask the girls what their hopes and dreams are and Sissy can't understand that. She doesn't have any hopes and dreams other than to say she wished she didn't have a special need. She's having an IEP done and will go into an Adult Transitional Program in the fall since she's technically done with her senior year of high school in another month. Of course, she doesn't want to go, but only because she can't imagine what it is and she's scared. She just doesn't get it that she's an adult now and has to move on to adult things and can't sit around coloring and playing Uno for the rest of her life when she's got the ability to do so much more.

Bolding mine. You know what I'm getting out of this entry and all the things Kimi has written about Sissy in the past? Sissy is not as impaired as Kimi claims she is, and she gets upset when she hears Kimi exaggerating and badmouthing her to others. Her only wish is that she didn't have a special need - or perhaps a manipulative, controlling mother. Maybe she finds it difficult to envision much else for herself from inside Kimi's insulated little bubble.

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There is no winning with Sissy. That's was Oppositional Defiance Disorder is. No matter what I do, it's never good enough or right or what she wants. Even if I do exactly what she says, she'll then turn around and say she didn't say that.

Oppositional Defiant Disorder is not about you, Kimi. It's not about a specific adult in a child's life. 

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Needless to say, we are all looking forward to having her in the ATP this fall so we can have peace and harmony in our home, at least for a few hours each day.

I'm looking forward to it for Sissy's sake, so she can hopefully experience more freedom and autonomy and build relationships with supportive adults.

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As the psychologist pointed out, the older she gets, the more the gap widens between where she is and where her same age peers are. He expects her to make some kind of progress, at the very least, have the ATP reinforce what I teach her and what I do with her here at home. I'm curious to see if he's right or if it's like everything else that's been tried and she just can't do it. Or, she'll perform well in the program and it won't translate to improvement at home. She truly doesn't perceive any problem. She says she isn't going to stop stealing because "she didn't decide that" even though she says she knows it's wrong to steal. When a person can't empathize and doesn't have a conscience, there's nothing to appeal to in them to help them stop hurting others. It's very scary.
 

Posted by K at 6:34 AM

 

What is "everything else that's been tried and she just can't do it?" Kimi never gave her a chance to attend public school. She gets bored during 3 hour church services, and who wouldn't, asks this heathen. She appears to enjoy and do well at experiences like the special needs gym Kimi posted about recently. If Sissy is responding to questions about stealing by saying she "didn't decide that," I'm concerned that there is an ESL issue at play.  

Nothing Kimi has posted here or earlier has convinced me that Sissy can't empathize and doesn't have a conscience. (See this story from the Atlantic for discussion and description of children who truly don't experience empathy. Incidentally, I think it is quite relevant in this thread, as a useful contrast to some things adoptive parents write about their children. And the article specifically notes that both children from traumatic backgrounds and those raised in healthy environments by biological parents display these characteristics.) I find it pretty repugnant that Kimi is claiming that. I would like to hear Sissy's side of the story. 

Also, the statement that "she truly doesn't perceive any problem" is ironically hilarious. She may not be verbalizing it, but she perceives it.

Edited May 20, 2017 by dianapavelovna

[Stormy]

After shutting myself away in an Olive Garden bathroom to read the entirety of Kimi's latest post...just wow. I wouldn't be surprised if Sissy makes a legit escape attempt (aside from just foiling Kimi's spy plots). Special needs or not, that house can't be a happy place.

In the case of "not", however... How legal are Kimi's actions? There surely would be some special clearance if Sissy is, indeed, a dependent adult who'd need her affairs handled for her; but if it's true that her issues are exaggerated or outright fabricated, then Kimi's essentially holding an adult hostage.

[anachronistic]

Sissy and Kimi would both be much better off with Kimi in a group home or adult foster care. Kimi has obviously never heard of self-advocacy or supported decision making. Sissy may not have heard of self-advocacy but she is doing the very best she can with absolutely no tools given to her. She is advocating and saying that she wants to leave. She and Kimi hate each other, with damn good reasoning on Sissy's part. Sissy is 18. WTF is stopping them?

[Mirla]

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To make matters worse, a few days later I found out that she's been leaving a window unlocked at the opposite end of our house from our bedrooms so she can sneak in and raid the kitchen or any other room, usually my office, and take, eat, destroy, whatever she wants, during the night when she sneaks out her bedroom window. It really freaks me out that she deliberately does this despite how many times I've explained how dangerous it is. It's one of the reasons I got dogs (not they turned out to alert me in any way)- I just feel so vulnerable in this huge glass house with so many entry points and a naughty adult child who leaves us open to anyone being able to come in at any time.

The whole post bothers me, but this bothers me most.

Kimmy is either locking Sissy in her room at night, or setting alarms such that Sissy feels she can not leave her room through the door.  So, if she want to leave her room at night, Sissy is forced to leave a house window open, sneak out her bedroom window, then sneak in the other house window.

 Kimmy then implies that she got the dogs, in part, because she thought they would alert her when Sissy did this.  It sounds like she wanted the dogs to think of Sissy as an intruder.   <shudder>

Kimmy seems to be most worried about Sissy eating her food and destroying her stuff.  Guess what?  Teens often like to eat late at night when everyone else is sleeping.  If you don't want her in your office, lock the office door.  And to some degree, kids are going to destroy your stuff.  It really sounds like Sissy wants to be heard, and Kimmie isn't listening.  Unless this is much worse than we know, overreacting by setting alarms and locks is just going to make it worse.

Kimmie's second worry is someone breaking in.  I do feel for Kimmie here, but Kimmie seems oblivious to the fact that she wouldn't have that problem if Sissy felt like she could use her bedroom door to get out.

The worst part is, Kimmie doesn't seem concerned that the same teen that can't be trusted to roam the house at night, is leaving the house alone at night with no one knowing.  As a mom, that would be my number one concern, and Kimmie doesn't even mention it. If I had to choose between my daughter eating a bunch of junk food in the middle of the night and ripping up instructions, and her sneaking out of the house, I would choose keeping her in the house.  Food and instruction manuals can be replaced.  My daughter can't.

[Koala]

Her newest post is genuinely scary.  My blood ran cold when she wrote that "her firefighter" had to "encourage" Sissy to comply.

 

Something is really wrong with Kimmie.  As in, she's completely nuts.

[Jess]

4 hours ago, Stormy said:

After shutting myself away in an Olive Garden bathroom to read the entirety of Kimi's latest post...just wow. I wouldn't be surprised if Sissy makes a legit escape attempt (aside from just foiling Kimi's spy plots). Special needs or not, that house can't be a happy place.

In the case of "not", however... How legal are Kimi's actions? There surely would be some special clearance if Sissy is, indeed, a dependent adult who'd need her affairs handled for her; but if it's true that her issues are exaggerated or outright fabricated, then Kimi's essentially holding an adult hostage.

Assuming Kimi doesn't have special needs guardianship already nothing is legally stopping sissy from leaving and being homeless or going to a shelter. A shelter would likely have adult social services step in and get her a placement at a group home. If she does have guardianship then she has more control over Sissy.

[Koala]

Kimmie is trying to make Sissy look bad, but the only thing she's successfully doing is making herself look paranoid and controlling.  She basically told Sissy that she would be in charge of her forever.  How was Sissy supposed to respond to that?

I wonder if it's occurred to her that the baby bassinet that she retrieved from the trash was broken in the first place.  How the hell does she think Sissy disassembled it and disposed of a part without any of them noticing.  

Also, why would a dog alert to someone he expects to be in the house??? Unless that person doesn't usually roam freely about the house, he would think nothing of her being there.  More questions that answers with that one.

[Stormy]

45 minutes ago, anachronistic said:

Sissy and Kimi would both be much better off with Kimi in a group home or adult foster care. Kimi has obviously never heard of self-advocacy or supported decision making. Sissy may not have heard of self-advocacy but she is doing the very best she can with absolutely no tools given to her. She is advocating and saying that she wants to leave. She and Kimi hate each other, with damn good reasoning on Sissy's part. Sissy is 18. WTF is stopping them?

(I'm assuming you meant Sissy in a group home, not Kimi)

Well said; I definitely think her acting out is a cry for help. If it were truly regression due to her "special need", it'd have to be some kind of dementia or psychosis. Kimi attests that she's always been this way and that there's no hope for progress, so I don't think that's the case. A kid can't go from being your "right hand" daycare worker to needing a babysitter of her own. I recall a post where Kimi reflects on the day she met Sissy in person and recalled how she "looked disabled", only to have the orphanage employees and adoption agency staff assure her everything was fine (because they're out to screw her over, clearly). But if you go back far enough to read Kimi's account around the actual time of her traveling to China to bring Sissy home, she's candid enough about how much of a brat Sissy was (her words) that you'd think she would have mentioned all of her suspicions then.

This whole thing is just breaking my heart; I don't know who's going to advocate for these girls. I hope that adult program that Sissy's supposed to be signed up for will give her some freedom.

[alexandracabot]

Kimmy's latest post is so grim and sinister. What has she done to Sissy? What the hell does she mean by "encourage" and "made her understand"? 

Is there any more depressing than someone saying of their child, "She has no hopes and dreams"? I don't EVER hear mothers say that of their intellectually disabled children.

Edited May 21, 2017 by alexandracabot

[littlemommy]

Uhhhhhhh. I used to be in social work, specifically working with developmentally disabled adults. If one of the guardians was talking like this I would have been bringing that shit up the agency food chain. She's basically imprisoning Sissy. And I doubt that she has gone to court and gotten legal adult guardianship, because I've been pricy to that process a few times and it's a total bear. And if any of what she is saying is true, then Sissy would definitely tell the guardian ad litem in her case, or maybe even the judge, that she wanted things to be different. I don't think Kimi would want that.

This whole post gives me a bad, bad feeling.

[PennySycamore]

@dianapavelovna,  I just read that article from The Atlantic about callous children earlier this evening.  Kimi seems more like a psychopath than does Sissy.

[freejugar]

If she can understand instructions to disable alarms, and figure out ways to sneak through Windows without being detected, she doesn't have the level of impairment that Kimi says she has. I hope she gets real help at the adults program.

[DaisyD]

Here's hoping someone at the adult program talks to Sissy about her rights. Everything about that post makes my skin crawl. 

[Lurky]

7 hours ago, freejugar said:

If she can understand instructions to disable alarms, and figure out ways to sneak through Windows without being detected, she doesn't have the level of impairment that Kimi says she has. I hope she gets real help at the adults program.

Yeah, holy shit.

I, too, am completely freaked out at inverted commas around the things "My Firefighter" does to Sissy.  I am seriously scared for that poor girl, because it seems like he could do anything he wanted to her, and if that crossed boundaries, Kimi would never, ever believe her.  I really, really hope her adult programme is live-in - and has social workers who will advocate for HER needs.

[Yogi]

What does the firefighter get out of this relationship? He can't even work a full shift without Kimi calling him TWICE to come over and  deal with Sissy? 

[Koala]

It's totally inappropriate for him to be "dealing" with Sissy in any way.  The more I mull it over, the more I believe that Sissy it not in a safe environment. Kimmie is openly hostile towards her.

[JillyO]

5 hours ago, Lurky said:

Yeah, holy shit.

I, too, am completely freaked out at inverted commas around the things "My Firefighter" does to Sissy.  I am seriously scared for that poor girl, because it seems like he could do anything he wanted to her, and if that crossed boundaries, Kimi would never, ever believe her.  I really, really hope her adult programme is live-in - and has social workers who will advocate for HER needs.

Like many others, I am completely horrified by the implications of what "my firefighter" could possibly be doing to Sissy. Unfortunately, is doesn't seem that her program is live-in; Kimmie specifically mentions the rest of the family having some peace and quiet () while Sissy is gone, "at least for a few hours." I still hope there are people at this program who care about her, and will educate her about her body and her rights.

 

[Stormy]

3 hours ago, Koala said:

It's totally inappropriate for him to be "dealing" with Sissy in any way.  The more I mull it over, the more I believe that Sissy it not in a safe environment. Kimmie is openly hostile towards her.

I'm sick to my stomach thinking about it. On top of everything else, Sissy's so tiny that she doesn't stand a chance against either of them. They have total mental, emotional, and physical control over her and her sisters.

3 hours ago, Yogi said:

What does the firefighter get out of this relationship? He can't even work a full shift without Kimi calling him TWICE to come over and  deal with Sissy? 

This is what I've been wondering. Kimi doesn't have much to offer in the way of money, personality, looks (sorry), etc... They don't have that long of a history either, and all the issues with her kids have been consistent for the duration of their relationship. Maybe the firefighter is just that lonely? If so, what's so wrong with him that he can't get a better woman?