Heritage Foundation: Marijuana Is Bad!

[JMarie]

This was in my local paper.  Proceed with caution!

http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/commentary/following-colorados-lead-on-pot-is-a-bad-idea-20170426.html

The man who would outlaw sugary sodas wants to legalize marijuana. How whack is that?

When a weekend raid by city police netted 50 pounds of marijuana, four guns, $50,000 in cash, and 100 pounds of THC-infused edibles like gummy bears, Mayor Kenney opined  that the “real solution”  is to legalize marijuana in Pennsylvania “as they did in Colorado.”

This assertion raised many eyebrows, and quite a few questions. Such as: How, exactly, does legalization fix the gummy bear problem?

Small children love them, and when THC-infused candies are floating though the city, kids can easily get their hands on them without anyone realizing they’re about to injest a drug. Yet Kenney thinks the amount of police “resources that were put into [this raid] may have been a little overkill.”

Despite claims to the contrary, pot today is a dangerous substance. That’s why it is classified as a Schedule I controlled drug along with heroin, LSD, and ecstasy. It is not alcohol.

(snip)

[onekidanddone]

I met a man on my last train trip who was from Oregon.  He was talking how great it was to live there.  No sales tax, but the state took in eleventy billionty in  Marijuana tax dollars. It was a source of pride to him , or so it seemed to me. I just want to move there when I retire because I think it is beautiful. 

[Maggie Mae]

I don't even know where to start with this one. So many terrible arguments.

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Small children love them, and when THC-infused candies are floating though the city, kids can easily get their hands on them without anyone realizing they’re about to injest a drug. Yet Kenney thinks the amount of police “resources that were put into [this raid] may have been a little overkill.”

 

THC is expensive. Most people aren't going to just leave them for the kids. No one is handing out $100 candy bars on halloween. 

 

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Despite claims to the contrary, pot today is a dangerous substance. That’s why it is classified as a Schedule I controlled drug along with heroin, LSD, and ecstasy. It is not alcohol.

 

It's classified as a Schedule 1 drug because of politics. Also, when it was first placed there, it's because cannabis was mostly used by minorities and this helped Nixon and his people keep a close eye on those "colored folks" and "spics." There's also the fact that it's been subject to decades of SCARY PROPAGANDA like Reefer Madness and at some point a senator claimed that the students in California who smoked it turned into zombies. Not even joking. 

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Alcohol can be abused, but for most people, it is not addictive and is not consumed to the point of intoxication. 

 

Maybe not "most" but it's pretty addictive.  Who are these people who are drinking but not getting a buzz or any sort of dopamine increase? What is the point of wasting calories like that? 

 

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None of that is true with marijuana, which today is many times stronger that what it was in the 1960s. Numerous medical studies have shown that it is far more likely to cause addiction, has no healthful properties, and in fact is deleterious to health. Long-term use has been shown to impair the immune system and cause short-term memory loss; its toxic properties can result in birth defects, pain, respiratory systems damage, brain damage, and stroke.

 

Is he going to actually cite these studies? 

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It is especially dangerous to the brain development of young people. It causes cognitive degradation and is associated with lower test scores and lower educational attainment. A study published by Lancet, a British health research journal, found that teens who smoke marijuana are 60 percent less likely to graduate from college and seven times more likely to attempt suicide. Gummy bears anyone?

 

This is actually true. Which is why, in my state (where we voted in recreational usage based on Colorado's laws, even though it was already mostly legal) it's ILLEGAL to use, possess, or sell to anyone under 21. 

 

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And is following Colorado’s lead really such a good idea?  Marijuana-related traffic fatalities in Colorado have gone up 100 percent since it was legalized, despite the fact that the overall traffic fatality rate in Colorado has gone down since 2007.

 

Were they tracking it before? It's one of the issues - there's no good field test for marijuana like there is for alcohol. Or at least there wasn't. I don't use cannabis and drive or drink and drive so I'm not current on my laws regarding that. I do know that a drunken, drugged up teenager straight out of rehab threw a party, drove intoxicated, killed a person I knew, admitted to using alcohol and marijuana and driving, but blamed it on the flip flop. She got less than a year which she was allowed to postpone to fit her life. Rich bratty girls on drugs are worth more than husbands, fathers, friends, community members, coworkers on a bike. We don't have a cannabis problem, we have a justice system problem. 

 

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Unlike soda or alcohol, marijuana is also a gateway drug. This means that marijuana legalization, which leads to increased use of marijuana, will also lead to increased use of even harder drugs, which often leads users into a life of crime.

 

Ah, the ole "gateway drug." Or maybe drug use has more to do with environmental and personal reasons. There is no one reason that someone uses cannabis.  

 

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The same Colorado study found that 48.4 percent of Denver adults arrested in 2013 tested positive for marijuana. Talk to any prosecutor, judge, police officer, or probation officer involved in the criminal justice system, and they will tell you that the vast majority of violent criminal defendants they see test positive for illegal drugs, including marijuana.

 

The test for cannabis tests for any use of cannabis over a longer period of time, vs the test for alcohol which has a 24-48 hour max period. (I'm sort of guessing on my time periods. But I know that they can't test for marijuana like they can for alcohol. Hair test can show marijuana use over a month or a lifetime; alcohol they use blood which it doesn't stay in forever. 

 

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Marijuana trafficking is also linked to crimes ranging from assault and murder to money laundering and smuggling. Legalizing it isn’t going to prevent that. Addicts who can’t afford it will continue to commit crimes in order to feed their habits. Black marketers will continue smuggling to avoid paying prohibitive licensing fees and taxes. And the crimes committed by those intoxicated on legal marijuana will continue and likely increase as the number of users goes up – as has happened in Colorado.

 

Please tell me the name of the person who murdered for an ounce of cannabis. 

 

[PennySycamore]

The legislature of the state of Vermont just voted to legalize weed.  It's uncertain whether the governor will sign though.  If he signs, this will be the first time that legalization came about through the action of the legislature and not from a ballot initiative.

[47of74]

Ah the Heritage Foundation.  Modern day Puritans, complete with "the dread fear that someone, somewhere, is happy."

4 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

I met a man on my last train trip who was from Oregon.  He was talking how great it was to live there.  No sales tax, but the state took in eleventy billionty in  Marijuana tax dollars. It was a source of pride to him , or so it seemed to me. I just want to move there when I retire because I think it is beautiful. 

Yeah Oregon seemed to be such a nice place.  I was up in the NW corner of the state for a day in 2015

I've looked into applying for admission there after school is done.  They're doing the UBE there so they'd be an option if I took the UBE here in Iowa or Minnesota.

[LadyCrow1313]

Whenever I see the name of this thread, I think of Mr. Mackey from South Park:

"Mara-ju-awna is bad, mmmkay." 

ps: I think it should be legalized.

 

[onekidanddone]

9 hours ago, 47of74 said:

I've looked into applying for admission there after school is done.  They're doing the UBE there so they'd be an option if I took the UBE here in Iowa or Minnesota.

UBE?

[47of74]

2 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

UBE?

UBE stands for Uniform Bar Exam.  About half the states use it now, including Iowa, Minnesota, and Oregon.

[Coconut Flan]

This is why all acronyms and local expressions not in the FJ dictionary should be spelled out.  Thanks!

[Jug Band Baby]

On 5/11/2017 at 4:37 PM, onekidanddone said:

I met a man on my last train trip who was from Oregon.  He was talking how great it was to live there.  No sales tax, but the state took in eleventy billionty in  Marijuana tax dollars. It was a source of pride to him , or so it seemed to me. I just want to move there when I retire because I think it is beautiful. 

I'm from Oregon.   Oregon is a beautiful place, and pot being legal is great!  But the state has some extreme problems, such as the housing crisis.  Don't more to Oregon.  Oregon doesn't want you until there's enough affordable housing for the residents already there.  Oregon's become so bigger-business-friendly that some bigger businesses are getting uncomfortable with it.  My husband's boss got heat for supporting taxing larger businesses, like their company.  There aren't a lot of jobs that pay much, which means the state isn't bringing in much income tax  That, no sales tax, moderate property tax which means nothing when so many houses haven't been reassessed in decades, means a state fucked.  I know people from Oregon who've lived in California before and are moving back to California because California is easier to get by in.

[Coconut Flan]

35 minutes ago, Jug Band Baby said:

 I know people from Oregon who've lived in California before and are moving back to California because California is easier to get by in.

Oh no.  We got rid of them fair and square and don't want them back.  I remember the whiner days as they were leaving. 

[JMarie]

I think it should be legalized in every state.  Just because someone can use it doesn't mean they're required to use it.  If you don't want to use it, then don't.  If you want to use it, you'll find it, whether it's legal or not.  Might as well let the government get some tax dollars out of it. 

[ADoyle90815]

I'm another person who thinks it should be legalized for both medical and recreational use. There are many medical benefits of marijuana, plus there are strains without the THC in it, and for either use, it doesn't have to be smoked at all to be effective. For medical purposes, it can even be made into pills.

As far as the myth about candies being given on Halloween, it's just another scare tactic since edible marijuana products are pretty expensive as it is, and for many who use it for medical reasons, it's how they get their medicine. It's treated by those the same way other medicines are, they're kept out of reach of children.

[TuringMachine]

On 5/9/2017 at 8:28 AM, JMarie said:

Despite claims to the contrary, pot today is a dangerous substance. That’s why it is classified as a Schedule I controlled drug along with heroin, LSD, and ecstasy. It is not alcohol.

This last part makes me so angry. It's a Schedule 1 drug so they could put more Mexicans in prison. Why do you think they called it marijuana? That's not it's actual name. (hint: it was to associate it with scary Mexicans) But you're right. It's not alcohol. It's no where near as dangerous, and it is less addictive. You are right in that it's like LSD, though. LSD is also no where near as dangerous as alcohol and also less addictive. 

[JMarie]

I've also never understood the "gateway drug" argument.  It's not like I go to my pot dealer, only to find out he doesn't have any available, so he offers me cocaine, which he has in stock.  Just because someone uses meth doesn't mean they'll like heroin.

[TuringMachine]

1 hour ago, JMarie said:

I've also never understood the "gateway drug" argument.  It's not like I go to my pot dealer, only to find out he doesn't have any available, so he offers me cocaine, which he has in stock.  Just because someone uses meth doesn't mean they'll like heroin.

Oh man you don't have anymore weed! I guess I'll have do heroin then. It's basically the same thing right?

Honestly I think it's kind of like Libby Anne's two boxes theory for sexual ethics. Drugs are either "good" or "bad". If it's legal it's "good" and if it's illegal it's "bad". There are no distinctions within the "bad" box, they're all just bad. Cannabis and Heroin are both just "bad", so if you're willing to do weed, why wound't you be willing to do heroin?

[ColeJo]

In my home state of Idaho, our governor vetoed the use of CBD oil for medical purposes while other Republicans passed it. A conservative think tank thought that this was ridiculous and started initiatives to get our governor to change his mind. I don't care for it, but if there are people that can truly benefit, I will stand by them. The Idaho Freedom Foundation, the think tank I was talking about, featured a young man with severe epilepsy that didn't respond to conventional pharmaceuticals. I believe he should have the right to try marijuana.

[JMarie]

https://www.amazon.com/Really-Good-Day-Microdosing-Difference/dp/0451494091/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494893613&sr=8-1&keywords=ayelet+waldman

Ayelet Waldman wrote a book about her experience using LSD medicinally.  But LSD is bad, right?

[Jug Band Baby]

On 5/12/2017 at 6:52 PM, Coconut Flan said:

Oh no.  We got rid of them fair and square and don't want them back.  I remember the whiner days as they were leaving. 

Coconut, reread what I said.  I know people FROM Oregon who moved to California, back to Oregon, then headed out again.  People born and raised in Oregon.  Native Oregonians.  Oregon's so bad off housing-wise right now that Portland's trying to get homeowners to agree to letting tiny houses be built in their backyards to be rent-free housing for a homeless family, not just no rent paid by the family, that also means no rent from the city or state, for five years in exchange for what's left of the tiny house after 5 years.

[CyborgKin]

I figure all the normal smoking bans would apply to legal marijuana, since the public don't want others' secondhand smoke whatever sort it is.  There's probably some folks out there who forget/ignore that.

[Coconut Flan]

14 hours ago, Jug Band Baby said:

Coconut, reread what I said.  I know people FROM Oregon who moved to California, back to Oregon, then headed out again.  People born and raised in Oregon.

And I said we got rid of them and don't want them back.  Fair enough?

[DarkAnts]

I am concerned with the heritage foundation insistence that alcohol is not as bad as THC. Its still a drug and people do get addicted to it. Its just as bad as THC when it comes to addiction. The only difference is one is legal in all 50 states and the other is not. It kind of shows the level of understanding when it comes to stuff like this. 

FYI THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) is the principal psychoactive part of cannabis/pot/ marijuana

[dpndetfarm]

Alcohol kills more people than all other drugs combined except maybe nicotine. It is physically addictive.  Pot is much less so. Alcohol negatively effects everyone. 

And let's look at aggression shall we? Walk into a sports bar around 11pm in Boston and yell "Red Sox suck!" Or walk into the quad at Harvard during a pot infused afternoon of hacky sack and ultimate frisbee and yell "Red Sox suck!" Or maybe "Yale rules!". One place you will get laughed at and perhaps spend a half hour discussing Yale vs Harvard and the other you will have a beer bottle broken over your head or get the +snot beat out of you. 

Alcohol leads often to aggression.  Pot does not. 

Also another reason for keeping pot illegal; studies/polls have shown that if pot is legalized alcohol consumption goes down. Can you say large corporate profits at stake. (On my phone with small child sleeping on me. Links must wait.)

[CelticGoddess]

On May 21, 2017 at 1:17 AM, DarkAnts said:

I am concerned with the heritage foundation insistence that alcohol is not as bad as THC. Its still a drug and people do get addicted to it. Its just as bad as THC when it comes to addiction. The only difference is one is legal in all 50 states and the other is not. It kind of shows the level of understanding when it comes to stuff like this. 

FYI THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) is the principal psychoactive part of cannabis/pot/ marijuana

As a nurse I have seen my fair share of people having withdrawal from alcohol.  I have sent multiple patients to the unit for DT's so they could be adequately medicated (safely) and observed.  And I have seen people die from withdrawal.  Does anyone know the last time someone died from cannabis withdrawal?  I haven't heard of any!

I have also seen far to many people who have alcohol related diseases: Cirrhosis of the liver, Wernicke's encephalopathy, liver failure with subsequent encephalopathy and esophageal varices.  (and let me tell you, when a patient dies from esophageal varicose, it is very messy).  So, yeah, don't try to claim that alcohol is not as bad as THC.

I also feel the need to point out that there are schedule II drugs that are horribly abused. (And guess what Heritage Foundation, cocaine is technically a schedule II drug  It is still used as a topical antiseptic by some MD's)  Fentanyl patches, even used, are sold illegally.  there is a huge black market trade for Dilaudid, oxy's, and even Hycodan (a cough syrup).   These "safe" drugs are abused and when they are, they are also worse than cannabis.