Elizabeth II's staff called to emergency meeting

[Palimpsest]

6 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

Can't remember which European royal family has twins. I don't think they have the same boys-over-girls thing as we do, but in that case the elder twin takes preference. That must kinda suck.

Monaco and Denmark both have twins but I think Denmarks are lower in the pecking order.  Sweden also changed the primogeniture rules in living memory - thus Crown Princess Victoria.

If you want a truly heartbreaking story of genuine star-crossed royal lovers, I give you Bertil and Lillian: http://orderofsplendor.blogspot.com/2013/03/wedding-wednesday-on-monday-princess.html

6 minutes ago, Flossie said:

The rottweiler?  Please tell me you mean Camilla, because otherwise I'll start creating scenarios with Charles and canines.

Diana famously called Camilla the Rottweiler.   Charles likes Jack Russell terriers.

@VelociRapture, just for you, 48 of Prince Phillip's greatest gaffs and funny moments.  He really did have a permanent case of foot in mouth disease:  https://uk.news.yahoo.com/48-prince-philip-apos-greatest-095546410.html

[Carm_88]

I think Emperor Charles and Empress Zita of Austria-Hungary is one of the saddest that I have heard. 

I like Prince Philip mostly because I say dumb things too. Yeah, he's been racist but good lord, he can be funny. 

[nausicaa]

@Carm_88, Yes, I have a soft spot for Empress Zita. Also, if you haven't yet, I recommend watching the footage of their wedding (it's on YouTube). It always really moves me, thinking of how they are all unknowingly on the brink of disaster, and how soon that way of life is going to be decimated by the war.

 

Also, question for our royal experts-- is a family's longevity taken into consideration when marrying into the royal family? It just seems extraordinarily lucky that both QEII and Prince Philip are still not only kicking, but are sharp and healthy. Imagine a monarch with early onset dementia?

 

[Carm_88]

2 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Also, question for our royal experts-- is a family's longevity taken into consideration when marrying into the royal family? It just seems extraordinarily lucky that both QEII and Prince Philip are still not only kicking, but are sharp and healthy. Imagine a monarch with early onset dementia?

 

I'm not sure if longevity is taken into consideration. It does remind me of George III and his porphryia. George IV was his regent for quite some time. 

And yes their wedding is absolutely heartbreaking. They really had no idea what was to come.  

[PreciousPantsofDoom]

7 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Imagine a monarch with early onset dementia?

When the news was buzzing with speculation last night I actually wondered if a dementia diagnosis was the rEason for an emergency meeting.  Couldn't figure out (beyond an actual death) why it needed to be a 3 am emergency. 

My theory now is that they were using the not terribly shocking retirement announcement of a nonagenarian as a dry run. At some point there will be an announcement of a death, which may actually warrant an emergency 3 am meeting. 

If you read the long article in the Guardian a few weeks ago, you will have seen that they have extremely detailed plans for when the Queen dies. They have regular meetings to update things and even hold practice of certain things (apparently they even practice carrying a fake coffin around so that it all looks grand and solemn when the time comes. )

 

[nausicaa]

It will be interesting to see how much longer the Queen lives. Her mother made it to 100, so she may have more than a decade more. It's crazy to think that at this point, only those over 70 have clear memories of another monarch. It's a weird uniting cultural point, from people age 65 to age 5. 

I also think about how it will be when the Dalai Lama passes. He's another one of those enduring cultural figures in an otherwise ever changing world. I just looked it up, and he became the Dalai Lama in 1940!

[Scrabblemaster]

If I ever retired at the age oft 95!!!! .... God I don't even know how to end that sentence! 

• I would either be a Borg or a vampire
• I would have a synthetical liver
• I would be my own client 
• I would be pissed if anybody did not understand my decision!

[pook]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

Snip> 

Imagine a monarch with early onset dementia?

 

Ya imagine!  I can think of a wannabe orange one.

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

Imagine a monarch with early onset dementia?

The much maligned by Americans, George III.  But that was porphyria.  

[Carm_88]

35 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

It will be interesting to see how much longer the Queen lives. Her mother made it to 100, so she may have more than a decade more. It's crazy to think that at this point, only those over 70 have clear memories of another monarch. It's a weird uniting cultural point, from people age 65 to age 5. 

My grandparents who would be in their 90's if they were alive, had 3 kings and 1 queen in their lifetimes. However, Elizabeth has been Queen for so long now, that it's hard to imagine England without her. It's hard to imagine England before her! 

[tabitha2]

Camilla will Be Queen the moment Charles becomes King. It is automatic. They can call her Whatever they want but the fact is the fact. 

To change this would require an act of government for one person for no real reason. 

[Dandruff]

5 hours ago, Scrabblemaster said:

If I ever retired at the age oft 95!!!! .... God I don't even know how to end that sentence! 

• I would either be a Borg or a vampire
• I would have a synthetical liver
• I would be my own client 
• I would be pissed if anybody did not understand my decision!

I know someone who retired at around 95, and only because she had to for medical reasons.  If someone is still working into their 90's then I think chances are they're hoping to drop dead at work.

[Glasgowghirl]

12 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

My grandparents who would be in their 90's if they were alive, had 3 kings and 1 queen in their lifetimes. However, Elizabeth has been Queen for so long now, that it's hard to imagine England without her. It's hard to imagine England before her! 

She is not the Queen of England, she is Queen of the United Kingdom.

[Carm_88]

6 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

She is not the Queen of England, she is Queen of the United Kingdom.

Um I know. She is also the Queen of the Commonwealth countries. What's your point? I don't see where I said that she was Queen of England. I mean that she is England personified. 

[PennySycamore]

Prince Philip's mother, Princess Alice of Battenberg aka Princess Andrew of Greece and Denmark, lived to be 84 and was pretty badass.  She was congenitally deaf, but learned to speak several languages, rescued Jews during WWII and so is considered one of the Righteous Among the Nations,  and started a Greek Orthodox order of nuns after the war.  Her mother was baffled by the last thing.  "What can you say about a nun who smokes and plays canasta?"

[DinglyDoll]

1 hour ago, PennySycamore said:

Prince Philip's mother, Princess Alice of Battenberg aka Princess Andrew of Greece and Denmark, lived to be 84 and was pretty badass.  She was congenitally deaf, but learned to speak several languages, rescued Jews during WWII and so is considered one of the Righteous Among the Nations,  and started a Greek Orthodox order of nuns after the war.  Her mother was baffled by the last thing.  "What can you say about a nun who smokes and plays canasta?"

I think you just introduced me to a new girl crush!

[louisa05]

On 5/4/2017 at 7:42 AM, Carm_88 said:

 

I'm not sure what Camilla's title will be. She can't be Queen or Queen Consort. Maybe Princess? I'm just not sure, there's really no guidelines around what to call her. 

I am a bit over halfway through the new bio of Charles and just finished the part about their marriage. At the announcement of their engagement, it was announced that she would become "Princess Consort" on his ascension. However, legally due to the Acts of Succession, without a vote of Commonwealth nations, she cannot be given any title other than Queen. This was immediately pointed out so the Palace got around it by saying that she will be known as Princess Consort although her official title would be Queen. This would be much the same as her current situation--legally she is the Princess of Wales, but out of deference to the memory of Diana (and likely to keep the cult of crazy Diana fans calm), she and Charles agreed on their engagement that she would use one of his lesser titles, thus she is known as the Duchess of Cornwall. They were married 12 years ago, though.  She has been more accepted since as far as I can tell, so perhaps by the time he does become King it will be less of an issue. 

 

[Flossie]

So it goes like this:  A King could marry and have a Queen, but if a Queen marries she has a Prince?  And if the ruling member of the couple dies, their spouse does not take over the role of ruler, but that Title passes to the next in line?

Monarchies (and politics) are complicated.

[louisa05]

So it goes like this:  A King could marry and have a Queen, but if a Queen marries she has a Prince?  And if the ruling member of the couple dies, their spouse does not take over the role of ruler, but that Title passes to the next in line?
Monarchies (and politics) are complicated.

The difference between a male spouse and a female spouse is leftover from patriarchy. A male consort was presumed to be a danger to the hereditary monarch maintaining her own power while a female consort was not. Prince Phillip was originally only given the English title of Duke of Edinburgh but still called Prince from his renounced Greek title. Elizabeth made him a prince of the U.K. in 1957.

[Carm_88]

2 hours ago, Flossie said:

So it goes like this:  A King could marry and have a Queen, but if a Queen marries she has a Prince? 

King outranks Queen technically, so the Queen couldn't have a consort who is ranked higher than her. So he becomes Prince Consort. It's all very old and traditional. 

[Flossie]

So, as I said, it's complicated.  It started out very patriarchal.  But I think it's evening out.

[louisa05]

6 minutes ago, Flossie said:

So, as I said, it's complicated.  It started out very patriarchal.  But I think it's evening out.

Victoria wanted to make Albert King Consort and was not allowed to do so by Parliament. There was a fear of the German prince taking over the country for nefarious purposes. 

The wife of a hereditary monarch is officially "Queen Consort" but just called Queen. So Victoria's wish of having a "King Consort" would not have created an issue of her being outranked. As for a spouse not inheriting the throne on the monarch's death--they are not in the bloodline so they cannot be a hereditary monarch. There are a number of consorts throughout history who functioned as regents for minor children in various countries, though. 

The patriarchy is fading as numerous countries with hereditary monarchies have eliminated male primogeniture. The British Commonwealth being the most recent. Princess Charlotte would now not be behind any future younger brother(s) in the line of succession as her aunt Princess Anne is. 

[nokidsmom]

On 5/4/2017 at 9:52 AM, Palimpsest said:

So Prince Phillip is retiring.  I can't blame him.  

The Queen has apparently stated that she will never abdicate and retire like all those other puny European royals.  She intends to die in harness.

Buck Palace originally said that Camilla's title will be HRH Princess Consort when (if) Charles gets the throne.  Charles is rumored to be pissed about this and already laying the ground work to making her queen, even if it takes an act of Parliament!

@Flossie, I'm old and remember Charles and his many rather steamy and unsavory romances prior to Diana.  Check out the Dale "Kanga" Tyron story.  He treated her very badly.  Charles and Camilla were part of a set of aristocratic swingers and goodness knows how much bed hopping went on.  Andrew Parker-Bowles was just as unfaithful as Camilla too. 

So I think that the Camilla and Charles star-crossed lovers separated in time and space by the evils of the throne story is bull shit.  It was great to rehabilitate their images though and they do seem a good match today.  He's a peevish, conceited, and bad tempered twit and she can cope with him.

That said, there really was the feeling at the time that Charles could only marry a pedigreed virgin.  He dated quite a few and dumped quite a few for not being pure enough, including one of Diana's sisters!  

 

I remember Prince Charles prior to his marriage and he went through quite a few girlfriends. There was a lot of hand wringing over when he was going to settle down.  And yes, the talk at the time of his marriage was that Diana because she fit all the requirements, not the least of which was virgin.   I rather shook my head not only at the age difference but that after so many more "worldly" girlfriends, he was marrying this young, inexperienced girl.   Casting no aspersions on Diana at all, she had a tough time of it and managed beautifully all things considered. 

How Prince Charles continues to be peeved about Camilla's title when he ascends the throne is silly.  As the future Defender of the Faith, he should know how it's supposed to work.   Personally, I think he should be happy that Camilla has been accepted by not only the family but the people and be happy with that.  She got a lot of shit for years over being the other woman while married to Diana. 

 

[louisa05]

9 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

I remember Prince Charles prior to his marriage and he went through quite a few girlfriends. There was a lot of hand wringing over when he was going to settle down.  And yes, the talk at the time of his marriage was that Diana because she fit all the requirements, not the least of which was virgin.   I rather shook my head not only at the age difference but that after so many more "worldly" girlfriends, he was marrying this young, inexperienced girl.   Casting no aspersions on Diana at all, she had a tough time of it and managed beautifully all things considered. 

How Prince Charles continues to be peeved about Camilla's title when he ascends the throne is silly.  As the future Defender of the Faith, he should know how it's supposed to work.   Personally, I think he should be happy that Camilla has been accepted by not only the family but the people and be happy with that.  She got a lot of shit for years over being the other woman while married to Diana. 

 

I'm finding no indication that he is peeved about it. And legally (and in regard to the Church of England), she will be Queen Consort. The idea of calling her something else is to pacify people who are still upset about Diana. 

Based on this bio and other accounts I have read in the last few years, Camilla is getting blamed for a lot that was not her doing. One thing that stood out to me in this bio was in regard to the brouhaha over Charles giving her the infamous "GF" bracelet just prior to his wedding to Diana. What Diana (in her own interest and most of what she told the press and Andrew Morton was highly calculated to be in her interests and destroy Charles) failed to mention while telling that story is that he gave sentimental gifts to 22 friends at the same time, both male and female. Diana picked out that one to be upset about because she knew they had dated when they were younger. The "Gladys and Fred" thing was also made up by Diana. All accounts from Camilla, Charles, and others connected to the two of them are that "GF" stood for "Girl Friday", meant as a comment on her personality and loyalty. 

Charles was told by Louis Mountbatten that he should have as many affairs as he liked with all kinds of women prior to marriage then marry a suitable noble and/or connected younger woman with no scandalous past (or no evidence of one). The whole "virgin requirement" was not set by the Palace or his parents. It was basically a suggestion from Mountbatten. Part of the reason was that Mountbatten was pushing hard for Charles to marry his granddaughter, Amanda Knatchbull, who was much younger than him. He actually proposed to her and she wisely refused him--she didn't love him and didn't want the royal life. Charles did not meet Diana until after Mountbatten's death and most of those who knew Mountbatten (including his daughter) told this biographer that they think he would have talked him out of that relationship. 

The other very interesting fact in this bio is that an aunt of Diana's who was a lady in waiting to the Queen Mother thought that Diana was not temperamentally suitable and was unstable and the marriage would be a disaster. No one asked her opinion, though. 

[Seahorse Wrangler]

1 hour ago, nokidsmom said:

  She got a lot of shit for years over being the other woman while married to Diana. 

 

I'm reasonably sure had Charles married Camilla in the first place and been messing around with Diana on the side, the press would have lapped it up. Charles having a younger mistress would have been a lot more appealing to the masses.