Whitney and Zach Bates - Part 3

[VelociRapture]

@feministxtian

I’m not going to judge prior generations for the reasons @VineHeart137 stated. But it’s absolutely NOT coddling to follow modern safety standards - it’s called parenting and keeping your child safe using the information you have available. You appear to have done what you felt was best for your kids based off recommendations at the time and that’s what parents today are doing as well when we talk about car seat safety or baby gates or vaccinations.

Like I’ve said, I’m not going to judge parents for something stupid like putting giant bows on their baby girls. But I will judge when it comes to safety recommendations that have been backed up by studies and science (unless the parents have a really good reason, like their child being medically unable to take vaccinations or kids who get so violently carsick that they just can’t ride rear facing as long as recommended.)

[Coconut Flan]

9 hours ago, feministxtian said:

Back in the dark ages (1982-1990) car seats were just becoming required, it was a given that the kid would be front facing at a year and out of the seat by age 3. Back then, the kids wore the hard soled Stride-Rite high tops until they were probably about 2. There was no "child-proofing" back then, other than teaching the little brat not to mess with certain things..

Your description sounds more like the 60s than the 80s.  I had kids in the 70s and 80s.  Car seats were indeed a thing in the 70s.  They were legally required where we lived until age 4 or some weight so I had one in a car seat until age 6 "way back then." In the early 80s I saw no two year old kids in white high top Stride-Rite shoes.  They were in the cute kiddie Nikes and such.   Almost no one bought the white high tops by the mid-80s even for infants at least not where we lived.  We had one child in orthopedic shoes that did only come in the white high leather version and that child was the only one around area in that style shoe. Child-proofing was around in the 70s although there was some debate whether one should child-proof the house or house-proof the child.  By the 80's I didn't know anyone who hadn't used the basics of outlet protectors and cabinet locks where chemicals were stored.  I am absolutely appalled you would think it a good object lesson to smash a child's face deliberately.  In the 80's that would have been seen as child abuse had you done it here and anyone known about it.

[JillyO]

"We did it back then and my kids are fine" is the stupidest fucking argument, and it keeps getting repeated. It's cool that your kids survived. Many others didn't. Bet their parents wish they'd had the great car seats available that we do today.

[feministxtian]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

Your description sounds more like the 60s than the 80s.  I had kids in the 70s and 80s.  Car seats were indeed a thing in the 70s.  They were legally required where we lived until age 4 or some weight so I had one in a car seat until age 6 "way back then." In the early 80s I saw no two year old kids in white high top Stride-Rite shoes.  They were in the cute kiddie Nikes and such.   Almost no one bought the white high tops by the mid-80s even for infants at least not where we lived.  We had one child in orthopedic shoes that did only come in the white high leather version and that child was the only one around area in that style shoe. Child-proofing was around in the 70s although there was some debate whether one should child-proof the house or house-proof the child.  By the 80's I didn't know anyone who hadn't used the basics of outlet protectors and cabinet locks where chemicals were stored.  I am absolutely appalled you would think it a good object lesson to smash a child's face deliberately.  In the 80's that would have been seen as child abuse had you done it here and anyone known about it.

Car seats were just getting off the ground in 1982 in Virginia. Stride Rite was in a shopping center called Warwick Center in my hometown. And, letting #1 son hit the seat in front of him was a good lesson. He didn't seem to want to cooperate when I told him to put his seat belt on in case we got into an accident. Locking up the brakes (at 10mph) taught the lesson that I could not get him to comprehend. My kids were thick when it came to certain things. Therefore, I used what I had to in order for them to understand. I'd been fighting this seatbelt battle for awhile with him. So...I backed out of the driveway on my way to take him to school and could see he was WAY too wiggly for having his seatbelt on...so...I told him again to put his seatbelt on. He claimed he had it on...I told him that I knew he didn't and was going to show him what would happen if I had to stop quickly or get in an accident if he didn't have it on, slammed on the brakes, he went forward into the middle seat and....lesson learned. Never had another problem. 

Outlet covers and cabinet locks - never used them. Took the time to teach the kid not to open the cabinet or touch whatever it was. 

You don't like it? Well...it worked. It was NOT child abuse when I stopped the car. He told his teacher at pre-school that mommy taught him what would happen if he didn't wear his seatbelt. His teacher laughed and said "good for mommy". 

Some times kids don't learn the easy way and they have to learn the hard way. 

But again, you'd probably be appalled at my kids jumping off garage roofs and climbing 6 foot fences. The kid who pulled the seatbelt stunt is a decorated war hero. 

[Carm_88]

Things are different now and that's a good thing. There needs to be safety requirements for kids because kids died due to their parents ignorance in some cases and stupidity in others. Where I live if you are caught smoking in a car with a child, you will be ticketed. When I was a kid there were still designated smoking areas; different times. Won't say my parents were abusive because they took me places where people smoked, but different times means change. 

[Coconut Flan]

25 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Car seats were just getting off the ground in 1982 in Virginia

That is NOT true.  I'd bought three car seats by the time we left Virginia in 1981!   If you didn't choose to buy a car seat then it was on you.  I bought an infant rear facing car seat in 1975 as did everyone else I knew having a baby.  

Yes, I would have loved to have had today's car seats 40  years ago, but we used what we had and they did save lives and they absolutely were recommended.  

29 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Outlet covers and cabinet locks - never used them. Took the time to teach the kid not to open the cabinet or touch whatever it was. 

Yet let your son take the outlet covers off.  

 

30 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

But again, you'd probably be appalled at my kids jumping off garage roofs and climbing 6 foot fences. The kid who pulled the seatbelt stunt is a decorated war hero. 

No, because my kids climbed trees, climbed to the roof of the house, etc, but I do object to describing the 70s and 80s as they weren't and acting like car seats weren't a thing and no one child proofed anything.  And yes, there was a Stride-Rite store in most malls back then, but they sold a lot more than white leather high tops even in infant sizes.  By the 80s the recommendation was already out that softer soled shoes were better for learning walkers. 

I'm glad your son lived to serve. Not everyone is so fortunate. 

[Fascinated]

Not sure if this is beating the proverbial dead horse but, @feministxtian, I think I understand the overall context of your post, which is, I believe, that some parents today are overprotective of their children. I would have thought that we would all agree, however, that any improvements to car seats are a good thing. I mean, that’s what ‘improvement’ means, right?  I must tell you that your tone was a little off-putting though. Referring to your children as brats and the rather cavalier way of describing burns and the like did not help your case, in my opinion.

Every generation is going to have stories to tell.  And not just about children’s safety. I hope that someday we will be aghast that motorcyclists were permitted to drive without helmets, as they currently are in Florida, for example. 

My guys were born in the eighties, too.  We had car seats and outlet covers.  However, there were fewer restrictions on them, I think.  Young children would routinely walk to, and wait for, the school bus unaccompanied by an adult.  They played baseball and hockey in the street together, sans parents.  But we certainly hovered over them more than our parents did us.  It’s almost like our parents didn’t give a shit, although I know that was not the case. We are all a product of our times.

Ok. I’m just rambling now and cannot really remember my point. 

[VelociRapture]

@feministxtianI’ve met a man who jumped off the garage roof once. He’s good friends with my uncle and has been since they were kids. He was the first person I ever met who used a wheelchair - you see, he jumped off the roof into the pool back in the 70s when he was a stupid teenager and he was paralyzed as a result. Thank God my Uncle was there to jump in and pull him out - he would have drowned otherwise.

I’m very, very glad your kids made it to adulthood ok and I am incredibly grateful for your son’s brave service (you have every right to be very proud of him!) But like so many others pointed out, not everyone made it through unharmed or alive. I’m grateful for the information we have now that will help us try to keep my daughter safe from serious harm, while still allowing her to be a kid and enjoy life. And I’m grateful that Doctors and scientists will continue making advances that will allow my daughter’s generation to try and keep their children even safer from serious harm.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

Carry on here