Whitney and Zach Bates - Part 3

[crazysnark]

It's ok. She is probably just having a bad day. I hope your day or week gets better! 

On 8/13/2017 at 11:23 PM, MarblesMom said:

Can I just say I am offended by this generalization of the American public?

What is the definition of "vets/blue collar type people", exactly?

(Why does "you people" keep screaming in my brain?)

I'm sorry you were offended. I come from from a culture where veteran and blue collar are worn with badges of honor.  

[JesusCampSongs]

On 8/13/2017 at 4:02 AM, Snarkle Motion said:

I want to be empathetic to the culture and perspective of southerners. But when discussing the issue I like to point out that this was a treasonous rebellion against America and the constitution, as well as supporting a horrific institution - the right to OWN people. In today's world, what do we call calculated acts of organized violence against our country to advance an ideological agenda? 

Not yelling at you specifically, but...

As a southerner, I am beyond done with the notion that modern fetishization of the Confederacy is somehow an intrinsic part of our culture. There are plenty of Southerners out here who are able to make it through the day without waxing nostalgic about the good ol' days when men were men, women were accessories, and black people were property. I think that the belief that romanticizing the Confederacy is a big part of Southern culture lets way too many racists off the hook-- and ignores the thoughts, feelings, and experience of black and native Southerners, who have just as much a claim to the culture as whites do. 

From my perspective: fuck slavery, fuck the Confederacy, fuck the abandonment of Reconstruction, fuck Jim Crow, and fuck anyone who thinks it's cool to glamorize what is one of the ugliest chapters of American history out of some pathetic need to feel superior and defiant. Fuck that narcissistic, pathological bullshit all the way to center of the Sun. And double fuck all the racists who think they speak for all Southerners, and triple fuck all the not-even-from the South racist Nazis who showed up in Charlottesville and committed acts of terrorism over a fucking statue. It stopped being about heritage the second every honky from here to fucking Oregon showed up with their khakis and tiki torches. Though I should probably rephrase that; this revisionist* bullshit has never been about heritage. It's always been about racism. 

 

(*Worth noting: most statues commemorating Civil War figures went up long after the war ended and were often part of campaigns intended to terrorize local black populations. Inflammatory language and phrases, such as "the war of northern aggression," were largely invented during the Jim Crow and Civil Rights eras. All of this horseshit is a direct backlash to former slaves being granted freedom and civil rights. Don't be fooled by the revisionist history of Nazis and their sympathizers.)

[crazysnark]

Southern here and never felt the confederate flag was a huge part of my heritage. I always thought that excuse was bull especially since northerners never feel the need to wave the union flag.

[JillyO]

13 hours ago, crazysnark said:

I'm sorry you were offended.

I think you meant no harm, but I still feel the need to put this here: This is not how you apologize. If you're serious about apologizing, this is what you say: "I'm sorry I offended you."

[Knight of Ni]

I remember a piece of legislation that some member of congress was suggesting about miscarriage. It would require woman who had a miscarriage to see a doctor and have it verified that they did not cause the miscarriage through their actions. Those that did would be prosecuted. 

[VelociRapture]

22 minutes ago, Knight of Ni said:

I remember a piece of legislation that some member of congress was suggesting about miscarriage. It would require woman who had a miscarriage to see a doctor and have it verified that they did not cause the miscarriage through their actions. Those that did would be prosecuted. 

On behalf of women who have suffered miscarriages, I'd like to tell these politicians the following:

FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOU!

Seriously. A miscarriage can already be one of the worst days of a woman's life and these laws do absolutely nothing other than further traumatize women and their partners.

[catlady]

i can't remember his name now, but some governor/congressman from a red state wanted pregnant women to be labelled "hosts," meaning that they lose all autonomy and personhood until their babies are born.

[formergothardite]

After this week I'm not sure how anyone who voted for Trump could say that they are still glad they voted for him unless they really are racist. I could be wrong, but I rather doubt the Bates care about him not condemning the alt-right. 

[KeshetParparNesicha]

7 hours ago, catlady said:

i can't remember his name now, but some governor/congressman from a red state wanted pregnant women to be labelled "hosts," meaning that they lose all autonomy and personhood until their babies are born.

That would be Justin Humphrey, state representative from Oklahoma. It was a comment to a reporter, not a piece of legislature, although the bill he was referring to (HB 1441) was pretty bad in and of itself. Whoever edited his Wikipedia "personal life" section deserves a medal.

[catlady]

Thank you, KPN!   I read his Wki entry just now, and his Early-Life paragraph says his host, Linda, gave birth to him in 1966.

[just_ordinary]

Oh guys, reading the (German) news, here and some other American blogs I just feel you need hugs, tissues and a shot (as in alkohol). 

I wonder if this clash can be overcome in the next 15 years or so (changing minds and hearts takes time), especially as these sentiments start to come up/ are growing in Europe too. This is not a particular American problem. It is just that the structure of your politics, laws and society makes it easier for this group right now. But they are learn how to work the system everywhere. You are not alone with your anger and fears.

I really don't like the future that seems to be building up.

Ok, now I am deeply depressed and will whale myself in some good old German Weltschmerz (there is still now translation for this mood/state of mind IIRC) and then get myself some hugs, tissues and and a shot of tequila or a huge glass of wine. 

 

 

[Melissa1977]

@just_ordinary I send you hugs and a virtual wine bottle.

I understand what you say about Europe, I have the same fears. Why all this hate again? It's like we don't really change or we cannot make the hate dissapear. Every time economy doesn't work, hate arises but not against the real guilties, but against the poor or against who want things to change.

[VelociRapture]

14 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

@just_ordinary I send you hugs and a virtual wine bottle.

I understand what you say about Europe, I have the same fears. Why all this hate again? It's like we don't really change or we cannot make the hate dissapear. Every time economy doesn't work, hate arises but not against the real guilties, but against the poor or against who want things to change.

Part of it is likely because the hate never really went away. Most people just got better at hiding it and found legal ways of hating others. Like messing with voting laws or fighting against marriage equality. 

But yes. When the economy isn't good or people are scared they tend to lash out at the easiest or most convenient target. After WW1, the Germans couldn't do anything to get back at the French (who were the ones that insisted on the harshest sanctions against the Germans following WW1) and the German leaders during the war were gone. Hitler and the Nazis capitalized on that fear in order to rise to power by blaming the Jews, who were the easiest targets since a lot of people were already prejudiced against them. People who are desperate and scared turned to a man that not all of them fully understood for guidance and the results were horrific. 

We're seeing the same thing now in the states. People who are struggling (mainly white people who are struggling) were desperately looking for someone to blame and Trump gave them a ton to pick from - Mexicans, Jews, Blacks, Muslims, feminists, liberals, immigrants, the LGBTQ community, people living with disabilities.... basically, take your pick. We're only just at the beginning and things are already terrible. We can only hope it doesn't get much worse.

(And to be clear, some people (maybe a lot if people) are just bad people. They don't need an excuse to hate others. They just do. There's no reasoning with people like that.)

[JesusCampSongs]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

Part of it is likely because the hate never really went away. Most people just got better at hiding it and found legal ways of hating others. Like messing with voting laws or fighting against marriage equality. 

But yes. When the economy isn't good or people are scared they tend to lash out at the easiest or most convenient target. 

We're seeing the same thing now in the states. People who are struggling (mainly white people who are struggling) were desperately looking for someone to blame and Trump gave them a ton to pick from - Mexicans, Jews, Blacks, Muslims, feminists, liberals, immigrants, the LGBTQ community, people living with disabilities.... basically, take your pick. We're only just at the beginning and things are already terrible. We can only hope it doesn't get much worse.

I agree, and I also think that there's a huge element of thwarted entitlement involved. Times have pretty much always been (relatively) hard for women, people of color, the LGBT+ community, disabled folks, non-Christians, etc., so you tend to see less lashing out from people in those populations because they weren't raised from birth to believe that they are entitled to elite educations, cushy jobs, hot significant others, and a nice McMansion in the suburbs with three luxury cars just for existing. The common refrain I always hear from men's rights activists and alt-righters is that they feel deprived of something they felt they had some kind of right to. 

It's not really surprising, to some extent, because when you're used to being catered to, being treated the same as everyone else feels like oppression. Cordelia Fine's work, especially Delusions of Gender, provides a great framework of looking at these issues; when male (and white) children have their physical and intellectual abilities consistently overestimated from birth and are given significant behavioral latitude throughout childhood, it's not surprising that at least some of them turn into total monsters when they hit adolescence and early adulthood and learn that they won't be sports stars or billionaires because they don't have the ability or the work ethic to do either. It gets even worse when they discover that women have free will and don't have to involve themselves with them if they don't want to. And obviously, it's a lot easier to blame immigrants and feminists than one's own deficiencies...

[Carm_88]

Filming time?  

[VBOY9977]

2 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

Filming time?  

Yep. Lawson's stories showed camera men. I can't decide if I like the bringing up Bates format where they film obviously staged trips and events, and also kinda weird/random footage like this but have 13 episode seasons, or the counting on format where they drop 6 episodes with all the important milestones an call it a day.

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

I just went to Justin Humphrey's Wikipedia page, and it was so hard not to bust out laughing in the office. A+ work. I mean, really, A+ WORK!

[Mela99]

Even SWIMMING Kaci has something in her hair......

[Melissa1977]

I wonder if the youngest Bates girls are going to rebel against modest clothing. I mean, they are around nieces and even sisters (Whit, Alyssa...) who wear normal bathsuits and pants. I know Kelly can say "my house, my rules" but I doubt she has energy enough to fight  several girls about clothing. 

I have the feeling little Bates have been less trained/beaten, comparing to the older and middle ones. Kelly has not been her real mother and she didn't even homeschool. This disconnexion and the lack of energy due to age, plus the fact 19 deliveries affect health and strengh, can make Kelly less powerful and more open to changes.

[front hugs > duggs]

@Melissa1977 I wonder the same thing- how much influence their nieces and sisters will have on their clothing in the future. However, based on one of the Instagram stories from the eclipse this week, Whitney was wearing modest swimwear around the family, which I think we've seen she doesn't wear when it's just her and Zach and their kids. I am curious about Erin and Brooklyn, however. We have never seen Erin (as far as I know at least) not in dresses or skirts.  But Brooklyn has been shown in pants and a normal bathing suit. I wonder if it's "okay" because she's just a baby, or if Erin (or I suppose Chad) will allow this as she grows, and if Erin will continue to dress modestly or not. I'm not sure I'd be able to follow the "logic" of Brooklyn wearing pants and tanks, but not Erin.

[imokit]

I actually can see the logic in Brooklyn in pants instead of Erin. If Chad and Erin aren't fussed about the pants thing but Erin like skirts and is too habituated to them to feel comfy in pants, then letting Brooklyn wear pants if she wants to while Erin stays in skirts may not be a big deal.

[Carm_88]

Gil junior cutting the grass and trying to be like his role models the Duggar girls.  

[Mayluka]

Whitney is rocking this off-the-shoulder dress. I honestly love her sense of style.

 

[JordynDarby5]

She looks really nice.

[Kangaroo]

Whitney looks great on that dress (as usual, she always seems to look great in everything!)

I am now remembering an off the shoulder maxi dress I bought a few months ago that I have been waiting to wear. It's not quite warm enough here yet, but I'm so sick of pants and jumpers I can't wait until it gets stupidly hot.

I've tried making some of my dresses more suitable for winter, but I feel like I'm dressing like a fundie. Then I end up buying something with slits or a low front or open back and feel like a rebellious fundie instead!