Seewalds 21: Walking Around Waco

[TeddyBonkers]

2 hours ago, singsingsing said:

On the flip side, my grandpa was Catholic and became Anglican to marry my grandmother, and a bunch of other Catholics told him he was going to hell. And I know plenty of conservative Catholics fully believe that Protestants are going to hell, so I guess it balances out in the end. Makes me hope there is an afterlife and they all get there, just to see their faces when they realize.

My great-grandmother sobbed through my parents wedding (I'm told) not because she was happy, but because her grandson left the Catholic Church to marry a heathen Lutheran. 

[Fascinated]

I'm enjoying the thread drift about Bin and Catholics and stuff but, to get back on topic, I would like to show you what is, in my opinion, the sexiest thing a man can wear:  

Spoiler

 

[PreciousPantsofDoom]

17 minutes ago, Fascinated said:

The sexiest thing a man can wear:  

Actually, the real sexiest thing would be the way Obama looks at Michelle. Nothing hotter than a somebody giving the Look to the person they love.  

And as far as Ben and the anti Catholic literature goes, I remember finding a book at my parents place when we were trying to weed out the bookshelves.  The book  had belonged to my Grandfather and my Dad had kept it.  It was called something like Papist Doctrine Examined. The whole thing was this ludicrous diatribe about those ebil Catholics. I read a bit of it and thought it was basically hate speech, full of inaccurate garbage.

 I was surprised to find it for a number of reasons. My Grandfather wasn't overly religious. He came from a not terribly religious Protestant family in Scotland and only intermittently attended whichever sort of Protestant church was convenient. Yet he had somehow been interested enough to aquire and keep the book.  This was a man who I had known as a gentle, tolerant man.  So yeah, surprising to find the book, and he is long gone, so I'll never know why he had it. 

I wanted to get rid of the book, but my Dad kept it. Or so he thinks.  In actual fact, I  took it from his shelves several years ago and trashed it.  It didn't surprise me quite so much that my Dad wanted to keep it.  He belongs to a semi evangelical church with some freaking stupid ideas. (I also may or may not have gone into his email and unsubscribed  him from a mailing list from a group that protests against LGBT and Trans people's rights.  )

I sort of regret trashing the book now. At the time I just wanted to make sure that such a hateful little book wouldn't ever influence any dimwitted reader.  Now I would like it as a record/reminder of the kind of divisive crap that various groups put out about each other. And, as Ben shows, are clearly still doing. 

[Shadoewolf]

Nashville Preds, the Blackhawks nemesis this year!  That's ok though. I'll give them the hottie points anyway! Toews was on my original list. Michal Kempny. Patrick Sharp. Luke Glendening and Riley Sheahan are Red Wings but we'll bypass the team affiliate for the hot factor.

And I'm typing this as I attempt to round up 15lbs of gear and locate warm socks before I take the youngest Wolfie to the hockey rink for practice. 

[fluffernutter]

OMG how could i forget Rob Lowe? That man just keeps getting better and better.

[Zola]

I was raised Lutheran by a Lutheran mother and a Catholic father, and we attended church every week without fail - you had to be vomiting or running a fever to not go. I never got a clear answer as to why Dad switched over from Catholicism to Lutheranism, other than Mom's church came with Mom. 

The churches were decorated in what I call plain not to be vain. Everything's made of wood, the stained glass windows were random shapes of color jigsawed together, never actual images of people. There would be a bare wooden cross at the altar, and a Jesus fish, also made of wood, most likely plastered to the front of the pulpit. Any splashes of color in the sanctuary were seasonal banners and whatever art projects the Sunday school classes made. It was pretty well barren. Made you remember your focus is JESUS and the GOSPEL, not mere human aesthetics. Austere. Serious. Boring.

We went to visit my dad's family when I was 12, which meant my first visit to a Catholic church and Mass, and I could not believe what I had been missing. The beauty! The art! The gold! The saints - a seemingly unceasing list of them, and statues of them as well, all with special days and designations. The holy water dabs, genuflecting, crossing yourself, the rituals! The lovely intricate rosaries.

The crucifix, and bloody, beaten, battered Jesus clearly in torment and suffering, just hanging there, waiting to die. Not a bare cross to symbolize His sacrifice, but a cross with Jesus experiencing that sacrifice right in residence on it, right in my face. I loved it.

And Mary. In the midst of all of this patriarchy, here is a woman called holy, and worthy of veneration. She had been denied to me in my Lutheran faith, and at finally being allowed to give her attention, I began to realize she may be the key to me being able to truly relate myself to Christianity in a way I previously hadn't and didn't know I could. 

By age 16 I had a bit of a collection of Mary statues and Madonna and Child images. My devoutly Lutheran grandmother was aghast at my newfound interest in Catholicism (or really, my interest in ability to relate to Mary.) "The Catholics are godless heathens that are going to Hell for worshipping false idols and graven images," she told me. [Disclaimer: not my belief, just my grandmother's paraphrased words.]

I knew it was useless to try to explain to her how wrong she had it and how it really is.

At my dad's funeral, his sister, my equally devoutly Catholic aunt, got up in front of everyone and made some speech about how my father had been raised the right way, as a Catholic, but lost his way during the years he was attending Protestant church. She hoped God would forgive him for this offense as the family still loved him and prayed for him, and of course, he had been a good Catholic before his Lutheran wife led him astray into going to a non-Catholic church (regardless of how devout he was in his new faith...which was still Christianity - the SAME EXACT GOD, yo.)

I had no idea she felt that way, but it didn't surprise me once I considered it. Grandma was the same, only Lutheran. So basically both sides of my family thought the other side was worshipping wrong and destined for Hell, and now I'm trying to figure out where the truth lies in regard to what this Christian religion really is. 

My aunt also talked to me at one point about how persecuted Catholics had been throughout history, and how they still struggle. I'm not saying that's not true, but I got two words for you, Aunt Barb, that may help give you a little perspective into just what Christian persecution really is: the Inquisition.

[No offense or insult meant to anyone, Catholic, Lutheran, or otherwise.]

[Incognito22]

7 hours ago, Jilli said:

My grandpa has a similar situation except he became Lutheran. Most of his family disowned him after they were told by a priest that now he was in purgatory.

He's very happy with my grandma, and all those people are dead.

That reminds me of the scene in "catch me if you can" where Leo Decaprio's character basically confesses that he's a fraud and puts it all out there.  She seems unphased until she learns he's not Lutheran.  It's pretty funny.

[jas]

15 hours ago, CoveredInBees said:

This message is brought to you by David Tennant in a Kilt.............. and the number 3  

You have reminded my of my favourite Scot, Danny Bhoy. That accent! Those eyes! And funny too. Sexy af. Brought to you by the (randomly selected of course) number 69.

[Coy Koi]

I was raised Catholic just because my mom didn't want to send us to scary public school, and there were Catholic schools but no Lutheran schools (which is what we were until I was about five). Of course, not everyone at Catholic schools is Catholic, but I guess she just thought it would be easier that way.

Just recently, decades later, she told me she never quite felt Catholicism was for her (which really surprised me because she'd never given any indication of that before) and started going to a Lutheran church again. A very liberal church, from the look of their website, which is weird because my mom is not liberal at all. I'm hoping this will be a good influence on her! Counteract some of that Fox News she's been poisoning herself with...

[ShadowCat]

14 hours ago, sawasdee said:

ETA Sorry for just saying 'Protestant' - but I honsstly have no idea what variety. I just know they weren't Catholic. I would guess Anglican, as my family is from the west of Ireland.

Most likely Church of Ireland, but as we call them here too ....  Protestants

[seraaa]

14 hours ago, TeddyBonkers said:

My great-grandmother sobbed through my parents wedding (I'm told) not because she was happy, but because her grandson left the Catholic Church to marry a heathen Lutheran. 

My parents had a joint Lutheran-Catholic wedding ceremony (lol), and some of the Priests they asked refused to officiate. Can't remember which denomination refused, tho. They married in her church building, which was Lutheran.

My mother did convert to Catholicism in the end so we'd all have the same religion, but both sides of my family remain spectacularly unbothered by the entire thing. At least, nobody has ever expressed to me, their child, that they had a problem. My Catholic family always did attend weekly Mass more frequently than the Lutheran side, so I suppose that makes sense.

I'm gonna grab the opportunity to share my favourite sketch on this subject: On Catholicism and Protestantism

 

[nastyhobbitses]

This thread: Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics, and the Catholics hate the Protestants, all the Hindus hate the Muslims, and everybody hates the Jews!

[samurai_sarah]

1 hour ago, nastyhobbitses said:

This thread: Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics, and the Catholics hate the Protestants, all the Hindus hate the Muslims, and everybody hates the Jews!

Except, since Vatican II the Catholics no longer need to hate anyone. Cliffnotes on what happened: There was an argument about whether people who lived before Jesus could be saved. Vatican II decided that it was possible to be saved without Jesus, since otherwise the Catholic church would have lost all of the Old Testament. So basically, it's up to their deity to make the final call.

Or as my former village priest used to say "...and even if you're an atheist, God will save your sorry soul as long as you're a decent human being, you wicked sinner".

Doesn't mean the old animosities are gone though. They are deeply, deeply ingrained.

But, I am personally convinced that Bin-Bob will try to argue doctrine, over trying to understand what is really going on. I'd recommend a course in history to him, with additional social history, plus geography and politics.

P.S.: Sorry, I had to nitpick.

[BlessaYourHeart]

2 hours ago, seraaa said:

My parents had a joint Lutheran-Catholic wedding ceremony (lol), and some of the Priests they asked refused to officiate. Can't remember which denomination refused, tho. They married in her church building, which was Lutheran.

My mother did convert to Catholicism in the end so we'd all have the same religion, but both sides of my family remain spectacularly unbothered by the entire thing. At least, nobody has ever expressed to me, their child, that they had a problem. My Catholic family always did attend weekly Mass more frequently than the Lutheran side, so I suppose that makes sense.

I'm gonna grab the opportunity to share my favourite sketch on this subject: On Catholicism and Protestantism

 

This is my all time favourite!! Simply because I was raised in a fairly strict Church of Ireland (Anglican) home and I was that one Protestant kid at a Catholic Mass that didn't get the Lord's Prayer memo and continued with 'for thine is the kingdom' until I realised no one else was doing it. Most embarrassing moment of my 21 years on earth 

[Carm_88]

We haven't had any problems in my family with someone marrying someone who is protestant, you love who you love. Although, my Dad is still a strict believer of not taking communion in a protestant church, that too has gone out. Old habits are hard to break. 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, samurai_sarah said:

Except, since Vatican II the Catholics no longer need to hate anyone. Cliffnotes on what happened: There was an argument about whether people who lived before Jesus could be saved. Vatican II decided that it was possible to be saved without Jesus, since otherwise the Catholic church would have lost all of the Old Testament. So basically, it's up to their deity to make the final call.

Or as my former village priest used to say "...and even if you're an atheist, God will save your sorry soul as long as you're a decent human being, you wicked sinner".

Doesn't mean the old animosities are gone though. They are deeply, deeply ingrained.

But, I am personally convinced that Bin-Bob will try to argue doctrine, over trying to understand what is really going on. I'd recommend a course in history to him, with additional social history, plus geography and politics.

P.S.: Sorry, I had to nitpick.

See, I knew nothing about that. Or about their changed stance on suicide from decades ago. FJ posters taught me both. Thank you FJ!

If you have time, what other things did Vatican II clarify? And what does Vatican II refer to? Was it a gathering of some sort where they clarified doctrine?

(Raised Catholic, felt pressured to be confirmed, have since lapsed, and honestly never paid attention during CCD - so I'm pretty much the Catholic version of Jon Snow, who knows nothing.)

[choralcrusader8613]

10 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

And what does Vatican II refer to? Was it a gathering of some sort where they clarified doctrine?

Vatican II is short for the Second Vatican Council. It was an ecumenical council in the early 60s which changed a lot of how Mass is celebrated, as well as "officially Catholic" answers to doctrinal questions.

Here's a wiki about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Vatican_Council. Warning that it is long as hell.

[Smash!]

Why wasn't Dierks Bentley mentioned?

Spoiler

Miranda Lambert is my girl crush

Spoiler

 

 

[Carm_88]

Quoting Jim Boob, ick! 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

3 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Quoting Jim Boob, ick! 

JB isn't his father, and those pictures are adorable. It is photos like these that give me hope for Ben & Jessa, being silly and horsing around with your kids is NORMAL and good for parents and kids.  I do hope they realize before it is too late that having too many children negatively effects the children. 

[Carm_88]

3 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

JB isn't his father, and those pictures are adorable. It is photos like these that give me hope for Ben & Jessa, being silly and horsing around with your kids is NORMAL and good for parents and kids.  I do hope they realize before it is too late that having too many children negatively effects the children. 

JB is Jessa's father and I assume that's who she is quoting because she said "As my father would say..." But yes it's good that they are raising Spurgeon, so far, differently than what JB and Michelle did. 

[twinmama]

Those pics are so sweet. My husband LOVES wrestling with our boys. Good for Ben enjoying his children a bit.

[nst]

22 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

JB is Jessa's father and I assume that's who she is quoting because she said "As my father would say..." But yes it's good that they are raising Spurgeon, so far, differently than what JB and Michelle did. 

that and she is just showing the brand of a new generation.  

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

30 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

JB is Jessa's father and I assume that's who she is quoting because she said "As my father would say..." But yes it's good that they are raising Spurgeon, so far, differently than what JB and Michelle did. 

Oh, I saw that as being from Ben's insta account, gotcha! 

[Four is Enough]

The mixed marriage bit (VERY funny, BTW) reminded me of when I went to visit a friend's family when I was in nursing school. They were Lutheran. Of course this Catholic girl went up the aisle, GENUFLECTED, and then got into the pew. Oops. Outed myself. I tried very hard to not misbehave any more, but of course was tripped up by the Lord's Prayer. She stayed friends with me, so I guess it wasn't too embarassing for her!